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Don't think it'll happen. Would be a great move for Man Utd but highly unlikely with only 4 and a half hours left in the window.

Would be an awesome deal for Everton too tbh.

Fuck off United :)

10 mill's a bit much, let alone carrick as well, i certainly rate rodwell but he's not worth 10 mill yet

The thing is because he's English he is. Just look at Milner. He's not worth 26m let alone 26m+Stephen Ireland.

It's kind of ridiculous yeah, but atleast we're seeing more young English stars not only highly rated, but seeing regular first team at these top clubs - It can only help improve the English NT's standards going into the future. The more Milner's and Hart's starting at the Man City's, Wilshere's & Walcott's starting at the Arsenals and co, the better.

Would be nice to see Chelsea have some new young English blood break through into their starting ranks, but that is still wishful thinking at the moment.

BTW Man U have a rep of poaching the brightest young English talent of Everton atleast, with Rooney ofcourse. But oh well, they can offer them Championships aswell as regular, strong performances at CL level football ofcourse - something the likes of Everton and most other English clubs can't offer ofcourse.

It's been a long time since Man U have promoted one of their own English products to become a first team mainstay - they seem content to buy up the Rooney's, Smalling's and maybe Rodwell's from others.

Fletcher
Gibson
Evans

Just a few grown through the ranks at utd.... Rooney was poached yes, but a bit team was going to come calling for him sooner or later... He is too good a player to stay at everton.

Noticed I said 'English,' yeah they HAVE promoted a few from their youth ranks, but Fletcher is Scottish, Gibson - Irish and Evans - Northern Irish!

I'm talking about future England stars here!

You look at their present list for instance, and the more recent English promotee could be Wes Brown? And his debut is going back late 90s! Guys like Danny Welbeck don't count as they haven't even played an EPL game yet, let alone broken through into the rotation proper. And ofcourse I refer to that Golden Gen or whatever it's called in the early-mid 90s when Scholes, Beckham and the Neville Brothers came through, as too Giggs. I suppose that sort of generation doesn't happen soo often, but still, we can all see, that there were ALOT more opportunities for young English players back then, then there are now, with the more Foreign player obsessed EPL.

BTW Not against the foreign legion at all, that improves the EPL standard immensely ofcourse, but would be nice to have some balance - because it's clear the English NT starts to suffer from a lack of elite talent, playing regularly at the most elite levels. The 6+5 rule might've been the solution for that, but alas no. :/

Edited by GloryPerth: 2/9/2010 03:58:14 PM

much better off at Everton

so was carrick the last time i checked...

Hmm just read up quickly on Carrick - Well Mr Carrick DID make a fairly big money move himself, to Man U in the first place - $14M pounds going on $18.5M back in 2006, in his move from Tottenham to Man U.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Carrick#Manchester_United

Sure that was 2006, but the markets were still just as inflated as they are now, infact things tempered for a little while didn't they? Circa the season when the GFC hit - So the acceleration slowed for a change for a little while, on the big fees. Though the big spending is certainly back again, especially when the Mid East consortium bought up Man City ofc.

Anyway, SydneyCroatia's theory/hypothesis? is on the mark I think - Certainly if you are a 'RATED' 'YOUNG' English talent who 'HAS' broken through at EPL level, then you will certainly draw the attentions of 'MOST' though NOT ALL (See Chelsea), the big clubs and in a big way too (Transfer fees).

They are treated as a rare commodity, by 'the market,' and the small number of them, these transfers, seems to back up the 'market's inflated valuation.'

The clubs are businesses and the players are like stock in the market place or something. That is modern football.

The more Rooney's, Rodwell's and even Carrick's we see, the lower the value should drop and the 'supply' starts to meet the 'demand.'

Interesting - the discussion in another thread about this - IF the FA can introduce even more measures to enforce a more home grown element to the big squads, then suddenly the 'demand' will shoot up! So like it or not, 'the supply' will HAVE to be there, whether it's really there or not!

I wonder what will happen - Indeed, the already well rated young talents will go for sky high prices, but after a while, surely a natural lowering then balance will occur, as the best young English talent is better identified AND nurtured by the ALL the bigger clubs, so negating the need somewhat for huge transfers, as too perhaps, the more often poaching of top young English talent from other smaller English league clubs and their youth set ups, more often. Sadly I can foresee alot of the latter and indeed they already do alot of this - I just think of how a couple of 14 or 15 year olds I think they were, at Leeds United were snapped up by Manchester City from Leeds' Youth Set up, for 400k each apparently, as too young England Under 17 star, Luke Garbutt, who transferred from Leeds' youth to Everton's youth for 1.55M Pounds. And hmm lol that same 2009-10 season, Aston Vila snapped up Leeds' young First Team star, Fabian Delph (19), who had just broken through that season just completed, for a strong 8M pounds!

Fabian Delph was a 19 year old star playing regular LEague One football at the time for Leeds United and Aston Villa paid 8M pounds for him!

Now does that help put things in perspective?

Suddenly Man U paying 10M to snap Rodwell up from Everton might seem cheap as chips!

Edited by GloryPerth: 3/9/2010 02:25:14 AM

Oowww you got me there !!... but when you look at alot of the big clubs not to many blood youngsters across the world really. The financial demand on clubs these days means they need to buy players who are already "superstar" be it english or not. If you look at the typical big 4 of seasons gone by [Man Utd Chelsea Arsenal Pool] there isnt to many players that have come through the academy and are "English" so excludes any other country in the UK.... The most recents are

Man Utd - Wes Brown
Arsenal - Walcott [Maybe you can include Gibbs + Wilshere]
Pool - Gerrard + Carrighar
Chelsea - John Terry

These are the last players to go all the way from the academy to the 1st team.... The simly just cant afford to stick with development of there youth players only, however in contrast to the likes of Everton + Villa these teams thrive on there bringing through players from there academy and getting them regular football

:lol: It'a amazing how many people forget that we bought Walcott from Southampton and he is not a product of our academy:lol:

Gibbs and Wilshere on the other hand are products of our academy and have been with the club since they were 9.

this is true

Welbeck has played a fair few games actually and has one EPL goal to his name.

and what a fucking awesome goal it was too

[youtube]N58TXFPDhZ4[/youtube]

Whoops my mistake, ofcourse he has! I think I was just looking at this stats for this season, where he hasn't featured yet. Though I can still argue - he hasn't broken through into the rotation proper yet, to be a regular feature, let alone is a first team regular. Though at only 19 going 20, he still has a little time on his side. To be on loan at fellow EPL club is quite promising, though I'm wondering if he might just end up transferring to a club like that proper, in a season or two?

So like SCR8 and Sydney Croatia suggested - The amount of 'local products' that are coming through at these big clubs are very few and far between.

And Sydney Croatia let's go further - Delph and Walcott are not the only examples of bigger EPL sides poaching top young English youths ofcourse. Reading up on Delph, Leeds United actually 'poached' him from Bradford's youth set up back when he was 11-12 - circa the 2001 season, so when Leeds were a high flying EPL club ofcourse. Funny how the world turns? :o

I don't quite buy your argument about club's cost in producing their own SCR8. Though yeah, I acknowledge that having a collection of talented young foreigners is also worthwhile, the balance actually seems far too skewed to foreign talent right through, to the point where the English talent doesn't even get a look in. Again it's plain to see, there's no mystery here, it's quite evident. But again, I don't buy that it's more expensive or something, infact on the contrary, to bring a young 14 year old Spaniard over, with his parents, paying for accomodation, even education, bringing that boy through, just on the chance he COULD work out to be an Arsenal, Chelsea or whatever star for a strong 6-7 seasons, is a bit more of an investment, even risk, than investing in local, where language, culture, settling into the surrounds etc... are already sorted. Obviously it's worth the investment, as you get plenty in return when they become the Fabregas.'

The big clubs are just quite simply acknowledging this - That the youth system's of Spain, Argentina, the Netherlands, France etc... are superior to England's. Quite simply, these countries produce better players, technically, than their own country does. I suppose the success or lack of, of England's youth teams at European Championship level relative to that of some of the others, is partly why, say, Arsenal snap up a few of those talented Swiss Under 17 boys who just won the Under 17 World Cup in 2009.


Though to be positive - Martin Tyler and others at this recent World Cup mentioned how in very recent times, this year infact, England's Youth teams have really seen a new dawn it seems - England actually won the 2010 UEFA Under 17 Championship this year, aswell as finishing in the final of UEFA's Under 19 Championship in 2009. In the 2010 Under 19 Championship England also finished in the Semi-Finals so their team qualified for an Under 20 World Cup for the first time in ages (2011 Under 20 World Cup in Colombia.

BTW Some players who featured in those three teams - 2009: Danny Welbeck and Aston Villa star, Nathan Delfouneso, the latter who also featured in the 2010 Under 19 side.

And the boys in that 2010 Under 17 Championship winning side?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_UEFA_European_Under-17_Football_Championship_squads#.C2.A0England

Maybe some of you can tell me who they are, but there could certainly be some ones to watch for in the future amongst that lot? That tall striker, Connor Wickham, has already featured alot of Ipswich Town in the Championship last season, despite him being only 16/17 at the time. And in very recent times he's already appearing in adverts in the UK, with Wayne Rooney and Joe Hart. :o Young Luke Williams is already featuring for Middlesbrough aswell!

http://www.mfc.co.uk/articles/luke-williams-middlesbrough_70610_50249

BTW That Luke Garbutt guy I mentioned before - He was also in that side, though by this time he was already with Everton!


I suppose it's only a matter of time before the even bigger clubs come calling for the Wickham, Luke Williams and even Garbutt? :o

Edited by GloryPerth: 3/9/2010 06:51:55 PM

Bad decision if we let go of carrick. Hes a class player

Really? I don't rate him at all since he left Spurs - seems like he left his game there.

Im not sure if getting players like delph at 11-12 is classified as poaching as when you look at the likes of Gerrard, Carrighar + Giggs[I know he isnt english] they are all 1 club men, however they were only signed to these teams at the ages of 13-15 ish.. Giggs himself was in fact a MAn Ciy boy and both Gerro + Jamie were childhood everton boys... ..

I may have written my other part not to clear. I agree with you that bringing up youngsters through the system etc and getting them into the first team is a heap cheaper that buying in players, but top teams dont have the luxury of blooding youngster as there is so much pressure on the bug clubs to win as much silverware as possible and win it NOW! that they need top players now thus looking at imports or getting already established players....

Hmm yeah, and I suppose we kind of agree then there's a kind of systemic thing here and I link it all - People wonder about the England NT, quality of players, rave on about Spain, Germany and co... But it's no mystery, especially when you just look at Barcelona's squad, then Spain's squad and what have you. And in Germany too - there's much more of a balance, but, the Bundesliga is certainly no EPL, and I mean that in many good ways.

Yeah, instant success, short term over long term - And the horrible trends now with foreign owners has really done it ofcourse - All the EPL clubs are turning into the latest toys for some Ruski, Yank or Sheik. They have no interest in the local history, in the wider history of the clubs. It's just turning a profit, increasing revenue streams, raising the profile of their own brands, companies as sponsors or whatever.

That's the disconnect - With all the English owners, I don't think you'd be seeing the same trend, not to be mistaken, yeah there'd be some foreign, but not to the outrageous, ludicrous, degree we see now - where even the lower EPL clubs HAVE to push these way splurging huge cash on some second rate Frenchman or something. The Foreign owners can be more disconnected from the local fans and I think that's reflected in what's happening at Man U, with the green and gold protests etc... But ofcourse that's about wider things related to the way the club is being run etc...

BTW I know Chelsea had alot of foreign players even before Abramovich, but still, it's a bit crazy now, Chelsea Syndrome and Man City - And English players can hardly compete with that, especially when the not even the best talent of their rival nations like Spain are being brought over by the dozens, to play 'Right Back' or something.

And it's funny with those trends now too - That the few Englishmen who ARE regarded in these positions, ARE those who established themselves well before all these trends and who are close to retirement now, like the Scholes', Giggs', Carraghers', I know they are talents, but they aren't THAT rare or HARD to replace - Just the same, equivalent, faith isn't being shown in those boys these days. Even Carrick, he's old now. But I suppose Man U chasing Rodwell is certainly a good thing - Atleast it shows Fergie still values young English talent highly?

Seems we do in fact agree on quite alot!!!... I must give it to Man City though since the take over they have splashed alot of $$$ on players and really they have spent a fair bit on english players also....with having the likes of

Milner
Barry
A.Johnson
Lescott
Richards
Hart
etc

they really do seem to hold the spine of the national team in there squad. Well the spine of the future squads anyway once the likes of Lamps Gerro Terry and Rio retire anyway.

Lets hope more rules are bought it to support and nurture local talent.. Adam Johnson is just an example of the sort of Gems you can find inside England.... Struggled to get a run at Middlesborough in the championship and less that 18months later he is playing for the three lions and scoring a goal!!!!