You got me.

I'm switching all my policies to GA Life & General.

One ambitious coach in FFA programmes said that FFA wants tertiary qualifications for coaches to advance in the FFA system.

He lamented he didn't have tertiary qualifications.

I would assume sports science would be at the top of desired tertiary qualifications desired.

PE teaching would probably be second.

Early childhood teaching is particularly useful, because so many concepts have to be decoded and simplified for children to understand.

Edited by Decentric: 5/12/2011 04:16:56 PM

Elders Insurance sunshine ;)

Early childhood is your teaching degree?

I have a three year Bachelor Of Arts.

I have a one year Diploma Of Education.

I have taught all ages from 4-24, but the majority of my career was with 4-8 year olds.

I worked as a specialist PE teacher.

I worked as a professional modern karate teacher. This has been particularly useful for individual technique deconstruction in football.


Edited by Decentric: 5/12/2011 08:20:51 PM

Skinet, I've refreshed a thread for you.

It is about coaching written by Simon Kuper.

He discusses the merits of teachers or former players.

Edited by Decentric: 5/12/2011 08:39:03 PM

Ok. My son has has a BEd in both early childhood and Primary, played soccer at state league level and now plays country rugby league. My wife has a BEd (Canada) with majors in English, Geography and Language (French). A Canadian coaching licence in both figure skating and gymastics and competed at national level in both. They both now teach Indigenous kids in remote areas.

And among other things along time ago, i was an amateur boxer. This is particularly useful as an individual technique to deconstruct moments that may otherwise be quite awkward.

Now, that's enough penis comparisons for one day, don't you think?

Skeptic, I was talking about teaching as a useful corollary to football coaching qualifications for the training ground.


Your son, if he did a football coaching course, would have an excellent skill set to coach football. :)

Edited by Decentric: 5/12/2011 10:35:34 PM

I'm well aware of what you were speaking of and other than helping kids at school, my son has zero interest in football coaching, playing or watching.

What age did he stop playing?

Is he just burnt out?

I have a relative who played tennis at Wimbledon. He has been ambivalent about tennis most of the time since. At times he has hated it.

As a semi-pro musician I had a fantastic teacher who had been in the army for years. He was just sick of music and didn't play after he finished his service.

19 when something had to give with Uni, work, training 3 nights and playing.

OK, I'm mildly curious about this.

Is this all there is to becoming a school teacher in 2011? That is, a 3 year arts degree and a one year diploma of education?

How do your formal qualifications stand up to modern day formal teacher education?



What formal qualifications did you gain to become a specialist PE teacher?

Edited by judy free: 6/12/2011 10:39:37 AM

Chips that is how people have become teachers for about 40 years. You do a degree and then a diploma of education.

The same process occurs now.

Teachers can also do a four year Bachelor Of Education.

The undergraduate degree, plus the diploma provides more scope for change during the course of a degree. It is desirable for people like myself who weren't convinced of a specific career before going to uni.

I didn't have formal qualifications other than part of my Diploma Of Education.

I did it for one day a week for a few years.

Like many teachers, we teach beyond our areas of expertise at some time in our careers.

A Dip. Ed is a 1 year post grad. course in education/teaching following a previous degree in any field. Not sure how much 'supervised professional full time experience' (in school practical) is required to be fitted in with a one year course.

A Bach.Ed is an undergrad. 4 year degree in education with all units covering education/teaching and includes a total of 3 months(?) supervised professional full time experience (in school practical) and a further unsupervised extended professional full time experience of I think 3 months in the last year. Unpaid, btw.

The courses and their requirements differ for primary and secondary in both Dip. Ed & Bach. Ed.

Hope i've got that close to being right.

Edited by skeptic: 6/12/2011 01:19:10 PM

I think your spot on skeptic.

Public liability insurance quote is underway.

Once we get a quote we'll look for a benefactor. That means FFE can operate autonomously.

Conversely, we could send a letter to state FFA CEO asking him why FFA won't provide public liability. At the same time send a copy to the sports minister and his senior adviser.

State government have provided significant funding to state FFA for community football projects like ours. There is disquiet amongst clubs as to how the money has been spent. FFA may have a plausible explanation, but clubs think funds have been reallocated to elite programmes. The downside to FFA paying public liability is FFE would then be under partial jurisdiction of FFA.

Ironically, the guy who interviewed us with a quote form at the insurance brokers is a current football senior player at a split state league club. He is keen to help out with the FFE project in any way possible.

Thanks a bunch, General Ashnak for your assistance in PL insurance. You've saved us a lot of time.:)

Your very welcome mate :)

Can you check your PM, GA?

Thanks.

The next stage is to secure an administrative manager for any money we may receive for FFE. Neither Coach C, or I, want to handle money. A local rotary club is keen to provide support.

For balls, cones, poles, bibs, we need a little money. We don't want to become an incorporated business, which costs $1000. Essentially, we are a voluntary, altruistic community based organisation. There is no profit motive involved.

There is a chance to apply for a $5 000 -$10 000 grant from a state community fund. The rotary club is small and has limited financial means, but is willing to provide financial advice and handle money.

There may be a possibility of the rotary club providing transport for the refugees.




Edited by Decentric: 4/4/2012 07:34:09 PM

It is interesting to note the attitude of FFA to Football For Everyone.

Initially, the state FFA TD said they would provide public liability insurance. Eventually, the state FFA CEO reneged, saying FFA provided everything our FFE school does.

Now we have sought independent public liability insurance, with assistance of another 442 member. To pay for this we are contacting rotary clubs, lions clubs, apex clubs, sports retail shops, etc.

State FFA said they would assist us with equipment. Then this became a 'loan'. Eventually the response was, "We are not a warehouse".

Now we have accrued equipment courtesy of a football shop and a football club/fine foods business.

In offering no assistance, FFA are contributing to us becoming a viable, independent football organisation. We have rotary club support, community neighbourhood centre support, city council support, Centacare support, business support, Migrant Resource Centre support and political support.

We are eligible to apply for council funding and state funding for community based projects. In the past FFA have received this money. We will be competing for money for community football projects with FFA. They received money for community football projects, but many believe they siphoned it off to elite programmes.
We may have our own minibus, have funding to send coaches interstate for coaching courses, fund local FFA courses, possibly even send them to the Netherlands for coaching. We will have our own cones, balls, poles and bibs. Some altruistic organisations are organising boots for refugees. We may even be able to get strip with Football For Everyone on the back.

If state FFA had provided the support they said they would in the first place, we would have had no reason to contact most of these aforementioned groups. We will probably end up an autonomous football organisation, distinct and separate from state FFA, with a lot more diverse community support and a budget from community funds.

Surely it would have been prudent for them to keep us under their jurisdiction like they said they were going to do?

Interesting.















Edited by Decentric: 28/2/2012 01:11:16 PM

Great to hear what is happening Decentric, keep us updated mate :)

The efforts to keep the FFES concept operating continues to evolve.

Rotary say they can't administer funds granted from state community projects, because there is too much red tape and they have finite resources.

The great thing is that co-ordinators/liason officers from altruisitic organisations continue to suggest other alternatives if one can't provide support.

Like many, public speaking used to be something I was terrified of. Now I'm quite relaxed about it, as I've been forced to address a diversity of groups. FFES will continue to speak to ethnic community leaders/committees, welfare organisation committees, junior football association committees, church group committees, rotary meetings, FFA, even the media.


In this state, by and large junior clubs exist up until players reach the age of 12. Then senior clubs take over. There is a massive attrition rate. Essentially junior clubs try to provide a game for anyone interested in playing, regardless of ability.

Conversely, senior clubs often only want to recruit players they think are good enough for senior football, in order to win premierships for the club. Some footballers of moderate ability have been exited from clubs. Some split state league clubs perceive developing players as a burden. They prefer to try and recruit players from other clubs, rather than develop their own. Consequently, some players change clubs almost every year.

As a confident and eloquent woman (a social player) from the state FFA womens' standing committee emphatically stated (her own daughter one of the brightest elite players), that all the suburban footballers pay their registration fees too. These are the players who provide the bulk of FFA's revenue, along with non-elite junior players. Pretty sage words!!!

FFES could easily obtain funding for our project from a split state league club. The only problem would be, they would use FFES as recruitment for their own purposes of winning titles and beating other clubs. They would select the best players for better teams in the club.
It is good that talented players have the opportunity to play at higher levels. What can happen though is that players can be separated from friends. Young players can be playing with people who are much older. Hence, the fun can disappear.

ATM some issues are harder to resolve for us, but ultimately FFES should exist autonomously. We will rely on the support of non-football organisations who see the social benefits of playing football as being paramount to competition.

Ultimately, senior clubs don't want to assist any football programme that has benefits to players beyond their own club. Moreover, FFA should do what FFES is doing within their own charter, but don't/can't organise on a regular basis.

Some stakeholders/coaches within some state league clubs consider what FFES is doing is what should happen at their own clubs. The development of players from 13 onwards nearly always seems to be pushed into the background at many clubs. What they try to do is recruit players from NTC, rep and state programmes to play for their clubs. Developing their own players is often a low priority.

Growing up through the system, I didn't find what you're postulating prevalent at all. Granted, I have only played for two clubs but I'm not aware of anyone being asked to leave a club???

If a club's under 19 team has too many players then what do you propose for those less talented? I know, from my experience, those players start on the bench and have limited playing time. Hence they leave for another club at the end of the season. What is your alternative?

In relation to recruiting, since when have clubs actively recruited players not already playing seniors? As far as i'm aware, a club advertises and waits to see who turns up. Then through pre season and the summer cup, these players are split into three teams (19's, Reserves & Seniors).

The club I played for had a youth development program which started early 2000. We had some fairly terrible players but they weren't excluded by any means.

I'm speaking with knowledge of scenarios from about seven split state league clubs. Attitudes vary from club to club.

One club president pointed out a youth player to a club coach and said, "That player won't be at this club next year." This was because of his perceived lack of ability. Last year this president targeted a number of players to not give them a game this current season. This caused the coach to leave the club. Many players at this club, of lower ability, not having parents involved in administration or coaching at the club, spent considerable time on the bench, hardly playing more than a few minutes game time, if at all. Meanwhile other players sometimes played three games in a weekend.

Some senior, split state league clubs look at junior regional association rep sides, under 12 , to try and recruit players to their clubs. As you know under 12 is the last year of junior football for most associations in this state.
Some senior clubs don't want social players. They don't ask players to leave their clubs, but don't actively recruit, or encourage, players of limited ability.
Some clubs try and take whole junior rep sides from under 12s into their programme to play as an intact under 13 team when they play for the senior club.







Edited by Decentric: 29/2/2012 05:34:50 PM

Good point.

As a coach I've sometimes been frustrated having team squads of 17-18 players at junior level.

That is why we are offering FFES as an alternative. Anyone who wants can partake in FFES can participate in skills training and small sided games once a week, regardless of skill level and ability. Individual players within teams seem to have made considerable improvement to date and their team has improved relative to opposition teams.

As yet FFES haven't had players, or heard of scenarios, where they have increased their game time in a particular team, because they've improved relative to their teammates within that team.

In a senior club scenario I would probably apply for a few low skilled players to play in a younger age group. Conversely, move a particularly good team up an age group into a lower division. The less talented players can be joined by talented players from a younger age group, so they don't suffer low self esteem.

In Holland there are two years between age groups to cater for different ability levels. For example under 13s, under 15s, under 17s, under 19s.





Edited by Decentric: 29/2/2012 05:35:50 PM

I know you said nobody you know knows me, or has heard of me, with your Hobart club connections, but if you are making this aforementioned point, you must have limited recent contact with the contemporary football milieu in Hobart.

My co-coach at FFES knows the local scene like the back of his hand. He knows everybody. Surely you've heard of him? Refer to the original article about FFES in 2011 May's archives on Walter Pless's site if you can't remember his name. I think it is on page 11.

I also know Walter Pless well. He is a good mate of mine. Surely, you must know Walter? Even though reluctant to put it in print, he has unequivocal opinions on the coaching quality at FFES. He has viewed most of a FFES session, probably one of the worst I've taken too.

Juve Juve, don't get me wrong, you've raised, and will continue to do so as you participate on 442, many excellent points which require thought provoking responses. In your career, if you've played for the state at senior level, you've obviously been a decent player and not been subject to constant rejection like some players with less ability.

Some split state league clubs aggressively recruit players from other clubs and elite programmes. Look at how many players change clubs from season to season on a regular basis? There is little youth development done at club level at split state league clubs, but some are exceptions to the rule.

One club I know just simply aggressively targets new players and coaches at the end of every season, with a development programme whose purpose is to simply serve as a catchment area for nearly a third of Hobart's junior players.

A couple of senior club coaches have communicated to the other FFES coach, much better known than yours truly, that their own clubs should be doing what FFES is doing, but never seem to get round to it, despite the best of intentions. Or, sometimes, if it has been done, it is the brainchild of an ambitious coach wanting it on his CV to coach in elite programmes. When they reach their elite coaching goal, the club development programme promptly collapses when they leave.








Edited by Decentric: 29/2/2012 05:24:32 PM

As I've previously stated some are exceptions to the rule.


It seems most of the development has occurred at Kingborough, South Hobart and Clarence, and recent attempts have been made at Zebras.

New Town may have some claims too.

South Hobart's current programme is essentially Morton's Academy, where players have to pay $2000 per year.

I would say the exception to the rule is those you described earlier, not the other way around.

Recently Zebras? Is the last decade recent? I remember training 4-5 days a week with Zebras academy run by Ken, free of charge.

South Hobart have been doing it for as long as I can remember although I still argue their prominence and success in Tas football is through their involvement with central region. Is this what you were referring to in relation to poaching skilled younger players? My first hand experience can confirm this.