|
robbos
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAustralia in general is a very conformist / rules-based country. People with flair, individualism and who act differently are generally ostracized or looked on negatively. It's a massive generalisation, but I think rings true, if this has any effect on how we produce footballers I don't know...probably minimal but it could make sense. I also just think we don't have the culture and the kids in the streets playing that breeds this type of footballer. It's all 2500k marketing camps. Which is probably a much more likely reason. yes mate, for sure there is so many pieces to the puzzle and the times. Another strange thing with all the football exposure/kids wearing Euro kits etcetc you'd think we'd be heading for that BOOM we/I've been waiting on for the last 30+ yrs but here we are. Yep $2500/3k wannabee camps, Individual training, seriously what a turn around. Once upon a time my ol man would struggle to buy me good boots, forget a LFC shirt as a gift OR APIA shirt BUT we as kids would be down the local oval smashing balls, my Mums plants were smashed up at home. I'm glad I encouraged my 2 sons (31/24) football is the game and they live and breath it as I do, they continously keep goign to kickabouts with mates. Now these budding fully kitted up and comers have the skills you'd die for then when going into camps they are trained out of their abilty having mimicked CR7/Messi/Neymar or whoever. yeah bloody oath. I was telling someone the other day how we used to make footballs with newspaper and sticky tape when I was little. They couldn't;t believe it lol A player that can dribble 1/2 the opposition squad is LOVED by his teammates (and the opponents try and kick three shade of shit out of him) but here he is a ball hog and not a team player.... we value different things here thats all. I was just thinking the same thing. You look at any good successful striker and there is an element of selfishness about them. I think we lack a bit of that. It's probably why we see so many foreign strikers doing well in the A-League. They know what they want and aren't afraid to take it. They'll take the shot on goal even when there is only a small gap and a player wide open at the far post to receive a pass. Which often gets results here, because the Aussie defenders and keepers are anticipating the pass. #9s and #10s are MEANT to be selfish bastards.... thats written in the laws of the game... well it should be :) hey in our current state I have no care what number a selfish player wears haha but yep, selfishness is needed and back yourself, thats the mentality of a winner. 'In our current state', LFC when did Australia produce strikers outside of the Dukes? The following all played in big 5 leagues or champions league sides.. Aloisi Farina Kennedy Dave Mitchell Krncevic Agostino Kewell (started at LM but also played CF at times with Leeds, and then with Gala was almost exclusively a CF) Cahill (was a CF from about 2010 onwards) McDonald Sterjovski (was a CF at Lille, before moving to wing at Basel and Derby) Zdrillic Richard Garcia Leckie (CF at times) Dykes (not quite Prem but one of the best in Champ and played in euros) Tbf we've traditionally produced quality strikers it's just last few yrs things have dried up. Hopefully Mo Toure and Yengi can take next step. How many of these players would get a run as a striker in the top leagues today? None. Outside chance Alosi as a backup striker for a lower level team. Kewell & Leckie as wingers, yes, Cahill is the big question mark, great goalscorer, but not great with ball at feet.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Monoethnic Social Club
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
bump past dodgy Thai betting arseholes
|
|
|
|
|
SUTHERLANDBEAR
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.3K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xTo be fair we also produced Dylan Tombides (RIP) and also Lyndon Dykes who was pinched by Scotland. Not sure Lyndon Dykes has scored at a good rate for Scotland? I've looked up his stats, but can't remember them off the top of my head? He is a loss though, in a position where Aus struggles. Dykes is no loss to Australia.
|
|
|
|
|
Bunch of Hacks
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+xah yes I neglected big ol Dave Mitchell, (I played against him when he retired) another not bad frontman. Sorry mate Agostino has done nothing abroad (but for recent Viking signing) compared to the known front guys we've noted. Macca I also neglected to mention more worthy - like Dukes we just couldn't get more banked in the goals @ NT games sadly. Dave Z yer a good mention. We've dried up last few years - since TC hung the boots we've struggled regular goal scoring, 2018, 6yrs. Yengi is NOT going to deliver NT game in game out read my lips, Toure alot more hope very early days we wait and see and review in 4yrs. Paul Agostino who played for 1860 Munich for several seasons when they were a mid table Bundi side
|
|
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
just no point going there BT, 1 game is just that, lets wait and see games onwards and runs on the board for we've seen promise all before and then blanks.
Love Football
|
|
|
|
|
Balin Trev
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.7K,
Visits: 0
|
Before Velupillay scored v China as striker, when was the last time Duke, Yengi or JMac etc scored from open play without it being header or tap in?!
|
|
|
|
|
BA81
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.9K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x
The issue as much as anything is that Australian culture typically holds up sporting excellence as a result of prodigiousness rather than lifelong application, which TBF is down to the fact a lot of our main sports rely on sheer physicality/athleticism rather than learned skill.
I don't think you understand how much Warne could spin it compared to other bowlers... doctors were perplexed about how he was able to spin his wrist like that compared to other normal spinners - his wrist moved abnormally.. It's literally a skill he pushed to the max... not athleticism he got to the point where he changed the way people bowled leg spin. Someone from a different sport with a similar impact is Busquests.... literally changed the way a 6 plays.. changed the way teams play. This was pure skill his ability in the middle to turn on a dime , feint one way go another... this is a learned skill developed since childhood besting players in tight spaces like a mini pitch on the street etc. I’m not at all disputing that, bc cricket obv isn’t a crash&bash sport; it and instances like The Don and Warnie are outliers compared to the dime-a-dozen AFL/NRL meatheads.. In saying that, I come back to how the peanut talking-heads on SUNRISE and the TODAY show on Ch9 greeted Cadel Evans’ Tour de France win. Now I don’t profess to be a cycling expert but even I know it’s a strategic/technical sport..yet the b0g@n apes on the idiot-box merely put down his victory to his ‘superior genetics’ whathaveyou, going all PHWOOAAR when the cameras close-up focused on his calves&thighs mid-race like it was some borderline-h0m03r0t1c thing.. I sincerely wish I were but taking the p1$$ w/this, but that’s exactly what I saw happen.
|
|
|
|
|
jas88
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x
The issue as much as anything is that Australian culture typically holds up sporting excellence as a result of prodigiousness rather than lifelong application, which TBF is down to the fact a lot of our main sports rely on sheer physicality/athleticism rather than learned skill.
I don't think you understand how much Warne could spin it compared to other bowlers... doctors were perplexed about how he was able to spin his wrist like that compared to other normal spinners - his wrist moved abnormally.. It's literally a skill he pushed to the max... not athleticism he got to the point where he changed the way people bowled leg spin. Someone from a different sport with a similar impact is Busquests.... literally changed the way a 6 plays.. changed the way teams play. This was pure skill his ability in the middle to turn on a dime , feint one way go another... this is a learned skill developed since childhood besting players in tight spaces like a mini pitch on the street etc.
|
|
|
|
|
Decentric 2
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
Visits: 0
|
According to goalscoring rates from matches played since we've joined Asia, I think only Cahill, Kennedy and Aloisi ( who played a few games against overseas teams) have strike rates approaching 0.5 - 0.4 goals scored per game played over a sustained period.
|
|
|
|
|
Decentric 2
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.1K,
Visits: 0
|
+xTo be fair we also produced Dylan Tombides (RIP) and also Lyndon Dykes who was pinched by Scotland. Not sure Lyndon Dykes has scored at a good rate for Scotland? I've looked up his stats, but can't remember them off the top of my head? He is a loss though, in a position where Aus struggles.
|
|
|
|
|
Quicky
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.5K,
Visits: 0
|
Bump past spam
|
|
|
|
|
grazorblade
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xIt's interesting and I don't think coincidental that Australian basketball faces a similar issue. We have produced some quality NBA players who excel as members of teams (e.g. Bogut, Simmons, Giddey) but almost nobody who is a genuinely great shooter. I think both these issues reflect Australian sporting culture but not a lack creativity/innovation as suggested above. Rather, I think we are anti people going for glory themselves and are anti ball hogs. I think that's why we've produced some of the best passers in the NBA and in football likewise seem to try to pass it on the net, rather than take the shot. hey long time no see! I definitely noticed the difference watching aussie bakeoff/masterchef and foreign versions. In the aussie ones they try and help each other Yeah, it's been a while (nice to be remembered!). To be honest, I just haven't watched much football in the last 12 months.I thought I'd never have said this but I've been watching lots of NRL and have lost most of my interest in the A-League and Socceroos. I'm so out of the loop I didn't even realise Auckland had joined. Had an odd moment the other day where I saw an article that listed Sainsbury, Taggart, Grant and Behich as club captains and figured it must have been 10 years out of date. I'm sure I'll come back but everything has felt so stale for so long that without realising I just drifted away. (Which if I think about it probably reflects the problems this thread is all about). yeah I kind of drifted a few years back but came back due to the game vs peru and the wc run, then the youth getting more minutes in the a league and abroad I do think things are looking up, but it would take a return of the nst, nyl and a league expansion before we really get back to where we should be
|
|
|
|
|
Kamaryn
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.6K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xIt's interesting and I don't think coincidental that Australian basketball faces a similar issue. We have produced some quality NBA players who excel as members of teams (e.g. Bogut, Simmons, Giddey) but almost nobody who is a genuinely great shooter. I think both these issues reflect Australian sporting culture but not a lack creativity/innovation as suggested above. Rather, I think we are anti people going for glory themselves and are anti ball hogs. I think that's why we've produced some of the best passers in the NBA and in football likewise seem to try to pass it on the net, rather than take the shot. hey long time no see! I definitely noticed the difference watching aussie bakeoff/masterchef and foreign versions. In the aussie ones they try and help each other Yeah, it's been a while (nice to be remembered!). To be honest, I just haven't watched much football in the last 12 months.I thought I'd never have said this but I've been watching lots of NRL and have lost most of my interest in the A-League and Socceroos. I'm so out of the loop I didn't even realise Auckland had joined. Had an odd moment the other day where I saw an article that listed Sainsbury, Taggart, Grant and Behich as club captains and figured it must have been 10 years out of date. I'm sure I'll come back but everything has felt so stale for so long that without realising I just drifted away. (Which if I think about it probably reflects the problems this thread is all about).
|
|
|
|
|
Lupi33
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 291,
Visits: 0
|
Flair and application is something lacking in Australian culture. Remember this is the nation that brought Raygun to the world.
|
|
|
|
|
Monoethnic Social Club
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x[quote]The reason Warne was so good was he spent most of his time playing cricket on the road. He learnt to turn the ball and his wrist more than any other player at the time and revived a dying art which was Leg spin. In my opinion this only happens at this young age when they develop that level of skill, its similar to young footballers who play with a ball 24/7 after 6-7 years they don't even have to look down anymore they can feel where the ball is.
They say the young Don Bradman used to practice his batting with a stump and a golf ball, similar to how Maradona in his youth practiced his skills with a tennis ball. It’s my understanding though that in the case of the former eg., it’s typically told in the context of “that’s how good he already was” rather than “that’s how he got to be as good as he was”
The issue as much as anything is that Australian culture typically holds up sporting excellence as a result of prodigiousness rather than lifelong application, which TBF is down to the fact a lot of our main sports rely on sheer physicality/athleticism rather than learned skill. ah therefore the "bogan" route :) mind you I always looked afl was a sissy game to me, the rugby's are the clash of the colonies beating the crap out of each other like watching Braveheart. Hahahah like the part in Braveheart where they presented their bare arses to the enemy you mean? hahahah ah re LFC, you and your bum sniffers... hahahahahaahah
|
|
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x[quote]The reason Warne was so good was he spent most of his time playing cricket on the road. He learnt to turn the ball and his wrist more than any other player at the time and revived a dying art which was Leg spin. In my opinion this only happens at this young age when they develop that level of skill, its similar to young footballers who play with a ball 24/7 after 6-7 years they don't even have to look down anymore they can feel where the ball is.
They say the young Don Bradman used to practice his batting with a stump and a golf ball, similar to how Maradona in his youth practiced his skills with a tennis ball. It’s my understanding though that in the case of the former eg., it’s typically told in the context of “that’s how good he already was” rather than “that’s how he got to be as good as he was”
The issue as much as anything is that Australian culture typically holds up sporting excellence as a result of prodigiousness rather than lifelong application, which TBF is down to the fact a lot of our main sports rely on sheer physicality/athleticism rather than learned skill. ah therefore the "bogan" route :) mind you I always looked afl was a sissy game to me, the rugby's are the clash of the colonies beating the crap out of each other like watching Braveheart.
Love Football
|
|
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xSorry mate Agostino has done nothing abroad (but for recent Viking signing) compared to the known front guys we've noted. I think he meant Paul Agostino from back in the day, not Nick Daggers ah yes thanks BA81 true I stuffed up jumping in too quick.
Love Football
|
|
|
|
|
BA81
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.9K,
Visits: 0
|
+x[quote]The reason Warne was so good was he spent most of his time playing cricket on the road. He learnt to turn the ball and his wrist more than any other player at the time and revived a dying art which was Leg spin. In my opinion this only happens at this young age when they develop that level of skill, its similar to young footballers who play with a ball 24/7 after 6-7 years they don't even have to look down anymore they can feel where the ball is.
They say the young Don Bradman used to practice his batting with a stump and a golf ball, similar to how Maradona in his youth practiced his skills with a tennis ball. It’s my understanding though that in the case of the former eg., it’s typically told in the context of “that’s how good he already was” rather than “that’s how he got to be as good as he was”
The issue as much as anything is that Australian culture typically holds up sporting excellence as a result of prodigiousness rather than lifelong application, which TBF is down to the fact a lot of our main sports rely on sheer physicality/athleticism rather than learned skill.
|
|
|
|
|
BA81
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 1.9K,
Visits: 0
|
+xSorry mate Agostino has done nothing abroad (but for recent Viking signing) compared to the known front guys we've noted. I think he meant Paul Agostino from back in the day, not Nick Daggers
|
|
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
ah yes I neglected big ol Dave Mitchell, (I played against him when he retired) another not bad frontman. Sorry mate Agostino has done nothing abroad (but for recent Viking signing) compared to the known front guys we've noted. Macca I also neglected to mention more worthy - like Dukes we just couldn't get more banked in the goals @ NT games sadly. Dave Z yer a good mention. We've dried up last few years - since TC hung the boots we've struggled regular goal scoring, 2018, 6yrs. Yengi is NOT going to deliver NT game in game out read my lips, Toure alot more hope very early days we wait and see and review in 4yrs.
Love Football
|
|
|
|
|
Bunch of Hacks
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAustralia in general is a very conformist / rules-based country. People with flair, individualism and who act differently are generally ostracized or looked on negatively. It's a massive generalisation, but I think rings true, if this has any effect on how we produce footballers I don't know...probably minimal but it could make sense. I also just think we don't have the culture and the kids in the streets playing that breeds this type of footballer. It's all 2500k marketing camps. Which is probably a much more likely reason. yes mate, for sure there is so many pieces to the puzzle and the times. Another strange thing with all the football exposure/kids wearing Euro kits etcetc you'd think we'd be heading for that BOOM we/I've been waiting on for the last 30+ yrs but here we are. Yep $2500/3k wannabee camps, Individual training, seriously what a turn around. Once upon a time my ol man would struggle to buy me good boots, forget a LFC shirt as a gift OR APIA shirt BUT we as kids would be down the local oval smashing balls, my Mums plants were smashed up at home. I'm glad I encouraged my 2 sons (31/24) football is the game and they live and breath it as I do, they continously keep goign to kickabouts with mates. Now these budding fully kitted up and comers have the skills you'd die for then when going into camps they are trained out of their abilty having mimicked CR7/Messi/Neymar or whoever. yeah bloody oath. I was telling someone the other day how we used to make footballs with newspaper and sticky tape when I was little. They couldn't;t believe it lol A player that can dribble 1/2 the opposition squad is LOVED by his teammates (and the opponents try and kick three shade of shit out of him) but here he is a ball hog and not a team player.... we value different things here thats all. I was just thinking the same thing. You look at any good successful striker and there is an element of selfishness about them. I think we lack a bit of that. It's probably why we see so many foreign strikers doing well in the A-League. They know what they want and aren't afraid to take it. They'll take the shot on goal even when there is only a small gap and a player wide open at the far post to receive a pass. Which often gets results here, because the Aussie defenders and keepers are anticipating the pass. #9s and #10s are MEANT to be selfish bastards.... thats written in the laws of the game... well it should be :) hey in our current state I have no care what number a selfish player wears haha but yep, selfishness is needed and back yourself, thats the mentality of a winner. 'In our current state', LFC when did Australia produce strikers outside of the Dukes? The following all played in big 5 leagues or champions league sides.. Aloisi Farina Kennedy Dave Mitchell Krncevic Agostino Kewell (started at LM but also played CF at times with Leeds, and then with Gala was almost exclusively a CF) Cahill (was a CF from about 2010 onwards) McDonald Sterjovski (was a CF at Lille, before moving to wing at Basel and Derby) Zdrillic Richard Garcia Leckie (CF at times) Dykes (not quite Prem but one of the best in Champ and played in euros) Tbf we've traditionally produced quality strikers it's just last few yrs things have dried up. Hopefully Mo Toure and Yengi can take next step.
|
|
|
|
|
Bunch of Hacks
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.8K,
Visits: 0
|
To be fair we also produced Dylan Tombides (RIP) and also Lyndon Dykes who was pinched by Scotland.
|
|
|
|
|
Lupi33
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 291,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+xI think it just comes down to having the young kids playing and playing the streets and that has disappeared. The reason Warne was so good was he spent most of his time playing cricket on the road. He learnt to turn the ball and his wrist more than any other player at the time and revived a dying art which was Leg spin. In my opinion this only happens at this young age when they develop that level of skill, its similar to young footballers who play with a ball 24/7 after 6-7 years they don't even have to look down anymore they can feel where the ball is. We just don't produce these skilled players we get mostly robots who can play certain type of team game without any flair as its been coached out since they were 6 when the GK's father is yelling at kids to pass the ball instead of taking on a player or shooting. Alot of it has to do with us not really having a football spectator culture. Coaching and training methodology aside, as you say, the bored parents on the sidelines are yelling out "kick it", "pass it" at the talented kids in the belief that "team play" is the ONLY thing "sokkah" is all about..... Both good points fellas. In the end it’s the lack of culture here having been smashed so long since the early days. Today kids don’t play outside but the few. Freedom not just on the football field but outdoors has changed ways a lot. Tech - stat this stat that prevails - academies isn’t for all nor can many afford it. We have barriers in so many things that once wasn’t there. Robots is right to a degree not just coaching but lifestyle. Your run by a schedule when what you can do with your free time. Hardly anything is done at a drop of a hat like before. The Chinese suffer from a similar affliction
|
|
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+xI think it just comes down to having the young kids playing and playing the streets and that has disappeared. The reason Warne was so good was he spent most of his time playing cricket on the road. He learnt to turn the ball and his wrist more than any other player at the time and revived a dying art which was Leg spin. In my opinion this only happens at this young age when they develop that level of skill, its similar to young footballers who play with a ball 24/7 after 6-7 years they don't even have to look down anymore they can feel where the ball is. We just don't produce these skilled players we get mostly robots who can play certain type of team game without any flair as its been coached out since they were 6 when the GK's father is yelling at kids to pass the ball instead of taking on a player or shooting. Alot of it has to do with us not really having a football spectator culture. Coaching and training methodology aside, as you say, the bored parents on the sidelines are yelling out "kick it", "pass it" at the talented kids in the belief that "team play" is the ONLY thing "sokkah" is all about..... Both good points fellas. In the end it’s the lack of culture here having been smashed so long since the early days. Today kids don’t play outside but the few. Freedom not just on the football field but outdoors has changed ways a lot. Tech - stat this stat that prevails - academies isn’t for all nor can many afford it. We have barriers in so many things that once wasn’t there. Robots is right to a degree not just coaching but lifestyle. Your run by a schedule when what you can do with your free time. Hardly anything is done at a drop of a hat like before.
Love Football
|
|
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAustralia in general is a very conformist / rules-based country. People with flair, individualism and who act differently are generally ostracized or looked on negatively. It's a massive generalisation, but I think rings true, if this has any effect on how we produce footballers I don't know...probably minimal but it could make sense. I also just think we don't have the culture and the kids in the streets playing that breeds this type of footballer. It's all 2500k marketing camps. Which is probably a much more likely reason. yes mate, for sure there is so many pieces to the puzzle and the times. Another strange thing with all the football exposure/kids wearing Euro kits etcetc you'd think we'd be heading for that BOOM we/I've been waiting on for the last 30+ yrs but here we are. Yep $2500/3k wannabee camps, Individual training, seriously what a turn around. Once upon a time my ol man would struggle to buy me good boots, forget a LFC shirt as a gift OR APIA shirt BUT we as kids would be down the local oval smashing balls, my Mums plants were smashed up at home. I'm glad I encouraged my 2 sons (31/24) football is the game and they live and breath it as I do, they continously keep goign to kickabouts with mates. Now these budding fully kitted up and comers have the skills you'd die for then when going into camps they are trained out of their abilty having mimicked CR7/Messi/Neymar or whoever. yeah bloody oath. I was telling someone the other day how we used to make footballs with newspaper and sticky tape when I was little. They couldn't;t believe it lol A player that can dribble 1/2 the opposition squad is LOVED by his teammates (and the opponents try and kick three shade of shit out of him) but here he is a ball hog and not a team player.... we value different things here thats all. I was just thinking the same thing. You look at any good successful striker and there is an element of selfishness about them. I think we lack a bit of that. It's probably why we see so many foreign strikers doing well in the A-League. They know what they want and aren't afraid to take it. They'll take the shot on goal even when there is only a small gap and a player wide open at the far post to receive a pass. Which often gets results here, because the Aussie defenders and keepers are anticipating the pass. #9s and #10s are MEANT to be selfish bastards.... thats written in the laws of the game... well it should be :) hey in our current state I have no care what number a selfish player wears haha but yep, selfishness is needed and back yourself, thats the mentality of a winner. 'In our current state', LFC when did Australia produce strikers outside of the Dukes? Kennedy wasnt bad at it mate and little Timmy (although not a striker) certainly fits the brief as a goal hungry selfish player.... more of that is needed in my book. yer robbos, well ofcourse its been the trillion $ question for decades..... Don't know IF its us supporters never statisfied or our bars are looking at renowed EU players we've all admired that to date we lack producing. Yep we all agree Dukes was an out and out proven striker we admire (unlike some that don't), here he smoked it like no other to date and he did at EU Club level. NT I give the rope due to how we played ( + many complicated circumstances) that didn't produce a higher strike rate. Farina was a out and out striker, again like Dukes banged plenty in here and early years abroad but at NT, once again similar to Dukes lower strike rate. Yer Josh done his best, better than expected he put away important goals. Another not mentioned MSC Aloisi, he actually is around 50% strike rate at NT if I'm right having a glance. Good ol Peter Ollerton was another striker back in the day with a good local record and again about a 50% NT ratio. Yep throw in TC the un assuming un expected deliverer of goals no one expected long before. Therefore robbos - yep Dukes was the classiest front man act of them all, Aloisi doesn't get enough cred imo remembered more for the winning pen but his account isn't bad. Sure would have been nice to have higher strike rates way back then. Since the guys above and TC hanging up the boots we are sparse and lacking in the converting dept - incl midfielders who can put them away backing the blanks up front. Not until we have a sound proven balanced midfield that dictate/dominate periods of play, slide balls through behind the lines consistantly and player/s up front who hit the zone forcing the GK to make saves let alone hit the net ! or one like Nisbet right now dribble through and have a crack on target again and again. We even struggle putting corners consistantly hitting the 6yard box ffs. Don't know what the probs are or combinations of more, Rogic would bang some in from outside and more so beast it through the midfield, Mooy would creative havoc, - we haven't produced players like these guys as well atm. All is my armchair pov that would differ to many I suppose. Alosi was a decent striker, but nothing great, he will always be cherished for the penalty, but he was a journeyman back then for lower level clubs, he would struggle to get a gig in the top level today. We had 2 potential players that excelled at junior level but one Tombides passed away due to cancer & the other Bulut had well many other issues. The ones today is McGree & Irankunda, the latter yet to prove himself, but both have potential. Did you watch the recent doco on Dylan mate? (check it out below if not) So so so very very sad.... God we really are cursed down under sometimes, this boy could have done great things..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94FGFZ8hnzY very very sad. Huge sad loss so so sorry for the family more than anything. Was better than Irakunda easily
Love Football
|
|
|
|
|
Monoethnic Social Club
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
+xI think it just comes down to having the young kids playing and playing the streets and that has disappeared. The reason Warne was so good was he spent most of his time playing cricket on the road. He learnt to turn the ball and his wrist more than any other player at the time and revived a dying art which was Leg spin. In my opinion this only happens at this young age when they develop that level of skill, its similar to young footballers who play with a ball 24/7 after 6-7 years they don't even have to look down anymore they can feel where the ball is. We just don't produce these skilled players we get mostly robots who can play certain type of team game without any flair as its been coached out since they were 6 when the GK's father is yelling at kids to pass the ball instead of taking on a player or shooting. Alot of it has to do with us not really having a football spectator culture. Coaching and training methodology aside, as you say, the bored parents on the sidelines are yelling out "kick it", "pass it" at the talented kids in the belief that "team play" is the ONLY thing "sokkah" is all about.....
|
|
|
|
|
jas88
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 5.8K,
Visits: 0
|
I think it just comes down to having the young kids playing and playing the streets and that has disappeared.
The reason Warne was so good was he spent most of his time playing cricket on the road. He learnt to turn the ball and his wrist more than any other player at the time and revived a dying art which was Leg spin. In my opinion this only happens at this young age when they develop that level of skill, its similar to young footballers who play with a ball 24/7 after 6-7 years they don't even have to look down anymore they can feel where the ball is.
We just don't produce these skilled players we get mostly robots who can play certain type of team game without any flair as its been coached out since they were 6 when the GK's father is yelling at kids to pass the ball instead of taking on a player or shooting.
|
|
|
|
|
robbos
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAustralia in general is a very conformist / rules-based country. People with flair, individualism and who act differently are generally ostracized or looked on negatively. It's a massive generalisation, but I think rings true, if this has any effect on how we produce footballers I don't know...probably minimal but it could make sense. I also just think we don't have the culture and the kids in the streets playing that breeds this type of footballer. It's all 2500k marketing camps. Which is probably a much more likely reason. yes mate, for sure there is so many pieces to the puzzle and the times. Another strange thing with all the football exposure/kids wearing Euro kits etcetc you'd think we'd be heading for that BOOM we/I've been waiting on for the last 30+ yrs but here we are. Yep $2500/3k wannabee camps, Individual training, seriously what a turn around. Once upon a time my ol man would struggle to buy me good boots, forget a LFC shirt as a gift OR APIA shirt BUT we as kids would be down the local oval smashing balls, my Mums plants were smashed up at home. I'm glad I encouraged my 2 sons (31/24) football is the game and they live and breath it as I do, they continously keep goign to kickabouts with mates. Now these budding fully kitted up and comers have the skills you'd die for then when going into camps they are trained out of their abilty having mimicked CR7/Messi/Neymar or whoever. yeah bloody oath. I was telling someone the other day how we used to make footballs with newspaper and sticky tape when I was little. They couldn't;t believe it lol A player that can dribble 1/2 the opposition squad is LOVED by his teammates (and the opponents try and kick three shade of shit out of him) but here he is a ball hog and not a team player.... we value different things here thats all. I was just thinking the same thing. You look at any good successful striker and there is an element of selfishness about them. I think we lack a bit of that. It's probably why we see so many foreign strikers doing well in the A-League. They know what they want and aren't afraid to take it. They'll take the shot on goal even when there is only a small gap and a player wide open at the far post to receive a pass. Which often gets results here, because the Aussie defenders and keepers are anticipating the pass. #9s and #10s are MEANT to be selfish bastards.... thats written in the laws of the game... well it should be :) hey in our current state I have no care what number a selfish player wears haha but yep, selfishness is needed and back yourself, thats the mentality of a winner. 'In our current state', LFC when did Australia produce strikers outside of the Dukes? Kennedy wasnt bad at it mate and little Timmy (although not a striker) certainly fits the brief as a goal hungry selfish player.... more of that is needed in my book. yer robbos, well ofcourse its been the trillion $ question for decades..... Don't know IF its us supporters never statisfied or our bars are looking at renowed EU players we've all admired that to date we lack producing. Yep we all agree Dukes was an out and out proven striker we admire (unlike some that don't), here he smoked it like no other to date and he did at EU Club level. NT I give the rope due to how we played ( + many complicated circumstances) that didn't produce a higher strike rate. Farina was a out and out striker, again like Dukes banged plenty in here and early years abroad but at NT, once again similar to Dukes lower strike rate. Yer Josh done his best, better than expected he put away important goals. Another not mentioned MSC Aloisi, he actually is around 50% strike rate at NT if I'm right having a glance. Good ol Peter Ollerton was another striker back in the day with a good local record and again about a 50% NT ratio. Yep throw in TC the un assuming un expected deliverer of goals no one expected long before. Therefore robbos - yep Dukes was the classiest front man act of them all, Aloisi doesn't get enough cred imo remembered more for the winning pen but his account isn't bad. Sure would have been nice to have higher strike rates way back then. Since the guys above and TC hanging up the boots we are sparse and lacking in the converting dept - incl midfielders who can put them away backing the blanks up front. Not until we have a sound proven balanced midfield that dictate/dominate periods of play, slide balls through behind the lines consistantly and player/s up front who hit the zone forcing the GK to make saves let alone hit the net ! or one like Nisbet right now dribble through and have a crack on target again and again. We even struggle putting corners consistantly hitting the 6yard box ffs. Don't know what the probs are or combinations of more, Rogic would bang some in from outside and more so beast it through the midfield, Mooy would creative havoc, - we haven't produced players like these guys as well atm. All is my armchair pov that would differ to many I suppose. Alosi was a decent striker, but nothing great, he will always be cherished for the penalty, but he was a journeyman back then for lower level clubs, he would struggle to get a gig in the top level today. We had 2 potential players that excelled at junior level but one Tombides passed away due to cancer & the other Bulut had well many other issues. The ones today is McGree & Irankunda, the latter yet to prove himself, but both have potential. Did you watch the recent doco on Dylan mate? (check it out below if not) So so so very very sad.... God we really are cursed down under sometimes, this boy could have done great things..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94FGFZ8hnzY very very sad.
|
|
|
|
|
Monoethnic Social Club
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 11K,
Visits: 0
|
+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xAustralia in general is a very conformist / rules-based country. People with flair, individualism and who act differently are generally ostracized or looked on negatively. It's a massive generalisation, but I think rings true, if this has any effect on how we produce footballers I don't know...probably minimal but it could make sense. I also just think we don't have the culture and the kids in the streets playing that breeds this type of footballer. It's all 2500k marketing camps. Which is probably a much more likely reason. yes mate, for sure there is so many pieces to the puzzle and the times. Another strange thing with all the football exposure/kids wearing Euro kits etcetc you'd think we'd be heading for that BOOM we/I've been waiting on for the last 30+ yrs but here we are. Yep $2500/3k wannabee camps, Individual training, seriously what a turn around. Once upon a time my ol man would struggle to buy me good boots, forget a LFC shirt as a gift OR APIA shirt BUT we as kids would be down the local oval smashing balls, my Mums plants were smashed up at home. I'm glad I encouraged my 2 sons (31/24) football is the game and they live and breath it as I do, they continously keep goign to kickabouts with mates. Now these budding fully kitted up and comers have the skills you'd die for then when going into camps they are trained out of their abilty having mimicked CR7/Messi/Neymar or whoever. yeah bloody oath. I was telling someone the other day how we used to make footballs with newspaper and sticky tape when I was little. They couldn't;t believe it lol A player that can dribble 1/2 the opposition squad is LOVED by his teammates (and the opponents try and kick three shade of shit out of him) but here he is a ball hog and not a team player.... we value different things here thats all. I was just thinking the same thing. You look at any good successful striker and there is an element of selfishness about them. I think we lack a bit of that. It's probably why we see so many foreign strikers doing well in the A-League. They know what they want and aren't afraid to take it. They'll take the shot on goal even when there is only a small gap and a player wide open at the far post to receive a pass. Which often gets results here, because the Aussie defenders and keepers are anticipating the pass. #9s and #10s are MEANT to be selfish bastards.... thats written in the laws of the game... well it should be :) hey in our current state I have no care what number a selfish player wears haha but yep, selfishness is needed and back yourself, thats the mentality of a winner. 'In our current state', LFC when did Australia produce strikers outside of the Dukes? Kennedy wasnt bad at it mate and little Timmy (although not a striker) certainly fits the brief as a goal hungry selfish player.... more of that is needed in my book. yer robbos, well ofcourse its been the trillion $ question for decades..... Don't know IF its us supporters never statisfied or our bars are looking at renowed EU players we've all admired that to date we lack producing. Yep we all agree Dukes was an out and out proven striker we admire (unlike some that don't), here he smoked it like no other to date and he did at EU Club level. NT I give the rope due to how we played ( + many complicated circumstances) that didn't produce a higher strike rate. Farina was a out and out striker, again like Dukes banged plenty in here and early years abroad but at NT, once again similar to Dukes lower strike rate. Yer Josh done his best, better than expected he put away important goals. Another not mentioned MSC Aloisi, he actually is around 50% strike rate at NT if I'm right having a glance. Good ol Peter Ollerton was another striker back in the day with a good local record and again about a 50% NT ratio. Yep throw in TC the un assuming un expected deliverer of goals no one expected long before. Therefore robbos - yep Dukes was the classiest front man act of them all, Aloisi doesn't get enough cred imo remembered more for the winning pen but his account isn't bad. Sure would have been nice to have higher strike rates way back then. Since the guys above and TC hanging up the boots we are sparse and lacking in the converting dept - incl midfielders who can put them away backing the blanks up front. Not until we have a sound proven balanced midfield that dictate/dominate periods of play, slide balls through behind the lines consistantly and player/s up front who hit the zone forcing the GK to make saves let alone hit the net ! or one like Nisbet right now dribble through and have a crack on target again and again. We even struggle putting corners consistantly hitting the 6yard box ffs. Don't know what the probs are or combinations of more, Rogic would bang some in from outside and more so beast it through the midfield, Mooy would creative havoc, - we haven't produced players like these guys as well atm. All is my armchair pov that would differ to many I suppose. Alosi was a decent striker, but nothing great, he will always be cherished for the penalty, but he was a journeyman back then for lower level clubs, he would struggle to get a gig in the top level today. We had 2 potential players that excelled at junior level but one Tombides passed away due to cancer & the other Bulut had well many other issues. The ones today is McGree & Irankunda, the latter yet to prove himself, but both have potential. Did you watch the recent doco on Dylan mate? (check it out below if not) So so so very very sad.... God we really are cursed down under sometimes, this boy could have done great things..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94FGFZ8hnzY
|
|
|
|
|
LFC.
|
|
Group: Forum Members
Posts: 13K,
Visits: 0
|
yep and thats where we are at in our current state - not much :) McGree a AM and Irakunda on the flanks. We wait and see where the potential shines through 3/4yrs on. I can't be the judge and jury IF any of the ol school make or break in modern game for at the same time they would be linking with very different styles of players they used to work with........we haven't had many great players but for the 2 obvious ones you mention in the past so Aloisi does make the general Roo standards. Bulut isn't even worth mentioning, lasted moments and could have been a fizzer in the end like countless promising players in the past.
Love Football
|
|
|
|