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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. yeah I think once the 2nd div starts, if any club up the top of the table is getting larger crowds than the lowest attended a league club, there really isn't a reason not to promote them. If there are 16 teams in both comps, there are hopefully enough teams to handle the unique challenges of australia to have p and r having said that, I'm open to more expansion clubs as I do think there are a few places that can get bigger crowds than the nsl average. There probably aren't any 20k clubs out there but maybe 4 places where 6-8k is possible I'm no anti pro-rel but I do think if Brisbane, CCM, WU, Macarthur etc were relegated they'd definitely fold. Would make things awkward in the NSD. if that happens, so be it. the cream rises to the top And with it commercial death. and with that, t he best players leave and its a downward spiral. Thats the best thing about it.....
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. Not a fair comparison in my opinion.... WU and MacArthur have the benefit of competing in a pro league with other clubs with vastly larger attendances, in a market place that accepts soccer as an Australian sport and one were their matches get broadcast favourably to potential fans... They should be doing 10 x times better than a failed, shoddy, tinpot league from 20 years ago no? Otherwise what was the point of the great Frank Lowy "cleanisng" of the "effniks"? Nothing? between enzo flytox (whatever multi he is) on and on living in the past...... Carrying on about 20yrs ago just doesn't add up period anymore. NSL had its issues but never let them live it down eh..piss easy target. Its was always gonna fail the so called big time into the modern era for liitle ol australia was behind the 8ball in any case. Christ you can't keep beating this old drum of crowds back then to todays world let alone the difference of circumstances, numbers of the past sync with current Bulls/WU. FFS we have grown a little in general population, general outlook regards to migrants has changed so so much obviously as well, media is at your finger tips, what a load of bollocks. In todays world what Franchise of any style business (I deal with some Franchise companies HQ and Franchisee's) can afford its own sugar daddy keep putting in to keep their investment alive by continuous DD $'s into their account, unless they from the ME in most case's talking football, hello CFG. WU IF they survive their consort has to have money on tap to keep burning, we shall see. The Bulls in such a growth area and a football pool I'll give the benefit of the doubt due to starting up upon covid hitting us BUT they should be double what they have attending right now even at the current low numbers. Something is very wrong here for no way is wanderers sucking up most of their support, let alone their management blunders ie over priced ticking, going down hard on the limited active support they had, the takeover of NBridge getting into PL1, why hasn't that SW and west region got on board some, forget talking about crowds of 20yrs ago + a non tech time and wog league - the world has moved on 1000mph since - something doesn't add up, who can afford that long for a sound supporter base and ROI, business is business. In saying the above what damage does a half baked supported Club do to the image of the league in the big picture, to some may say thats the same everywhere of low supported Clubs BUT this is Australia, we're a minnow, fighting against other codes that are way ahead commercial wise, thats what Joe Average sees and pass's judgement. What about the elephant in the room talking Sydney and WSW, the golden child and people carry on about its template of the past. Their supporter base numbers are a third to what they once were. Forgetting the RBB being rubbed out to a degree what of the other fair weathered supporters, seems they only back when winning which is typical Aussie generally as well. Leave the NSD alone you guys, no one is expecting big numbers, I'm sure the FA and the Clubs aren't going into this half cocked. Long overdue having something that creates a better pyramid and nuture the game where its needed big time getting out of the dark. What are you smoking? The EPL exists because of "sugar daddies". Your own club in the EPL is owned by several of them. Hello Fenway Sports Group. Without their half a billion USD, Liverpool was fucked.. Community clubs can survive small time. The big time requires dollars. Lots of them. From people with deep pockets. Not by selling cavapi and beers. Face it. Sugar daddies gave you 2005 WC qualifiers, gave you the 2006 and 2010 WC's where we actually won games, and he give you 60,000 to watch two "plastic" franchise. teams. They gave your Liverpool an EPL title. Now the failed NSL clubs want in to be a part of something they could never have achieved because no-one wanted to invest in them. And tell us this it will be different today? how? What works for football Australia is 1. marquee players- (strikers or attacking mids need only apply) 2. Active support 3. Successful socceroos. 4. That's it. oh what an attack - you thought about it for a while, the modern day euro/latino/chinese/merican sugar daddys are in P/R comps. Open comps nothing wrong there Plus they have full house's near on every single game, your point is moot and your smoking something.. 05/06/10 came from the backbone broke/failed nsl, guess thats a failure by you.Your other points or questions are still living in the past, move on. A NSD first and foremost for the ol Clubs, whatever develops from that in the long term we shall see, sink or swim. Nope. It came on the back of this: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/farina-quits-as-socceroo-coach-20050630-gdllnf.htmlfollowed by this: https://www.socceroos.com.au/news/hiddink-appointed-coach-socceroos-woby this guy: https://www.footballaustralia.com.au/sir-frank-lowy
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. Not a fair comparison in my opinion.... WU and MacArthur have the benefit of competing in a pro league with other clubs with vastly larger attendances, in a market place that accepts soccer as an Australian sport and one were their matches get broadcast favourably to potential fans... They should be doing 10 x times better than a failed, shoddy, tinpot league from 20 years ago no? Otherwise what was the point of the great Frank Lowy "cleanisng" of the "effniks"? Nothing? between enzo flytox (whatever multi he is) on and on living in the past...... Carrying on about 20yrs ago just doesn't add up period anymore. NSL had its issues but never let them live it down eh..piss easy target. Its was always gonna fail the so called big time into the modern era for liitle ol australia was behind the 8ball in any case. Christ you can't keep beating this old drum of crowds back then to todays world let alone the difference of circumstances, numbers of the past sync with current Bulls/WU. FFS we have grown a little in general population, general outlook regards to migrants has changed so so much obviously as well, media is at your finger tips, what a load of bollocks. In todays world what Franchise of any style business (I deal with some Franchise companies HQ and Franchisee's) can afford its own sugar daddy keep putting in to keep their investment alive by continuous DD $'s into their account, unless they from the ME in most case's talking football, hello CFG. WU IF they survive their consort has to have money on tap to keep burning, we shall see. The Bulls in such a growth area and a football pool I'll give the benefit of the doubt due to starting up upon covid hitting us BUT they should be double what they have attending right now even at the current low numbers. Something is very wrong here for no way is wanderers sucking up most of their support, let alone their management blunders ie over priced ticking, going down hard on the limited active support they had, the takeover of NBridge getting into PL1, why hasn't that SW and west region got on board some, forget talking about crowds of 20yrs ago + a non tech time and wog league - the world has moved on 1000mph since - something doesn't add up, who can afford that long for a sound supporter base and ROI, business is business. In saying the above what damage does a half baked supported Club do to the image of the league in the big picture, to some may say thats the same everywhere of low supported Clubs BUT this is Australia, we're a minnow, fighting against other codes that are way ahead commercial wise, thats what Joe Average sees and pass's judgement. What about the elephant in the room talking Sydney and WSW, the golden child and people carry on about its template of the past. Their supporter base numbers are a third to what they once were. Forgetting the RBB being rubbed out to a degree what of the other fair weathered supporters, seems they only back when winning which is typical Aussie generally as well. Leave the NSD alone you guys, no one is expecting big numbers, I'm sure the FA and the Clubs aren't going into this half cocked. Long overdue having something that creates a better pyramid and nuture the game where its needed big time getting out of the dark. What are you smoking? The EPL exists because of "sugar daddies". Your own club in the EPL is owned by several of them. Hello Fenway Sports Group. Without their half a billion USD, Liverpool was fucked.. Community clubs can survive small time. The big time requires dollars. Lots of them. From people with deep pockets. Not by selling cavapi and beers. Face it. Sugar daddies gave you 2005 WC qualifiers, gave you the 2006 and 2010 WC's where we actually won games, and he give you 60,000 to watch two "plastic" franchise. teams. They gave your Liverpool an EPL title. Now the failed NSL clubs want in to be a part of something they could never have achieved because no-one wanted to invest in them. And tell us this it will be different today? how? What works for football Australia is 1. marquee players- (strikers or attacking mids need only apply) 2. Active support 3. Successful socceroos. 4. That's it. This has to be one off, if not the dumbest posts i've seen on this forum, and there is a fair few of them. The EPL exists cause of the TV deal and global audience, not because of the sugar daddies. The sugar daddies only really hit the EPL in the last 15 or so years, these EPL & English clubs have been around since the 1800's lol. Liverpool's most successful period was in the 70s without all that. Sugar daddies made Australia qualify for WC's? haha. if you think marquee players is what makes australian football tick and is the most important, than you are what's wrong with football in this country. what a stupid post lol. LOL. Who owned BSkyB when the TV deal was struck? Who owned Chelsea in its most successful period? Who owns Man City? Who owns Man United. Who owns Liverpool? The most successful clubs in the world are owned by sugar daddies. They bring in the players that bring in the TV money and the global interest. As for the WC 2005 qualification, without Lowy, it doesn't happen. 2006 doesn't happen. Asian Confederation entry doesn't happen. 2010 doesn't happen. Same players. But none of that happens. As for the marquees , facts are facts. The most successful period of domestic football happened with quality marquees.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. yeah I think once the 2nd div starts, if any club up the top of the table is getting larger crowds than the lowest attended a league club, there really isn't a reason not to promote them. If there are 16 teams in both comps, there are hopefully enough teams to handle the unique challenges of australia to have p and r having said that, I'm open to more expansion clubs as I do think there are a few places that can get bigger crowds than the nsl average. There probably aren't any 20k clubs out there but maybe 4 places where 6-8k is possible I'm no anti pro-rel but I do think if Brisbane, CCM, WU, Macarthur etc were relegated they'd definitely fold. Would make things awkward in the NSD. if that happens, so be it. the cream rises to the top And with it commercial death. and with that, t he best players leave and its a downward spiral. Thats the best thing about it..... What? playing in front of 750 plus 2 stray dogs?
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19-SU-58
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. Not a fair comparison in my opinion.... WU and MacArthur have the benefit of competing in a pro league with other clubs with vastly larger attendances, in a market place that accepts soccer as an Australian sport and one were their matches get broadcast favourably to potential fans... They should be doing 10 x times better than a failed, shoddy, tinpot league from 20 years ago no? Otherwise what was the point of the great Frank Lowy "cleanisng" of the "effniks"? Nothing? between enzo flytox (whatever multi he is) on and on living in the past...... Carrying on about 20yrs ago just doesn't add up period anymore. NSL had its issues but never let them live it down eh..piss easy target. Its was always gonna fail the so called big time into the modern era for liitle ol australia was behind the 8ball in any case. Christ you can't keep beating this old drum of crowds back then to todays world let alone the difference of circumstances, numbers of the past sync with current Bulls/WU. FFS we have grown a little in general population, general outlook regards to migrants has changed so so much obviously as well, media is at your finger tips, what a load of bollocks. In todays world what Franchise of any style business (I deal with some Franchise companies HQ and Franchisee's) can afford its own sugar daddy keep putting in to keep their investment alive by continuous DD $'s into their account, unless they from the ME in most case's talking football, hello CFG. WU IF they survive their consort has to have money on tap to keep burning, we shall see. The Bulls in such a growth area and a football pool I'll give the benefit of the doubt due to starting up upon covid hitting us BUT they should be double what they have attending right now even at the current low numbers. Something is very wrong here for no way is wanderers sucking up most of their support, let alone their management blunders ie over priced ticking, going down hard on the limited active support they had, the takeover of NBridge getting into PL1, why hasn't that SW and west region got on board some, forget talking about crowds of 20yrs ago + a non tech time and wog league - the world has moved on 1000mph since - something doesn't add up, who can afford that long for a sound supporter base and ROI, business is business. In saying the above what damage does a half baked supported Club do to the image of the league in the big picture, to some may say thats the same everywhere of low supported Clubs BUT this is Australia, we're a minnow, fighting against other codes that are way ahead commercial wise, thats what Joe Average sees and pass's judgement. What about the elephant in the room talking Sydney and WSW, the golden child and people carry on about its template of the past. Their supporter base numbers are a third to what they once were. Forgetting the RBB being rubbed out to a degree what of the other fair weathered supporters, seems they only back when winning which is typical Aussie generally as well. Leave the NSD alone you guys, no one is expecting big numbers, I'm sure the FA and the Clubs aren't going into this half cocked. Long overdue having something that creates a better pyramid and nuture the game where its needed big time getting out of the dark. What are you smoking? The EPL exists because of "sugar daddies". Your own club in the EPL is owned by several of them. Hello Fenway Sports Group. Without their half a billion USD, Liverpool was fucked.. Community clubs can survive small time. The big time requires dollars. Lots of them. From people with deep pockets. Not by selling cavapi and beers. Face it. Sugar daddies gave you 2005 WC qualifiers, gave you the 2006 and 2010 WC's where we actually won games, and he give you 60,000 to watch two "plastic" franchise. teams. They gave your Liverpool an EPL title. Now the failed NSL clubs want in to be a part of something they could never have achieved because no-one wanted to invest in them. And tell us this it will be different today? how? What works for football Australia is 1. marquee players- (strikers or attacking mids need only apply) 2. Active support 3. Successful socceroos. 4. That's it. This has to be one off, if not the dumbest posts i've seen on this forum, and there is a fair few of them. The EPL exists cause of the TV deal and global audience, not because of the sugar daddies. The sugar daddies only really hit the EPL in the last 15 or so years, these EPL & English clubs have been around since the 1800's lol. Liverpool's most successful period was in the 70s without all that. Sugar daddies made Australia qualify for WC's? haha. if you think marquee players is what makes australian football tick and is the most important, than you are what's wrong with football in this country. what a stupid post lol. LOL. Who owned BSkyB when the TV deal was struck? Who owned Chelsea in its most successful period? Who owns Man City? Who owns Man United. Who owns Liverpool? The most successful clubs in the world are owned by sugar daddies. They bring in the players that bring in the TV money and the global interest. As for the WC 2005 qualification, without Lowy, it doesn't happen. 2006 doesn't happen. Asian Confederation entry doesn't happen. 2010 doesn't happen. Same players. But none of that happens. As for the marquees , facts are facts. The most successful period of domestic football happened with quality marquees. your statement wasnt about the success of clubs during the sugar daddy period, but the existence of the EPL without the sugar daddies... you dont need to tell me about who owns who in the modern day era, but to suggest a league or clubs wouldnt exist without sugar daddies it's stupid when these clubs have been around since late 1800's. The only difference now is the massive divide its created between the clubs. so your saying beating Uruguay in 2005 was Lowy's work? *Facepalm* The only difference he has made is going to Asia for an 'easier' passage to the world cup, and now that WC's have expanded to 48 teams, everyone get's a participation award. What do you determine success by, bums on seats? strong youth set-up? strong national team? Maybe those marquees can all become Australian Citizens and play for the national team..... oh wait.
Not a Phase, Not a Trend, SYDNEY UNITED till the END!
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19-SU-58
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Group: Banned Members
Posts: 2.5K,
Visits: 0
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 Fix the A-league first they say... you dont need to be a genius to figure out where WU & Macarthur would land on that table
Not a Phase, Not a Trend, SYDNEY UNITED till the END!
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. Not a fair comparison in my opinion.... WU and MacArthur have the benefit of competing in a pro league with other clubs with vastly larger attendances, in a market place that accepts soccer as an Australian sport and one were their matches get broadcast favourably to potential fans... They should be doing 10 x times better than a failed, shoddy, tinpot league from 20 years ago no? Otherwise what was the point of the great Frank Lowy "cleanisng" of the "effniks"? Nothing? between enzo flytox (whatever multi he is) on and on living in the past...... Carrying on about 20yrs ago just doesn't add up period anymore. NSL had its issues but never let them live it down eh..piss easy target. Its was always gonna fail the so called big time into the modern era for liitle ol australia was behind the 8ball in any case. Christ you can't keep beating this old drum of crowds back then to todays world let alone the difference of circumstances, numbers of the past sync with current Bulls/WU. FFS we have grown a little in general population, general outlook regards to migrants has changed so so much obviously as well, media is at your finger tips, what a load of bollocks. In todays world what Franchise of any style business (I deal with some Franchise companies HQ and Franchisee's) can afford its own sugar daddy keep putting in to keep their investment alive by continuous DD $'s into their account, unless they from the ME in most case's talking football, hello CFG. WU IF they survive their consort has to have money on tap to keep burning, we shall see. The Bulls in such a growth area and a football pool I'll give the benefit of the doubt due to starting up upon covid hitting us BUT they should be double what they have attending right now even at the current low numbers. Something is very wrong here for no way is wanderers sucking up most of their support, let alone their management blunders ie over priced ticking, going down hard on the limited active support they had, the takeover of NBridge getting into PL1, why hasn't that SW and west region got on board some, forget talking about crowds of 20yrs ago + a non tech time and wog league - the world has moved on 1000mph since - something doesn't add up, who can afford that long for a sound supporter base and ROI, business is business. In saying the above what damage does a half baked supported Club do to the image of the league in the big picture, to some may say thats the same everywhere of low supported Clubs BUT this is Australia, we're a minnow, fighting against other codes that are way ahead commercial wise, thats what Joe Average sees and pass's judgement. What about the elephant in the room talking Sydney and WSW, the golden child and people carry on about its template of the past. Their supporter base numbers are a third to what they once were. Forgetting the RBB being rubbed out to a degree what of the other fair weathered supporters, seems they only back when winning which is typical Aussie generally as well. Leave the NSD alone you guys, no one is expecting big numbers, I'm sure the FA and the Clubs aren't going into this half cocked. Long overdue having something that creates a better pyramid and nuture the game where its needed big time getting out of the dark. What are you smoking? The EPL exists because of "sugar daddies". Your own club in the EPL is owned by several of them. Hello Fenway Sports Group. Without their half a billion USD, Liverpool was fucked.. Community clubs can survive small time. The big time requires dollars. Lots of them. From people with deep pockets. Not by selling cavapi and beers. Face it. Sugar daddies gave you 2005 WC qualifiers, gave you the 2006 and 2010 WC's where we actually won games, and he give you 60,000 to watch two "plastic" franchise. teams. They gave your Liverpool an EPL title. Now the failed NSL clubs want in to be a part of something they could never have achieved because no-one wanted to invest in them. And tell us this it will be different today? how? What works for football Australia is 1. marquee players- (strikers or attacking mids need only apply) 2. Active support 3. Successful socceroos. 4. That's it. This has to be one off, if not the dumbest posts i've seen on this forum, and there is a fair few of them. The EPL exists cause of the TV deal and global audience, not because of the sugar daddies. The sugar daddies only really hit the EPL in the last 15 or so years, these EPL & English clubs have been around since the 1800's lol. Liverpool's most successful period was in the 70s without all that. Sugar daddies made Australia qualify for WC's? haha. if you think marquee players is what makes australian football tick and is the most important, than you are what's wrong with football in this country. what a stupid post lol. LOL. Who owned BSkyB when the TV deal was struck? Who owned Chelsea in its most successful period? Who owns Man City? Who owns Man United. Who owns Liverpool? The most successful clubs in the world are owned by sugar daddies. They bring in the players that bring in the TV money and the global interest. As for the WC 2005 qualification, without Lowy, it doesn't happen. 2006 doesn't happen. Asian Confederation entry doesn't happen. 2010 doesn't happen. Same players. But none of that happens. As for the marquees , facts are facts. The most successful period of domestic football happened with quality marquees. your statement wasnt about the success of clubs during the sugar daddy period, but the existence of the EPL without the sugar daddies... you dont need to tell me about who owns who in the modern day era, but to suggest a league or clubs wouldnt exist without sugar daddies it's stupid when these clubs have been around since late 1800's. The only difference now is the massive divide its created between the clubs. so your saying beating Uruguay in 2005 was Lowy's work? *Facepalm* The only difference he has made is going to Asia for an 'easier' passage to the world cup, and now that WC's have expanded to 48 teams, everyone get's a participation award. What do you determine success by, bums on seats? strong youth set-up? strong national team? Maybe those marquees can all become Australian Citizens and play for the national team..... oh wait. The EPL didn't exist before Murdoch's money. The club's did but not the EPL. Do you get that? The mega TV deals and the worldwide popularity you mentioned didn't exist in the days of the old First Division. The best international names Div 1 could afford were Jan Molby and Ossie Ardiles. Haaland would not playing for Man City FFS-they wouldn't be able to afford him in Div 1. You are delusional if you think Australia would have qualified in 2005 without Lowy sacking Farina and hiring Hiddink. Not to mention the performance at WC 2006. And the benefits of playing in Asia was more than just WC qualification. As for measuring success, all 3 matter bums on seats, youth development and the Socceroos. Lowy got the bums on seats. Lowy created the National Curriuculum for developing youth, but what happened? The old soccer club coaches completely ignored it for at least the first 5 or so years, because "what could the Dutch Mafia" teach them about coaching.. Lowy set us on a path of 5 consecutive world cups. Before that: none in 32 years. The marquees are there to put bum seats, which unquestionably they did. The Nationa Curriculum is th blue print for youth development which is supposed to feed into the Socceroos. Ask the youth coaches why it hasn't. I get why you and the other Greek poster hate Lowy for creating the A-League and lets be honest deep done some of it is because he's a ...well you know why. By whatever measure, the man is a legend in Australian football.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. Not a fair comparison in my opinion.... WU and MacArthur have the benefit of competing in a pro league with other clubs with vastly larger attendances, in a market place that accepts soccer as an Australian sport and one were their matches get broadcast favourably to potential fans... They should be doing 10 x times better than a failed, shoddy, tinpot league from 20 years ago no? Otherwise what was the point of the great Frank Lowy "cleanisng" of the "effniks"? Nothing? between enzo flytox (whatever multi he is) on and on living in the past...... Carrying on about 20yrs ago just doesn't add up period anymore. NSL had its issues but never let them live it down eh..piss easy target. Its was always gonna fail the so called big time into the modern era for liitle ol australia was behind the 8ball in any case. Christ you can't keep beating this old drum of crowds back then to todays world let alone the difference of circumstances, numbers of the past sync with current Bulls/WU. FFS we have grown a little in general population, general outlook regards to migrants has changed so so much obviously as well, media is at your finger tips, what a load of bollocks. In todays world what Franchise of any style business (I deal with some Franchise companies HQ and Franchisee's) can afford its own sugar daddy keep putting in to keep their investment alive by continuous DD $'s into their account, unless they from the ME in most case's talking football, hello CFG. WU IF they survive their consort has to have money on tap to keep burning, we shall see. The Bulls in such a growth area and a football pool I'll give the benefit of the doubt due to starting up upon covid hitting us BUT they should be double what they have attending right now even at the current low numbers. Something is very wrong here for no way is wanderers sucking up most of their support, let alone their management blunders ie over priced ticking, going down hard on the limited active support they had, the takeover of NBridge getting into PL1, why hasn't that SW and west region got on board some, forget talking about crowds of 20yrs ago + a non tech time and wog league - the world has moved on 1000mph since - something doesn't add up, who can afford that long for a sound supporter base and ROI, business is business. In saying the above what damage does a half baked supported Club do to the image of the league in the big picture, to some may say thats the same everywhere of low supported Clubs BUT this is Australia, we're a minnow, fighting against other codes that are way ahead commercial wise, thats what Joe Average sees and pass's judgement. What about the elephant in the room talking Sydney and WSW, the golden child and people carry on about its template of the past. Their supporter base numbers are a third to what they once were. Forgetting the RBB being rubbed out to a degree what of the other fair weathered supporters, seems they only back when winning which is typical Aussie generally as well. Leave the NSD alone you guys, no one is expecting big numbers, I'm sure the FA and the Clubs aren't going into this half cocked. Long overdue having something that creates a better pyramid and nuture the game where its needed big time getting out of the dark. What are you smoking? The EPL exists because of "sugar daddies". Your own club in the EPL is owned by several of them. Hello Fenway Sports Group. Without their half a billion USD, Liverpool was fucked.. Community clubs can survive small time. The big time requires dollars. Lots of them. From people with deep pockets. Not by selling cavapi and beers. Face it. Sugar daddies gave you 2005 WC qualifiers, gave you the 2006 and 2010 WC's where we actually won games, and he give you 60,000 to watch two "plastic" franchise. teams. They gave your Liverpool an EPL title. Now the failed NSL clubs want in to be a part of something they could never have achieved because no-one wanted to invest in them. And tell us this it will be different today? how? What works for football Australia is 1. marquee players- (strikers or attacking mids need only apply) 2. Active support 3. Successful socceroos. 4. That's it. This has to be one off, if not the dumbest posts i've seen on this forum, and there is a fair few of them. The EPL exists cause of the TV deal and global audience, not because of the sugar daddies. The sugar daddies only really hit the EPL in the last 15 or so years, these EPL & English clubs have been around since the 1800's lol. Liverpool's most successful period was in the 70s without all that. Sugar daddies made Australia qualify for WC's? haha. if you think marquee players is what makes australian football tick and is the most important, than you are what's wrong with football in this country. what a stupid post lol. LOL. Who owned BSkyB when the TV deal was struck? Who owned Chelsea in its most successful period? Who owns Man City? Who owns Man United. Who owns Liverpool? The most successful clubs in the world are owned by sugar daddies. They bring in the players that bring in the TV money and the global interest. As for the WC 2005 qualification, without Lowy, it doesn't happen. 2006 doesn't happen. Asian Confederation entry doesn't happen. 2010 doesn't happen. Same players. But none of that happens. As for the marquees , facts are facts. The most successful period of domestic football happened with quality marquees. your statement wasnt about the success of clubs during the sugar daddy period, but the existence of the EPL without the sugar daddies... you dont need to tell me about who owns who in the modern day era, but to suggest a league or clubs wouldnt exist without sugar daddies it's stupid when these clubs have been around since late 1800's. The only difference now is the massive divide its created between the clubs. so your saying beating Uruguay in 2005 was Lowy's work? *Facepalm* The only difference he has made is going to Asia for an 'easier' passage to the world cup, and now that WC's have expanded to 48 teams, everyone get's a participation award. What do you determine success by, bums on seats? strong youth set-up? strong national team? Maybe those marquees can all become Australian Citizens and play for the national team..... oh wait. The EPL didn't exist before Murdoch's money. The club's did but not the EPL. Do you get that? The mega TV deals and the worldwide popularity you mentioned didn't exist in the days of the old First Division. The best international names Div 1 could afford were Jan Molby and Ossie Ardiles. Haaland would not playing for Man City FFS-they wouldn't be able to afford him in Div 1. You are delusional if you think Australia would have qualified in 2005 without Lowy sacking Farina and hiring Hiddink. Not to mention the performance at WC 2006. And the benefits of playing in Asia was more than just WC qualification. As for measuring success, all 3 matter bums on seats, youth development and the Socceroos. Lowy got the bums on seats. Lowy created the National Curriuculum for developing youth, but what happened? The old soccer club coaches completely ignored it for at least the first 5 or so years, because "what could the Dutch Mafia" teach them about coaching.. Lowy set us on a path of 5 consecutive world cups. Before that: none in 32 years. The marquees are there to put bum seats, which unquestionably they did. The Nationa Curriculum is th blue print for youth development which is supposed to feed into the Socceroos. Ask the youth coaches why it hasn't. I get why you and the other Greek poster hate Lowy for creating the A-League and lets be honest deep done some of it is because he's a ...well you know why. By whatever measure, the man is a legend in Australian football. Um..... what? Thats a fairly crappy assumption to make. For the record I dont hate Lowy, I feel sorry for him... Man driven by his ego and desire for revenge ... Sure in your eyes his financial success must be really awesome..... but eh, believe what you want, if you are happy with football in Australia I guess you have every right to idolise sir Frank.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. Not a fair comparison in my opinion.... WU and MacArthur have the benefit of competing in a pro league with other clubs with vastly larger attendances, in a market place that accepts soccer as an Australian sport and one were their matches get broadcast favourably to potential fans... They should be doing 10 x times better than a failed, shoddy, tinpot league from 20 years ago no? Otherwise what was the point of the great Frank Lowy "cleanisng" of the "effniks"? Nothing? between enzo flytox (whatever multi he is) on and on living in the past...... Carrying on about 20yrs ago just doesn't add up period anymore. NSL had its issues but never let them live it down eh..piss easy target. Its was always gonna fail the so called big time into the modern era for liitle ol australia was behind the 8ball in any case. Christ you can't keep beating this old drum of crowds back then to todays world let alone the difference of circumstances, numbers of the past sync with current Bulls/WU. FFS we have grown a little in general population, general outlook regards to migrants has changed so so much obviously as well, media is at your finger tips, what a load of bollocks. In todays world what Franchise of any style business (I deal with some Franchise companies HQ and Franchisee's) can afford its own sugar daddy keep putting in to keep their investment alive by continuous DD $'s into their account, unless they from the ME in most case's talking football, hello CFG. WU IF they survive their consort has to have money on tap to keep burning, we shall see. The Bulls in such a growth area and a football pool I'll give the benefit of the doubt due to starting up upon covid hitting us BUT they should be double what they have attending right now even at the current low numbers. Something is very wrong here for no way is wanderers sucking up most of their support, let alone their management blunders ie over priced ticking, going down hard on the limited active support they had, the takeover of NBridge getting into PL1, why hasn't that SW and west region got on board some, forget talking about crowds of 20yrs ago + a non tech time and wog league - the world has moved on 1000mph since - something doesn't add up, who can afford that long for a sound supporter base and ROI, business is business. In saying the above what damage does a half baked supported Club do to the image of the league in the big picture, to some may say thats the same everywhere of low supported Clubs BUT this is Australia, we're a minnow, fighting against other codes that are way ahead commercial wise, thats what Joe Average sees and pass's judgement. What about the elephant in the room talking Sydney and WSW, the golden child and people carry on about its template of the past. Their supporter base numbers are a third to what they once were. Forgetting the RBB being rubbed out to a degree what of the other fair weathered supporters, seems they only back when winning which is typical Aussie generally as well. Leave the NSD alone you guys, no one is expecting big numbers, I'm sure the FA and the Clubs aren't going into this half cocked. Long overdue having something that creates a better pyramid and nuture the game where its needed big time getting out of the dark. What are you smoking? The EPL exists because of "sugar daddies". Your own club in the EPL is owned by several of them. Hello Fenway Sports Group. Without their half a billion USD, Liverpool was fucked.. Community clubs can survive small time. The big time requires dollars. Lots of them. From people with deep pockets. Not by selling cavapi and beers. Face it. Sugar daddies gave you 2005 WC qualifiers, gave you the 2006 and 2010 WC's where we actually won games, and he give you 60,000 to watch two "plastic" franchise. teams. They gave your Liverpool an EPL title. Now the failed NSL clubs want in to be a part of something they could never have achieved because no-one wanted to invest in them. And tell us this it will be different today? how? What works for football Australia is 1. marquee players- (strikers or attacking mids need only apply) 2. Active support 3. Successful socceroos. 4. That's it. This has to be one off, if not the dumbest posts i've seen on this forum, and there is a fair few of them. The EPL exists cause of the TV deal and global audience, not because of the sugar daddies. The sugar daddies only really hit the EPL in the last 15 or so years, these EPL & English clubs have been around since the 1800's lol. Liverpool's most successful period was in the 70s without all that. Sugar daddies made Australia qualify for WC's? haha. if you think marquee players is what makes australian football tick and is the most important, than you are what's wrong with football in this country. what a stupid post lol. LOL. Who owned BSkyB when the TV deal was struck? Who owned Chelsea in its most successful period? Who owns Man City? Who owns Man United. Who owns Liverpool? The most successful clubs in the world are owned by sugar daddies. They bring in the players that bring in the TV money and the global interest. As for the WC 2005 qualification, without Lowy, it doesn't happen. 2006 doesn't happen. Asian Confederation entry doesn't happen. 2010 doesn't happen. Same players. But none of that happens. As for the marquees , facts are facts. The most successful period of domestic football happened with quality marquees. your statement wasnt about the success of clubs during the sugar daddy period, but the existence of the EPL without the sugar daddies... you dont need to tell me about who owns who in the modern day era, but to suggest a league or clubs wouldnt exist without sugar daddies it's stupid when these clubs have been around since late 1800's. The only difference now is the massive divide its created between the clubs. so your saying beating Uruguay in 2005 was Lowy's work? *Facepalm* The only difference he has made is going to Asia for an 'easier' passage to the world cup, and now that WC's have expanded to 48 teams, everyone get's a participation award. What do you determine success by, bums on seats? strong youth set-up? strong national team? Maybe those marquees can all become Australian Citizens and play for the national team..... oh wait. The EPL didn't exist before Murdoch's money. The club's did but not the EPL. Do you get that? The mega TV deals and the worldwide popularity you mentioned didn't exist in the days of the old First Division. The best international names Div 1 could afford were Jan Molby and Ossie Ardiles. Haaland would not playing for Man City FFS-they wouldn't be able to afford him in Div 1. You are delusional if you think Australia would have qualified in 2005 without Lowy sacking Farina and hiring Hiddink. Not to mention the performance at WC 2006. And the benefits of playing in Asia was more than just WC qualification. As for measuring success, all 3 matter bums on seats, youth development and the Socceroos. Lowy got the bums on seats. Lowy created the National Curriuculum for developing youth, but what happened? The old soccer club coaches completely ignored it for at least the first 5 or so years, because "what could the Dutch Mafia" teach them about coaching.. Lowy set us on a path of 5 consecutive world cups. Before that: none in 32 years. The marquees are there to put bum seats, which unquestionably they did. The Nationa Curriculum is th blue print for youth development which is supposed to feed into the Socceroos. Ask the youth coaches why it hasn't. I get why you and the other Greek poster hate Lowy for creating the A-League and lets be honest deep done some of it is because he's a ...well you know why. By whatever measure, the man is a legend in Australian football. Um..... what? Thats a fairly crappy assumption to make. For the record I dont hate Lowy, I feel sorry for him... Man driven by his ego and desire for revenge ... Sure in your eyes his financial success must be really awesome..... but eh, believe what you want, if you are happy with football in Australia I guess you have every right to idolise sir Frank. Bollocks. He was driven for his love of the game and to make it the best he could. The man is billionaire..he didn't need all the head fucks the game gave him. Peak A-league were the best years of domestic Australian football ever. Maybe not for you and the other 750 South fans but the majority of football fans in this country.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. yeah I think once the 2nd div starts, if any club up the top of the table is getting larger crowds than the lowest attended a league club, there really isn't a reason not to promote them. If there are 16 teams in both comps, there are hopefully enough teams to handle the unique challenges of australia to have p and r having said that, I'm open to more expansion clubs as I do think there are a few places that can get bigger crowds than the nsl average. There probably aren't any 20k clubs out there but maybe 4 places where 6-8k is possible I'm no anti pro-rel but I do think if Brisbane, CCM, WU, Macarthur etc were relegated they'd definitely fold. Would make things awkward in the NSD. if that happens, so be it. the cream rises to the top And with it commercial death. and with that, t he best players leave and its a downward spiral. Thats the best thing about it..... What? playing in front of 750 plus 2 stray dogs? No, the fact that the recycling of clubs/players the pro/rel system forces is the ultimate incentive to drive growth beyond the existing 11 Australian franchises. I know you really care about the ROI of the foreign owners of the existing clubs (you must be an investor or one of the owners perhaps, why else would you care?) but I am talking about what is best for ALL of Australia's 700+ clubs and ultimately the national teams. Its a pretty simple equation more clubs with the opportunity to improve themselves = more facilities = better players in the development pool = strongers national teams = growth of popularity of the sport -----and back to the start of the cycle onwards an upwards... Whether its 750 and 2 dogs watching a small NPL club or 450 and 2000 seagulls in a cavernous AAMI park watching the current Champions of Australia WHO CARES?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. Not a fair comparison in my opinion.... WU and MacArthur have the benefit of competing in a pro league with other clubs with vastly larger attendances, in a market place that accepts soccer as an Australian sport and one were their matches get broadcast favourably to potential fans... They should be doing 10 x times better than a failed, shoddy, tinpot league from 20 years ago no? Otherwise what was the point of the great Frank Lowy "cleanisng" of the "effniks"? Nothing? between enzo flytox (whatever multi he is) on and on living in the past...... Carrying on about 20yrs ago just doesn't add up period anymore. NSL had its issues but never let them live it down eh..piss easy target. Its was always gonna fail the so called big time into the modern era for liitle ol australia was behind the 8ball in any case. Christ you can't keep beating this old drum of crowds back then to todays world let alone the difference of circumstances, numbers of the past sync with current Bulls/WU. FFS we have grown a little in general population, general outlook regards to migrants has changed so so much obviously as well, media is at your finger tips, what a load of bollocks. In todays world what Franchise of any style business (I deal with some Franchise companies HQ and Franchisee's) can afford its own sugar daddy keep putting in to keep their investment alive by continuous DD $'s into their account, unless they from the ME in most case's talking football, hello CFG. WU IF they survive their consort has to have money on tap to keep burning, we shall see. The Bulls in such a growth area and a football pool I'll give the benefit of the doubt due to starting up upon covid hitting us BUT they should be double what they have attending right now even at the current low numbers. Something is very wrong here for no way is wanderers sucking up most of their support, let alone their management blunders ie over priced ticking, going down hard on the limited active support they had, the takeover of NBridge getting into PL1, why hasn't that SW and west region got on board some, forget talking about crowds of 20yrs ago + a non tech time and wog league - the world has moved on 1000mph since - something doesn't add up, who can afford that long for a sound supporter base and ROI, business is business. In saying the above what damage does a half baked supported Club do to the image of the league in the big picture, to some may say thats the same everywhere of low supported Clubs BUT this is Australia, we're a minnow, fighting against other codes that are way ahead commercial wise, thats what Joe Average sees and pass's judgement. What about the elephant in the room talking Sydney and WSW, the golden child and people carry on about its template of the past. Their supporter base numbers are a third to what they once were. Forgetting the RBB being rubbed out to a degree what of the other fair weathered supporters, seems they only back when winning which is typical Aussie generally as well. Leave the NSD alone you guys, no one is expecting big numbers, I'm sure the FA and the Clubs aren't going into this half cocked. Long overdue having something that creates a better pyramid and nuture the game where its needed big time getting out of the dark. What are you smoking? The EPL exists because of "sugar daddies". Your own club in the EPL is owned by several of them. Hello Fenway Sports Group. Without their half a billion USD, Liverpool was fucked.. Community clubs can survive small time. The big time requires dollars. Lots of them. From people with deep pockets. Not by selling cavapi and beers. Face it. Sugar daddies gave you 2005 WC qualifiers, gave you the 2006 and 2010 WC's where we actually won games, and he give you 60,000 to watch two "plastic" franchise. teams. They gave your Liverpool an EPL title. Now the failed NSL clubs want in to be a part of something they could never have achieved because no-one wanted to invest in them. And tell us this it will be different today? how? What works for football Australia is 1. marquee players- (strikers or attacking mids need only apply) 2. Active support 3. Successful socceroos. 4. That's it. This has to be one off, if not the dumbest posts i've seen on this forum, and there is a fair few of them. The EPL exists cause of the TV deal and global audience, not because of the sugar daddies. The sugar daddies only really hit the EPL in the last 15 or so years, these EPL & English clubs have been around since the 1800's lol. Liverpool's most successful period was in the 70s without all that. Sugar daddies made Australia qualify for WC's? haha. if you think marquee players is what makes australian football tick and is the most important, than you are what's wrong with football in this country. what a stupid post lol. LOL. Who owned BSkyB when the TV deal was struck? Who owned Chelsea in its most successful period? Who owns Man City? Who owns Man United. Who owns Liverpool? The most successful clubs in the world are owned by sugar daddies. They bring in the players that bring in the TV money and the global interest. As for the WC 2005 qualification, without Lowy, it doesn't happen. 2006 doesn't happen. Asian Confederation entry doesn't happen. 2010 doesn't happen. Same players. But none of that happens. As for the marquees , facts are facts. The most successful period of domestic football happened with quality marquees. your statement wasnt about the success of clubs during the sugar daddy period, but the existence of the EPL without the sugar daddies... you dont need to tell me about who owns who in the modern day era, but to suggest a league or clubs wouldnt exist without sugar daddies it's stupid when these clubs have been around since late 1800's. The only difference now is the massive divide its created between the clubs. so your saying beating Uruguay in 2005 was Lowy's work? *Facepalm* The only difference he has made is going to Asia for an 'easier' passage to the world cup, and now that WC's have expanded to 48 teams, everyone get's a participation award. What do you determine success by, bums on seats? strong youth set-up? strong national team? Maybe those marquees can all become Australian Citizens and play for the national team..... oh wait. The EPL didn't exist before Murdoch's money. The club's did but not the EPL. Do you get that? The mega TV deals and the worldwide popularity you mentioned didn't exist in the days of the old First Division. The best international names Div 1 could afford were Jan Molby and Ossie Ardiles. Haaland would not playing for Man City FFS-they wouldn't be able to afford him in Div 1. You are delusional if you think Australia would have qualified in 2005 without Lowy sacking Farina and hiring Hiddink. Not to mention the performance at WC 2006. And the benefits of playing in Asia was more than just WC qualification. As for measuring success, all 3 matter bums on seats, youth development and the Socceroos. Lowy got the bums on seats. Lowy created the National Curriuculum for developing youth, but what happened? The old soccer club coaches completely ignored it for at least the first 5 or so years, because "what could the Dutch Mafia" teach them about coaching.. Lowy set us on a path of 5 consecutive world cups. Before that: none in 32 years. The marquees are there to put bum seats, which unquestionably they did. The Nationa Curriculum is th blue print for youth development which is supposed to feed into the Socceroos. Ask the youth coaches why it hasn't. I get why you and the other Greek poster hate Lowy for creating the A-League and lets be honest deep done some of it is because he's a ...well you know why. By whatever measure, the man is a legend in Australian football. Um..... what? Thats a fairly crappy assumption to make. For the record I dont hate Lowy, I feel sorry for him... Man driven by his ego and desire for revenge ... Sure in your eyes his financial success must be really awesome..... but eh, believe what you want, if you are happy with football in Australia I guess you have every right to idolise sir Frank. Bollocks. He was driven for his love of the game and to make it the best he could. The man is billionaire..he didn't need all the head fucks the game gave him. Peak A-league were the best years of domestic Australian football ever. Maybe not for you and the other 750 South fans but the majority of football fans in this country. If you say so......
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. yeah I think once the 2nd div starts, if any club up the top of the table is getting larger crowds than the lowest attended a league club, there really isn't a reason not to promote them. If there are 16 teams in both comps, there are hopefully enough teams to handle the unique challenges of australia to have p and r having said that, I'm open to more expansion clubs as I do think there are a few places that can get bigger crowds than the nsl average. There probably aren't any 20k clubs out there but maybe 4 places where 6-8k is possible I'm no anti pro-rel but I do think if Brisbane, CCM, WU, Macarthur etc were relegated they'd definitely fold. Would make things awkward in the NSD. if that happens, so be it. the cream rises to the top And with it commercial death. and with that, t he best players leave and its a downward spiral. Thats the best thing about it..... What? playing in front of 750 plus 2 stray dogs? No, the fact that the recycling of clubs/players the pro/rel system forces is the ultimate incentive to drive growth beyond the existing 11 Australian franchises. I know you really care about the ROI of the foreign owners of the existing clubs (you must be an investor or one of the owners perhaps, why else would you care?) but I am talking about what is best for ALL of Australia's 700+ clubs and ultimately the national teams. Its a pretty simple equation more clubs with the opportunity to improve themselves = more facilities = better players in the development pool = strongers national teams = growth of popularity of the sport -----and back to the start of the cycle onwards an upwards... Whether its 750 and 2 dogs watching a small NPL club or 450 and 2000 seagulls in a cavernous AAMI park watching the current Champions of Australia WHO CARES? The recycling of players is a good point. The question is why is it happening? Could be several reasons: 1. Clubs and coaches don't want to take the risk on youth/unknowns 2. Clubs lack scouts 3. the opportunity isn't there 4. The talent isn't there. Points 1. and 2. are failures of the clubs. Point 3 and 4 is a failure of the people entrusted to develop the next generation. We jizz our pants when someone like Arzani or Tilio appear. Why? Because these guys are better than most of what we have on the ball, and that comes down to having a decent first touch. As long as I can remember going back to the 1980's, Australian players with a good first touch are the exception. Watch the WC- we will have the worst overall technical ability of any of the 32 nations there. Whose fault is that?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. yeah I think once the 2nd div starts, if any club up the top of the table is getting larger crowds than the lowest attended a league club, there really isn't a reason not to promote them. If there are 16 teams in both comps, there are hopefully enough teams to handle the unique challenges of australia to have p and r having said that, I'm open to more expansion clubs as I do think there are a few places that can get bigger crowds than the nsl average. There probably aren't any 20k clubs out there but maybe 4 places where 6-8k is possible I'm no anti pro-rel but I do think if Brisbane, CCM, WU, Macarthur etc were relegated they'd definitely fold. Would make things awkward in the NSD. if that happens, so be it. the cream rises to the top And with it commercial death. and with that, t he best players leave and its a downward spiral. Thats the best thing about it..... What? playing in front of 750 plus 2 stray dogs? No, the fact that the recycling of clubs/players the pro/rel system forces is the ultimate incentive to drive growth beyond the existing 11 Australian franchises. I know you really care about the ROI of the foreign owners of the existing clubs (you must be an investor or one of the owners perhaps, why else would you care?) but I am talking about what is best for ALL of Australia's 700+ clubs and ultimately the national teams. Its a pretty simple equation more clubs with the opportunity to improve themselves = more facilities = better players in the development pool = strongers national teams = growth of popularity of the sport -----and back to the start of the cycle onwards an upwards... Whether its 750 and 2 dogs watching a small NPL club or 450 and 2000 seagulls in a cavernous AAMI park watching the current Champions of Australia WHO CARES? The recycling of players is a good point. The question is why is it happening? Could be several reasons: 1. Clubs and coaches don't want to take the risk on youth/unknowns 2. Clubs lack scouts 3. the opportunity isn't there 4. The talent isn't there. Points 1. and 2. are failures of the clubs. Point 3 and 4 is a failure of the people entrusted to develop the next generation. We jizz our pants when someone like Arzani or Tilio appear. Why? Because these guys are better than most of what we have on the ball, and that comes down to having a decent first touch. As long as I can remember going back to the 1980's, Australian players with a good first touch are the exception. Watch the WC- we will have the worst overall technical ability of any of the 32 nations there. Whose fault is that? I agree with you sadly... Its been this way for far to long... But can you tell me who you think is (or should be) "entrusted to develop the next generation"?
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. yeah I think once the 2nd div starts, if any club up the top of the table is getting larger crowds than the lowest attended a league club, there really isn't a reason not to promote them. If there are 16 teams in both comps, there are hopefully enough teams to handle the unique challenges of australia to have p and r having said that, I'm open to more expansion clubs as I do think there are a few places that can get bigger crowds than the nsl average. There probably aren't any 20k clubs out there but maybe 4 places where 6-8k is possible I'm no anti pro-rel but I do think if Brisbane, CCM, WU, Macarthur etc were relegated they'd definitely fold. Would make things awkward in the NSD. if that happens, so be it. the cream rises to the top And with it commercial death. and with that, t he best players leave and its a downward spiral. Thats the best thing about it..... What? playing in front of 750 plus 2 stray dogs? No, the fact that the recycling of clubs/players the pro/rel system forces is the ultimate incentive to drive growth beyond the existing 11 Australian franchises. I know you really care about the ROI of the foreign owners of the existing clubs (you must be an investor or one of the owners perhaps, why else would you care?) but I am talking about what is best for ALL of Australia's 700+ clubs and ultimately the national teams. Its a pretty simple equation more clubs with the opportunity to improve themselves = more facilities = better players in the development pool = strongers national teams = growth of popularity of the sport -----and back to the start of the cycle onwards an upwards... Whether its 750 and 2 dogs watching a small NPL club or 450 and 2000 seagulls in a cavernous AAMI park watching the current Champions of Australia WHO CARES? The recycling of players is a good point. The question is why is it happening? Could be several reasons: 1. Clubs and coaches don't want to take the risk on youth/unknowns 2. Clubs lack scouts 3. the opportunity isn't there 4. The talent isn't there. Points 1. and 2. are failures of the clubs. Point 3 and 4 is a failure of the people entrusted to develop the next generation. We jizz our pants when someone like Arzani or Tilio appear. Why? Because these guys are better than most of what we have on the ball, and that comes down to having a decent first touch. As long as I can remember going back to the 1980's, Australian players with a good first touch are the exception. Watch the WC- we will have the worst overall technical ability of any of the 32 nations there. Whose fault is that? I agree with you sadly... Its been this way for far to long... But can you tell me who you think is (or should be) "entrusted to develop the next generation"? Well that's a whole of football responsibility. Which is why we have a NATIONAL Curriculum. How well has that been implemented by the A-League and the lower tiers? Melbourne City in the past few years has been very active in identifying and playing youth. The Mariners and the Jest too. The other 3 big clubs Sydney FC Melbourne Victory and Western Sydney less so. You tell me how the lower league clubs are going with that because I don't follow them, you do.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. yeah I think once the 2nd div starts, if any club up the top of the table is getting larger crowds than the lowest attended a league club, there really isn't a reason not to promote them. If there are 16 teams in both comps, there are hopefully enough teams to handle the unique challenges of australia to have p and r having said that, I'm open to more expansion clubs as I do think there are a few places that can get bigger crowds than the nsl average. There probably aren't any 20k clubs out there but maybe 4 places where 6-8k is possible I'm no anti pro-rel but I do think if Brisbane, CCM, WU, Macarthur etc were relegated they'd definitely fold. Would make things awkward in the NSD. if that happens, so be it. the cream rises to the top And with it commercial death. and with that, t he best players leave and its a downward spiral. Thats the best thing about it..... What? playing in front of 750 plus 2 stray dogs? No, the fact that the recycling of clubs/players the pro/rel system forces is the ultimate incentive to drive growth beyond the existing 11 Australian franchises. I know you really care about the ROI of the foreign owners of the existing clubs (you must be an investor or one of the owners perhaps, why else would you care?) but I am talking about what is best for ALL of Australia's 700+ clubs and ultimately the national teams. Its a pretty simple equation more clubs with the opportunity to improve themselves = more facilities = better players in the development pool = strongers national teams = growth of popularity of the sport -----and back to the start of the cycle onwards an upwards... Whether its 750 and 2 dogs watching a small NPL club or 450 and 2000 seagulls in a cavernous AAMI park watching the current Champions of Australia WHO CARES? The recycling of players is a good point. The question is why is it happening? Could be several reasons: 1. Clubs and coaches don't want to take the risk on youth/unknowns 2. Clubs lack scouts 3. the opportunity isn't there 4. The talent isn't there. Points 1. and 2. are failures of the clubs. Point 3 and 4 is a failure of the people entrusted to develop the next generation. We jizz our pants when someone like Arzani or Tilio appear. Why? Because these guys are better than most of what we have on the ball, and that comes down to having a decent first touch. As long as I can remember going back to the 1980's, Australian players with a good first touch are the exception. Watch the WC- we will have the worst overall technical ability of any of the 32 nations there. Whose fault is that? I agree with you sadly... Its been this way for far to long... But can you tell me who you think is (or should be) "entrusted to develop the next generation"? Well that's a whole of football responsibility. Which is why we have a NATIONAL Curriculum. How well has that been implemented by the A-League and the lower tiers? Melbourne City in the past few years has been very active in identifying and playing youth. The Mariners and the Jest too. The other 3 big clubs Sydney FC Melbourne Victory and Western Sydney less so. You tell me how the lower league clubs are going with that because I don't follow them, you do. Horribly, in my opinion. they are forced to spend beyond their means to comply with this joke of a NC, which in turn drives the cost of participation up stupidly leading to the talented kids without the financial backing of well to do parents not being "in the system" The few players that do shine through somehow, get poached, for nothing, and the cycle continues. I agree 100% that it is a "whole of football" responsibility thus the push to have more professional clubs.... Only way that is going to happen is to give them a chance to be professional. Giving the "keys to the kingdom" to foreign owners who see development of youth and player academies as a financial drain on their ROI is NOT the answer, Just ask the Indonesian bloke at Brisbane Roar.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.5K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. yeah I think once the 2nd div starts, if any club up the top of the table is getting larger crowds than the lowest attended a league club, there really isn't a reason not to promote them. If there are 16 teams in both comps, there are hopefully enough teams to handle the unique challenges of australia to have p and r having said that, I'm open to more expansion clubs as I do think there are a few places that can get bigger crowds than the nsl average. There probably aren't any 20k clubs out there but maybe 4 places where 6-8k is possible I'm no anti pro-rel but I do think if Brisbane, CCM, WU, Macarthur etc were relegated they'd definitely fold. Would make things awkward in the NSD. if that happens, so be it. the cream rises to the top And with it commercial death. and with that, t he best players leave and its a downward spiral. Thats the best thing about it..... What? playing in front of 750 plus 2 stray dogs? No, the fact that the recycling of clubs/players the pro/rel system forces is the ultimate incentive to drive growth beyond the existing 11 Australian franchises. I know you really care about the ROI of the foreign owners of the existing clubs (you must be an investor or one of the owners perhaps, why else would you care?) but I am talking about what is best for ALL of Australia's 700+ clubs and ultimately the national teams. Its a pretty simple equation more clubs with the opportunity to improve themselves = more facilities = better players in the development pool = strongers national teams = growth of popularity of the sport -----and back to the start of the cycle onwards an upwards... Whether its 750 and 2 dogs watching a small NPL club or 450 and 2000 seagulls in a cavernous AAMI park watching the current Champions of Australia WHO CARES? The recycling of players is a good point. The question is why is it happening? Could be several reasons: 1. Clubs and coaches don't want to take the risk on youth/unknowns 2. Clubs lack scouts 3. the opportunity isn't there 4. The talent isn't there. Points 1. and 2. are failures of the clubs. Point 3 and 4 is a failure of the people entrusted to develop the next generation. We jizz our pants when someone like Arzani or Tilio appear. Why? Because these guys are better than most of what we have on the ball, and that comes down to having a decent first touch. As long as I can remember going back to the 1980's, Australian players with a good first touch are the exception. Watch the WC- we will have the worst overall technical ability of any of the 32 nations there. Whose fault is that? I agree with you sadly... Its been this way for far to long... But can you tell me who you think is (or should be) "entrusted to develop the next generation"? Well that's a whole of football responsibility. Which is why we have a NATIONAL Curriculum. How well has that been implemented by the A-League and the lower tiers? Melbourne City in the past few years has been very active in identifying and playing youth. The Mariners and the Jest too. The other 3 big clubs Sydney FC Melbourne Victory and Western Sydney less so. You tell me how the lower league clubs are going with that because I don't follow them, you do. Horribly, in my opinion. they are forced to spend beyond their means to comply with this joke of a NC, which in turn drives the cost of participation up stupidly leading to the talented kids without the financial backing of well to do parents not being "in the system" The few players that do shine through somehow, get poached, for nothing, and the cycle continues. I agree 100% that it is a "whole of football" responsibility thus the push to have more professional clubs.... Only way that is going to happen is to give them a chance to be professional. Giving the "keys to the kingdom" to foreign owners who see development of youth and player academies as a financial drain on their ROI is NOT the answer, Just ask the Indonesian bloke at Brisbane Roar. The NC is a standardized coaching framework. If the costs are prohibitive for the best talent to afford it order to participate, then that's a huge problem that needs rectification. But I'm not surprised- a decade ago I had a local coach tell me how he quit his day job to coach "because there was so much money in it these days". I thought then "hmmm...." Compensation for lower league youth development is another area that needs review. Not all A-league clubs are that short-sighted when it comes to youth development: I've given you examples of clubs who have embraced youth development and have received ROI from it.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. yeah I think once the 2nd div starts, if any club up the top of the table is getting larger crowds than the lowest attended a league club, there really isn't a reason not to promote them. If there are 16 teams in both comps, there are hopefully enough teams to handle the unique challenges of australia to have p and r having said that, I'm open to more expansion clubs as I do think there are a few places that can get bigger crowds than the nsl average. There probably aren't any 20k clubs out there but maybe 4 places where 6-8k is possible I'm no anti pro-rel but I do think if Brisbane, CCM, WU, Macarthur etc were relegated they'd definitely fold. Would make things awkward in the NSD. if that happens, so be it. the cream rises to the top And with it commercial death. and with that, t he best players leave and its a downward spiral. Thats the best thing about it..... What? playing in front of 750 plus 2 stray dogs? No, the fact that the recycling of clubs/players the pro/rel system forces is the ultimate incentive to drive growth beyond the existing 11 Australian franchises. I know you really care about the ROI of the foreign owners of the existing clubs (you must be an investor or one of the owners perhaps, why else would you care?) but I am talking about what is best for ALL of Australia's 700+ clubs and ultimately the national teams. Its a pretty simple equation more clubs with the opportunity to improve themselves = more facilities = better players in the development pool = strongers national teams = growth of popularity of the sport -----and back to the start of the cycle onwards an upwards... Whether its 750 and 2 dogs watching a small NPL club or 450 and 2000 seagulls in a cavernous AAMI park watching the current Champions of Australia WHO CARES? The recycling of players is a good point. The question is why is it happening? Could be several reasons: 1. Clubs and coaches don't want to take the risk on youth/unknowns 2. Clubs lack scouts 3. the opportunity isn't there 4. The talent isn't there. Points 1. and 2. are failures of the clubs. Point 3 and 4 is a failure of the people entrusted to develop the next generation. We jizz our pants when someone like Arzani or Tilio appear. Why? Because these guys are better than most of what we have on the ball, and that comes down to having a decent first touch. As long as I can remember going back to the 1980's, Australian players with a good first touch are the exception. Watch the WC- we will have the worst overall technical ability of any of the 32 nations there. Whose fault is that? I agree with you sadly... Its been this way for far to long... But can you tell me who you think is (or should be) "entrusted to develop the next generation"? Well that's a whole of football responsibility. Which is why we have a NATIONAL Curriculum. How well has that been implemented by the A-League and the lower tiers? Melbourne City in the past few years has been very active in identifying and playing youth. The Mariners and the Jest too. The other 3 big clubs Sydney FC Melbourne Victory and Western Sydney less so. You tell me how the lower league clubs are going with that because I don't follow them, you do. Horribly, in my opinion. they are forced to spend beyond their means to comply with this joke of a NC, which in turn drives the cost of participation up stupidly leading to the talented kids without the financial backing of well to do parents not being "in the system" The few players that do shine through somehow, get poached, for nothing, and the cycle continues. I agree 100% that it is a "whole of football" responsibility thus the push to have more professional clubs.... Only way that is going to happen is to give them a chance to be professional. Giving the "keys to the kingdom" to foreign owners who see development of youth and player academies as a financial drain on their ROI is NOT the answer, Just ask the Indonesian bloke at Brisbane Roar. The NC is a standardized coaching framework. If the costs are prohibitive for the best talent to afford it order to participate, then that's a huge problem that needs rectification. But I'm not surprised- a decade ago I had a local coach tell me how he quit his day job to coach "because there was so much money in it these days". I thought then "hmmm...." Compensation for lower league youth development is another area that needs review. Not all A-league clubs are that short-sighted when it comes to youth development: I've given you examples of clubs who have embraced youth development and have received ROI from it. Let me re-phrase, its not the NC coaching framework which drives the costs, its the implementation of "structures" around it, NPL licensing requirements as an example, which does that. Im not "in the system" but many others on here seem to echo your story of coaches being paid far too much, of FFA licensing courses for coaches costing exorbitant amounts, insurances, insistence on TD and licensed coaches at every age group, every NPL club to have a "set" representation of teams across age groups etc etc and of the myriad other expenses incurred which mean our best kids cant afford to train at the best clubs.... Until a fair and even transfer system is implemented then both Aleague academies and NPL academies are a cost blow out......for well meaning parents There is no AIS or state equivalents taking up the slack...... the pathways are broken. Im sure the backroom staff at many Aleague clubs are operating with the best intentions but there is a reason why they focus on the older age groups where they can scout, rather than develop form young kids, the pick of the bunch in their region........ MONEY...... "Sir" Frank threw out ALL the toys from the cot, burnt the nurseries even, and these foreigners will only help develop the next generation of Socceroos and Matilda is there is a buck to be made.... at the moment there doesn't appear to be. Yes one or two Aleague academies have sold players but sincerely mate, that's not much when the NSL clubs did it at a fairly similar pace 20 years ago..... I hear you, and others, repeat the whole, "we now routinely qualify for WCs" and "Scott and Charlene from the western suburbs now feel safe at the sokkah" as a justification for the "New Football" revolution .... If all we want out of the game is this then ..... I shrug my shoulders in dismay.
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+x+x+x+x+x+xThere has been a lot of comment about the small crowds at the Bulls and Western home games and I agree that they are low but are they low compared to the NSL attendances when the NSL was struggling in its dying years? Over a 3 year period:- 5 clubs had average crowds less than 3,000. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 3,000 to 4,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 4,000 to 5,000 range. 2 clubs had average crowds in the 5,000 to 6,000 range. 1 club had average crowds in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. This is the summation of Adelaide City and Adelaide United and Adelaide United on its own was in excess of 10,000. 1 club had average crowds in excess of 10,000. The clubs with the highest attendance, Adelaide United and Perth Glory, were accepted into the A-League. Both were broad-based clubs. Of the other clubs only South Melbourne I think would have transitioned easily into the A-League. The fact that both Western and the Bulls support is equal with the bottom half of the NSL clubs puts their position in context. As start up clubs in growth locations they are doing as well as clubs that had been through the struggles all football clubs go through for 20+ years in the NSL. That they have a lot of work to do to grow their fanbase goes without saying. For the good of football in their locations I hope they succeed. Looking at those NSL crowds I think that they represent a target for the clubs that get into the NSD. If they meet that level of support I think they will make a positive contribution to football and the development of talented players that is sorely needed. Not a fair comparison in my opinion.... WU and MacArthur have the benefit of competing in a pro league with other clubs with vastly larger attendances, in a market place that accepts soccer as an Australian sport and one were their matches get broadcast favourably to potential fans... They should be doing 10 x times better than a failed, shoddy, tinpot league from 20 years ago no? Otherwise what was the point of the great Frank Lowy "cleanisng" of the "effniks"? Nothing? between enzo flytox (whatever multi he is) on and on living in the past...... Carrying on about 20yrs ago just doesn't add up period anymore. NSL had its issues but never let them live it down eh..piss easy target. Its was always gonna fail the so called big time into the modern era for liitle ol australia was behind the 8ball in any case. Christ you can't keep beating this old drum of crowds back then to todays world let alone the difference of circumstances, numbers of the past sync with current Bulls/WU. FFS we have grown a little in general population, general outlook regards to migrants has changed so so much obviously as well, media is at your finger tips, what a load of bollocks. In todays world what Franchise of any style business (I deal with some Franchise companies HQ and Franchisee's) can afford its own sugar daddy keep putting in to keep their investment alive by continuous DD $'s into their account, unless they from the ME in most case's talking football, hello CFG. WU IF they survive their consort has to have money on tap to keep burning, we shall see. The Bulls in such a growth area and a football pool I'll give the benefit of the doubt due to starting up upon covid hitting us BUT they should be double what they have attending right now even at the current low numbers. Something is very wrong here for no way is wanderers sucking up most of their support, let alone their management blunders ie over priced ticking, going down hard on the limited active support they had, the takeover of NBridge getting into PL1, why hasn't that SW and west region got on board some, forget talking about crowds of 20yrs ago + a non tech time and wog league - the world has moved on 1000mph since - something doesn't add up, who can afford that long for a sound supporter base and ROI, business is business. In saying the above what damage does a half baked supported Club do to the image of the league in the big picture, to some may say thats the same everywhere of low supported Clubs BUT this is Australia, we're a minnow, fighting against other codes that are way ahead commercial wise, thats what Joe Average sees and pass's judgement. What about the elephant in the room talking Sydney and WSW, the golden child and people carry on about its template of the past. Their supporter base numbers are a third to what they once were. Forgetting the RBB being rubbed out to a degree what of the other fair weathered supporters, seems they only back when winning which is typical Aussie generally as well. Leave the NSD alone you guys, no one is expecting big numbers, I'm sure the FA and the Clubs aren't going into this half cocked. Long overdue having something that creates a better pyramid and nuture the game where its needed big time getting out of the dark. What are you smoking? The EPL exists because of "sugar daddies". Your own club in the EPL is owned by several of them. Hello Fenway Sports Group. Without their half a billion USD, Liverpool was fucked.. Community clubs can survive small time. The big time requires dollars. Lots of them. From people with deep pockets. Not by selling cavapi and beers. Face it. Sugar daddies gave you 2005 WC qualifiers, gave you the 2006 and 2010 WC's where we actually won games, and he give you 60,000 to watch two "plastic" franchise. teams. They gave your Liverpool an EPL title. Now the failed NSL clubs want in to be a part of something they could never have achieved because no-one wanted to invest in them. And tell us this it will be different today? how? What works for football Australia is 1. marquee players- (strikers or attacking mids need only apply) 2. Active support 3. Successful socceroos. 4. That's it. oh what an attack - you thought about it for a while, the modern day euro/latino/chinese/merican sugar daddys are in P/R comps. Open comps nothing wrong there Plus they have full house's near on every single game, your point is moot and your smoking something.. 05/06/10 came from the backbone broke/failed nsl, guess thats a failure by you.Your other points or questions are still living in the past, move on. A NSD first and foremost for the ol Clubs, whatever develops from that in the long term we shall see, sink or swim. Nope. It came on the back of this: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/farina-quits-as-socceroo-coach-20050630-gdllnf.htmlfollowed by this: https://www.socceroos.com.au/news/hiddink-appointed-coach-socceroos-woby this guy: https://www.footballaustralia.com.au/sir-frank-lowy The backbone I should have been clearer was the bulk of players in all those years who developed through the disfunctional NSL. Yer sure ol Frank money clout got us commercially exposed thankgoodness I agree and no rocket science signing up Guus - you can't read that in the tea leaves pre it just was the perfect storm brewing for those players were there to be guided coming into their primes through those years and pre GG we just didn't have enough players abroad like they got to be. Timing is another thing - without the early NSL/Canberra developed GG all the money in the world doesn't qualify you incl having a well credentialled Guus. Cattle counts first and foremost for after all your Frank fapping our devlopment despite what you mention of some AL clubs only now producing some youth its been limp, still is might I say. Our NT results barring just getting over the line to quali last 2times via longest routes shows how far behind we are of fellow Asian/ME NT's, don't push the barrow we have many up and comers till the proof is in the pudding. Yep its the responsibilty for all in Football striving for success, pity below the Pro level had been neglected it works both ways. Agree to disagree at times Enzo for its not all your way like Frank, when your rich you can afford to walk off because you only want to do it your way. Closed shop was his error and his football passion was over run by his arrogant business mind, you mentioned its the responsibilty of all didn't you, he and son didn't even consider to close the divide they created. As for the Epl and pre, keep puffing your chest SU has countered well enough - times change right, technology yaddayadda, no comp pre tech (SKY etc) could say they could stand up alone financially progress changes the goal posts, costs etc, the time came that sport could be far more global and visible not rocket science. They would have survived but nothing like clipping the ticket why wouldn't you, it happenned before through individual sponsership, a well off local businessman or collective. Nothing new there just that the world has alot more wealthier people expands growth, alot different to pre EPL/Liga/Bundas and the rest. I'll read your posts for at times you make good points, other times meh, just like Frank :)
Love Football
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