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@ Mid A Top league to this day is looked over by its overall competing in the CL/Europa to many in the game. Having your own measuring stick is typical USA, they class themselves world champs in baseball over many years for eg. MLS will do the same as any of their other sports. It will be successful in their own right but not sure how they will gain ranking without competing against Euro Clubs. The Club WC possibly they will be entered in the future ? who knows. Here's some info mentioning 36 players at the WC for matter of interest and discussion. Qatar WC by League, MLS below, 36 yes, quantity is one thing QUALITY is main thing missing there, minnows Qatar,Saudi and LigaMX right on their heals. Importantly combine EPL and EFL totals 162 players, Quality. Hence why old/er players like Zlatan and more so Messi coming up carves em up to this day. You only had to watch the Roos game last night to see the class difference and Messi's opening goal build up in record time. MLS its all about the $$$$'s thats the merican way - yep it will grow, it may get up to 200 players in future WC's but will it get the respect ? I think I'll be 6' under by then. Look where the bulk below play. Kudos to them in any case.. | Club | Number of players | Name of players | | Charlotte FC | 1 | Karol Swiderski (Poland) | | Chicago Fire | 1 | Xherdan Shaqiri (Switzerland) | | FC Cincinnati | 1 | Ronald Matarrita (Costa Rica) | | Colorado Rapids | 1 | Daniel Chacon (Costa Rica) | | Columbus Crew | 1 | Milos Degenek (Australia) | | FC Dallas | 1 | Jesus Ferreira (USA) | | Houston Dynamo | 1 | Hector Herrera (Mexico) | | LAFC | 6 | Jose Cifuentes (Ecuador)
Sebastian Mendez (Ecuador)
Diego Palacios (Ecuador)
Kellyn Acosta (USA)
Gareth Bale (Wales) | | LA Galaxy | 1 | Martin Caceres (Uruguay) | | Inter Miami | 1 | DeAndre Yedlin (USA) | | Minnesota United | 1 | Dayne St Clair (Canada) | | CF Montreal | 6 | Alistair Johnston (Canada)
Ismael Kone (Canada)
Kamal Miller (Canada)
James Pantemis (Canada)
Samuel Piette (Canada)
Joel Waterman (Canada) | | Nashville SC | 1 | Shaq Moore (USA)
Walker Zimmerman (USA) | | New York City | 1 | Sean Johnson (USA) | | New York Red Bulls | 1 | Aaron Long (USA) | | Orlando City | 1 | Facundo Torres (Uruguay) | | Philadelphia Union | 1 | Olivier Mbaizo (Cameroon) | | Real Salt Lake | 1 | Bryan Oviedo (Costa Rica) | | Seattle Sounders | 4 | Nouhou Tolo (Cameroon)
Xavier Arreaga (Ecuador)
Jordan Morris (USA)
Cristian Roldan (USA) | | Toronto FC | 3 | Mark-Anthony Kaye (Canada)
Richie Laryea (Canada)
Jonathan Osorio (Canada) | | Vancouver Whitecaps | 1 | Lucas Cavallini (Canada) |
By Leagues Qatar | League | Country | Number of players | | Premier League | England | 136 | | La Liga | Spain | 83 | | Bundesliga | Germany | 75 | | Serie A | Italy | 68 | | Ligue 1 | France | 54 | | MLS | USA | 36 | | Saudi Pro League | Saudi Arabia | 33 | | Qatar Stars League | Qatar | 33 | | EFL Championship | England | 26 | | Liga MX | Mexico | 23
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Davstar
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+x+xthey have 331 MILLION PEOPLE Canada also has 3 MLS teams and has a population of 40m THUS The MLS is exposed to 371m people they literally ONLY need 1 percent of the population to follow the league and they have 3.71 million supporters keep in mind Mexico have a popualtion of 128m people and due to a number of mexicans playing in the MLS, a fair number of them too would follow the league..... -------------------------------------------- on the flip side the Australia and NZ wouldnt have a population greater then 28 millions we would need 15 percent of the population to support the league those kind of numbers the fact the MLS is still a 'fairly shit' league if anything amazes me [not to the extent of China but pretty close] credit where it is due the USA has come 'leaps' and 'bounds' i think the globalisation of the EPL has made football more popular all over the world - but the MLS model does not work in Australia simply put we dont have football mad nations like Mexico to boost support next to us if anything NZ has been more of a 'hand break' on the league then a help i actually think Domestic football has dropped in popularity in Australia a lot the AL has become a running joke and the clubs are mostly souless - the NSL was a dumpster fire of social issues but the clubs at least had a sense of community and support [stemming from grass roots] ill give CCM credit the community seem to really get behind them but the majority of clubs esp the new clubs seems to have no supporters WU and Bulls - even older clubs like the Nix no one gives a single fuk about i have sort of 'given up' on the AL and the idea of a proferssional football league here until we hit a population of 40-50m i just dont see it working - esp when the whole 'women need to be paid more bullshit' - id rather go back to a semi pro formate with more clubs and p/r - the current model is shit China and India together have over 3 billion people dude...... India is a useless country at almost every sport bar cricket...not really an example China actually has a 'fairly successful' league - it just has not resulted in a 'strong national team' - they have 2 decent tiers the 1st division and 2nd division has 16 teams each the CSL averages around the same amount of people as the french Ligue 1 23k spectators [ France has arguably the 5th best league in the world] Russia have around 200m people [pre-war] had clubs that were competitive in the Europa league even UCL but their national team was 'never spectacular' but their league has always been fairly solid - Turkey is another example Having a successful league and having a successful national team - do not always 'go hand in hand' Croatia has an 'average' league with average a few 1000 spectators but sell the best players for big transfers - there national team has been in the top 10 in the world for almost a decade now.
these Kangaroos can play football -
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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Midfielder
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LFC
Good question pertaining to what makes a top ten league.
MLS has its own for better or worst measuring stick... they want to by the 2030 WC to have the most players in the WC of any competition playing in MLS.... last WC I think 36 players and if you exclude US players thats 13 non USA players in there league...
Question about Mexican fans... they mostly want Mexican's leaving in the USA to start watching... at the moment the Mexican league has a tad over 50% greater TV ratings than the MLS. inside the US.. the big effect will be Annual Club Cup competition between all MLS & Legia MX clubs.
Look, I am not trying to preach the virtues of the MLS... I am simply saying from deaths door they worked their way out and today are very successful.... I don't like their set up however you can't stick your head in the sand and ignore it .... thats foolish also....
As an aside six months ago I felt the same about the MLS....
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LFC.
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+xTwo points. Point 1, whether we like it or not the MLS is growing and the revenue they are now getting and the expected increases will mean over time they will become in IMO a top 10 league. Point 2, I have never suggested we follow the MLS model, for starters no one in Australia is going to build stadiums.... but a large part of their success is the decision making model that looks to see how there fans and future fans will react... Mid, don't take me totally wrong being against everything you say about the MLS's growth for sure its for all to see, I just like to provide my input to some points you bring up and its outlook by other countries around the football world from reading alot and having colleagues in alot of countries incl Mexico for eg. Your P1, yes as mentioned it is growing in the US, glad the game is against all those other meh sports they are into and not surprising with the $$$ resource available. Lets wait and see if and when they get to the level of being a Top 10 league...... What ranks being a Top 10 league ? $$$ revenue, x amount of players moving to other Top 5 leagues ? How do you rank a US Club with no involvement in CL or Europa ? can't be by the WCup. Where will they be judged to be a Top 10 candidate ? All of this will take sometime before any global result will be achieved no. P2, thats the M$ question here, when will the FA let alone APL listen to their fan base ? there have been countless surveys done in the past and I presume present ??? Their trouble is is not being "transparent" since Adam was a kid, Lowys AL Clubs used to have fan forums, nothing much occured out those might I add for out of interest I did attend 2 at SFC long ago. What has come out of it - ziltch, what has the new FA done ? putting the NST aside where is the reach felt down to grass roots and the countless registrated players for fan feedback. Its obvious alot needs to change to get any positive movement to occur be it picking out some of the suitable MLS fan directive stratergies that could work well here. IMO we need is a tuff true football loving adminstrater who sticks his or her neck out smashing down alot of the politcal barriers and in turn gain connect top to bottom. Bring us together once and for all, we have too many people for and against P/R due to politcs and noise costs, we can't do this can't do that you see it here. Don't promise the world of football will perfect here with bubble and squeak just get supporters together, State and Clubs aligned with one main direction amaongst other objectives for starters....... Expectations are too high and set OTT by AL originally, sure going Pro was very much needed and I appreciate that but huge stadiums, etcetc gtfo we're a bloody minnow with 27M people where most are on the East Coast and why are we trying to match what other 3 main codes are financially. Its dreaming. Football is simple, starts from the ground, its about the contest on the pitch not about being at the G or SFS and all these other huge joints. Where is the basic logic about all this in the first place looking at it from a football perspective not a business. The basic football at smaller venues packed, brings in sponsers at more managable price points. We're trying to play in the huge corporate game landscape but don't have the supporters to feed it that are divided, we are not USA with its copious amounts of population and countries close enough beneath to feed from. By the way re the MLS and broadcasting in varying languages, yes another good move and should do due to as mentioned the size of target and interest, mostly for the hispanics/Mex's Living in the USA. I tell you right now having done business in Mex for a number of years and frequent 2/3 times a year, they the locals down there dislike the mericans with a passion. I'll be there again in Oct even though I have weekly conference calls but I'll ask many who I know follow their football will they be watching the MLS ? I highy doubt it.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xDev You said..."""" keep in mind Mexico have a popualtion of 128m people and due to a number of mexicans playing in the MLS, a fair number of them too would follow the league""".....
They don't, the Mexican folk mostly watch Legia MX or the Mexican league... heaps of reasons, lack of respect for MLS having no P & R.... broadcast in English, loyalty to the old country etc..... If and its a big big big IF.... but IF the MLS suits can get the Mexican folk and other people from central and south America to watch MLS.... the growth especially in revenue will be huge... and revenue over time buys players and coaches.... Mid, I would hazard more Mexicans will be watching MLS next year than "Muricans. And Asians and Africans etc etc...... In fact the MLS is banking on it ... there is your fan model.... their "fans" are interenational consumers they couldnt care less about the average American football fan. https://www.buzzfeed.com/watch/video/22933
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Midfielder
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Dev
You said...""""keep in mind Mexico have a popualtion of 128m people and due to a number of mexicans playing in the MLS, a fair number of them too would follow the league""".....
They don't, the Mexican folk mostly watch Legia MX or the Mexican league... heaps of reasons, lack of respect for MLS having no P & R.... broadcast in English, loyalty to the old country etc.....
If and its a big big big IF.... but IF the MLS suits can get the Mexican folk and other people from central and south America to watch MLS.... the growth especially in revenue will be huge... and revenue over time buys players and coaches....
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Midfielder
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Two points.
Point 1, whether we like it or not the MLS is growing and the revenue they are now getting and the expected increases will mean over time they will become in IMO a top 10 league.
Point 2, I have never suggested we follow the MLS model, for starters no one in Australia is going to build stadiums.... but a large part of their success is the decision making model that looks to see how there fans and future fans will react...
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xthey have 331 MILLION PEOPLE Canada also has 3 MLS teams and has a population of 40m THUS The MLS is exposed to 371m people they literally ONLY need 1 percent of the population to follow the league and they have 3.71 million supporters keep in mind Mexico have a popualtion of 128m people and due to a number of mexicans playing in the MLS, a fair number of them too would follow the league..... -------------------------------------------- on the flip side the Australia and NZ wouldnt have a population greater then 28 millions we would need 15 percent of the population to support the league those kind of numbers the fact the MLS is still a 'fairly shit' league if anything amazes me [not to the extent of China but pretty close] credit where it is due the USA has come 'leaps' and 'bounds' i think the globalisation of the EPL has made football more popular all over the world - but the MLS model does not work in Australia simply put we dont have football mad nations like Mexico to boost support next to us if anything NZ has been more of a 'hand break' on the league then a help i actually think Domestic football has dropped in popularity in Australia a lot the AL has become a running joke and the clubs are mostly souless - the NSL was a dumpster fire of social issues but the clubs at least had a sense of community and support [stemming from grass roots] ill give CCM credit the community seem to really get behind them but the majority of clubs esp the new clubs seems to have no supporters WU and Bulls - even older clubs like the Nix no one gives a single fuk about i have sort of 'given up' on the AL and the idea of a proferssional football league here until we hit a population of 40-50m i just dont see it working - esp when the whole 'women need to be paid more bullshit' - id rather go back to a semi pro formate with more clubs and p/r - the current model is shit China and India together have over 3 billion people dude......
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Davstar
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they have 331 MILLION PEOPLE Canada also has 3 MLS teams and has a population of 40m THUS The MLS is exposed to 371m people they literally ONLY need 1 percent of the population to follow the league and they have 3.71 million supporters keep in mind Mexico have a popualtion of 128m people and due to a number of mexicans playing in the MLS, a fair number of them too would follow the league..... -------------------------------------------- on the flip side the Australia and NZ wouldnt have a population greater then 28 millions we would need 15 percent of the population to support the league those kind of numbers the fact the MLS is still a 'fairly shit' league if anything amazes me [not to the extent of China but pretty close] credit where it is due the USA has come 'leaps' and 'bounds' i think the globalisation of the EPL has made football more popular all over the world - but the MLS model does not work in Australia simply put we dont have football mad nations like Mexico to boost support next to us if anything NZ has been more of a 'hand break' on the league then a help i actually think Domestic football has dropped in popularity in Australia a lot the AL has become a running joke and the clubs are mostly souless - the NSL was a dumpster fire of social issues but the clubs at least had a sense of community and support [stemming from grass roots] ill give CCM credit the community seem to really get behind them but the majority of clubs esp the new clubs seems to have no supporters WU and Bulls - even older clubs like the Nix no one gives a single fuk about i have sort of 'given up' on the AL and the idea of a proferssional football league here until we hit a population of 40-50m i just dont see it working - esp when the whole 'women need to be paid more bullshit' - id rather go back to a semi pro formate with more clubs and p/r - the current model is shit
these Kangaroos can play football -
Ange P. (Intercontinental WC Play-offs 2017)
KEEP POLITICS OUT OF FOOTBALL
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+x+x+x+xBy now I guess everybody knows that Messie has gone to the MLS....
This along with the FIFA approved MLS V Liga MX or MLS V Mexico club competition over 70 games... The belief is this competition over time add hugely to its ratings by introducing fans inside the US to MlS teams see link... https://www.mlssoccer.com/leagues-cup-2023/
Already this year crowds are up on last seasons average by about 4%, and the second half of their season is normally when they get their best crowds ...
The hope repeat hope.... of the MLS V Liga MX and now Messie is that more people from Mexico in particular but also other central and south Americans start to watch MLS... and with Messie other Football nations...
Interesting, given when MLS is played it clashes with many other leagues, so people have a real choice on what they watch or what competition they watch... Currently it sits something like this,
Liga MX [Mexico} 32%
EPL 22%
MLS 20%
La Liga {Spain} 6%
Bundesliga 5%
Campeonato Brasileoro Serie A {Brazil} 4%
Serie A 3.5%
Primera Division [Argentina } 2%
Plus other leagues to make up 100%
If as expected they keep expanding their teams its become a defacto promotion system, with promotion based not on points earned from a competition more the metrics of stadium, fan base, TV reach, expected crowds, management system in place... in 2005 they had 10 teams... in the 18 years since they have added 19 teams and have just added a new 30th team..
By 2030, at current rates the MLS will become a major force in world Football... whether people like it or not... Thats awesome Mid, and Messi has been guaranteed a franchise license as part of his contract like Beckham. Perhaps they can create an AC Miami to create a derby for Inter? I CAN see the MLS and Saudi leagues joining UEFA Champions league soon though... Money is awesome.... I can't see that, I see them differently... the MLS is following a US sports model used by all major codes in the US... its just they are very clever in how they manage revenue flows.... and its been almost 30 years in the development.... The Saudi worry me as they are spending crazy amounts... I see within five years a Man City V Newcastle Champion league finals as they these teams will have buying power unmatched by anyone... Further I see in the MLS, lots and lots and planning, engagement, and development.... in the process they have developed a large and loyal fan base.... and they have achieved this not only against other codes but often in direction competition with many of the worlds best Football leagues... imagine if you will Melbourne Victory up against Adelaide United... and then Man City V Liverpool, who would most watch... I know I keep banging about it... however MLS has a decision making model essentially centred around all key decisions are made with how their fans will react... very very very fan focused.... Football in Australia should do similar, not copy MLS but copy the decision making model... MLS expansion plans are to broadcast games in English, Spanish and French, the US / Mexico club cup... all of this was to engage non English speaking folk... and Messie is icing on the cake I guess... and there in lies its meh, good on them works for them for thats typical mericans just like ordering their food, their consumer demands for everything else might I add otherwise they don't shop for they all complain and complain. They are so spoilt its not funny. Its all shit and glitter otherwise the average one wouldn't bother. Go to any of their sports and its like going to a "fair" or "show" and commercialism OTT, the game is like a support act. Your right it works for them. A force yes (money), major no, to the general football supporter from EU and elsewhere till and when they produce alot more yanks who play in the main leagues regularly and earn the respect with results season in season out, thats talking "football" not about bubble and squeak merican $$$$ wise. I agree Australia should change a hell of alot especially for the supporters, think of them for once for we have been dudded for yonks. Change franchise football in time, be more understanding with supporters, (sure take some good points from your MLS) have far more open dialogue, answer the skeletons in the closet, clear the air with the olds clubs, set new agreed to boundaries for all to see importantly to the media and govern and stand up for the game and above all adhere to the set new standards otherwise in bold your out in black and white incl mis behaving supporters. Above all the above will set some bait for some of the fish who follows heaps of EU leagues (hello also to all you past Hoops/and now to be Spurs newbies) that far outweigh franchise models, is introduce P/R based on the East Coast till in time introducing WA/SA due to costs. It would be a rough ride originally but in time the bumps can be ironed out and move on with some of Mids good merican bubble and squeak bait.
Love Football
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
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+x+x+x+xBy now I guess everybody knows that Messie has gone to the MLS....
This along with the FIFA approved MLS V Liga MX or MLS V Mexico club competition over 70 games... The belief is this competition over time add hugely to its ratings by introducing fans inside the US to MlS teams see link... https://www.mlssoccer.com/leagues-cup-2023/
Already this year crowds are up on last seasons average by about 4%, and the second half of their season is normally when they get their best crowds ...
The hope repeat hope.... of the MLS V Liga MX and now Messie is that more people from Mexico in particular but also other central and south Americans start to watch MLS... and with Messie other Football nations...
Interesting, given when MLS is played it clashes with many other leagues, so people have a real choice on what they watch or what competition they watch... Currently it sits something like this,
Liga MX [Mexico} 32%
EPL 22%
MLS 20%
La Liga {Spain} 6%
Bundesliga 5%
Campeonato Brasileoro Serie A {Brazil} 4%
Serie A 3.5%
Primera Division [Argentina } 2%
Plus other leagues to make up 100%
If as expected they keep expanding their teams its become a defacto promotion system, with promotion based not on points earned from a competition more the metrics of stadium, fan base, TV reach, expected crowds, management system in place... in 2005 they had 10 teams... in the 18 years since they have added 19 teams and have just added a new 30th team..
By 2030, at current rates the MLS will become a major force in world Football... whether people like it or not... Thats awesome Mid, and Messi has been guaranteed a franchise license as part of his contract like Beckham. Perhaps they can create an AC Miami to create a derby for Inter? I CAN see the MLS and Saudi leagues joining UEFA Champions league soon though... Money is awesome.... I can't see that, I see them differently... the MLS is following a US sports model used by all major codes in the US... its just they are very clever in how they manage revenue flows.... and its been almost 30 years in the development.... The Saudi worry me as they are spending crazy amounts... I see within five years a Man City V Newcastle Champion league finals as they these teams will have buying power unmatched by anyone... Further I see in the MLS, lots and lots and planning, engagement, and development.... in the process they have developed a large and loyal fan base.... and they have achieved this not only against other codes but often in direction competition with many of the worlds best Football leagues... imagine if you will Melbourne Victory up against Adelaide United... and then Man City V Liverpool, who would most watch... I know I keep banging about it... however MLS has a decision making model essentially centred around all key decisions are made with how their fans will react... very very very fan focused.... Football in Australia should do similar, not copy MLS but copy the decision making model... MLS expansion plans are to broadcast games in English, Spanish and French, the US / Mexico club cup... all of this was to engage non English speaking folk... and Messie is icing on the cake I guess... If MLS plans to rival the other sports in the states mate they will, as you seem to predict, expand to the point where the rest of the world (Asia, Europe, Africa, Sth Amercia) pays attention to their comps and their clubs... as a stand alone (even with Mexico and Canada clubs) league it will never reach the heights their expansion requires to be a top league, thats why i believe their aim is to become "part" of the top flight so to speak ... as is what the middle east is doing... The new Club World Cup, in 20-30 years will eclipse Champions League .... in my opinion..... Thats what (it seems to me) all these other markets are gearing up for ... sad days ahead for world football Im afraid.
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Midfielder
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 4.7K,
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+x+x+xBy now I guess everybody knows that Messie has gone to the MLS....
This along with the FIFA approved MLS V Liga MX or MLS V Mexico club competition over 70 games... The belief is this competition over time add hugely to its ratings by introducing fans inside the US to MlS teams see link... https://www.mlssoccer.com/leagues-cup-2023/
Already this year crowds are up on last seasons average by about 4%, and the second half of their season is normally when they get their best crowds ...
The hope repeat hope.... of the MLS V Liga MX and now Messie is that more people from Mexico in particular but also other central and south Americans start to watch MLS... and with Messie other Football nations...
Interesting, given when MLS is played it clashes with many other leagues, so people have a real choice on what they watch or what competition they watch... Currently it sits something like this,
Liga MX [Mexico} 32%
EPL 22%
MLS 20%
La Liga {Spain} 6%
Bundesliga 5%
Campeonato Brasileoro Serie A {Brazil} 4%
Serie A 3.5%
Primera Division [Argentina } 2%
Plus other leagues to make up 100%
If as expected they keep expanding their teams its become a defacto promotion system, with promotion based not on points earned from a competition more the metrics of stadium, fan base, TV reach, expected crowds, management system in place... in 2005 they had 10 teams... in the 18 years since they have added 19 teams and have just added a new 30th team..
By 2030, at current rates the MLS will become a major force in world Football... whether people like it or not... Thats awesome Mid, and Messi has been guaranteed a franchise license as part of his contract like Beckham. Perhaps they can create an AC Miami to create a derby for Inter? I CAN see the MLS and Saudi leagues joining UEFA Champions league soon though... Money is awesome.... I can't see that, I see them differently... the MLS is following a US sports model used by all major codes in the US... its just they are very clever in how they manage revenue flows.... and its been almost 30 years in the development.... The Saudi worry me as they are spending crazy amounts... I see within five years a Man City V Newcastle Champion league finals as they these teams will have buying power unmatched by anyone... Further I see in the MLS, lots and lots and planning, engagement, and development.... in the process they have developed a large and loyal fan base.... and they have achieved this not only against other codes but often in direction competition with many of the worlds best Football leagues... imagine if you will Melbourne Victory up against Adelaide United... and then Man City V Liverpool, who would most watch... I know I keep banging about it... however MLS has a decision making model essentially centred around all key decisions are made with how their fans will react... very very very fan focused.... Football in Australia should do similar, not copy MLS but copy the decision making model... MLS expansion plans are to broadcast games in English, Spanish and French, the US / Mexico club cup... all of this was to engage non English speaking folk... and Messie is icing on the cake I guess...
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+x+xBy now I guess everybody knows that Messie has gone to the MLS....
This along with the FIFA approved MLS V Liga MX or MLS V Mexico club competition over 70 games... The belief is this competition over time add hugely to its ratings by introducing fans inside the US to MlS teams see link... https://www.mlssoccer.com/leagues-cup-2023/
Already this year crowds are up on last seasons average by about 4%, and the second half of their season is normally when they get their best crowds ...
The hope repeat hope.... of the MLS V Liga MX and now Messie is that more people from Mexico in particular but also other central and south Americans start to watch MLS... and with Messie other Football nations...
Interesting, given when MLS is played it clashes with many other leagues, so people have a real choice on what they watch or what competition they watch... Currently it sits something like this,
Liga MX [Mexico} 32%
EPL 22%
MLS 20%
La Liga {Spain} 6%
Bundesliga 5%
Campeonato Brasileoro Serie A {Brazil} 4%
Serie A 3.5%
Primera Division [Argentina } 2%
Plus other leagues to make up 100%
If as expected they keep expanding their teams its become a defacto promotion system, with promotion based not on points earned from a competition more the metrics of stadium, fan base, TV reach, expected crowds, management system in place... in 2005 they had 10 teams... in the 18 years since they have added 19 teams and have just added a new 30th team..
By 2030, at current rates the MLS will become a major force in world Football... whether people like it or not... Thats awesome Mid, and Messi has been guaranteed a franchise license as part of his contract like Beckham. Perhaps they can create an AC Miami to create a derby for Inter? I CAN see the MLS and Saudi leagues joining UEFA Champions league soon though... Money is awesome....
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Monoethnic Social Club
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
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+xBy now I guess everybody knows that Messie has gone to the MLS....
This along with the FIFA approved MLS V Liga MX or MLS V Mexico club competition over 70 games... The belief is this competition over time add hugely to its ratings by introducing fans inside the US to MlS teams see link... https://www.mlssoccer.com/leagues-cup-2023/
Already this year crowds are up on last seasons average by about 4%, and the second half of their season is normally when they get their best crowds ...
The hope repeat hope.... of the MLS V Liga MX and now Messie is that more people from Mexico in particular but also other central and south Americans start to watch MLS... and with Messie other Football nations...
Interesting, given when MLS is played it clashes with many other leagues, so people have a real choice on what they watch or what competition they watch... Currently it sits something like this,
Liga MX [Mexico} 32%
EPL 22%
MLS 20%
La Liga {Spain} 6%
Bundesliga 5%
Campeonato Brasileoro Serie A {Brazil} 4%
Serie A 3.5%
Primera Division [Argentina } 2%
Plus other leagues to make up 100%
If as expected they keep expanding their teams its become a defacto promotion system, with promotion based not on points earned from a competition more the metrics of stadium, fan base, TV reach, expected crowds, management system in place... in 2005 they had 10 teams... in the 18 years since they have added 19 teams and have just added a new 30th team..
By 2030, at current rates the MLS will become a major force in world Football... whether people like it or not... Thats awesome Mid, and Messi has been guaranteed a franchise license as part of his contract like Beckham. Perhaps they can create an AC Miami to create a derby for Inter?
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Midfielder
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By now I guess everybody knows that Messie has gone to the MLS....
This along with the FIFA approved MLS V Liga MX or MLS V Mexico club competition over 70 games... The belief is this competition over time add hugely to its ratings by introducing fans inside the US to MlS teams see link... https://www.mlssoccer.com/leagues-cup-2023/
Already this year crowds are up on last seasons average by about 4%, and the second half of their season is normally when they get their best crowds ...
The hope repeat hope.... of the MLS V Liga MX and now Messie is that more people from Mexico in particular but also other central and south Americans start to watch MLS... and with Messie other Football nations...
Interesting, given when MLS is played it clashes with many other leagues, so people have a real choice on what they watch or what competition they watch... Currently it sits something like this,
Liga MX [Mexico} 32%
EPL 22%
MLS 20%
La Liga {Spain} 6%
Bundesliga 5%
Campeonato Brasileoro Serie A {Brazil} 4%
Serie A 3.5%
Primera Division [Argentina } 2%
Plus other leagues to make up 100%
If as expected they keep expanding their teams its become a defacto promotion system, with promotion based not on points earned from a competition more the metrics of stadium, fan base, TV reach, expected crowds, management system in place... in 2005 they had 10 teams... in the 18 years since they have added 19 teams and have just added a new 30th team..
By 2030, at current rates the MLS will become a major force in world Football... whether people like it or not...
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x^^^ Mon Its not my intention to try and sell the MLS as a great competition.... nor recommend we follow their structure.... What I am saying, their decision making processes IMO are beyond impressive.... detailed and researched planning... fan focused decision making model... further what the MLS has achieved using these models is noteworthy, across a number of areas including development, creating an audience for Football... Let me put this another way and no way I am recommending their systems either... I could not name the AFL teams and would struggle to name a handful of AFL players... I have zero interest in the game and have never watched a game and for that matter even 5 minutes of a game.... Yet I understand they are well managed with lots of business and government connections... I am jealous actually and angry at their reach and influence .... and I am well aware of their hold on 7 ... I too remember the email... It is possible to look at something in a dispassionate manner to see what you can use and what you can discard... If MLS took the 500 million from 1 x license and invested it into creating a full "pyramid" beneath the MLS they could set up 50 clubs, thus 50 academies developing more than a thousand players for the NT.... They CAN'T however because that money wont be available if the franchise license it is "buying" doesnt have ANY value if it can be relegated out of the MLS.... I think it was you (sorry if not) that posted NYC FC new billion dollar stadium being built..... a BILLION dollar stadium and the US national team will NEVER win a world cup!!!! Do you know what a football federation like Morocoo could do with a billion dollars for example? Not sure if money is the solution anyway to player development. What money has Croatia with their youth development? They don't have 50 thriving Academies across the country. They don't have a thriving big $$ world class league. What do they have?? Culture? First class football culture bred into the nation. And that goes for most "football" nations. Each with their own intricacies. If the MLS over the next 30-50 years manages to improve the culture towards the sport and emulate it as it is towards basketball, then they will reap the rewards. Long term. There is no short fix here. Sure, you'll have your spruikers who have all the answers. But ultimately it's a long long term game. Something the Japanese aimed for with their 100 year plan? https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/07/01/japan-and-the-100-year-vision/I'm a massive fan of the MLS. And it seems to be changing the American sporting landscape. For that the MLS is on the right path. If it continues its trajectory their league may become a top 5 league. But if they manage to change the culture long term and have the sport ingrained into the populations psyche then it's working even better than imagined. And the national team may reap the benefits of it. I daresay at a time that perhaps not many of us will be around. For those of us in our 40's at least. P.s. Great thread by the way. Perhaps mate.... It does seem to be on an upwards trend as far as popularity goes.... The World Cup in 26 may be the pivotal moment but knowing the American ultra-nationalism, should their national team fail to fire it may damage the sport there more than anything.... Who knows?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xCan't say the MLS is a failure by any reasonable judgement. It has mobilised a huge amount of public and private investment and has teams regularly drawing 40,000+ crowds and their facility mix is closer to the actual demand than some of the AL clubs (Sydney, Brisbane, Newcastle, Central Coast, even Perth these days). I think the doubt though is in how much of that investment goes on the park. The salary cap of US 5.2 million seems to not be keeping pace there. That's where questions come about the manner in which the capital is being raised - through selling of new franchise fees. But no. MLS is far, far from being anything but successful. Financially sure ......... What happens when they have run out of 1million+ plus cities to expand into and sell ever increasing license fees too though? There is always another new horizon as longs the 500 million licenses come rolling in ... then what? Dont get me wrong, I agree the MLS is infinitely successful in what it has been set up to achieve for its investors ...... the APL is looking on with stars in its eyes and hope in it's heart for sure.
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bohemia
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Can't say the MLS is a failure by any reasonable judgement. It has mobilised a huge amount of public and private investment and has teams regularly drawing 40,000+ crowds and their facility mix is closer to the actual demand than some of the AL clubs (Sydney, Brisbane, Newcastle, Central Coast, even Perth these days).
I think the doubt though is in how much of that investment goes on the park. The salary cap of US 5.2 million seems to not be keeping pace there. That's where questions come about the manner in which the capital is being raised - through selling of new franchise fees.
But no. MLS is far, far from being anything but successful.
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Butler99
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+x+x^^^ Mon Its not my intention to try and sell the MLS as a great competition.... nor recommend we follow their structure.... What I am saying, their decision making processes IMO are beyond impressive.... detailed and researched planning... fan focused decision making model... further what the MLS has achieved using these models is noteworthy, across a number of areas including development, creating an audience for Football... Let me put this another way and no way I am recommending their systems either... I could not name the AFL teams and would struggle to name a handful of AFL players... I have zero interest in the game and have never watched a game and for that matter even 5 minutes of a game.... Yet I understand they are well managed with lots of business and government connections... I am jealous actually and angry at their reach and influence .... and I am well aware of their hold on 7 ... I too remember the email... It is possible to look at something in a dispassionate manner to see what you can use and what you can discard... If MLS took the 500 million from 1 x license and invested it into creating a full "pyramid" beneath the MLS they could set up 50 clubs, thus 50 academies developing more than a thousand players for the NT.... They CAN'T however because that money wont be available if the franchise license it is "buying" doesnt have ANY value if it can be relegated out of the MLS.... I think it was you (sorry if not) that posted NYC FC new billion dollar stadium being built..... a BILLION dollar stadium and the US national team will NEVER win a world cup!!!! Do you know what a football federation like Morocoo could do with a billion dollars for example? Not sure if money is the solution anyway to player development. What money has Croatia with their youth development? They don't have 50 thriving Academies across the country. They don't have a thriving big $$ world class league. What do they have?? Culture? First class football culture bred into the nation. And that goes for most "football" nations. Each with their own intricacies. If the MLS over the next 30-50 years manages to improve the culture towards the sport and emulate it as it is towards basketball, then they will reap the rewards. Long term. There is no short fix here. Sure, you'll have your spruikers who have all the answers. But ultimately it's a long long term game. Something the Japanese aimed for with their 100 year plan? https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/07/01/japan-and-the-100-year-vision/I'm a massive fan of the MLS. And it seems to be changing the American sporting landscape. For that the MLS is on the right path. If it continues its trajectory their league may become a top 5 league. But if they manage to change the culture long term and have the sport ingrained into the populations psyche then it's working even better than imagined. And the national team may reap the benefits of it. I daresay at a time that perhaps not many of us will be around. For those of us in our 40's at least. P.s. Great thread by the way.
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LFC.
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+x+x+x+x^^^ Mon Its not my intention to try and sell the MLS as a great competition.... nor recommend we follow their structure.... What I am saying, their decision making processes IMO are beyond impressive.... detailed and researched planning... fan focused decision making model... further what the MLS has achieved using these models is noteworthy, across a number of areas including development, creating an audience for Football... Let me put this another way and no way I am recommending their systems either... I could not name the AFL teams and would struggle to name a handful of AFL players... I have zero interest in the game and have never watched a game and for that matter even 5 minutes of a game.... Yet I understand they are well managed with lots of business and government connections... I am jealous actually and angry at their reach and influence .... and I am well aware of their hold on 7 ... I too remember the email... It is possible to look at something in a dispassionate manner to see what you can use and what you can discard... Matey I DO get where you are coming from and on some points agree. I also see the APL is, at least trying, to emulate this system of decision making though obviously they shoot themselves in the foot on the fan engagement side. What I think we differ in is that I dont believe we NEED to establish an audience for football here in Australia, we already have one.. Its just not engaging in the closed off Aleague..... The USA already has one also, many hundreds of thousands, if not millions love football and watch (as your stats back up) EPL and League MX for example.... What MLS has done is to target a mixture of new and old football fans solely for the financial benefit of the MLS ... thats great and the money they are making hand over fist is also impressive but don't be impressed by either them OR the AFL (which is the Aussie equivalent of the MLS in many many ways) any more than you would be impressed by Elon Musk or Bill Gates. Its just a bunch of investors wanting to emulate NFL, MLB and NBA at a cheaper pricepoint than the impossible to invest in big 3 in USA. If Electronic Ping Pong becomes the next consumer product in the states watch the new league get all the investment and broadcasting..... If MLS took the 500 million from 1 x license and invested it into creating a full "pyramid" beneath the MLS they could set up 50 clubs, thus 50 academies developing more than a thousand players for the NT.... They CAN'T however because that money wont be available if the franchise license it is "buying" doesnt have ANY value if it can be relegated out of the MLS.... I think it was you (sorry if not) that posted NYC FC new billion dollar stadium being built..... a BILLION dollar stadium and the US national team will NEVER win a world cup!!!! Do you know what a football federation like Morocoo could do with a billion dollars for example? To put it another way, if the APL succeed in replicating what the MLS has done here (and believe me that is their greatest wish and pretty much Lowy's reason for setting the whole thing up in the first place) what then? We have 14 or 16 or even 20 "clubs" with no connection to the millions of players "outside the tent", no reason for federation, state, NPL clubs to strive to improve and only a finite set of playing spots for our youth... Sorry mate, football shouldn't just be the "spectacle" it should be (at least in my way of thinking) what we, as a nation define ourselves on a sporting scale in comparison to the rest of the world. Football is life. Having full stadiums, warm seats and corporate boxes is great but so is coming within a kick of drawing level with Argentina in a World Cup :).... American sport does not work on “ academies “, they go through the college system, that seems to work for them. Does it though mate ?... Ive known quite a few lads who back in the day got scholarships to play at various colleges and unis in the States. Most teams were dominated by Aussie, Irish, English and Scottish imports, with a sprinkling of other Europeans and only 5-10 "muricans" in each side. The imports were mainly ex academy kids, reserve stalwarts, colt team or U19s players who saw this as an easy way to get a "paid for degree" and live the college life... At least thats how it was described to me. Admittedly this was in the 90s and early 200s so not sure if still the case. good ol Sutho, pings you quoting academies instead of saying college system lol..... Right college's actually have countless scholarships they distribute. Around 1700 college's so football, well soccer as they call it has grown through college for budding propective mls Clubs to nab. I'm sure there is a portion of anglo mericans nowdays but yer also alot of 1st gen hispanics as well. Their system works for the their gridiron/basketball etc as we've seen over the years so sooner or later their football will keep growing. As always, Arthur comes in with some cool interesting facts to review over the topic.
Love Football
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+xIf possible, and the lord knows its asking a lot, but can we just this once not all become experts in the US sporting environment and turn the whole thing into a P & R V Franchise Model.. Further I am not suggesting we copy their model, I strongly suggest we copy their fan focused decision making models and how they view their sporting environment. I hear what a failure and joke MLS is, all of the time. The buy in for expansion into MLS in 2003, exactly 20 years ago, was US $10 million. Renting at a local college gridiron stadium, zero business plans in place and of course moving to continue as renters at a local college gridiron stadiums. San Diego to become the 30th team in the MLS. 20 years on, paying US $500 million for the buy in now., and brining rights to a 35K stadium…. Yep, MLS total failure In the 30-team competition, there is 23 Football specific stadiums, plus two more teams building their own thus 25 soon, and with one team building a new stadium to go from an 18K stadium [which they are giving to their women’s team] to a 26K stadium. Over all crowds around 90 capacity attendance across the league… with revenues expected to exceed 2.3 billion in a 29-team league [BTW the 2.3 billion does not include the 500 million buy in] As I said total failure of a league, we have nothing to learn from them… If interested this is a vid of their stadiums, with Mami the first one showed being rebuild elsewhere to a new 26K stadium and the 18K stadium given to the womens team, New York FC & New England operating out of non-Football stadiums are in the process of constructing their own stadiums, 26K and 21K. Meaning of the 30 teams 25 will have Football specific stadiums, of the remaining 5 teams, 3 teams draw huge crowds to the non Football specific stadiums. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRAM5_a5gC0&ab_channel=TFCStadiums I suppose it comes down to a definition of success. It also comes down to the opportunity costs of not having an open system. This Until they have a full pyramid, they'll never know what might have been In the meantime, already long existing clubs are stuck, excluded. 100%
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x^^^ Mon Its not my intention to try and sell the MLS as a great competition.... nor recommend we follow their structure.... What I am saying, their decision making processes IMO are beyond impressive.... detailed and researched planning... fan focused decision making model... further what the MLS has achieved using these models is noteworthy, across a number of areas including development, creating an audience for Football... Let me put this another way and no way I am recommending their systems either... I could not name the AFL teams and would struggle to name a handful of AFL players... I have zero interest in the game and have never watched a game and for that matter even 5 minutes of a game.... Yet I understand they are well managed with lots of business and government connections... I am jealous actually and angry at their reach and influence .... and I am well aware of their hold on 7 ... I too remember the email... It is possible to look at something in a dispassionate manner to see what you can use and what you can discard... Matey I DO get where you are coming from and on some points agree. I also see the APL is, at least trying, to emulate this system of decision making though obviously they shoot themselves in the foot on the fan engagement side. What I think we differ in is that I dont believe we NEED to establish an audience for football here in Australia, we already have one.. Its just not engaging in the closed off Aleague..... The USA already has one also, many hundreds of thousands, if not millions love football and watch (as your stats back up) EPL and League MX for example.... What MLS has done is to target a mixture of new and old football fans solely for the financial benefit of the MLS ... thats great and the money they are making hand over fist is also impressive but don't be impressed by either them OR the AFL (which is the Aussie equivalent of the MLS in many many ways) any more than you would be impressed by Elon Musk or Bill Gates. Its just a bunch of investors wanting to emulate NFL, MLB and NBA at a cheaper pricepoint than the impossible to invest in big 3 in USA. If Electronic Ping Pong becomes the next consumer product in the states watch the new league get all the investment and broadcasting..... If MLS took the 500 million from 1 x license and invested it into creating a full "pyramid" beneath the MLS they could set up 50 clubs, thus 50 academies developing more than a thousand players for the NT.... They CAN'T however because that money wont be available if the franchise license it is "buying" doesnt have ANY value if it can be relegated out of the MLS.... I think it was you (sorry if not) that posted NYC FC new billion dollar stadium being built..... a BILLION dollar stadium and the US national team will NEVER win a world cup!!!! Do you know what a football federation like Morocoo could do with a billion dollars for example? To put it another way, if the APL succeed in replicating what the MLS has done here (and believe me that is their greatest wish and pretty much Lowy's reason for setting the whole thing up in the first place) what then? We have 14 or 16 or even 20 "clubs" with no connection to the millions of players "outside the tent", no reason for federation, state, NPL clubs to strive to improve and only a finite set of playing spots for our youth... Sorry mate, football shouldn't just be the "spectacle" it should be (at least in my way of thinking) what we, as a nation define ourselves on a sporting scale in comparison to the rest of the world. Football is life. Having full stadiums, warm seats and corporate boxes is great but so is coming within a kick of drawing level with Argentina in a World Cup :).... American sport does not work on “ academies “, they go through the college system, that seems to work for them. Does it though mate ?... Ive known quite a few lads who back in the day got scholarships to play at various colleges and unis in the States. Most teams were dominated by Aussie, Irish, English and Scottish imports, with a sprinkling of other Europeans and only 5-10 "muricans" in each side. The imports were mainly ex academy kids, reserve stalwarts, colt team or U19s players who saw this as an easy way to get a "paid for degree" and live the college life... At least thats how it was described to me. Admittedly this was in the 90s and early 200s so not sure if still the case.
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TheDjentleman
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As much as I want to call the MLS a joke, it is far from being a failure. It works because there is a lot implemented that has been mentioned in this thread earlier to make it work. I personally don't think we can be in this half-way model that we have here in Aus. It's gotta go all the way and bring in a draft etc. or go full P&R pyramid. One thing that isn't mentioned enough here is that the amount of players around the world that are eligible for the USA national team because they have a Yank mum or dad, grandparents, but trained elsewhere is astounding and definitely boosts their talent and marketability stocks. USA also has the citizen rights where you are born there you are eligible for a passport. I forgot what it is called in Latin and cbf googling im rambling and ranting lol
Everybodys favourite lurker.
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SUTHERLANDBEAR
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+x+x^^^ Mon Its not my intention to try and sell the MLS as a great competition.... nor recommend we follow their structure.... What I am saying, their decision making processes IMO are beyond impressive.... detailed and researched planning... fan focused decision making model... further what the MLS has achieved using these models is noteworthy, across a number of areas including development, creating an audience for Football... Let me put this another way and no way I am recommending their systems either... I could not name the AFL teams and would struggle to name a handful of AFL players... I have zero interest in the game and have never watched a game and for that matter even 5 minutes of a game.... Yet I understand they are well managed with lots of business and government connections... I am jealous actually and angry at their reach and influence .... and I am well aware of their hold on 7 ... I too remember the email... It is possible to look at something in a dispassionate manner to see what you can use and what you can discard... Matey I DO get where you are coming from and on some points agree. I also see the APL is, at least trying, to emulate this system of decision making though obviously they shoot themselves in the foot on the fan engagement side. What I think we differ in is that I dont believe we NEED to establish an audience for football here in Australia, we already have one.. Its just not engaging in the closed off Aleague..... The USA already has one also, many hundreds of thousands, if not millions love football and watch (as your stats back up) EPL and League MX for example.... What MLS has done is to target a mixture of new and old football fans solely for the financial benefit of the MLS ... thats great and the money they are making hand over fist is also impressive but don't be impressed by either them OR the AFL (which is the Aussie equivalent of the MLS in many many ways) any more than you would be impressed by Elon Musk or Bill Gates. Its just a bunch of investors wanting to emulate NFL, MLB and NBA at a cheaper pricepoint than the impossible to invest in big 3 in USA. If Electronic Ping Pong becomes the next consumer product in the states watch the new league get all the investment and broadcasting..... If MLS took the 500 million from 1 x license and invested it into creating a full "pyramid" beneath the MLS they could set up 50 clubs, thus 50 academies developing more than a thousand players for the NT.... They CAN'T however because that money wont be available if the franchise license it is "buying" doesnt have ANY value if it can be relegated out of the MLS.... I think it was you (sorry if not) that posted NYC FC new billion dollar stadium being built..... a BILLION dollar stadium and the US national team will NEVER win a world cup!!!! Do you know what a football federation like Morocoo could do with a billion dollars for example? To put it another way, if the APL succeed in replicating what the MLS has done here (and believe me that is their greatest wish and pretty much Lowy's reason for setting the whole thing up in the first place) what then? We have 14 or 16 or even 20 "clubs" with no connection to the millions of players "outside the tent", no reason for federation, state, NPL clubs to strive to improve and only a finite set of playing spots for our youth... Sorry mate, football shouldn't just be the "spectacle" it should be (at least in my way of thinking) what we, as a nation define ourselves on a sporting scale in comparison to the rest of the world. Football is life. Having full stadiums, warm seats and corporate boxes is great but so is coming within a kick of drawing level with Argentina in a World Cup :).... American sport does not work on “ academies “, they go through the college system, that seems to work for them.
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numklpkgulftumch
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+xno mostly no public funds involved... in the MLS... Feel free to source your claim
As of June 2017, 19 MLS teams
https://www.wcpo.com/news/government/local-politics/heres-how-much-other-cities-have-paid-to-help-build-mls-soccer-stadiums4 MLS teams play in stadiums that are used by another – more popular – professional sport.
These are the most expensive stadiums MLS teams play in, and 3 used some taxpayer funds to finance the deal or the stadium’s surrounding infrastructure.
For the other 15
Funding for these stadiums breaks down one of three ways:
Privately financed:
Four teams in the MLS entirely financed their own stadiums.
This means we found no evidence in our research that the public offered any kind of support, including infrastructure costs or tax breaks. The list of privately financed stadiums includes FC Cincinnati’s in-state rivals up north, the Columbus Crew. The average overall cost of one of these privately financed stadiums? $100 million.
Public/private support:
Half of MLS stadiums were funded with a mix of private and public funds. Each MLS stadium deal using taxpayer money is different from the next.
Some deals include deep, multi-year tax breaks, while other cities used hotel or sales tax to help finance the construction.
Some public entities paid millions for infrastructure upgrades such as parking lots around the stadium while others issued bonds to pay for the stadium up front.
The average public contribution for one of these stadiums? $83.3 million. That’s lower than the funding gap FC Cincinnati faces, which will be at least $100 million.
Publicly financed:
Only one MLS stadium in the U.S. – Toyota Park in the Village of Bridgeview where the Chicago Fire play -- was entirely publicly financed.
The village financed the $98 million stadium in 2003.
Since then, the village has struggled to pay down the debt and faced several credit downgrades as a result of the deal.
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numklpkgulftumch
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+x+xIf possible, and the lord knows its asking a lot, but can we just this once not all become experts in the US sporting environment and turn the whole thing into a P & R V Franchise Model.. Further I am not suggesting we copy their model, I strongly suggest we copy their fan focused decision making models and how they view their sporting environment. I hear what a failure and joke MLS is, all of the time. The buy in for expansion into MLS in 2003, exactly 20 years ago, was US $10 million. Renting at a local college gridiron stadium, zero business plans in place and of course moving to continue as renters at a local college gridiron stadiums. San Diego to become the 30th team in the MLS. 20 years on, paying US $500 million for the buy in now., and brining rights to a 35K stadium…. Yep, MLS total failure In the 30-team competition, there is 23 Football specific stadiums, plus two more teams building their own thus 25 soon, and with one team building a new stadium to go from an 18K stadium [which they are giving to their women’s team] to a 26K stadium. Over all crowds around 90 capacity attendance across the league… with revenues expected to exceed 2.3 billion in a 29-team league [BTW the 2.3 billion does not include the 500 million buy in] As I said total failure of a league, we have nothing to learn from them… If interested this is a vid of their stadiums, with Mami the first one showed being rebuild elsewhere to a new 26K stadium and the 18K stadium given to the womens team, New York FC & New England operating out of non-Football stadiums are in the process of constructing their own stadiums, 26K and 21K. Meaning of the 30 teams 25 will have Football specific stadiums, of the remaining 5 teams, 3 teams draw huge crowds to the non Football specific stadiums. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRAM5_a5gC0&ab_channel=TFCStadiums I suppose it comes down to a definition of success. It also comes down to the opportunity costs of not having an open system. This Until they have a full pyramid, they'll never know what might have been In the meantime, already long existing clubs are stuck, excluded.
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numklpkgulftumch
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+xhttps://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/08/can-mls-grow-its-fanbase-by-doing-a-wrexhamWrexham’s matches are now a regular draw on US TV – their first match on ESPN2 earlier this season easily outperformed MLS coverage on Fox Sports on the same day.
Los Angeles FC already tried this, producing a 10-part series for ESPN+ called We Are LAFC in 2019 (the club had its own celebrities on board: Will Ferrell and Magic Johnson owned small stakes when it launched). Billed as a warts-and-all presentation, the warts were decidedly missing – and that’s a problem for MLS in a new era of storytelling. Until now, the league has glossed itself at every opportunity to appear big-time. The warts have been deliberately hidden for fear of not the league being taken seriously.
Only problem for MLS in doing a Wrexham, there's no promotion and relegation. There's no story that sees Richmond Kickers go from USL 1 to USL Championship to MLS. Some argue Welcome to Wrexham has devalued American and Canadian soccer. Why, it’s pointed out, didn’t McElhenney and Reynolds invest in an MLS, USL Championship or Canadian Premier League club? By buying a fifth-division Welsh club instead, have they shown American and Canadian soccer isn’t worth investing in? Reynolds added: "Everything about the sport and the way the sport is handled here, the pyramid system, relegation and promotion, creates stakes like nothing else. https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65232880
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Arthur
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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/mar/08/can-mls-grow-its-fanbase-by-doing-a-wrexhamWrexham’s matches are now a regular draw on US TV – their first match on ESPN2 earlier this season easily outperformed MLS coverage on Fox Sports on the same day.
Los Angeles FC already tried this, producing a 10-part series for ESPN+ called We Are LAFC in 2019 (the club had its own celebrities on board: Will Ferrell and Magic Johnson owned small stakes when it launched). Billed as a warts-and-all presentation, the warts were decidedly missing – and that’s a problem for MLS in a new era of storytelling. Until now, the league has glossed itself at every opportunity to appear big-time. The warts have been deliberately hidden for fear of not the league being taken seriously.
Only problem for MLS in doing a Wrexham, there's no promotion and relegation. There's no story that sees Richmond Kickers go from USL 1 to USL Championship to MLS. Some argue Welcome to Wrexham has devalued American and Canadian soccer. Why, it’s pointed out, didn’t McElhenney and Reynolds invest in an MLS, USL Championship or Canadian Premier League club? By buying a fifth-division Welsh club instead, have they shown American and Canadian soccer isn’t worth investing in?
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Arthur
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+xIf possible, and the lord knows its asking a lot, but can we just this once not all become experts in the US sporting environment and turn the whole thing into a P & R V Franchise Model.. Further I am not suggesting we copy their model, I strongly suggest we copy their fan focused decision making models and how they view their sporting environment. I hear what a failure and joke MLS is, all of the time. The buy in for expansion into MLS in 2003, exactly 20 years ago, was US $10 million. Renting at a local college gridiron stadium, zero business plans in place and of course moving to continue as renters at a local college gridiron stadiums. San Diego to become the 30th team in the MLS. 20 years on, paying US $500 million for the buy in now., and brining rights to a 35K stadium…. Yep, MLS total failure In the 30-team competition, there is 23 Football specific stadiums, plus two more teams building their own thus 25 soon, and with one team building a new stadium to go from an 18K stadium [which they are giving to their women’s team] to a 26K stadium. Over all crowds around 90 capacity attendance across the league… with revenues expected to exceed 2.3 billion in a 29-team league [BTW the 2.3 billion does not include the 500 million buy in] As I said total failure of a league, we have nothing to learn from them… If interested this is a vid of their stadiums, with Mami the first one showed being rebuild elsewhere to a new 26K stadium and the 18K stadium given to the womens team, New York FC & New England operating out of non-Football stadiums are in the process of constructing their own stadiums, 26K and 21K. Meaning of the 30 teams 25 will have Football specific stadiums, of the remaining 5 teams, 3 teams draw huge crowds to the non Football specific stadiums. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRAM5_a5gC0&ab_channel=TFCStadiums I suppose it comes down to a definition of success. It also comes down to the opportunity costs of not having an open system. It also comes down to what happens on the field and quality of football. https://343coaching.com/Have a listen to these guys they have an interesting podcast and I agree with most of what they have to say about US Football, as the issues they raise are very similar to ours. https://343coaching.com/podcast/soccer-by-3four3/episode-263-someone-want-mls-franchise/This is a good listen
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LFC.
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+xLFC Please understand my new respect for the MLS is twofold ... first against a lot of barriers from both people outside football and inside football their success is astounding .... second the decision making process which IMO is exceptional in a number of ways, detailed and researched planning, communication to and with the fans, constant internal assessment of teams, goal setting, .... The decision making, is what impressive me the most... first they set long term goals and systems eg to play 34 rounds even with only 10 teams... second is decisions are made with a fan focused approach eg the moving the grand final would never have been made ..... its this decision making process we should copy... Just to share a little in the US Football market the ratings are broadly, Mexican league 32%, EPL 21%, MLS 19%.... the reasons are many why the Mexican league so out rates the MLS... respect as no P & R, language, because games between MLS and Mexican sides at the top level have up until last year always be won by the top Mexican team.... To address this issue [re MLS and Mexico] and with increased funding from the new media deal all MLS matches will be broadcast in English, Spanish and French, ..... second and this has taken years of negotiation roughly half thu the MLS season all the MLS teams and all the Mexican teams will hold a world cup style competition to determine the best team it will take just over a month... The above is but one example of detailed planning and how to deal with a long term issue and involve fans and be fan focused.. I'm listenning Mid, mericans have the resource as mentioned to milk the cow so to speak. They do a good job I agree. Delving more immigration has helped the nice increase's more than anything else having read this https://nvgt.com/blog/the-power-of-mls/Check out the hispanic increase's - what is their countries game ? yep football. Another thing I notice having gone to the US for over 25/30 times - and knowing many migrants who end up residing in the US they assimulate like many migrants here in the 50/60's - my business migrant colleagues have worked damn hard being accepted as mericans. That article backs that train of thought and the MLS layed out the net good on them. (47M foreign-born individuals in the U.S. The foreign-born population is predicted to increase 51% by 2040.) Another thing, similar to Europe, nothing like having borders or not too far between coutry to country, helps growth whereas we an island with hardly enough migration for growth to grow sport in good numbers, especially as mentioned with our unique pok a poop governance past present. Heres another read https://www.euromonitor.com/article/future-of-soccer-in-the-us-is-mls-poised-to-challenge-the-established-giantsCan anything be learnt to help grow the top league here like them? I just don't know they are capable period and alot of people are burnt and spent and I just don't know APLM is what the fish desire. You know where I really stand in the big picture.
Love Football
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