"There are five South American teams - all in the quarter-finals - "
pretty sure Chile were knocked out by Brazil.
Last time I checked, Netherlands, Spain and Germany were European and Ghana was African. Has something changed?


What do you think about the FourFourTwo article Future Unclear Over World Cup Places?
THE HAGGLING over each continent's World Cup places will begin in earnest as soon as this tournament is over with Asia and South America both fearing they may lose out.

Have your say.

Oceania will not be given a full place. The only team with a hope of qualifying from Oceania is NZ, and for all the feel good stories about their world cup, their shots on target you could count on one hand. I like NZ, and think ceania should join Asia, but there is no way Oceania deserves a full spot.
Also, I dont think the half spot should be taken from CONMEBOL. The team that finished 6th for this qualifying was Ecuador. A very good football team.
I think the allocations are fine atm. Europe perhaps has too many, but Europe is the powerbase of football, so that will not change.

Concacaf doesn't deserve it's half spot. There's a case it doesn't deserve 3 either.

Africa have 1 too many.

Africa have one to many at this cup, because of South Africa's direct place. 5, or maybe 4 1/2 is about right. 3 1/2 for Concacaf seems at least half a spot too much, but who would you give that place to? UEFA has, perhaps, too many, but that wont change. AFC have 4 1/2, and I dont think we deserve another spot or half spot. Oceania, definatly not. Conmebol easily has the quality to give them another half spot, but that would mean that at least half the confederation always qualifies.

Leave it as it is, with that one floating place for the host nation.

Edited by villaboy: 1/7/2010 12:51:28 PM

Here's what I tthink will happen

An extra 8 spots will be added


* UEFA (Europe) - 16(13) berths
* CAF (Africa) - 6.5(5) berths
* AFC (Asia) and - 5.5(4.5) berths for AFC countries, with the sixth going to the
winners of an AFC-CAF playoff
* OFC (Oceania)1(.5)
* CONMEBOL (South America) - 5.5(4.5) berths
* CONCACAF (North and Central America and Caribbean) - 4.5(3.5) berths
* 1 berth for host


groups will be of five instead of four.

Edited by joffa: 1/7/2010 01:09:26 PM

Edited by joffa: 1/7/2010 01:13:42 PM

Honduras didn't do well BUT Costa Rica are more than useful opposition

Competitive in 2002 and 2006 and only lost out in the playoff to Uruguay - even scoring away in South America

USA and Mexico are good sides



The beef with Asia is that there are no teams outside South Korea, Japan and Australia who can out up a fight in the world cup. All teams who have qualified since 2002 outside them have been embarrassed on the big stage

South Korea were quality but Japan play some ugly football

I would like to see something like this:

Host - 1 spot
UEFA - 10 spots, plus 5 playoffs.
CAF - 5 spots, plus 1 playoff.
AFC - 4 spots, plus 1 playoff.
OFC - 0 spots, plus 1 playoff.
CONCACAF - 3 spots, plus 1 playoff.
CONMEBOL - 4 spots, plus 1 playoff.

Each confederations (bar UEFA's) playoff is against UEFA opposition.

If the AFC are worried then they should move to swallow up the OFC or allow the top two Oceania teams into Asian Group stages.

I think it is about right as it is. African football seems to be going backwards and Asian football is improving, not sure there is a need to change the spots though.

Holy shit, I don't think I have ever agreed with you before, but do this time!

The host nation spot simply can transfer from South Africa to Brazil and the other numbers just stay the same. Otherwise, Europe could lose one or two spots if other regions deserve more, but I actually think it is just about right. That said, i support Asia absorbing Oceania and getting 5 spots in total.

That's a politically satisfying outcome for everyone, although it will increase the costs of hosting the tournament. You could be on to something Joffa.

increase the groups to 5. It will make shit more fun ;)

Hmmmmmm.... Interesting. It throws up some questions.

I know its a hypothetical, but..... When do you think they would/could implement this??
How many from each group to go through?? Would the cup have to go for longer, or would teams just play one more match within the same amount of time?? How many yellow cards would be allowed in the group stage before suspension?? Would squad size increase??
If you are thinking it could be brought in for Brazil

Buckleys

I don't like the idea of increasing the world cup spots an extra 8.

the costs of hosting a world cup are high enough as it is. just to keep all federations happy is shite.. I don't want more shittier teams in!

I dont have a problem with oceania getting a full spot because it just seems unfair that a federation can be kept from qualifying but it does seem to be the least strongest, followed by the concacaf and africa which i believe have 0.5/1 spot to many.

the Afc should at least be given an extra 0.5/1 from either concacaf and/or africa.

I don't agree with oceania being joined together with the AFC especially with NZ signalling interest in emulating the same move Australia did. Why I don't agree is that the distances of travel is already great and this move will add strain to teams like samoa. If oceania were ever to be implemented into the AFC, the AFC would need to be broken up in my opinion.

West asia (re-insert bloody israel back into that fold and maybe even put russia and ex-russian states back into that shit - though that'll probably piss people off) and then have an east Asian/Oceania confederation. It'll never happen but including oceania into the current AFC seems just as daunting with travel.



Edited by Bryan: 2/7/2010 12:09:54 AM

Edited by Bryan: 2/7/2010 12:20:07 AM

Why. Asia had 2/4 qualifiers go through to the knockout stage. Concacaf had 2/3 go through. Africa had 1 go through, but Ivory Coast were in the toughest group and were only knocked out because of Portugal's big win and Brazil and Portugal playing the most boring match of the finals. South Africa only went out on GD and Nigeria were unlucky not to go through, considering if they had beaten South Korea they would have gone through.

CONCACAF and Africa really don't deserve a spot taken off them and no one else deserves another spot tbh. Asia's 5th placed team has to play off against Oceania and if they can't beat them then they don't deserve to go through.

It's fine the way it is and I really see no reason for changing it.

As I have said before, the travel for PI nations is not a hinderance when it comes to Rugby, where they go all the way to Europe.

Agree with most of that.

The only thing I would do is absorb Oceania into AFC. Oceania is stagnant. They will not improve unless they are given more regular and even competition. Yes, moving into the AFC will create some problems of its own, but if Fifa are dedicated to the development of football worldwide, this is the only way to dvelop the Oceania nations.

sensible and really can't argue that, so don't get me wrong, if this article hadn't popped up i'll be all for it to stay the same way for as long as im alive but it just seems like the confederations are the ones kicking up a stink. I just put it out there especially with Oceania, as I do believe something needs to be done as it really is a forgotten confederation.

the reasons why are related to the bs whinge that the middle-eastern teams had when there was no representative from the AFC in the world cup after they got their arses outplayed by the rest of asia but also by oceanian champions NZ and unfortunately for bahrain did not deserve to progress to the world cup which is fair enough. But if there was something to give to asia it seemed most likely to come from either africa or concacaf if oceania were to stay separate.

same shit, different smell, if africa can't beat oceania then they don't deserve to go through either.



im not sure how big a budget they have for rugby and how frequent their games are in europe, let alone their budget for their national soccer team but fair call.


Edited by Bryan: 2/7/2010 01:01:14 AM

What are you guys going on about the costs of the world cup being too high if the groups were expanded to 5?

Do you not realise the ludicrous amount of money the host nation makes from tourism? If the competition ran at a net loss, do you honestly think any sane country would apply to host a tournament and build stadiums specifically for it?

To quote a research paper aimed at predicting the profits:

"The study found that the event would contribute more than R21 billion to the economy, create in excess of 150 000 new jobs, and generate around R7 billion in taxes for government."

The author does have a few criticism of his own estimate, quoting that the government directly spent 2.3 billion on stadium construction, but the overall stimulus to the economy from the 2010 World Cup would definitely cause a positive effect on GDP.

The benefits of a longer tournament far outweigh the costs. Don't forget that more teams implies that more countries will be interested in the World Cup, hence greater sponsorship value (which contributes a lot to revenue).




Edited by Bill Murray: 2/7/2010 01:33:09 AM

NZ should move to Asia (and Aesan) proper. The rest of the Oceania teams should be given a pre-qualifying stage, which gives one team the right to enter at the early knock-out stages of the various Asian Qualifications (Asian Cup and WCQs), as well as a single spot in the Aesan tournaments.

Mate I'm sorry to say but it just won't happen.
I've read all the arguments for a 40 team wc many a time and in the end they just dont stack up
We have a wc that is already very large in size and at its maximum length to fit in with all existing fixtures
Any expansion will devalue the product,and put unnecessary cost and strain on the host nation
Many of us can only afford to go to a WC for a fortnight but some are lucky enough to go for the whole event.Why would you alienate your core support by making it impossible to even attend your teams group games ffs
Great concept for those that may never ever attend one


Edited by girtXc: 2/7/2010 10:11:18 AM

Based on this WC, I think all confederations should keep the same amount of spots, with South Africa's host spot simply transferring to Brazil (ie Africa back to 5 spots, CONMEBOL 4.5 spots + Brazil).

I wouldn't think 40 teams could work for quite a while yet. As we see with Australia's 2022 bid, the timing for availablity of the stadiums needs to be known years ahead.

hmmmm I think this could end up being an essay length post so we'll see how it goes.

We assume that since places are allocated the way they are it is to assume competition is even.
Therefore we can assume that if every team in the competition is even then half of the teams should go through. Each confed should be represented by half the number of teams in the second round as in the first

Confed   Teams   Expected Got %
Asia   4   2   2   0
Africa   6   3   1   -67
N Amer   3   1.5   2   +33
S Amer   5   2.5   5   +100
UEFA   13   6.5   6   -8
OFC   1   0.5   0   -50

If that makes any sense then you can see that Africa should have had 3 teams through but only had one while south america should have had 2 or 3 teams through but got 5. That would mean that one spot from Africa should be given to South America. Asia and UEFA were almost spot on. USA and Mexico more than the 3 places for North America

The thing is outside the top few teams of Asia and North America there is no one. Giving them more spots to allow poorer teams into the WC is probably not a good idea. If anyone deserves more spots I would say its UEFA and South America as there mediocre teams are still more than competeive against even the top nations of other confeds.



I like this good idea. Though Maybe CONMEBOL needs another spot take one from CAF.

Asian football is not improving. Apart from South Korea, Japan and Australia being competitive the standard of the rest is awful

South Korea and Japan have improved due to their huge populations and investment into football since they won the right to host the world cup

Outside of them since 2002 Saudi Arabia, China, Iran and North Korea have been nothing but doormats for other teams to walk over

I think they try to find a balance between having the best teams and growing the game in new areas, like Asia.


If 1 out of 4 Asian teams at the WC is a 'doormat', that's still an improvement on 10-20 years ago.

It's not the end of the world if a few teams are out of their depth at the WC, as long as the confederation overall is competitive. I don't recall anyone saying the EPL should be cut back to 12 or 16 teams because Tottenham beat Wigan 9-1 last season.

Actually I would think that Saudi Arabia and Iran would beat the Socceroos in away games for us. Oman played a full strength Socceroos side off the park at Etihad last year but we snatched a result. I think we underestimate Asia at our peril.

Fair enough. South Korea, Japan and Australia are improving. Portugal showed up how far behind North Korea are.