They thought derbies were the silver bullet for big crowds and success. That you could plonk two teams from the same city in the same stadium and the fans would turn up in droves. They didnt fathom that they were diluting and devaluing the derby concept. Perhaps if they looked abroad they would realise that most of the worlds biggest derbies are played between two club cities;Rangers Celtic, Milan Inter, Everton Liverpool etc.

I think both WU and Macarthur have failed to connect, but I do think the Bulls are actually in a worse position as they have been playing in their preferred stadium in their target market since day 1.

WU have potential to do better when they do start playing matches in Tarneit, even if it’s just at the mini stadium for the short to medium term. They just have to stop scoring so many own goals in the way they go about things, with this constant talk of the stadium is coming and then silence, it just leaves people feeling like something doesn’t add up. Trust is important of you want people to invest their money and time into supporting a club.

So yes, the Bulls in my view may actually be in a worse position given that they should have been in a stronger place to engage and bring the local target market straight away. 

Further to that, City have also failed to find their feet in terms of support. Still have far too much of an identity crisis about about what/where they represent.

Starting out as a club for all did them no favours as Heart, especially when Victory already held that position. Now they have pivoted to a base in the South East, but unless they start playing games out there, I don’t really see that bringing many benefits in terms of building attendances through engagement. 

The unfortunate thing for the Bulls is that up until this season they have operated only under covid restrictions and their target market was the area in Sydney that had the most restrictions because of large covid outbreaks early on in the pandemic.  Because of this they lost the opportunity to reap fans from the initial burst of interest in the club.

As I have said previously the club was always going to be a slow build just like Heart because first Sydney then Wanderers had captured all the easy pickings.  Long term I expect them to develop a fan base of similar size to the Mariners and the Jets and they will do that by working the 20,000 new residents that are moving in to the region each year and by working the 6%+ annual growth of registered players that in the main is the result of new junior clubs being started in the new suburbs in Camden and Liverpool LGAs.

They got booted cos FFA couldn't afford to fund them and Roar at the same time.  TV deal demanded they pick Roar.

Are you having a dig at the salary cap for players signing for MB and WU?

You do realise that WU would be among the highest spenders in the league. And MacArthur not far behind. 
They also got an exemption of extra 3-400k in first few years in the salary cap. 

Don't worry. Players are ok playing in front of small crowds. They are getting higher wages than many other clubs are willing to pay them. 
They are not going to WU because of the salary cap. They are going their because they get paid more. Some ridiculously more. 

are you saying the salary cap is a good thing if so i dont know how to help you 

It sux because we really need to get up to 16 teams in the first div before pro-rel is viable

Dave was obsessed with Sydney and Melbourne and derbies being the tonic for everything. All we really need from Macarthur and Urban Sprawl FC is survival. There's a pretty straight forward expansion path open now with Canberra and the Gong probably the best candidates.

Need Pro/Rel in order to find out what size league is viable.

Good point.

I'm infuriated by Gallop, because the Stamoulis/Belteky bid for a Tassie AL team was the best the league had had. In Gallop's infinite stupidity and his sycophancy to Fox ( who've now deserted football) they refused the Tassie bid.

In A L practice games we've drawn 7 - 8000 spectators.

Now it looks like an AFL team will be placed here and the Jack Jumpers have got a National Basketball League franchise.

For any Sydney or Victorian teams to be drawing crowds of 3 - 4000, whilst we were knocked back, is infuriating. Gallop was so Sydneycentric in his FFA tenure. 

Fair comment, Roosty.

This is the funniest post ever. How many NSL clubs can afford to play in the AL? We have been over this time and again in the expansion thread. NSL bitters love the romance of former NSL clubs being involved, they have no concept of reality.

I saw a few calls over the weekend on Sokkah Twitter for Wollongong to be included. They have no money. Western United bid 4 times more than what Wollongong offered.

It is rumoured that only 6 teams (so far) have put in a bid for the NSD.  Read my lips: S-I-X. Were is the shortfall coming from?


What is the difference between Western United and Macarthur? The only tangible thing is that Macarthur has a home ground. Western United do not. But I would have thought that puts Western United in a better position as the fan base should improve once their nomadic existence ends.

I also wanna add that while crowds are terrible and we are rightly appalled at the numbers Western United and Macarthur are pulling, crowds are not the only KPI. For example, both of these teams are building state of the art training academies. I compare that to my own team who are yet to find a site for their academy after 18 years, and Brisbane Roar, who last week announced major cuts to theirs.  

I can't see why it is perceived as funny?

Some old NSL clubs might have enough backing, like South Melb.

Neither Grazor or I are Bitters either.

"Might" being the operative word. As i said, only 6 NPL clubs have so far applied for the NSD, but people think former NSL clubs would survive and thrive in the AL. To me its hilarious anyone would believe this.

Sth Melbourne in AL would provide more than just 3,000 paying spectators for home games at least

FTB, it seems your bitter coming from the opposite perspective.....
Rumours about 6 , one poster mentioned this some weeks ago and its probably around other SM.
Nothing is out officially so no one can claim anything hot of the press that is legit but you bring it up, a rumour your doing the same and belittling the level below.
Some of those Clubs may still be holding back to commit being the NSD has dragged the chain to date for nothing concrete has yet to be brought out but proposals/discussions.
Who in their right mind commits without a proposal officially set that it seems still up in the air.
TBH you should be in hope this gets up and running for the bigger picture of our game, that whats its more about.

https://twitter.com/GCBulletin/status/1584288557891342336

Your right, even Aleague clubs cant "thrive" in the Aleague how are these scummy, effnik, pumpkin seed eating degenerates ever going to manage eh?

We did it 20 years ago with rabidly hostile media coverage, no buy in from "mainstream" Australia and the stigma of soccer being a game for "sheilas, wogs and pooftas" I dont see why we couldn't now? We "almost' get that in the NPL, surely the national exposure of NSD or Aleague would bring more fans?   Certainly more than the current "Champs" bring to the table....

Don't tell the franchisees mate, they may start pulling their investments if they have to start caring about the sport.

With all due respect I think you really misunderstand how football works.
And I will use SMFC as the example, as people like to lay boots in so much.
Currently SMFC plays in NPL1 in Victoria.
A competition for all intent purposes is a suburban league.
In any suburban competition there are ceilings, in terms of investment and interest. A fact of life, though Preston Lions is bucking the trend with weekly crowds of 2,000-3,000 in NPL3.
NPL also has further restrictions, having read the Licence agreements, the premise is that NPL Clubs should be developing "talent". Now that AL teams have Academies with preferential treatment that objective is not such a priority. And Clubs have quickly gone back to what there purpose is, to serve their members ambitions, and in most cases that means either winning trophies or not getting relegated.
SMFC just announced a yearly $200K sponsorship with CF Capital, a sponsorship even AL Teams would be interested in. And they have a sponsorship portfolio of over $1Mill.

And all this in a Suburban competition.

What is evidenced in Football, here and the world over, is the higher division a club plays in the more revenues come into that club, be it Sponsors, Memberships, Attendances, Media Revenues and exposure, gate sales, corporate hospitality, signage, pourage and catering.

To say any Club currently in NPL will look the same at a financial level, if they went to a NSD or AL next year is at the very least facicious.
Also lacking in the nuances of the Club Licensing system, that requires the prerequisite infrastructure and capital guarantees to participate at a higher division.

In my view the most important and key issue or the game here is the growing of more and better Clubs. What is better for this nations football, 12 pro clubs or 24 or 36?
Expansion of the AL to 16 teams isn't going to do it.
And how do you help more Clubs to get to higher levels?
One way is a National platform, which we have in the AL, a NSD would be another way to increase the quality of Clubs, a domestic transfer system that rewards clubs for developing players, promotion and relegation through the tiers based on Club Licensing encouraging more investment wether AL NSD NPL1 to NPL3 and below.
This how we get there and this will take time.

only need 4 to get to 16

Your point seems to be if only SMFC and Preston were in the top tier, the money and support would just roll in.  Fact is both SMFC and Preston *were* in the top tier national league.  That league went broke. 

Since 2005 over $1 billion dollars in TV deals and sponsorships has been spent on  10 or so pro clubs.  How much do you think would be required for 24 or 36 of them?  Where will that come from.?

That is the future.  Anything else is a pipe dream.

Before promotion is introduced I can see a canberra franchise, a 2nd bris team, maybe a hobart or geelong team (should move wu there) could plausably do significantly better than the nsl average. Probably we should reach 16 teams through some combinations of expansion and promotion before p/r is introduced

surprised we never went back to Nth Qld, that new stadium up there must not get used after NRL season. Pretty big waste.

$300 million for 13 NRL games a year. Pork barrelling at it's finest.

I probably mentioned this in another thread but playing in suitably sized stadiums is the key for these franchises/clubs to not only survive but also be successful.

The problem is that the infrastructure is not great for all sports in Oz, too many play in big stadiums to fit the needs of the commercialisation of modern sports but less emphasis of the needs of the communities and face bases that to watch.

The NRL and some extent the AFL did this 30 years ago and we saw alot of passion and colour when they play in suitable sized stadiums, for me this is the future of the a-league and probably the future when the NSD comes up and running.
Prefer 10K stadiums with an good atmosphere than 30K with little atmosphere plus will help get the costs down too.

Not bitter, just pragmatic.

Of course, I hope the NSD gets up and we have pro/rel before the decade is out. But I just can’t see the NSD being made up of NPL and former NSL teams. Like it or not, we need a mix of NPL And franchise teams. I can’t see the NSD having 10-12 teams without it.

The ACT needs to be a franchise team. Tassie needs to be a franchise team. North Queensland will likely see the return of a resurrected franchise team. Those advocating for Auckland… we’ll need another franchise team (unless Auckland City put their hand up). You can also look at Perth and the Gold Coast. Are there any NPL teams putting their hand up?