One of the things explained very well in the first vid is the history of US Football, and in a sense the MLS grew out of the US sporting environment. 

Anyone interested in this kinda thing its well worth watching.

Love a very well done vid especially one with heaps of facts and explains a lot. Both long both IMO excellent and very well researched.

This guy has put out two vids....

The first is about the history of Football in the US, the second is the history of the how the MLS .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4lAYGJB18&ab_channel=Zealand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC2tsej7OYg&ab_channel=Zealand

thanks mate good we see eye to eye a little.

Lets touch on the double standards, pre SM or computer age, there has always been the have's and have nots incl football.
How do you think LFC won all those titles back in those golden seasons, money, they bought top players eg like Dalglish and plenty more from up north.
Paid more than most other English Clubs those times.
You name it be it SerieA LaLiga etcetc its always been the smart Club/business owner coming up with the $$$s at the top leagues.
What really topped the piggy bank was bloody Murdoch and the Sky sponsership offer to the FA, that catipulted the EPL to the next levels and to date.
Has helped spread $$$$ top to bottom and the lower leagues.

The MLS has similar linage to here and AL's beginnings, without oggerlords it just doesn't happen.
They have many more as known and hence here it is, sure its grown since the '90's see below why :

"As of 2019, 44.9 million immigrants lived in the United States—more than double the 1990 number—representing nearly 14 percent of the country’s total population, the highest share since 1910. Immigrant origins are also shifting, with recent arrivals from China and India outpacing those from Mexico, and the overall number of Mexican immigrants declining since 2010. And after peaking at an estimated 12.3 million in 2007, the unauthorized immigrant population has decreased and mostly leveled out around 11 million."
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/immigration-shaped-united-states-history

Like I keep saying, numbers rule my friend, they hardly need to "fish where the fish are" just throw out the burley.

Maybe i have visited too many times there for I see so much how things evolve easily, infact I'm flying there on Monday incl to Mex - I'll do a little survey amongst my fellow business friends and ask do they follow their MLS or Mex league and what they think.

thats a different point and argument, I'd say most good honest humble living western supporters are not in favour with any of this type of ownership me incl.

Pretty much the only way to win a title in the EPL is have a multi billionaire arab from a county with a dubious human rights record buy your club. Everyone seems to be OK with that.

LFC

Nothing you posted above was incorrect.

The slant was if I am correct, its a fake league because its buying its success, and only thu money is it working.

By and large, I think saying the MLS is buying success is not an unfair statement, certainty the investment by team owners is there for all to see. Equally MLS revenues are becoming huge.

What irks me is the double standards, the EPL is a league based on money, all the top leagues in Europe have at best 3 teams that will win their titles, arguably the EPL has 6 teams. They are all based on money, talk about excess money what about Real with billions written off over the years, so do we say the Spanish league is crap.

Have you ever considered, that around the 90's, Football was hardly a thought in the minds of most Americans. Few local grounds, mostly basketball courts.

The growth in popularly the revenue raised raised etc is IMO a massive achievement, also you seem to dismiss as almost a nothing, the MLS has the youngest demographic. Having the youngest demographic is seen as a mega to the power of massive by many in both the business and sporting world.

I am not saying they are great, nor they are the best, however I am saying since around 2004 they have experienced growth across all areas and from a near zero starting point, and IMO thats a real achievement. 

Just like us.

It's weird seeing people criticise the MLS for crowds being huge, media interest growing and record income.

But we live in interesting times.

agreed from my pov as well.....who cares they have no relevance to date just as the Saudi league buying top players at the end of their careers.
Mid don't think its about bringing up other examples for arguments sake then again what else could you make comparisons with ? AL being its another franchise system like for like ? pears with pears I suppose.

I'm sure NFL/BB and all their other codes are tapping in to the younger gens as well.

Yep in '96 was 10 Shops now 29.
27yrs years gone by for 19 new shops.
Kudos on their crowd increase's but when you can buy some of the top ex Euro players year in year out then the GOAT are we surprised the surge in supporters but couldn't care less, as I've mentioned re the yanks, if there was a Watch the Grass Grow Tournament with entertainment I wouldn't be surprised it gaining a audience :)
Their one main tournament outside MLS is CONCACAF as know, close to a Aussie Cup format whats introduced for them in 2024.

As of 2023, 23 MLS teams have appeared in the CONCACAF Champions Cup since the inaugural 2008–09 Champions League season.

Seattle Sounders FC became champions in 2022, ending Liga MX's winning streak in the competition. They were the fifth MLS club to make it to the final, following Real Salt Lake in 2011, Montreal Impact in 2015, Toronto FC in 2018 and Los Angeles FC in 2020.^[3]

Canadian teams in MLS – CF Montréal, Toronto FC and Vancouver Whitecaps FC – qualify to the Champions Cup via a separate competition, the Canadian Championship, and they represent the Canadian Soccer Association. Starting in 2024, all three Canadian teams may qualify through MLS slots.^[1] The only times MLS standings were used for Canadian teams qualification were the 2014 season to determine the 2015–16 Champions League representative, as the Canadian Championship format was changed that season, and the 2020 season to determine the 2021 Champions League representative, as the 2020 Canadian Championship was postponed indefinitely due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Starting in 2018, the group stage was removed, so MLS teams now started in the Round of 16 (first round). Starting in 2024, one or two MLS teams will receive byes to the round of 16 while others will enter in the first round of 22 teams.^[6]

Till they dominate this Cup in the future then I may give its game the respect instead of it being buy a crowd.
Harsh maybe so.

Mate, I think your are drawing conclusions on no basis... WHAT ARE THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS ON THE PITCH? is my question.  You mention growing fan base and heaps of money .... cool.... but it all boils down to what you and I value as a metric to indicate a successful football nation. I have no idea what "real football" is personally, I just follow the club(s) I follow and admire beautiful skill on the park. You mention "growth" again I wouldn't know or care how their fan culture is going, I watched Tottenham v Fullham the other morning and the only two "Muricans" on the pitch were abysmal, Admittedly the left full back Robinson showed Kulusevski the touch line a couple of times but otherwise he was in his pocket all gam(pretty sure the kid was born and raised in the UK anyway) Apart from maybe Pulisic I dont know any other US players playing at any decent club these days. Nor has any MLS club (that I am aware of) every won a continental or club wrold cup trophy....  who cars if their middle aged soccer-mom fans have colourful smoke and megaphones and put up with "crap" from NFL and NBA fans?????? 

I don’t regard either league to be a “ joke “ league. They are what they are for a host of different reasons, but are special for the folk who attend them week in and week out.

l have actually attended six MLS games , 4 in America and 2 in Canada and enjoyed the experience of all of them, each in their own different way.

I don't know anyone at anytime who has even hinted the MLS is either the main sporting code in the US or is anything other than until quite recently not considered as a major sport in the US by many.... so to compare them to a country where Football is a religion seems like you trying to find something to build an argument.

What no recognition of crowds, recent media deals, massive increase in awareness, only sporting code in the US that has connected in numbers with Gen z & Min's .

This forum is a tough judge, however I think the answer lies in they have no P & R, so therefore nothing else matters, no matter what the achievement.

Prior to the 94 world cup they did not even have a national competition, they tried a while before but it failed and faded away...

To get the 94 WC, the US promised to have a national competition, they got the 94 WC and started the MLS in 96 I think, with 10 teams of which some folded.

Around 2005, they made some key decisions and have steadily grown since,  

Yell and scream they are not real Football fans, because !!!!!!!! ?????? its not real Football why, !!!!!!!!!?????? I could counter Football fans in the US are better because they put up with of crap from other sports and media in the US, as well everyone telling them they have a fake league etc... they cope it from all sides but keep turning up

This is what counts.

The Scottish Professional Football League continues to top the match attendance per capita table across Europe.

New figures show the SPFL had 21.3 attendees per 1,000 people at matches across its top four divisions, and a weekly average support of 117,700 fans.

And that is the four divisions, not just the top league.

BTW, The Celtic figures are a sham, they only go close to filling it twice a season.

And yet, how you measure a successful competition is NOTHING to do with how many tickets are sold (in my opinion)

Football Scotland reports (for last years season as an example)
"The full results mean in total from all 12 clubs, the average fan attendances have been 68.7 percent of the stadium capacity numbers and more than 3.18million spectators have walked through the gates at their respective clubs this term."

I would still say this is a more "robust" football ecosystem than the MLS wouldn't you Sutho?

Not Scotland bashing in ANY way, just wanting to get your view as to what YOU specifically see as a more of a joke the SPL or the MLS..... ? - Yes I know the Greek league is even less than 68%

Table in full:

Celtic - 60,832 capacity - 940,076 fans - 58,755 average - 16 games - 96.6%.
Rangers - 50,987 capacity - 787.714 fans - 49,232 average - 16 games - 96.6%
Hibs - 20,250 capacity - 279,154 fans - 17,447 average - 16 games - 86.2%
Hearts - 19,852 capacity - 277,587 fans - 18,526 average - 15 games - 93.3%
Aberdeen - 22,199 capacity - 243,498 fans - 15,219 average - 16 games - 68.6%
Dundee United - 14,233 capacity - 138,591 fans - 9,238 average - 15 games - 65.8%
St Mirren - 8,023 capacity - 98,945 fans - 6,184 average - 16 games - 77.1%
Kilmarnock - 18,128 capacity - 96,660 fans - 6,444 average - 15 games - 35.6%
Motherwell - 13,750 capacity - 94,652 fans - 5,916 average - 16 games - 43%

St Johnstone - 10,696 capacity - 78,976 fans - 5,265 average - 15 games - 49.2%

Ross County - 6,541 capacity - 75,144 fans - 4,420 average - 17 games - 67.6% (one sell out)

Livingston - 9,512 capacity - 69,266 fans - 4,329 average - 15 games - 45.5% (one sell out)

none of this is surprising.
339M pop.
Beckhams Miami partners are bros/sons of billionaire Canosa who also is Prez of Real Zaragoza, like what do you expect.
Lowys a plenty and some.
As of 2023, there are 735 billionaires in the U.S.
The millionaires are more plentiful—almost 22 million

Overall they average 22, 111 across 493 games for just over 10.9 million  which is 92% capacity 

The majority will be at , or very nearly capacity.

It would be interesting to see those as a percentage of capacity.

Copied from an MLS forum.

Final weekend for the 2023 MLS regular season.

New England (vs. Philadelphia) 41,355
New York City (vs. Chicago) 23,260
Charlotte (vs. Miami) 66,101
Toronto (vs. Orlando) 27,556
Columbus (vs. Montreal) 20,526
Cincinnati (vs. Atlanta) 25,513
Nashville (vs. New York Red Bulls) 27,875
St. Louis (vs. Seattle) 22,423
Kansas City (vs. Minnesota) 20,479
Colorado (vs. Salt Lake City) 17,538
Los Angeles Galaxy (vs. Dallas) 22,491
San Jose (vs. Austin) 18,000
Vancouver (vs. Los Angeles FC) 25,146
Portland (vs. Houston) 25,218

Total Attendance: 383,481

Average: 27,391

I'm so sorry, I have to point out the obvious to you.
I didn't follow Marconi in the 80s during the NSL because it was deemed an Italian club & I wasn't Italian. Likewise with the other effnik clubs in the NSL.
I don't deem Marconi an Italian club now, likewise for the Greek & Croatian clubs, but maybe those making decisions do, I do not know. Seriously I don't care.
As for the A-League, this has the same issue as the NSL, poor administration, but I still follow it in the hope one day it may get it right & i don't really care what others think on social media.

AS with all things bias, prejudice, prejudgements etc all play into how things are seen, sport is no different Rugby is for the private school boys etc.

IMO, a management team that can recognise bias against them and then work to change perceptions about them is if nothing else worth a look.

As I have stated before in the US, Footballs TV ratings are [using say 2019 to 22] Mexico 33%, EPL 21%, MLS 19.5%.

Added together its a big number and when the dollars each earn is added together its a big number, no different to here, Optus, Stan & Paramount if added together would be a big number.

The MLS, recognised Mexico but also other Central & South American people preferred their own leagues, many reason why MLS was not watched, no P & R, quality of play, quality of coaching, quality of the fans and so on.

To rectify this  the MLS after years of negotiations with FIFA arranged a cup competition between all MLS teams and all Liga MX teams this was the first year and it goes for a month. They hope it will add to MLS viewership by a % of the Mexican fans and or there kids will watch oerwatch in addition to Liga MX, MLS.

Another thing they are doing is having some key Liga MX games played in the US, mostly to break down barriers with MSM and introduce MLS fans to Football fans from a Football based fan base. 

Reports to date indicate via Apple its working. 

BTW here is an example of a Liga MX match played in the US.... short vid worth watching... but don't show the RBB...

https://twitter.com/ecauich/status/1713753370618642666?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1713753370618642666%7Ctwgr%5Ead36f2d62542289d8f840f5d5cbf4323fe6f9523%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bigsoccer.com%2Fthreads%2Fattendances-2023.2124849%2Fpage-56

YOU may not have but plenty of others whose opinions are based on this very take.

Me, Im like you. Still ate at restaurants and cooked food at home, just never went to a franchise again because (see above for reasons)

What are you on about.

Like I said this was the late 80's. By 1990 I wasn't living in Sydney anymore.

I went, it felt like I was in a foreign country, I stopped going.

I still played and watched football I just never went to any NSL matches. (See above for reasons.)

It wasn't for me (back then).

I made no comment on what it's like now. 

:) Ta, was particularly proud of that one

Thats the thing isnt it? You state you dont see Marconi as Italian and but previously say you didnt follow them becuase you are NOT Italian..... Man make up your mind!!!!!!!!

"I didn't follow Apia or Marconi because I didn't live near Leichardt nor was I Italian"

Most have NOT moved on mate. Its been 19 years and the same old plastic insecurities exist... You refuse to see community club connection as anything OTHER than old effnik communities because you can't explain it otherwise. The African Australia kids at Avondale, or the Indian and English lads at South don't exist to you because they dont fit the narrative that ONLY Italians follow Italian clubs or Greeks follow Greek clubs.... If the Aleague was so well liked there wouldn't be so many people on social media that would want to "Bags it out" what does that tell you?

See, this is the problem.
Perception!!!! I don't see Marconi as Italian, maybe the FA does. It's the FA  or old FFA who made the decision, not the people on here who follow the A-League.
Most have moved on.
It's only that you are here along with many others in the many forms of social media that comes on & bags out the A-league that does most no favour.

I mentioned similar earlier post, its not there to me and most of the mex/latinos are the b graders and easy $$$ instead of going to Euro with far far more competition for spots and the ease just head north of their borders.
Ages below beinning of their tenure for the excercise
David Villa 34yrs.
77 goals in 117 MLS games
Lampard 37yrs
15 goals in 29 MLS games and a MF fielder who knows the assists
Pirlo 36yrs - who knows how many assists and more so his distribution ability is second to none.
Drogba  37yrs
21 goals in 33 games for Montreal
Then in the USL comp for Phoenix 2yrs on
13 goals in 21 games
Kaka  32yrs ripped them
24 goals from 75 games
Rooney pretty much on 1 leg 33yrs
23 goals in 48 games
Bale got to say wasn't that great lasted a dozen games probably played more golf.
Henry 33yrs
51 goals from 122 games
Ibra 37yrs !
52 goals from 56 games !!
Beckham 32 + 5yrs there
18 goals from 98 games and imagine the assists.
Robbie Keane 31yrs + 5years there
83 goals from 125 games
Pele 34yrs
37 goals from 64 games.
Messi 36yrs
League Cup 9 goals in 6games.
MLS 1 goal for 5games to date (been injured or rested lately)

an interesting quote in a google search :
MLS teams aren't taken seriously because they're not independent clubs. Instead, they're limited outlets in a chain that is built more like Pizza Hut than the Premier League. They copy nomenclature from real leagues to cover that fact. Basically half of MLS has already been rebranded.

Sure its improving general state of play but yer, way to go yet.
As quoted before, till I see players making it abroad from the MLS consistantly then I'll look up.
Pulisic @ 25yrs hitting peak age has struggled, a fair player actually but couldn't get a regular starting spot over 4yrs at Chelsea, sure was a turbulent time at the club but could have would have.
Maybe SerieA will suit him.

Sure for Mid its successful commercially, fan engagement etcetc, am I surprised, nope, thats U S A U S A.
They are attracted to a "show" all their main stream sports follow a similar bait, I wonder how many actually would attend without the pre, HT and post game entertainment and fandom.
It lacks soul for me but I'm coming from our world of Club football.

just the same as I responded to Muzza, move on thank christ times have changed - for some lol......

Hahaha!…. Great ‘gotcha moment’ 🤣🤣

Yeah mate but why is that perception still a thing? Why is it that when I look at Marconi I see a club, founded by Italian immigrants 50-60-70 years ago, now followed and run by Australians and supported by Australians of all walks of life and you see Italians?

Yeah thats a valid take Muz... I also refuse to eat in a McDonalds because  they tend to not empty the ashtrays inside the restaurant and its just gross eating amongst all the cigarette buts.