Holman, Beauchamp, North - dont rate em!


What do you think about the FourFourTwo article Pim: Why I Picked My Roos?
HERE'S what Australian coach Pim Verbeek said about he 31 players he selected for his preliminary World Cup squad:

Have your say.

Thats nice that you don't rate Holman the thing is the coach does and so does his big club he plays regularly for. Surely 2 coaches cant be wrong and us couch potatoes right ?

Three Comments:
A) He definitely should have chosen Mitch Langerak over Eugene.
B)Rhys Williams is class.
C)Ease off on Holman. Everyone says he's sh*t because they think it's cool to follow the crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1mvlNK3aG8

Colossimo should have been in the squad instead of Beauchamp. Interesting to see Carle there even though we would have had a pretty solid midfield, I can see why PV brung him in just in case Kewell is injured for the tournament we would need a creative player to try and break up the rugged midfield of Germany.

Good to see Oar there, I think he is more there for practice with the senior squad more so than him having a realistic chance of being selected. Again, a possible inclusion because of the status of Kewell's fitness?

Holman may have been performing well at club level but has proven time and time again that he is hopeless when playing for Australia.

Haha russjb.

MOAR MOORE ROARRRRRR!!!!!!

Holman is probably the most technically gifted player in our squad at the moment. He just needs to improve on his work rate.

Thoughts?

i think you'll find that Holman is in fact one of the hardest workers in the national team. all i think he needs to improve on is some of his decision making. i think he is a lot better than people give him credit for. but he still does make some silly errors that he really needs to gid rid of from his game

I like the individual comments. thats a good touch

i think players like lowry, vidosic and holland will probably be like milligan at the last world cup, go with the team for the experience and train with the squad

Holman!!! get off his back ....FFS
I have only seen him play in about 5 to 6 games and the more I see him play the more I think he should be playing in the special Olympics.
My grandma can control the ball better than him

He seems to give a clear indication that Holland and Oar are there only to get experience and wont be in the 23. Otherwise it seems up for grabs.

Wow dude. Pot, kettle, Langerak.

He has played a handful of games and done okay. How the fuck would you pick him over somebody who has been consistently the best domestic goalkeeper for at least two seasons, plus exceptional in Adelaide's last two ACL campaigns, and hasn't put a fut wrong when representing Australia???

Thank you anth, finally someone who agrees that Langerak is way too overhyped. so a big club wanted him doesn't mean hes a better player then Galekovic. or anyone..

No real surprises.

Go Socceroos is all I can say!

Holman will score the crucial goal in our World Cup campain.

its not that bad. although north and beauchamp should not be there, the midfielders and forwards are spot on.

feel sorry for bosnar and spiranovic though

Edited by COYS: 11/5/2010 03:03:46 PM

So russjb, in posting that youtube link, what you're saying is that Holman didn't do anything to give up a goal in a game Australia drew... Is this your reason to keep him or lose him?

Seriously:



He played 10 games in 3 months and was then sacked!

Vidosic will go he's playing more then most of our Senior guys i hope lowry goes. Not keen on Moore his shocking Miroslav.Klosa is going to run rings around him.

Its Acutally good were playing germany 1st for Pim can drop the old bat for the Ghana match.

So the next decision is who are the eight that miss the cut

Assuming no injuries - for me it's

1. Galekovic
2. Beauchamp or North (likely Beauchamp - North more versatile)
3. Garcia
4. Carle
5. Holland
6. Jedinak (tough call I know)
7. Lowry
8. Oar or Vidosic (another tough one - I'm leaning Oar but would love to see him in the squad)

If Carle makes it on that plan im going to cry he's shocking i dont know why people think he's any good he's team recently got relegated, he's slow and he takes to many touchs on the ball. It might look good but it's ineffective

Milligan is an applude for rubbish he's a decent player but he's playing a shocking league he was to lazy to try make the big time fled to china for money and its playing the J2 league for money the Asian must be laughing at us.

North its a no hoper

Holland is another overated drop kick.

Moore is the biggest drop kick in the bunch, just retier already your time is gone FFS

disapointed not to see sterj in their but pim did warn him and i rekon bosnar should have got a go

Pim is not as dim as he sims!!

Can someone please tell me what Holman has done in the green and gold? He runs around like Pim has inserted a vibe in his back passage FFS- hopeless. Carle is kidding -a quality show pony. Beauchamp and Oar are lucky -very lucky.

Ruka is quality and if Harry pulls his middle leg again Ruka is a real option late off the bench. His pace is sizzling.

Moore is my biggest worry in defence. Hes valuable sure but is slower than a wet week.

I still seriously think we have the cattle to get us to the last 8 but will need the rub of the green. Cahill is obviously our trump card and is my early tip for player of the tournament.

Crystal Palace did not get relegated

Holland is a young player who has potential, thats why hes in the squad. he has very litle chance of making the final 23, but along with Oar, being in the camp will be good for him. he is not a drop kick.

North is average.

Im not a fan of Milligan but he has done well when needed imo.

Moore shouldnt be there. Bosnar should of been infront of North, Milligan and Moore

Quaker I'm posting it to show why we should keep him. It's an example of his excellent footballing mind and technique. It shows his ability to take the "easy" pass when necessary and not look for the wonderball all the time. Show's his ability to hold up the ball with his back to the opponent and also shows his willingness to chase and FIGHT for the ball.

...

ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Russjb I think you must have mild autism as the video you posted clearly shows the complete OPPOSITE of what you said there.

I'm with Quaker holman is terrible and should not get a look in.

i have seen him training live at az alkmaar
they had a training game to work on shape against a shadow side and he played as a no.10
he was brilliant
he made darting runs, got in behind, put good crosses, but could never finish
he looked the BEST player

i was one of the people like many that bad mouthed holman
but now that i have looked at him i like him

i watched him that weekend and he was brilliant scoring a great curling effort from outside the box

look at how many others made the squad playing in lower leagues and not even playing

Jedinak should be in the final 23, he has been getting heaps of game time and has been playing well.

cannot believe Brad Jones is our third goalkeeper. The guy makes way too many mistakes, regardless of his excellent shot-stopping ability, and its only been recently that he got back in the Middlesbrough first team. Everyone remember his one and only appearance for Australia? ugh
on the other hand is Galekovic, proven for Australia, played at a high level in the ACL and the keeper of the year for the past two seasons. So what if he plays a lower level than Brad, hes way more consistant.
and i would have taken Langerak as our 4th for the experience as he's clearly one for the future

As if he picked "butter fingers Jones" over Galekovic, not happy. Pim must really hate the A-league.

Bouzanis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>daylight>>>>>>>>>>>Langerak

Sad that the two players that impressed the most on me in the HAL wasnt picked...

Durante and David Williams

On form you would have thought Eddy Bosnar, Sasa Ognenovski and Joel Griffiths should have made the cut

North? I thought fringe players were supposed to prove their mettle through regular game time at club level. Sucks for those that did put in the hard yards.

Love the Youtube video made available by russjb on the first blog page. Does not show off the ball work by Holman, but still i think the footage of Holman speaks for itself. Constantly screwing everything up through poor skill and lack of coordination. Classic! and apparently hes better than Sterjoski! give me a break!

Galekovic, Beauchamp, Garcia, Carle, Holland, Jedinak and Carney will be the ones to miss out. The last spot is up in the air.

Edited by afromanGT: 11/5/2010 11:22:22 PM

Everybody remembers Holman missing goals from good positions. Therefore he has been labelled profligate. There is some truth here.

What a lot of punters don't notice is his tremendous off the ball work rate. When Australia implements the full pressing game or squeezing, which disturbs opposition build ups high up the pitch, Holman is very effective individually, and, as part of the collective unit. He can sustain it for long periods.

Holman also creates effective offensive running, creating diagonal passing lanes for team mates. If he isn't passed to, he creates diversionary running, which can result in a grateful teammmate receiving the ball instead. Importantly, he has the ability to drag defenders out of position.

In the offensive and defensive transitions, he is is quick to get into position, to open a passing lane, or close a passing lane down.

Holman also creates sufficient pressure to cause turnovers for grateful team mates to receive the ball.

The team shape can remain more compact. This is because Holman can cover enough ground to bridge the gap between defence and attack. He is capable of keeping that ideal distancing of 10 to 15 metres between players. He links well with defence and attack.

Some remember some efforts when he fails to control the ball. Superficially this can appear as a poor first touch. What has occurred is that Holman often gets to balls few other Soccerooos would reach, given his pace and stamina.

Edited by Decentric: 11/5/2010 11:48:08 PM

I've been analysing matches for the Socceroos for a year and a half. Holman has a number of strengths. See the previous post.

Unfortunately, I've only got one Socceroo match up on Stattoz, but I've covered a lot of others with Holman in the team. I can see why coaches and team mates like working with him. He does a lot of the hard work to make others look good.

Edited by Decentric: 11/5/2010 11:55:04 PM

The biggest problem with Holman is that Verbeek treats him as undroppable. He's been capped more than any other player under Verbeek. And that's not right, even when he has a bad game he starts the next game. He's Australia's very own Lucas Leiva.

He moves really well, but doesn't use the ball well enough for the positions he gets himself in. If he had the technical ability to match his ability to read the play and run he'd be a truly dangerous player. But his passing is mediocre and makes Carle look like Xabi Alonso, and his finishing makes Robbie Fowler's embarrassing misses look almost forgivable.

His ability to work betwen the lines is useful, especailly when we're playing teams like Germany with very regimented ideas of how we're going to take to the pitch and where we need to zonally mark, but he's not going to have the technical ability to back that up. If anything he's trying to be too fast.

I'm not sure Holman has had a bad game in the last 18 months, apart from missing goals.

Often it can be a case of playing reasonably well individually, but failing to combine cohesively with team mates, and , playing as an integral unit as in a match plan.

Sterjovski has had a few bad games.

Kewell, Cahill, Coyne and Carney were shocking against Bahrain In Bahrain, when Bahrain should have won.

Kemp was shown up technically, but was okay defensively.

McDonald has been less clinical around goal than for his club.

Kennedy has struggled if defenders have matched him in the air.

Carle has sometimes struggled defensively.

Carney doesn't win enough one on one duels for a left back.

Kisnorbo has displayed inadequate technique with the ball at his feet.

Jedinak has been wrong footed too often in midfield. He could be an option at centre back.

I can't think of many other instances where players have made a plethora of mistakes.

No way will Jedinak miss out. He is now one of our best players. Went from playing for the Mariners and slotted straight into Turkey. Verbeek loves him because he plays defensive and Jedinak is good in defense while still being able to score. He might not be first XI but he has to be in the squad. Still can't believe North and Beauchamp made it ahead of Coyne, Colossimo, Spiranovic, but if Verbeek or his scouts have seen them then all then lets give them the benefit of the doubt.

Holman had an absolute shocker against Indonesia and was woeful against Japan, scarcely got a touch in the second half IIRC.

Carle just struggles full stop. But that's not much of an argument given that he hasn't turned out in the green and gold in almost three years.

Carney is a terrible left back, he can't handle his man and when he's got the ball he runs straight at his opponent for some strange reason.

But that's beside the point. Looking at other players and saying 'well they play badly too' is no defence for Holman's poorer showings. Especially players like Carle, Carney, Kisnorbo, Jedinak, etc who play bugger all games.

^ You are just plain exaggerating when it comes to Holman's appearances - from memory, when we have a full strength or near full strength squad, Holman rarely starts and is 'usually' more an impact sub for later in games. I'm not saying he hasn't started 'some' games for Australia, but for the most part, most of his caps have been substitute appearances coming on after the 60 minute mark or so.

And again, you are wrong that he's played for the Socceroos more than any other, over the qualification campaign - Schwarzer, Wilkshire and likely some others are those who have featured for the NT the most, over qualification.

Again, in our full strength line up, Holman is not a first XI player and is generally only an option off the bench.

And for a few of us who defend/don't attack Holman, it's not as if we aren't all mega fans of him either, but as a still relatively young player (25/26), playing with a top Eredivisie club, including Champions League football, VERY FEW Aussies in their early to mid 20s can claim that, including some of our very best. As has been said, Pim Verbeek, Ronald Koeman, Louis Van Gaal etc... can't be soo wrong. But even they would admit Holman is no world beater - he IS the kind of player he is, but he's still not out of place amongst our elite pool of talent, our NT squad, more so than a few others, who receive far less debate really.

And lol, like it or not, given his age, Holman will be amongst our NT's squad for a few years yet - He may even become one of our key players as a 30 year old veteran, come the 2014 World Cup campaign!

Since his debut in 2007, Holman has missed just 11 of Australia's 37 competative games. And of those, just three of the games he has missed has had a European XI on the pitch, two of those he was injured for.

He's made 16 of his 29 apps off the bench, granted but he's started seven out of twelve caps under Verbeek and missed just one european XI match. No other outfield player has a record that compares with this. Whether he's playing well or not, Holman makes it onto the pitch.

Pim Verbeek could be very wrong. He doesn't grasp the concept of attacking football. Van Gaal wasn't playing him, either for the record.

When Holman is 30 he'll still have his complete lack of technical ability, and he'll lose most of his pace that makes him semi-useful.

I counted 10 players who started in the A-League. Not a bad effort for a new competition.

It's a shame Burns didn't make the cut, but maybe for the Asian Cup.

You obviously know what your talking about. It’s very fashionable to bag Holman, the A League, big Arnie [although I agree with that one] etc.

Coaches who have forgotten more about Football than the arm chair knockers will ever know, rate him.

Ill listen to them thanks!

My thoughts as well.

In Brazil MOST of the 1st team will have played in the A League and thats why it has to be a success. Without a strong domestic league the Socceroos will always struggle.

Unfortunatly hundreds of thousands of Football supporters just don't get it!!

I think it was to more of an issue with his wages. I saw an interview with Aad De Mos at the time, the coach of Kavala. He categorically enunciated Moore was his best player at Kavala.

Because of this he was made captain by De Mos, but the club president sacked Moore.