Due credit, that would have to be one of the best collection of sockah related motherhood statements I've ever read on the internet.

But a few Q's, if I may:

who are these promising youngsters? (list, please)
better planning? (do you have some firm evidence of this happening at grassoots?)
coaches getting better training? (compared to when? 2, 5, 10 or 50 years ago?)
better qualifications? (you mean the 8 hours at mum and dad level?)
SSG's? (is this something totally new in your region?)
more pathway for juniors? (how has this improved to,say, 10 or 20 years ago?)

Oh and surely, for the sake of the children, you don't seriously judge a person's true value and knowledge on the "way they speak", do you?


Edited by judy free: 6/5/2011 09:18:34 AM

Though Chips has been pretty blunt his questions are all pertinent, and they are the sorts of questions that we are relying upon our football journalists to be asking. There has been a lot of indication that these journalists have lost their goodwill toward the FFA in general, but those football people within the FFA still seem to be getting slack cut of them. This is crazy as they are the ones most likely to actually answer questions as opposed to more political appointments like Buckley.

The only point I can say is almost definitely true is the coaching badges having improved content, we have been getting accounts from numerous sources that the course content in the FFA coaching licenses has improved dramatically from what was available through the ASA. The qualifications that they provide are also much better recognised internationally than our old courses. This does not mean that the participants are better coaches than those with the old qualifications, but the information being provided to them is of higher quality and they should be less reliant on trial an error with regard to providing effective training to their charges.

BTW Chips with regard to SSGs from anecdotal evidence they were totally new to a fair few areas, at least at the levels they were being introduced.

With regard to junior pathways there definately has not yet been an improvement in this area. In SA at least a lot of our problems with this is down to the fact we just don't physically have the capacity to do so. In other words we lack the facilities to make it so.

Fair enough.

My knowledge relates purely to Sydney - home of Australia's largest concentration of sockah registrations. Where SSG's were adopted by many associations in the early 90's. In fact, some say that Berger stole the existing handbook and made a few minor tweaks.



Edited by judy free: 6/5/2011 09:56:00 AM

Without any equivocation it is happening in Tasmania.

* 6000 kids coached in schools in the last 4 months.

* 300 grass roots coaches trained in the last 6 months

* 92 junior licence coaches trained in the last 6 months.

I can't speak for other states, but there is probably some degree of variation in implementation across state branches of FFA.

Han Berger didn't appoint the Tassie TD, Kurt Reynolds, but Buckley/Lowy sent down John Boulas to sort out the mess Tasmanian Football Federation was in.
Boulas was only here temporarily. He liked Tassie so much , he stayed. He and the FFA state president, Sean Collins, appointed Kurt Reynolds. They also made life so difficult for the previous TD, he resigned.

Han Berger/Rob Baan have overhauled the coaching curriculum. Kurt Reynolds now holds an A Licence, B Licence and C licence from the new Dutch influenced curriculum.

This is irrefutable evidence of better planning at grass roots.


Edited by Decentric: 6/5/2011 09:57:04 AM

That's OK by me as it obviously is something that works and if the FFA are going to force feed best practices to the rest of Australia then bring it on.

How many hours and the level of instruction?

Tassie has forever been a strayan sockah backwater - any improvements to the scene could easily be interpreted as massive.

As a smaller federation it is probably easiest to introduce rapid change with Tasmania than it is elsewhere, also you probably had less well entrentched opposition to the changes.

I'm not speaking for chips here but myself, its why i question and raise issues on forums due to this lack of accountability displayed by FFA and lack of integrity displayed by australian journalists.

On the point of FFA coaching licenses, the reason it can be perceived to have improved dramatically is due to newly introduced FIFA requirements and enforcement.

Its difficult to not question decisions, integrity and personnel at FFA when one has been involved with the game at the highest levels for years.

On here it seems to be easier to accuse someone of being a troll rather than deal with issues they raise.

You will find that is probably going to be the case in WA and SA to an extent as well. SA in particular has stagnated badly over the past 20 years.

But we shouldn't got too hung up, or over-estimate, the supposed massive benefits SSG's will bring.

Unless you're a coach with a squad of 22 players all your training sessions (since the dawn of sockah time) has been played in an SSG setting.

Compared to 5,10 -20 years ago.

There is a much more FFA prescriptive curriculum content predicated on KNVB, one of the world's leading football methodologies.

It may not be as good as KNVB, but it is much better than previous courses.

Formations, match analysis, four main moments of play, building blocks, four phase training programmes weren't touched on in Advanced C and Senior licences.

One previously trained senior licensee under the old ad hoc regime, a state youth coach, photocopied my whole two KNVB course books. He would access some of this information in current FFA courses.

Sometimes a little honey needs to be interspersed with the vineger in order to get meaningful responses ;) Cheers for the response mate as it is true that the improvement in the licensing is probably a perceived one, however perception holds a lot of sway over people with regard to the willingness of them to imput their time and money.

Now there is (should be) an emphasis on why we use specific numerical SSGs. There are sound reasons for certain numerical formations in SSGs.

These extrapolate to the bigger 11 v 11 scenario.

This was not addressed 5, 10, 20 years ago.

True, but a lot of clubs have more interested players than room to facilitate them here in SA. I sincerely doubt that there are too many training sessions conducted here with less than 22 players in them.

Rabid and Judy Free are expressing views on the value of change between the current FFA licensing and previous licensing.

I have done both forms of training, except I'll qualify that and say I did straight KNVB training direct from Holland, not FFA influenced KNVB training.

Empirically, one in this position can make informed judgements.

Two punters who haven't, can't make direct comparisons from an informed position. Judy Free trained in old FFA, Australian Soccer Association training, but hasn't undertaken a course in the last few years.

The comparisons are based on hearsay, not direct experience.

True.

Yep you're right decentric.

Because i choose not to be a name dropper unlike your good self, somehow my opinion is not worth as much as yours.

Seems your modus operandi over the years to name drop an individual till you wear that out then move to the next name.

Kurt Reynolds seems to be flavour of the month at the moment.

I'm not sure of the amount of hours, but kids have been reached like ever before in Tasmania in schools. Many kids take up the sport from coaching sessions being held in schools.

In comparative statistical terms it would be interesting if the NSW federation have had contact with 90 000 kids in the same time frame of 6 months.

NSW is 15 times larger than Tasmania. 90 000 is 15 times the number of 6000.

Backwater status is relative. Australia is one big backwater in European terms. Having said that, Tasmania could emulate cricket as Australia's best practice in the imminent future. Cricket in Tasmania 30 years ago in Tasmania had the worst methodology in coaching.

The things we need are a state league, an A League team and a W League team.


Edited by Decentric: 6/5/2011 10:57:45 AM

In the past there has been no emphasis on size specific SSGs.

Now there is an emphasis on the minimum size for width and depth, or should be, in FFA curricula. There certainly is in KNVB.

In the past epochs Australia produced good players able to play in top European leagues, albeit sometimes for limited periods of time.

Paul Okon, Ned Zelic, Viduka, Kewell, Lazaridis, Emerton, Grella, Tiatto, Slater, Neill, Bresciano, are field players who have played as starting players in top leagues within 5-15 years ago.

The game has evolved. It is much quicker now. Intensive full pressing and squeezing leave ever diminishing time and space to play the ball in possession. Modern players need extraordinary fitness to be able to full press intensively for the duration of a game. Some of these Aussie players may not have the same attributes to succeed in contemporaneous top level European football as they would have in the past.


Michael Owen is another player who may have been superseded by the modern game. His attributes were conducive to success 10 years ago, but not necessarily in the the modern game.

The aforementioend Australian players were very good, but would they be as successful or sought after commodities in the modern game in their late teens and early twenties?

Promising Aussie youngsters now, maybe as talented, but not of the sufficient calibre desired by big Euro clubs. There is now probably more of an awareness in Australia, through the direct links and networks Berger/Baan/Versleijen have in the European football milieu, about what qualities are needed for the contemporary player to succeed in Europe.

The bar for success in Europe most probably, is continuously being raised.



Edited by Decentric: 6/5/2011 10:58:37 AM

And before them you had the likes of Krncevic, kosmina,mitchell, arnold, patikas, slater,farina, etc playing in the top leagues.

The game in Australia has always evolved without your self centered hyperbole.

Your example of owen is laughable and shows your blatant lack of knowledge and football nous.

If you could use any player to validate your ridiculous hypothesis, owen would be one you wouldnt use as IMO owen at his peak would be ideally suited to todays game.

Edited by rabid: 6/5/2011 11:10:54 AM

I mentioned Slater.

Kosmina wasn't a starter, but I admit he was a sub for Arsenal in the days when there were 12 man squads. That was for one season.

Arnold played in a mid ranked Dutch team, but not one of the big clubs, possibly a similar scenario to Holman now.

Farina played a mid ranked French club.

Mitchell didn't play as a starter in a big league.

Krncevic was top scorer in a mediocre league, albeit with a big club.

Overall these players didn't play in as a high calibre team as the other list.

The point is evolving standards and desired qualities over time

Thanks for reinforcing my point that the game in Australia has continually evolved without your sycophantic bullshit.

MIchael Owen is the archetypal, classic sniffer/poacher centre forward. In today's game universality and adaptability of players is paramount.

Modern defences of top teams are often so well-organised they don't make mistakes. It became apparent for Michael Owen in his mid -twenties, that no matter how good he was at sitting on the last defender's shoulders, or darting across the near post, it is not enough in modern football.

Modern forwards need to be competitive for longer balls, hold the ball up and play the ball off, helping to keep possession for the team. To be an integral part in build up play is a prerequisite looked for by top coaches.

Owen could possibly be regarded as a player who wins his team the occasional game, but stifles them from playing good football over a sequence of matches.

FMD](*,)

Never takes more than two seconds for the bloke to give himself up. :lol:

FMD, indeed.

There's the rub.

You wouldn't have a fucking clue about the quality of coaching in Tasmania 5, 10 or 20 years ago, let alone anywhere else in Australia.

Every sport evolves in some capacity. Some faster than others. No coach, person, or business ever wants to stand still. And I have little doubt whatsover that the scope for improvement in tassie sockah was, and still remains, massive.

And FWIW I do have some experience of coaching v tasmanian junior rep teams within the past 10 years. They were absolutely fucking dreadful. I felt for the poor kids. Coming all the way to Sydney in their clean new tracksuits and getting belted double figures by the weakest of NSW teams.




Edited by judy free: 6/5/2011 02:26:19 PM

Was in Sydney, dating back to at least 1990.

The model your Berger plagiarised.

Yeah, we just went the SSG path back in 1990 for the hell of it.

You're an idiot.