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Booney
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+xTalking of first touches here, reading the comments and watching the replay this morning had me agreeing. There were 2 specific instances last night that had me thinking we are just not at the same level. There was the long ball early in the game to Leckie on the right wing where he tried to bring it down on his right and it just went straight out and then Maclaren had a chance in the middle of the box very late to control it and clobber it and it bounced up over head. It's those moments that separate hard working, honest players vs world beaters and challengers for the title. We're not there unfortunately. But we can be. Yep I remember the Leckie incident.It was such a good pass and his miscontrol was dreadful.I missed Maclaren's effort but both incidents emphasise the lack of technique of some of our players.
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angusozi
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+xI've just paused and rewound the post match footage numerous times. As soon as the whistle went, Hrustic went nuts at someone on the bench and walked past Arnold. Arnold was a bit preoccupied anyway. Post game on the field he wasn't to be seen. I counted 25 players. I get his injuries have been frustrating but this boilover and berating team mates needs to be clairifed very quickly. Kuol couldn't see him, Karacic was right to call for the pass. That's a bit worrying - I personally think that's incredibly poor, although it could be said that everyone handles getting knocked out of the world cup in their own way. I'm happy to give him benefit of the doubt that he made up afterwards, but his poor performances haven't been lost on me over the last year or so. I understand many people's want for a specialist #10 for Roos, but imo I think we're equally or better served by simply playing a DM and two #8s since we have lots of creativity on the wings from Tilio, Kuol, Boyle, Goodwin. Rogic and Hrustic are the only players who stand out to me as specialist #10s that have Roos experience, McGree has played there but he's proven to be more effective a bit deeper for both Boro and the Roos. If we gave a dedicated 10 that's comes through, great, but I don't think we have to pigeon hole players into a position they don't fit if there's a more functional system
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Muz
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+xAt least we select shorter players like Behich, Kuol and Maclaren. In a country like Australia where football is at best the 5th most popular sport behind AFL, league, union and cricket, we lose a much larger percentage of talented sportspersons to theses codes than nearly every other country in the World Cup.
This is also wrong. Football is more popular than all of those sports at youth level. Union is largely only played by private school lads, local comps are almost non-existent and largely confined to the old boys network and the leafier suburbs of Sydney. The population argument doesn't hold water. Even if you said we have 4 major codes if you split the population by 4 you'd have 6 million people to draw on. Well Croatia, Costa Rica, Wales and Uruguay and other countries, like Iceland, have populations less than that and pump out players way better than us.
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Muz
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xCan't fault the effort of the players, all tournament. Left it all out there in every game. Arnold got his tactics right too- Cede possession (because the players can't keep it even if they tried), and play on the counter. Craig Foster praised everyone and said we would learn from this. Judging by the comments here we've reset our football development expectations, away from possession football and playing out from the back to absorbing pressure and counter-attacking. Not sure what else we learned that we didn't already know. Excellent results though. I'm not so sure about this. I think many on here want Australia to aspire to dominate games with the ball.
For the first time in a while, I have seen us play to our strengths. We played with a sense of realism. Hopefully our strengths in the future will be a squad full of technical players coupled with the mentality we've showed this WC. Well if that's true, they're not saying so. Yes Arnold did play to our strength, our mentality. He did what he had to with the cattle he had. Always said he is a better fit as a NT coach than Postecoglou who forces players into a game style rather than the fitting the game to the players. I'm less hopeful of having a squad full of technical players- 15 years of being promised it and ending up with possession in the 20's and long balls in the box in 2022. Wanting us to when we have developed the talent underneath is not the same as expecting these particular guys to do it vs Argentina I’m a knock out game.
So much needs to happen in the country to be ready for that and none of that can happen in the once every 4 year showpiece.
You must know this We set out do develop the talent 15 years ago. We've ended up with 42% possession against Tunisia, 31% against Denmark. These are teams we should be matching control of the ball. ( ignore France and Argentina) We are doing something wrong. Every Argentinian player is better on the ball than every Socceroo. Why is this? It is not because of the way we structure youth teams or competitions. It’s because of what we value in young individual players and how we coach their individual skills. To provide some context. Every Argentinian, or Brazilian, is possibly better on the ball than every player in any of the UEFA powerhouse international teams too. Maybe France and Spain are closer to them, but they are far better with close ball control than their domestic playing counterparts in the English, Italian and German leagues. Besides football being a religion in Argentina and Brazil , they also have a massive street football culture in these countries. Another facet of play compared to what I've recently identified as a problem in most UEFA teams, is that they select far too many tall players in any given team, apart from Portugal and Spain, and maybe the Netherlands. Argentina's shorter players with a lower centre of gravity, are more nimble on their feet, able to change direction more quickly, and can turn more quickly. Ditto Brazil. Two facets of first touch are to stop it dead, and , to turn away from the opponent as one simultaneously receives the ball. At least we select shorter players like Behich, Kuol and Maclaren. In a country like Australia where football is at best the 5th most popular sport behind AFL, league, union and cricket, we lose a much larger percentage of talented sportspersons to theses codes than nearly every other country in the World Cup. Plus there is virtually no money for youth development, because AFL takes most of the financial resources, trying to improve the standard for a sport nobody else plays in the world. Governments also put a lot money into Olympic sports too. Apologies to residents of NSW and the ACT. You probably have no idea how AFL enjoys its hegemony in the southern states that it does. Queensland is becoming an AFL state. Incorrect, the aim of the first touch is not to stop it dead, it is so that the ball is left in the correct position so that your second touch is effective. This generally means your first touch takes the ball slightly away from you in the direction you want to go. If you stop it dead, the ball will be too close to your body normally and you will need another touch to get the ball into position to move it in your desired direction. I agree with you. The first touch is definitely not to stop it dead. You want to cushion it either so the next time you touch it you're already moving or you move the ball away from a defender and towards safety. In fact stopping the ball 'dead' just about anywhere on the field is the last thing you want to do.
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Muz
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+x+x+xThat performance was better that the 2006 performance vs Italy. For a start, we played against 11 all game. Arnold did better than Guus with a far less talented team. 100% Besides a silly foul he was great. We should have defended a wide free kick better. He was almost our player of the tournament to be honest After Souttar I think so too. (Behich.) By the way sitting here a day after reading pages 5 to 19 have made for an interesting half hour. @Davide 82. Holy smokes mate, I hope you've calmed down by the time you wake up tomorrow morning.
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johnszasz
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I've just paused and rewound the post match footage numerous times. As soon as the whistle went, Hrustic went nuts at someone on the bench and walked past Arnold. Arnold was a bit preoccupied anyway. Post game on the field he wasn't to be seen. I counted 25 players.
I get his injuries have been frustrating but this boilover and berating team mates needs to be clairifed very quickly. Kuol couldn't see him, Karacic was right to call for the pass.
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mark_000au
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Some people remembered Hrustic goal against UAE but in Asia qualification he caused many turnovers. How many times he got caught and lost possession? In this world cup he didn't make any impact as super sub , very disappointed performance.
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highkick05
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+x+xMooy and Irvine were garbage.. Behich is what how experienced? and how old? and he made errors like a rookie that cost us the game. Irvine should have been replaced he was gassed so was Mooy. Mooy stopped taking free kicks. I mean what kind of world class player does that in what supposed to be joga bonito the World Cup greatest competition in the world. Should be up for it. Decentric talking about Rogic ... a player who doesn't give a shit about Aussie football. Conversely, great seeing Duke, Leckie and Goodwin score though. Players that actually proud of their country and want to be there. Is that a fact? He's played 53 times for the Socceroos. even if him playing for the Socceroos has negatively affected his club performances. Yeah like we say Messi's NT appearances have affected his club performances? not sure I get you there but sounds like typical excuse making. We could write a book on all the excuse making in the Socceroos, why this and that.
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Decentric 2
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+x+xMonths back now but was it Mabil and maybe Hrustic who had that half time argument on the pitch? Against China or Oman I think. Anyway there's some evidence that when Hrustic was being used as the lead and star of the team that things were also on shaky ground. Teams inevitably have cliques. I just hope they're all on the same page. It's a nice thing that Metcalfe is coming through and Genreau needs to get his club minutes sorted. Hrustic has played and is playing at a higher level than any of his team mates. Maybe that's his expectation of his team mates, to be at a similar, or at least better level, than they are. So what? Hrustic has failed to match his Socceroo teammates on the biggest stage of football - the World Cup. If he can't transfer his form to the biggest stage, it does not matter where he plays his club football. His game sense is decidedly inferior to that of most of his Socceroo teammates, despite being a good technician. Ask players from Italy, Belgium, Germany and Denmark? If you can't perform in the World Cup, why is playing at a big club in a reputed big league so good? What is the big deal about playing in Serie A? The national Italian team hasn't been good enough to qualify for the last 2 World Cups.
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patjennings
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+x+xMonths back now but was it Mabil and maybe Hrustic who had that half time argument on the pitch? Against China or Oman I think. Anyway there's some evidence that when Hrustic was being used as the lead and star of the team that things were also on shaky ground. Teams inevitably have cliques. I just hope they're all on the same page. It's a nice thing that Metcalfe is coming through and Genreau needs to get his club minutes sorted. Hrustic has played and is playing at a higher level than any of his team mates. Maybe that's his expectation of his team mates, to be at a similar, or at least better level, than they are. That's fine in and of itself, but while you are playing poorly it carries no weight.
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Enzo Bearzot
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Apart from touch I thought we also lack players who are genuinely quick and strong.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xMonths back now but was it Mabil and maybe Hrustic who had that half time argument on the pitch? Against China or Oman I think. Anyway there's some evidence that when Hrustic was being used as the lead and star of the team that things were also on shaky ground. Teams inevitably have cliques. I just hope they're all on the same page. It's a nice thing that Metcalfe is coming through and Genreau needs to get his club minutes sorted. Hrustic has played and is playing at a higher level than any of his team mates. Maybe that's his expectation of his team mates, to be at a similar, or at least better level, than they are.
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Enzo Bearzot
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+xMooy and Irvine were garbage.. Behich is what how experienced? and how old? and he made errors like a rookie that cost us the game. Irvine should have been replaced he was gassed so was Mooy. Mooy stopped taking free kicks. I mean what kind of world class player does that in what supposed to be joga bonito the World Cup greatest competition in the world. Should be up for it. Decentric talking about Rogic ... a player who doesn't give a shit about Aussie football. Conversely, great seeing Duke, Leckie and Goodwin score though. Players that actually proud of their country and want to be there. Is that a fact? He's played 53 times for the Socceroos. even if him playing for the Socceroos has negatively affected his club performances.
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highkick05
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Mooy and Irvine were garbage.. Behich is what how experienced? and how old? and he made errors like a rookie that cost us the game. Irvine should have been replaced he was gassed so was Mooy. Mooy stopped taking free kicks. I mean what kind of world class player does that in what supposed to be joga bonito the World Cup greatest competition in the world. Should be up for it. Decentric talking about Rogic ... a player who doesn't give a shit about Aussie football. Conversely, great seeing Duke, Leckie and Goodwin score though. Players that actually proud of their country and want to be there.
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Muz
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+xDamn. Goodwin's shot has been officially registered as an own goal. Yeah was going high and left.
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johnszasz
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Damn. Goodwin's shot has been officially registered as an own goal.
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Decentric 2
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+xDid anyone else here see the tweet going around by some journalist (can't recall who exactly) that VAR had to check for a handball after the Kuol shot at the end, that an Argentine player handled the ball while on top of the keeper after he made the save. That would've been controversial. Wow! If we had scored from a dodgy penalty in the last minute of play, it would have been hard for Argentina to recover mentally in Extra Time.
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+x+xCan't fault the effort of the players, all tournament. Left it all out there in every game. Arnold got his tactics right too- Cede possession (because the players can't keep it even if they tried), and play on the counter. Craig Foster praised everyone and said we would learn from this. Judging by the comments here we've reset our football development expectations, away from possession football and playing out from the back to absorbing pressure and counter-attacking. Not sure what else we learned that we didn't already know. Excellent results though. I'm not so sure about this. I think many on here want Australia to aspire to dominate games with the ball. For the first time in a while, I have seen us play to our strengths. This^ That is one thing that Arnie has over Ange and why he is a better NT manager, where you need to make do with what you have. 100%. But is THIS how we want the team to play because we've had it as far as I can remember, since the 1980's Personally, I think the whole idea of trying to create a ‘national playing style’ is bollocks. We should be focusing on trying to create the best, most skilled players. If we have more skilful players, the NT coach can obviously play a different style of play than what Arnold could play with this squad. The NT manager’s sole job is to get the best results he can, with the players he has, not to play in any particular style. If you had been at the Football Aus National Conferences most overtly, agree with the the arguments advanced by the boffins in the Technical Dept that we try to create a national playing style. Within reason, all of the World Cup winners to date have developed a national playing style - France, Germany, Spain, England, Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay have been Proactive. Italy are usually Reactive . So we've tried to play a style that is Proactive - based on Germany, France, Spain and Holland's methodology. Former Socceroos, have stood up and delivered lectures about how hard it was in the 80s and 90s to win the ball back when Aus teams lost possession to the better South American teams at any age level. Ali Edwards said his Socceroo teams would lose possession, then take 5 mins to win it back. He maintained all of his teammates would agree. Only former Socceroos who have not been present at these Football Australia National Conferences, via the media, posit the view that we should have an eclectic style. Robbie Slater even went as far to say he advocated not adopting Dutch methodology. I responded to one of his articles, about all the structural and tactical facets of play, that have been integral for the Socceroos to qualify for any World Cup since, and including, 2006. It is only the current players, recently retired players, or former Socceroos who have undertaken the coaching pathway, who are familiar with the new methodology. Without it, we wouldn't have qualified for the last 5 World Cups.
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bohemia
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+x+x+xAnother terrific facet for this WC is that our experienced players, who may have been going backwards a bit in the last few years, or stagnating, really lifted for the Qatar World Cup. They played their best ever football and provided onfield leadership. Behich ( apart from lack of discipline after his Messi spat), Irvine, Mooy and Leckie, played their greatest football for Australia in Qatar. Moreover, although only being selected for the Socceroos in recent times, and playing international football late in their careers, Goodwin and Duke were also outstanding. Both exhibited game sense in spades, particularly Goodwin. Wouldn't say that was Irvine or mooys greatest football for us. Over this WC, I've never seen them play better in their career for the Socceroos. Even if anyone disagrees, the results over the last 4 games tend to substantiate my view. Qatar has been our best World Cup ever. I've watched all WCQers, Asian Cup Qers, plus World Cup tournament games and Asian Cup tournament games that Socceroos have been involved in. I've seen a few stats, where Mooy is Qatar WC leader in intercepts and breaking up attacks in the DM in the entire tournament. I was quite surprised. In some sort of off shoot from the BBC,I think, where fans select their best team from all countries playing in the tournament, ( fans, often not having vast knowledge), Ryan, Souttar and Mooy have been selected in a best WC eleven. Yet Messi and Mbappe were not selected!!!!! Assessing their contribution to the whole is the way to go here. Mooy looked buggered and was throwing fresh air boots in the France match early on, but had an immense 25 minutes later. Later matches, he did so many things that you wouldn't notice individually, but it was part of the most cohesive team effort I have seen in years from the boys. I'll never stop being proud of this team.
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Decentric 2
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+x+xAnother terrific facet for this WC is that our experienced players, who may have been going backwards a bit in the last few years, or stagnating, really lifted for the Qatar World Cup. They played their best ever football and provided onfield leadership. Behich ( apart from lack of discipline after his Messi spat), Irvine, Mooy and Leckie, played their greatest football for Australia in Qatar. Moreover, although only being selected for the Socceroos in recent times, and playing international football late in their careers, Goodwin and Duke were also outstanding. Both exhibited game sense in spades, particularly Goodwin. Wouldn't say that was Irvine or mooys greatest football for us. Over this WC, I've never seen them play better in their career for the Socceroos. Even if anyone disagrees, the results over the last 4 games tend to substantiate my view. Qatar has been our best World Cup ever. I've watched all WCQers, Asian Cup Qers, plus World Cup tournament games and Asian Cup tournament games that Socceroos have been involved in. I've seen a few stats, where Mooy is Qatar WC leader in intercepts and breaking up attacks in the DM in the entire tournament. I was quite surprised. In some sort of off shoot from the BBC,I think, where fans select their best team from all countries playing in the tournament, ( fans, often not having vast knowledge), Ryan, Souttar and Mooy have been selected in a best WC eleven. Yet Messi and Mbappe were not selected!!!!!
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xCan't fault the effort of the players, all tournament. Left it all out there in every game. Arnold got his tactics right too- Cede possession (because the players can't keep it even if they tried), and play on the counter. Craig Foster praised everyone and said we would learn from this. Judging by the comments here we've reset our football development expectations, away from possession football and playing out from the back to absorbing pressure and counter-attacking. Not sure what else we learned that we didn't already know. Excellent results though. I'm not so sure about this. I think many on here want Australia to aspire to dominate games with the ball.
For the first time in a while, I have seen us play to our strengths. We played with a sense of realism. Hopefully our strengths in the future will be a squad full of technical players coupled with the mentality we've showed this WC. Well if that's true, they're not saying so. Yes Arnold did play to our strength, our mentality. He did what he had to with the cattle he had. Always said he is a better fit as a NT coach than Postecoglou who forces players into a game style rather than the fitting the game to the players. I'm less hopeful of having a squad full of technical players- 15 years of being promised it and ending up with possession in the 20's and long balls in the box in 2022. Wanting us to when we have developed the talent underneath is not the same as expecting these particular guys to do it vs Argentina I’m a knock out game.
So much needs to happen in the country to be ready for that and none of that can happen in the once every 4 year showpiece.
You must know this We set out do develop the talent 15 years ago. We've ended up with 42% possession against Tunisia, 31% against Denmark. These are teams we should be matching control of the ball. ( ignore France and Argentina) We are doing something wrong. Every Argentinian player is better on the ball than every Socceroo. Why is this? It is not because of the way we structure youth teams or competitions. It’s because of what we value in young individual players and how we coach their individual skills. To provide some context. Every Argentinian, or Brazilian, is possibly better on the all than every player in any of the UEFA powerhouses too. Maybe France and Spain are closer to them, but they are far better with close ball control than their domestic playing counterparts in the English, Italian and German leagues. Besides football being a religion in Argentina and Brazil , they also have a massive street football culture in these countries. Another facet of play compared to what I've recently identified as a problem in most UEFA teams, is that they select far too many tall players in any given team, apart from Portugal and Spain, and maybe the Netherlands. Argentina's shorter players with a lower centre of gravity, are more nimble on their feet, able to change direction more quickly, and can turn more quickly. Ditto Brazil. Two facets of first touch are to stop it dead, and , to turn away from the opponent as one simultaneously receives the ball. At least we select shorter players like Behich, Kuol and Maclaren. In a country like Australia where football is at best the 5th most popular sport behind AFL, league, union and cricket, we lose a much larger percentage of talented sportspersons to theses codes than nearly every other country in the World Cup. Plus there is virtually no money for youth devotement, because AFL takes most of the financial resources, trying to improve the standard for a sport nobody else plays the world. Governments also put a lot money into Olympic sports too. Apologies to residents of NSW and the ACT. You probably have no idea how AFL enjoys its hegemony in the southern states that it does. Queensland is becoming an AFL state. No need to compare us to Sotuh America and EUFA. The Africans have a better first touch. The Saudi's have a better first touch. The Iranians have a better first touch. The Koreans and Japanese do as well. Why is it so hard for Australian players to develop a good first touch? In all the football conferences I've attended there are four specific football performance criteria that affect outcomes on the pitch . 1. Technique. 2. Insight ( game sense). 3. Communication. 4. Specific football conditioning. 5. I'm going to add mental strength. Technique takes a long time to develop and is most important, because it can't be rectified in an adult's mid stage and late stage football career. However, 2, 3, 4 and 5, can also be improved quickly as an adult player and if all are superior to 1, they can counterbalance it in terms of football outcomes in matches. Agree though that the Africans have a quality technique, as do Japan and South Korea, but in terms of specific performance criteria of football that affect football results , Australia is very competitive in global terms in football specific game criteria 2, 3 4 and 5. I'm quoting the aforementioned, because there have been a number of observations about most of our players being inferior technically - first touch, handling speed, 1v1 evasion skills, being able to play with both sides of the body, running with the ball - compared to our opponents. I agree. It is mainly true, but some Socceroos have pretty good technique in these facets of play - Mooy, Hrustic and Behich. We can also count Tom Rogic, if he hasn't retired. I haven't seen enough of him, but Kuol might a decent technician too? However, in the other football specific match attributes of a player, Mooy and Behich are pretty good with 2, 3, 4 and 5 as well. Rogic is excellent in 2, but I'm not sure about 3, 4 and 5? Whereas Hrustic really lacks in 2, and possibly 3? I'm not sure about 5? Pertinently, may of our opponents, who are superb in attribute 1, technique , are not always good in all attributes 2, 3, 4 and 5, as well.
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Bunch of Hacks
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+xAnother terrific facet for this WC is that our experienced players, who may have been going backwards a bit in the last few years, or stagnating, really lifted for the Qatar World Cup. They played their best ever football and provided onfield leadership. Behich ( apart from lack of discipline after his Messi spat), Irvine, Mooy and Leckie, played their greatest football for Australia in Qatar. Moreover, although only being selected for the Socceroos in recent times, and playing international football late in their careers, Goodwin and Duke were also outstanding. Both exhibited game sense in spades, particularly Goodwin. Wouldn't say that was Irvine or mooys greatest football for us.
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NicCarBel
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xCan't fault the effort of the players, all tournament. Left it all out there in every game. Arnold got his tactics right too- Cede possession (because the players can't keep it even if they tried), and play on the counter. Craig Foster praised everyone and said we would learn from this. Judging by the comments here we've reset our football development expectations, away from possession football and playing out from the back to absorbing pressure and counter-attacking. Not sure what else we learned that we didn't already know. Excellent results though. I'm not so sure about this. I think many on here want Australia to aspire to dominate games with the ball.
For the first time in a while, I have seen us play to our strengths. We played with a sense of realism. Hopefully our strengths in the future will be a squad full of technical players coupled with the mentality we've showed this WC. Well if that's true, they're not saying so. Yes Arnold did play to our strength, our mentality. He did what he had to with the cattle he had. Always said he is a better fit as a NT coach than Postecoglou who forces players into a game style rather than the fitting the game to the players. I'm less hopeful of having a squad full of technical players- 15 years of being promised it and ending up with possession in the 20's and long balls in the box in 2022. Wanting us to when we have developed the talent underneath is not the same as expecting these particular guys to do it vs Argentina I’m a knock out game.
So much needs to happen in the country to be ready for that and none of that can happen in the once every 4 year showpiece.
You must know this We set out do develop the talent 15 years ago. We've ended up with 42% possession against Tunisia, 31% against Denmark. These are teams we should be matching control of the ball. ( ignore France and Argentina) We are doing something wrong. Every Argentinian player is better on the ball than every Socceroo. Why is this? It is not because of the way we structure youth teams or competitions. It’s because of what we value in young individual players and how we coach their individual skills. Apologies to residents of NSW and the ACT. You probably have no idea how AFL enjoys its hegemony in the southern states that it does. Queensland is becoming an AFL state. We see it at times in the ACT. But I think its a bit of "well, you don't give us anything, so why should we?" Some of what I'm talking about is: * No new Canberra stadium / upgrade (No A-League team - Although they are building a "Home of Football" in the city's north [which is now in doubt because there was no funding for it in October's Federal Budget.. I wonder if that will change]) * Didn't put hand up to host games for the WWC (probably due to the former) * Put hand up for 2015 Asian Cup hosting duties, but apparently wasn't that much in support, given that Canberra eventually, once the draw was all finalised, was the only host city that could not have a chance of hosting Australian games. In addition, a lot was thrown to host 3 regular season AFL games (+1 pre season I believe), so that 'CANBERRA' can be printed on the back of the GWS shirts. Although, the lack of trying to host major events does come across in other sports, such as Cricket (seen by Canberra also not hosting games in the recent World Cup here)
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xCan't fault the effort of the players, all tournament. Left it all out there in every game. Arnold got his tactics right too- Cede possession (because the players can't keep it even if they tried), and play on the counter. Craig Foster praised everyone and said we would learn from this. Judging by the comments here we've reset our football development expectations, away from possession football and playing out from the back to absorbing pressure and counter-attacking. Not sure what else we learned that we didn't already know. Excellent results though. I'm not so sure about this. I think many on here want Australia to aspire to dominate games with the ball.
For the first time in a while, I have seen us play to our strengths. We played with a sense of realism. Hopefully our strengths in the future will be a squad full of technical players coupled with the mentality we've showed this WC. Well if that's true, they're not saying so. Yes Arnold did play to our strength, our mentality. He did what he had to with the cattle he had. Always said he is a better fit as a NT coach than Postecoglou who forces players into a game style rather than the fitting the game to the players. I'm less hopeful of having a squad full of technical players- 15 years of being promised it and ending up with possession in the 20's and long balls in the box in 2022. Wanting us to when we have developed the talent underneath is not the same as expecting these particular guys to do it vs Argentina I’m a knock out game.
So much needs to happen in the country to be ready for that and none of that can happen in the once every 4 year showpiece.
You must know this We set out do develop the talent 15 years ago. We've ended up with 42% possession against Tunisia, 31% against Denmark. These are teams we should be matching control of the ball. ( ignore France and Argentina) We are doing something wrong. Every Argentinian player is better on the ball than every Socceroo. Why is this? It is not because of the way we structure youth teams or competitions. It’s because of what we value in young individual players and how we coach their individual skills. To provide some context. Every Argentinian, or Brazilian, is possibly better on the ball than every player in any of the UEFA powerhouse international teams too. Maybe France and Spain are closer to them, but they are far better with close ball control than their domestic playing counterparts in the English, Italian and German leagues. Besides football being a religion in Argentina and Brazil , they also have a massive street football culture in these countries. I agree with everything you say. But seriously, how do you explain every other country (pretty much) having better skills than us. It’s no coincidence that possibly our most skilful player of the past 15 years had a background in Futsal. It’s just frustrating that if we could just improve the individual skills side by 20%, our strength and grit could be the descriminator in games like this.
Meanwhile, we are focused on whether our youth team should play 4-3-3 or 3-5-1-1 or whatever formation is this year’s fashion.
Make the individual players better and the rest will follow. The football boffins in Australia thought that from following the UEFA world powerhouses, that 4-3-3 and its variations was the best formation to create technical players. The tenet that it is predicated on, is that there are triangles and diamonds inherent in the variations of this formation. France, Spain, Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium and Germany 4-2-3-1, use it as the development formation for youth. Finally, another premise is that if one learns to play the 4-3-3 variations, which is difficult with the inherent triangles, it is easier to play formations that are not 4-3-3.
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Decentric 2
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xCan't fault the effort of the players, all tournament. Left it all out there in every game. Arnold got his tactics right too- Cede possession (because the players can't keep it even if they tried), and play on the counter. Craig Foster praised everyone and said we would learn from this. Judging by the comments here we've reset our football development expectations, away from possession football and playing out from the back to absorbing pressure and counter-attacking. Not sure what else we learned that we didn't already know. Excellent results though. I'm not so sure about this. I think many on here want Australia to aspire to dominate games with the ball.
For the first time in a while, I have seen us play to our strengths. We played with a sense of realism. Hopefully our strengths in the future will be a squad full of technical players coupled with the mentality we've showed this WC. Well if that's true, they're not saying so. Yes Arnold did play to our strength, our mentality. He did what he had to with the cattle he had. Always said he is a better fit as a NT coach than Postecoglou who forces players into a game style rather than the fitting the game to the players. I'm less hopeful of having a squad full of technical players- 15 years of being promised it and ending up with possession in the 20's and long balls in the box in 2022. Wanting us to when we have developed the talent underneath is not the same as expecting these particular guys to do it vs Argentina I’m a knock out game.
So much needs to happen in the country to be ready for that and none of that can happen in the once every 4 year showpiece.
You must know this We set out do develop the talent 15 years ago. We've ended up with 42% possession against Tunisia, 31% against Denmark. These are teams we should be matching control of the ball. ( ignore France and Argentina) Don't get me wrong- I agree with how Arnold did it, given the players he had to play with. Foster said:" We should learn from this". What will we learn that we didn't know? I'm not talking about posters on here, but I reckon the average socceroos fan would not understand the true failing of the socceroos as you are attempting to describe. Our good WC performance, in fact, the best one in the history of the socceroos, does tend to paper over these obvious issues to do with touch, ball control in tight areas, working your way out of trouble with quick, deft one touch passing, etc. The top teams have it and the socceroos don't. In part, it's because we don't have players playing week in week out in the world's top leagues. You can't get this high level of playing unless the players are subject to it day to day. It needs to be developed at an early age. If you don't have it as a young adult, one can only improve at a slow rate compared to those skills acquired at an earlier age. It doesn't matter which league one plays in. The less skilful players in those top leagues , who compensate in other areas for their lack of skill (speed, stamina, strength , game sense), only improve slowly as a on the ball technician. Whereas tactically, players can improve very, very quickly as an adult. Ditto in football conditioning and communication. Even when we had lots of players playing in good leagues, the players who played in them were usually less skilful on the ball than the average players in those leagues. The more skilful Socceroos were the exception not the norm. Kewell himself is angry about the affair and told The Sun-Herald:
"I learnt the most by playing in the backyard or at the local park with my brother Rod and my mates."Hitting a ball up against a wall for hours on end with different parts of my foot, juggling a soft drink can up against the backyard fence, that is what it's all about.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/kewell-in-row-over-coaching-20030928-gdhh5t.html
I remember reading this article back in the day.
Coerver is a complete scam although I think Emerton may have spent some time there?
In any event, Kewell is arguably our most technically gifted player that we have produced and it's clear by his own admission that time with the ball at his feet > anything else. I know one of the Skills Acquisition Program state co-ordinators, who was also a National Curriculum writer. He claimed that any players who had had Coerver training, were usually recognised at the best technicians, but it didn't develop game sense as well. The then head of Coerver in Aus, told me that Tom Rogic was a Coerver graduate. There were a number of other players too, but I've forgotten which ones. SAP has been ostensibly been designed to improve technique, like Coerver, but to develop game sense as well. Years ago when in Australia conducting coach education for the A League coaches, the Dutch KNVB staff coaches said that Wiel Coerver and the KNVB were reconciling.
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Decentric 2
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xCan't fault the effort of the players, all tournament. Left it all out there in every game. Arnold got his tactics right too- Cede possession (because the players can't keep it even if they tried), and play on the counter. Craig Foster praised everyone and said we would learn from this. Judging by the comments here we've reset our football development expectations, away from possession football and playing out from the back to absorbing pressure and counter-attacking. Not sure what else we learned that we didn't already know. Excellent results though. I'm not so sure about this. I think many on here want Australia to aspire to dominate games with the ball.
For the first time in a while, I have seen us play to our strengths. We played with a sense of realism. Hopefully our strengths in the future will be a squad full of technical players coupled with the mentality we've showed this WC. Well if that's true, they're not saying so. Yes Arnold did play to our strength, our mentality. He did what he had to with the cattle he had. Always said he is a better fit as a NT coach than Postecoglou who forces players into a game style rather than the fitting the game to the players. I'm less hopeful of having a squad full of technical players- 15 years of being promised it and ending up with possession in the 20's and long balls in the box in 2022. Wanting us to when we have developed the talent underneath is not the same as expecting these particular guys to do it vs Argentina I’m a knock out game.
So much needs to happen in the country to be ready for that and none of that can happen in the once every 4 year showpiece.
You must know this We set out do develop the talent 15 years ago. We've ended up with 42% possession against Tunisia, 31% against Denmark. These are teams we should be matching control of the ball. ( ignore France and Argentina) We are doing something wrong. Every Argentinian player is better on the ball than every Socceroo. Why is this? It is not because of the way we structure youth teams or competitions. It’s because of what we value in young individual players and how we coach their individual skills. To provide some context. Every Argentinian, or Brazilian, is possibly better on the ball than every player in any of the UEFA powerhouse international teams too. Maybe France and Spain are closer to them, but they are far better with close ball control than their domestic playing counterparts in the English, Italian and German leagues. Besides football being a religion in Argentina and Brazil , they also have a massive street football culture in these countries. Another facet of play compared to what I've recently identified as a problem in most UEFA teams, is that they select far too many tall players in any given team, apart from Portugal and Spain, and maybe the Netherlands. Argentina's shorter players with a lower centre of gravity, are more nimble on their feet, able to change direction more quickly, and can turn more quickly. Ditto Brazil. Two facets of first touch are to stop it dead, and , to turn away from the opponent as one simultaneously receives the ball. At least we select shorter players like Behich, Kuol and Maclaren. In a country like Australia where football is at best the 5th most popular sport behind AFL, league, union and cricket, we lose a much larger percentage of talented sportspersons to theses codes than nearly every other country in the World Cup. Plus there is virtually no money for youth development, because AFL takes most of the financial resources, trying to improve the standard for a sport nobody else plays in the world. Governments also put a lot money into Olympic sports too. Apologies to residents of NSW and the ACT. You probably have no idea how AFL enjoys its hegemony in the southern states that it does. Queensland is becoming an AFL state. Incorrect, the aim of the first touch is not to stop it dead, it is so that the ball is left in the correct position so that your second touch is effective. This generally means your first touch takes the ball slightly away from you in the direction you want to go. If you stop it dead, the ball will be too close to your body normally and you will need another touch to get the ball into position to move it in your desired direction. It is good to be able to do both in practice, but in a game, it is usually preferable to take it away from an opponent. Also, if one receives with the outside of the foot, one's body shape tends to create a slight feint, which can wrong foot one's opposition marker.
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Decentric 2
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+xWould love to see stats on how far Duke team last night. Geez he puts in. Leckie too for that matter. An amazing defensive player in the attacking third. Ditto Leckie - and Goodwin.
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Keeper66
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xCan't fault the effort of the players, all tournament. Left it all out there in every game. Arnold got his tactics right too- Cede possession (because the players can't keep it even if they tried), and play on the counter. Craig Foster praised everyone and said we would learn from this. Judging by the comments here we've reset our football development expectations, away from possession football and playing out from the back to absorbing pressure and counter-attacking. Not sure what else we learned that we didn't already know. Excellent results though. I'm not so sure about this. I think many on here want Australia to aspire to dominate games with the ball.
For the first time in a while, I have seen us play to our strengths. We played with a sense of realism. Hopefully our strengths in the future will be a squad full of technical players coupled with the mentality we've showed this WC. Well if that's true, they're not saying so. Yes Arnold did play to our strength, our mentality. He did what he had to with the cattle he had. Always said he is a better fit as a NT coach than Postecoglou who forces players into a game style rather than the fitting the game to the players. I'm less hopeful of having a squad full of technical players- 15 years of being promised it and ending up with possession in the 20's and long balls in the box in 2022. Wanting us to when we have developed the talent underneath is not the same as expecting these particular guys to do it vs Argentina I’m a knock out game.
So much needs to happen in the country to be ready for that and none of that can happen in the once every 4 year showpiece.
You must know this We set out do develop the talent 15 years ago. We've ended up with 42% possession against Tunisia, 31% against Denmark. These are teams we should be matching control of the ball. ( ignore France and Argentina) We are doing something wrong. Every Argentinian player is better on the ball than every Socceroo. Why is this? It is not because of the way we structure youth teams or competitions. It’s because of what we value in young individual players and how we coach their individual skills. To provide some context. Every Argentinian, or Brazilian, is possibly better on the ball than every player in any of the UEFA powerhouse international teams too. Maybe France and Spain are closer to them, but they are far better with close ball control than their domestic playing counterparts in the English, Italian and German leagues. Besides football being a religion in Argentina and Brazil , they also have a massive street football culture in these countries. Another facet of play compared to what I've recently identified as a problem in most UEFA teams, is that they select far too many tall players in any given team, apart from Portugal and Spain, and maybe the Netherlands. Argentina's shorter players with a lower centre of gravity, are more nimble on their feet, able to change direction more quickly, and can turn more quickly. Ditto Brazil. Two facets of first touch are to stop it dead, and , to turn away from the opponent as one simultaneously receives the ball. At least we select shorter players like Behich, Kuol and Maclaren. In a country like Australia where football is at best the 5th most popular sport behind AFL, league, union and cricket, we lose a much larger percentage of talented sportspersons to theses codes than nearly every other country in the World Cup. Plus there is virtually no money for youth development, because AFL takes most of the financial resources, trying to improve the standard for a sport nobody else plays in the world. Governments also put a lot money into Olympic sports too. Apologies to residents of NSW and the ACT. You probably have no idea how AFL enjoys its hegemony in the southern states that it does. Queensland is becoming an AFL state. Incorrect, the aim of the first touch is not to stop it dead, it is so that the ball is left in the correct position so that your second touch is effective. This generally means your first touch takes the ball slightly away from you in the direction you want to go. If you stop it dead, the ball will be too close to your body normally and you will need another touch to get the ball into position to move it in your desired direction.
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Decentric 2
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+x+x+x+x+xHrustic is going to be an interesting one. Very temperamental. Talented. Definitely not a defensive midfielder. I guess I'd rather have him barking at the others if it leads to zero tolerance for shit play but you've got to have the expectations set. The team were so highly motivated. Behich was screaming for the ball when Goodwin put the cross in but thankfully it got through to Kuol. We've got to be better when we concede. The majority of players go off in their little world for a minute. Immediate heads down. They clearly didn't learn from the France game to stop stuffing around with it at the back. Hrustic hasn't earned the right to bark at his teammates. It's one thing to make sure the players are following the coaches orders, it's another to belittle your teammates because you think you should be running the plays. The fact is Hrustic hasn't done anything in his career thus far to demand that the team is built around him or at least the final 3rd. I do hope that he kicks on in the Serie A, but I think it's likely (given he's 26) that he becomes an important utility player for us and a possible replacement for Mooy. I find the sideline and celebration footage very telling. Of course we were all in teams where a moment on camera looked like we were ignoring someone or didn't seem overjoyed but you can also see which players truly support each other.
Which footage are you referring to? Was Hrustic ignored or did he do the ignoring? I still have high hopes for him coming good, but I wasn’t a fan of his attitude today. Then again, surely Arnie wouldn’t have taken him if he didn’t get along with the group or was a destabilising influence. I'm really glad how Degenek has come back. The number of players who are a bit older and may not get picked all the time, are mature enough to also come into the squad when needed. Degenek was solid defensively at RB. I think his experience would have been invaluable too, as there were two inexperienced Aussie CBs. One has to know one's own game well in order to be able to organise others. A few times in the second half when he received the ball in more attacking positions, I wish it had been Atkinson instead, who is a more attacking player.
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Muz
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+x+xDid anyone else here see the tweet going around by some journalist (can't recall who exactly) that VAR had to check for a handball after the Kuol shot at the end, that an Argentine player handled the ball while on top of the keeper after he made the save. That would've been controversial. Yep I can see why. They hug him and the hands are close to the ball. What's the rule there? Keeper has ball and outfield players lands on him and for any reason the hand contacts the ball. If only the defender had caught it like the Equatorial Guinea defender against the Matildas. Not sure of the rule but I can't see that ever being given. That bloke must have been taking the piss. Keeper has control then keeper has control. Sure if he let go of it that's be another matter
Member since 2008.
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