how are Olympic greek when for nearly their entire 50+ year history been gypsies?

Just putting it out there - what does everyone think about a salary cap at NSWPL and Super League?

shit.

I was at the game as a Neutral along with probably 2000 other neutrals, good day at the Football, there is still a lot of passion for these 2 clubs, I'd really hope that it doesn't dwindle of the next decade or so. The old NSL clubs have a role to play in Australian football and I'd hope they continue breeding local talent like they have for the last 50 years!

Why?

Because he's stuck in the stone age with the us v them mentality.

No, it's a stupid idea because it just wouldnt work.

Most players would get cash in hand at the moment. A salary cap would just increase the under-the-table payments

Without a doubt. I am not talking about a nominal cap for everyone to rort. I am talking about the NSWFF administering the cap the same way that the FFA administer the HAL cap.

Comparing a fully professional league and the resources the FFA have to a semi-pro league is a bit silly.

It's a lot easier to give kickbacks to players down at this level, mostly because it already happens across the board. I dont think a salary cap will stop it

OK, here's my theory.

The FFA should work hand in hand with NSWFF to establish firm controls over the Prem and Superleague, including players' and clubs' bank accounts, tax returns, the whole thing. Why?

To me it's simple - at the end of the day all those clubs who charge juniors in the thousands to play reps for them are having to do so in order to pay their senior players. So they keep on their roster blokes in their late 20s who aren't good enough for the A-League but still want to make some dough while playing at a decent level, as well as importing some second rate African.

Which is all fine and good, except it doesn't help football in this country. Instead, we could have a salary cap introduced over a period of 2-3 years, which would:

1) Reduce the clubs' expenses dramatically
2) Force them to field almost exclusively players aged 17-20, which can only help player development in this country.

Then a carrot/stick approach could be applied:

Stick - no more than say $400/season for juniors, in line with park football
Carrot - for every State League player sold to the A-League, they would make say $15K rather than the piddly $3K they get right now.

This would bring the State League clubs into line with the rest of the football in this country, rather than the separate show it seems to be, to the benefit of very few.

If parents are unhappy with the fees some clubs charge for juniors, or are concerned about their money being used for senior football, then they should take their kids to clubs who charge less or don't give a stuff about senior football. Plenty of them out there.

Deliberately missing the point. Yes they can do that, OR the clubs can reduce their expenses via the salary cap, and pass those savings on to juniors (or their parents more likely). This will ensure that rep football is no longer the province of the middle class, but of all talented players. I am in the Eastern Suburbs comp which is the smallest in the State and arguably the one with the most $$$, and yet there are still very talented kids running around playing park football (aged 11-16) who should be playing reps. I can only imagine how much more of a factor this is in other, larger associations.

So - yes, the State League club can keep doing what it's been doing, ie, ripping off juniors to pay their senior players, to the exclusion of the ones who can't afford it, OR they can lower their cost base and bring more quality juniors into the game.

Not missing the point, just offering up a more realistic solution for individual participants.

Salary caps don't work in second tier/semi-pro sport. The authorities don't have the resources to police it, even when they have the will. Second tier sports who want to have a more even competition are tending to look towards point systems these days.

As for limiting squads to 17-20 year olds, that's just a crock. The players will learn diddly playing only against players like themselves. Seen enough players too scared to mix it up with seasoned players, preferring to look good in under 21s teams.

The VFL, SANFL and WAFL all have salary caps they're second tier and semi-pro. Maybe the oval shape of the ball makes it easier to police?

Maybe only 8/9 clubs to deal with instead of 100s makes it easier. That, and the fact that the majority of players in the VFL seniors are already being paid by AFL clubs, and the fact that in these aussie rules comps there's next to no player movement during the season.

I'm not against a salary cap - I just don't think that the people who'd be put in charge of policing it are capable of doing so, and I doubt that the FFA has the resources to help every single state league with semi-pro leagues to do so.

How do you expect the FFV to manage a salary cap when they can't even run a simple cup competition properly by not allocating specific match days for it and even screwing up the draw at least twice?

No issue with your second point, and was thinking of that myself. But I think that if the salary cap is in place, there can still be room for 4-5 older players who would help lead the kids around the park.

As for the salary caps not working in 2nd tier sport - well, that's got more to do with willingness and resources to make it work. I am not talking about making these changes in isolation, but as part of a carefully coordinated national strategy to reform the game at the second tier level, with the emphasis on bringing more young players through to A-League level. Let's face it - we'll never be the EPL, but if we can produce more talented players it will be better for the NT, the HAL clubs and the long term financial viability of the State League clubs themselves.

Put it this way - we want as many talented kids making it through to the highest level as possible. And to attract the best talent, not just those juniors whose parents are prepared to stump up the cash. So to do that, by reducing the cost base of the SL clubs, you then have the mechanism to force their hand in charging "park football" rates (or near to) for coaching talented rep juniors.

And while a club like CCM can establish their own academy which would span pretty much their entire catchment region, in the big cities junior development is best left to State League clubs due to their geographical coverage.

Maybe it's a New South Wales thing. Not to say that there aren't Victorian clubs who don't charge an arm and a leg for junior fees, but all the senior clubs are part of the same league pyramid here, and there's only the amateur association (which is mostly equivalent to a thirds/social league) and the Bayside Football Association in terms of associations which seem to match up to the Sydney system of localised associations outside the state league system.

Not that I'm an expert on junior football. But I used to hold the opinion that youth needed to be given a step up, to be given priority. And now, after watching a fair bit of under 21s football in Victoria, my mind has changed. I don't like seeing old plodders taking up rosters, but frankly if the young bucks can't match it with them or beat them, and prefer to stuff around in the under 21s, that's their own problem. Young players with ambition for senior football will take the necessary steps by themselves to do it.

I've asked this previously and never received an answer from any direction, including those claiming 5k annual youth fees.

So, from those 'involved' in state league clubs in both NSWPL and VPL or a paying parent, how much is an average annual club/registration fee for youth league and/or Under age players? And please, no "Oh, I heard...."

True that. But I think we need to really throw a young generation out there, and give it the best opportunity to thrive. But I don't think we are ready to do that just yet - it would take a committed effort to really become youth-focused from the ground up.

By the way - and really not making it a NSW/Vic thing (it's football development I'm talking about), but something is not right with football in Victoria. You guys don't seem to be producing a whole lot of juniors lately, not the way you used to. Granted, Sydney/NSW has always produced more, but lately, apart from Matthew Leckie there hasn't been anyone coming through to near NT level from Victoria. Which may be hand in glove with what you're talking about.

Can't give you an average but I know the cheapest FFA/FFV registered clubs the lowest I know of is $220 at Monbulk Rangers, while Bulleen $800, South melbourne $700, Box Hill $550. Most seem to be in that $350 to $500 range.

Most goes to the offer take home kits, training gear paid coaches, volunteer coaches etc.

While Churches league is $150 per player

We are producing quality players but the FFV takes them into their development programs and ruins them. Leckie was'nt deemed good enough to be in the development pathways. LUCKY HIM!

Thanks Arfa. I'm somewhat familiar with nswpl and nnswsl club fees and where, why and what they service, so what are the claims re expensive playing fees of up to 5k based on?

Sounds like more a NSW thing - what do they charge?

You can end up paying a lot if your kid has the extras and mind you many do.

Eg.

Attending a Government School with Soccer Academey $1500
Futsal training $500
Participating in Melbourne Futsal league $300 (required to be selected for State Team)
State Futsal team $2000
Outdoor Zone Club $500 plus travel expenses $1500
State Team $2000
Normal Club $500
Extra private coaching $500-$1000

Crazy Huh!

the problem is as anyone who is involved in any clubs would know most of the fees that come go to football nsw. the clubs arnt left with that much, in a nswpl side or superleague they dont chard the players to sign up, which is where the revenue inbalance comes (you pay as a senior to play your district prem league or all age) so the incentive from football nsw is to make the youth league more expensive so they can pay for the seniors simple as that. alot of the seniors dont even get paid to be honest with some "stars" earning more than others but all up its f/all. they say you need 100k to 200k a year to run a team in the state league and where do clubs get this money from? thats why the go broke or struggle and alot of the way they survive is from passion from "ethnic" members or members of the community which spend countless hours running canteens, coaching for free, organising dinners to get revenue etc.
in short these clubs pretty much survive on community support and very tight budgets (some teams get an annual amount from there main communiuty club (eg marconi club gives marconi soccer team x amount of dollars a year to help run it) so yes there is no money for salary caps etc, its all a waste. these clubs should just stick around doing what they do best, bringing up new talent, giving young guys a chance to play soccer into there senior years
at a high level and maintain interest and thats it.

now if they made a second tier that has been discussed before the only way to do it would
be to prob sell the club to a private consortium and they could run it like amn a league club etc.

as for abuse etc, the last game i went to for sydney FC made me sick, it was a AFC qualifier
a couple o years back and the "cove" where singing


With a knick-knack, paddy whack,
Give a dog a bone,
Asian Bastards F#ck off home.

havent been since

Simple solution is media needs to get behind the comp and the clubs need to look at were FNSW uses the money they get from the clubs to promote the competition and ask were the money goes?

If FNSW gave FFT 50k im sure they could run news on the comp

I thought i remembered yourself suggesting 5k club fees to subsidise senior player wages, or was that someone else?

Interesting comments re state league clubs.

But I will take you up on the Cove comment - having spent a fair chunk of the previous 6 seasons in the Cove I can put my hand on my heart and honestly say that I have not heard a racist chant there yet - or indeed from any rival supporter group. And if one or two people started it, it would be quashed immediately by the Cove who are pretty massive in the anti-racist thing.

(the closest thing I heard was "you only sing when you're whaling" to a Japanese club)

Don't know how to put this Sav without hurting your feelings, but you're lying, this did not happen. Oh and I was at those games btw.

When I went to the SFS to watch AEK v Hakoa

The COVE were chanting you are all MALAKES is that in the spirit of things?

What's a Hakoa?

I'd say more than a few Cove members are of Greek background, and probably Pana/Olympiakos fans.