Opening up a whole new can of worms Tyson, but interesting comments.

I'll throw this at you for thought - a lot of the sons and daughthers of European immigrants here in Australia who are actively promoting the game at present may be annoyed by the fact that the 'common' Australian is stero-typing the Italian team as 'divers' and Germans as 'clinical' and so on.

Let's just stick to the sport at hand, and go from there.

DS

I dont think anyone has said that no-one else ever dives. But this is an arcticle about the Italian captain complaining about a NZ player making more of a challenge than needed to be made. Not an article on all the simulation and bad sportsmanship that are rife in this tournament. And as such, I think some of the critism is deserved.

One last point, someone earlier mentioned backhanded racism re: some attitudes towards diving. It's interesting because I couldn't half help but sense a similar undertone in a lot of comments within this very thread with constant comments about Australian's being ignorant, bogan, racist et al. Their does seem to be some undertone of an Australian being unable to comment on a game that, as Australians, they clearly shouldn't or couldn't understand.

I understand that there are certain eggball codes where this may be the case but for the large part Australians and Australian football fans for the most part do not represent those characterises.

I agree with your sentiment, and as I said it is not the Italians, at least in my view, that are responsible it is all teams and a host players at this world cup that are causing the disatisfaction amongst fans. Of course the blame should be leveled squarely at the refs and FIFA in my view as they have the power to stamp it out of the game, or, at the very least, hinder its prevelance.

The video I posted was merely in response to your comment re: De Rossi. There are a multitude of other videos from this world cup alone that could have been posted.

Re: your last point I don't think anyone is more accepting of Brazillian players play acting, there is nothing worse then seeing some of the worlds most exciting player carrying on like idiots however the frustration is with all players from all teams. After all why do you think Sam, Santos and Ed named their lastest award the Rivaldo! :lol:

Great post.

I get your point, and I too wish that every Italian player was like a Baresi, a Maldini, a Buffon, a Riva, a Rivera, a Meazza and so on through the ages - footballers of immaculate skill AND integrity to burn. Every azzurri supporter does. I'm just pointing out that the anti-Italy vitriole being spewed forth into the Australian webosphere is fuelled by frenzy disproportionate to reality. It is now beyond objective analysis to all but the most level-headed football observers.

You post a video of De Rossi in response to my post, as if I am claiming that Italians NEVER simulate and I need to be proven wrong. No azzurri supporter is blind to Italy's flaws, and that's the key point. I don't give a toss what people say about the Azzurri, as long as they can be sure there own houses are in order. This is rarely the case.

A You Tube search on De Rossi would also reveal him to be quite a good sport (alerting the ref that his goal against Messina was a handball for example). If only Henry had done this, the tragedy that is France at the moment would never have eventuated. We can find video instances like this on almost ANY player. Dare I say it, even some Australians.

You say that Italians shouldn't have to resort to play acting and I agree. But answer me this? Why are people so much more accepting of it from the Brazilians? Over the ages, and most probably still, they are by far the worst offenders. Mixed in with diving they throw in hand balls, cynical challenges and Copperfeldian trickery. Now they REALLY shouldn't have to resort to it, given they are so damn good at football.

+1
Watch a Lazio v Roma derby and then tell me how Italians play!!!

And i do miss that little Serie A wrap up show SBS had too...
If anyone has seen the one Setanta has you'd know why :roll:

Edited by davide82: 23/6/2010 03:36:02 PM

Good post, one of the disadvantages of promoting the game to the masses is that stereo-typing occurs, which is a back-handed form of racism if you ask me.

To stereo-type the Italians as 'divers' and 'cheats' is an insult to the Italians, and shows our behaviour as not good at all.

As someone else pointed out, the Germans were booked for diving against Australia, which makes the stereo-typing of the Italians as divers ludicrous. Australians (your general bogan type) have probably watched Italy play twice, vs Aus in 2006, and now vs NZ.

Give the average bogan a live Serie A game from Italy, like SBS used to do many years ago, and see how they play.

Say what you want, ppl in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, italy live in a freakin BIG glass house!!

not sure what the hell happened there...

Edited by General Ashnak: 23/6/2010 03:12:45 PM

I can still remember being in shock at Materazzi's send off, it was clearly not a red card offence - maybe that is coming back to haunt us at this World Cup...

LOL, that barrel roll inspired me to emulate that on my living room floor - in laughter.

It is only bad if its happening to me ;) :lol:

What's funny is as much as I cursed my defenders doing it to me when i trotted back to defend corners I always had an armful of waist or a fistful of shirt or a nice body check or elbow for a player running past.

The fact is its so different talking on here to when you're out there running around at a million miles an hour. Instinct can take over and its not always pretty nor what your reasoned response would be lets say if we had time to type it out on a keyboard from a work desk :d

Shirt tugging in the box needs to be policed as well, what started as a way of being aware of where your marker is has progressed into so much more.

But I will say that was never going to get to the ball and so decided that taking a tumble was his best option in the circumstances.

Re: that video
yes he DID carry on like a pork chop a tad unnecessarily but he did have the back of his calf/ankly scraped by the Paraguay player.
Probably not enough to fall over and not enough to hurt THAT much but still...
I'd have probably pointed it out to the ref as well as well AND called the Paraguyan a c##t for his troubles.

The point is I too hate the rolling around and the simulation but two things
a) the italians dont do it any more than most of the top teams/players in the world. It only seems that way because sinse Mr Grosso's tumble so many Australian football fans seem to make it their mission to hate Italy so much.
b) as for the penalty he won; he was CLEARLY being held back by the shirt and being stopped from getting to the backpost for a tap in. That is a foul and a penalty. As a striker(more former than current I'll admit) i got sick to death of defenders getting away with every dirty trick in the book to stop me from getting to goal scoring opportunities. People seem to forget that THAT IS CHEATING TOO but it's at least I guess seen to be a physical, manly way of cheating in our culture. If you dont fall the ref doesnt see it and it goes unpunished.

i HATE HATE HATE the rolling around and asking for cards and all that crap but I have no problem with letting the ref know when i am blatantly fouled.

To sum up : Italy are no worse or better in this regard than many many other countries even those that are lauded on here. Australians perhaps less guilty on the whole but that isn't really the point.

There was only one game where diving has been punished, ironically it was when we played Germany and the yellow cards handed out to Germany were for diving.

But what about the previous game and this little gem:

[youtube][/youtube]

It has nothing to do with the fact that Italy have won four world cups, that is a fantastic record and they are a fabulous footballing nation. The frustration comes from the fact that they are clearly one of the worlds best teams and don't really need to resort to that type of play acting.

I think people are just fed up with the amount of simulation that is taking place during this world cup, from all teams not just Italy, and the fact that the refs seem to contintue to buy into it.

Confucius say....."you can't reason someone out of a position, they haven't arrived at through reason."

The whole Italian diving cheating thing has, in this country, exceeded the bounds of reason and is unlikely to return there for a long, long time - if ever. It is the sad endeavour of jaded football fans who have made their decision well before appraising the facts, and when these decisions are built on prejudice, single mindedness and harnessed through hatred, they are unfortunately, unalterable.

Wow! We have amongst us a bunch of forumites who find themselves in the unique position of beliving their views are right, and the views of the opposition (in this case Italy, even if its not us that's actually playing them) are wrong. How novel.

If i'm not mistaken, Cannavaro had an abolsutely stellar World Cup in 2006 on every front - including fair play - and is considered in italy and around the globe a footballer of the highest order. Up there with Maldini and Buffon (are these guys really Italian?) In De Rossi's case, is he the biggest cheat in the competition? Of course not. His only sin was to accentuate what in reality was indeed an infringement and therefore a penalty. Could he have done it with more grace, or not at all? Absolutely. But any reasonable observer would note that this is but a trifle in comparison to what has been going on in this sorry world cup....Ivory Coast, Chile and Greece cases in point for engaging in seriously low acts to influence red cards.Villa's slap to teh face. Fabiano's double hand ball. I could go on and on...but nah...its just easier to vent on the Italians.

Four cups in the cupboard my friend. When you're a bigger target, you're going to cop more fire. Just accept it and move on, its the price you pay for following a successful team.

What a load of shit. Ignorant Australians? Mate take a look at the post you just wrote, ingnorance at it's best Australian fans blah blah... Australian people blah blah blah. As with most cultures Australian's tend to have certain characteristics, in the present case a particular dislike for diving, or to put it more bluntly cheating. Now that's not to say it doesn't happen with the Australian team from time to time, but the reality is there are certain national terms that have a disposition to diving and hence cheating. For reasons stated this doesn't sit well with the Australian public in general.

No one is claiming that Australia should win the world cup, I think you'll find that most are quite happy just to have our boys there and will be more than happy to see them come back with their heads held high after putting in what could be classed as an 'Australian' performance, win lose or draw. The media on the other hand may be a little different, but to be honest the media in most instances are scum in any event.

Like it or not the Italians are widely regarded, within and outside Australia, as a team that goes to ground all too easily. You might not like that but that is the case. As far as people of -Australians supporting the nation of their parents maybe that comes down to their feeling an affiliation with the country, maybe they support both Australia and the national team of their family history, maybe they are just glory hunters that see their second or first country as having a better chance of winning the world cup, maybe they don't like supporting a team that in all liklihood will struggle to win a game.. who knows.

I can see where Erebus is coming from, but I don't entirely agree.

Is it wrong to suggest that it is hypocritical that an Italian player is complaining about diving and play-acting? Looking at recent evidence and games, I don't think so. It would be wrong to claim they are the only ones engaging in this activity, but evidence is there that many in the Italian team HAVE simulated now and in the recent past. They are not the only ones, and I'm not trying to make out Italy are spawns of satan.

Regardless of whether or not Australia employs similar tactics, the fact is that it is hypocritical coming from Cannavaro.

Nobody is claiming that Italy is at fault for our current campaign. We know we were underprepared.

And making a mass judgement on 'Australian football fans' based on <20 comments is unfair to be honest.

I don't mean to wind you up or start an argument, but this is just where I stand on the issue. :). Take it with a grain of salt. :P

Edited by imnofreak: 23/6/2010 12:55:06 PM

DIVEDIVEDIVEDIVEDIVE WAAAH DIVE is all I read there.

italian complaining about dirty playing.....


my word, look at your team first dude.

In a word: Yes. [-(








































:lol:

I Agree, Fabio Cannavaro and a number of other Italian players are just overpaid whining cheats.

One of the best moments of the match was when he got turned inside out by an 18 year old kid, the look on his face was priceless.

I will admit that Fallon should have been booked for his first challange but after that the Italians were diving whenever our players went near them.

As Fallon said to the Press after the game "The Italians need to stop behaving like little girls", although I do think that is an insult to little girls they are more like babies.

Yeah because Kewell never goes down easily huh?

Didn't Neill come out the other day and say that Aussies are too nice and should learn how to manipulate the rules? Theres no point in riding a challenge, then losing the ball when you can go down after illegal contact and win a free kick.

If it was your own team, none of you would be complaining. The hypocrisy in this place is unbelievable sometimes.

reminder: Bresciano in 2006 doing a 3 quarter half pike after not being touched, resulting in Materazzi getting sent off.

But he is Italian too I guess huh? :roll: :roll:

meh. And people wonder why -Australians go for the nation of their parents birth rather than Australia. Its because a lot of the Australian football fans are frakking ignorant, close-minded tools that think that Australia has some kind of divine right to be in and win the world cup, all off the back of a 1 win lucky 2006 world cup. They and the team have been too busy talking about "last time" instead of worrying and focusing on this time. Talk all you want of Grosso's "dive", De Rossi's "dive", dodgey Italian refs and what not. It just takes away the focus of the real problems facing Australian football. Lack of development and world class players coming through the ranks to take over the reins and a boring useless coach who basically screwed the 2010 campaign on his awesome decision to play an unfamiliar formation and players.

But I guess its Italy's fault huh?

/rant

ehhh boppeti boopeti

Carnivarro should be ashamed of him self for his sad pathetic playacting.

Exactly. There are already rules in place to stop this. It's a matter of adequately policing them.

Cheers timmy.

haha nice video too afro. Missed that game :(