Organisation of Islamic Co-operation bloc pushing to make blasphemy against international law.


Organisation of Islamic Co-operation bloc pushing to make blasphemy...

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notorganic
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Haha, probably. I've been too tired lately.

Can you do me a favour? Next time they are live streaming can you call The Atheist Experience and have that discussion with Matt Dilahunty? I'll dissect the afters.
General Ashnak
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notorganic wrote:
Haha, probably. I've been too tired lately.

Can you do me a favour? Next time they are live streaming can you call The Atheist Experience and have that discussion with Matt Dilahunty? I'll dissect the afters.

I can try, I am at work so can you tell me who, what, where & when, since I already know the why :)

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- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
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notorganic
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http://www.atheist-experience.com/

The next call in show is on the 14th October. It would be 8am on Monday 15th morning for you.
General Ashnak
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notorganic wrote:
http://www.atheist-experience.com/

The next call in show is on the 14th October. It would be 8am on Monday 15th morning for you.

Wow, that is early on a workday - I will see what I can do, but can't promise anything :(

The thing about football - the important thing about football - is its not just about football.
- Sir Terry Pratchett in Unseen Academicals
For pro/rel in Australia across the entire pyramid, the removal of artificial impediments to the development of the game and its players.
On sabbatical Youth Coach and formerly part of The Cove FC

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On the actual subject her, I believe it was voltire that said; I disagree with everything you say and stand for, but I will defend your right to say it to the death.

under Blasphemy laws this would not be something we would be able to do. Although, many people would surely be put to death for saying what they felt or believed or even trolled.
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11.mvfc.11 wrote:
I'm sorry; but if freedom to you is the denigration of someone's faith, then you have a long way to come as a person.


Heheeeeee
paulbagzFC
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notorganic wrote:
11.mvfc.11 wrote:
I'm sorry; but if freedom to you is the denigration of someone's faith, then you have a long way to come as a person.


Heheeeeee


Awkies?

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

Aikhme
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notorganic wrote:
zimbos_05 wrote:
notorganic wrote:
zimbos_05 wrote:
You have no factual proof that the Quran was not revealed to Muhammad PBUH via the angel Gabriel from Allah.....


There's a disconnect here between the religious and non-religious on where the burden of proof lies.

My thoughts are pretty simple and echo Carl Sagan - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claiming that the Quran was revealed to Muhammad via a supernatural being is a pretty extraordinary claim.


But so is claiming that God doesnt exist.. is it not?


Claiming that god exists is the positive claim, that's what requires the evidence.

I think you will find that the vast majority of Atheists do not claim that a god DOES NOT exist, but rather there is insufficient evidence to support the claim that a god DOES exist.

Not that it has anything to do with the stifling of criticism of religions, though.

I wonder how these international laws would work for blasphemy against other religions by the religious (ie: some Christians may find the assertion that Jesus was only a prophet rather than the Son of God blasphemous).


So Atheists are Agnostic rather than Atheist.

I call myself Atheist as I don't believe in God, but I can't categorically say that God does not exist 100%. I mean, how would I know that? How does anyone know? So maybe I am Agnostic.

However, as far as religions go, I do respect them particularly on the Christian side of things. I view them as overall forces for good. Part of me is very cultural and I love the cultural aspect of the Orthodox Faith, and the iconography.
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Aikhme wrote:
notorganic wrote:
zimbos_05 wrote:
notorganic wrote:
zimbos_05 wrote:
You have no factual proof that the Quran was not revealed to Muhammad PBUH via the angel Gabriel from Allah.....


There's a disconnect here between the religious and non-religious on where the burden of proof lies.

My thoughts are pretty simple and echo Carl Sagan - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claiming that the Quran was revealed to Muhammad via a supernatural being is a pretty extraordinary claim.


But so is claiming that God doesnt exist.. is it not?


Claiming that god exists is the positive claim, that's what requires the evidence.

I think you will find that the vast majority of Atheists do not claim that a god DOES NOT exist, but rather there is insufficient evidence to support the claim that a god DOES exist.

Not that it has anything to do with the stifling of criticism of religions, though.

I wonder how these international laws would work for blasphemy against other religions by the religious (ie: some Christians may find the assertion that Jesus was only a prophet rather than the Son of God blasphemous).


So Atheists are Agnostic rather than Atheist.

I call myself Atheist as I don't believe in God, but I can't categorically say that God does not exist 100%. I mean, how would I know that? How does anyone know? So maybe I am Agnostic.

However, as far as religions go, I do respect them particularly on the Christian side of things. I view them as overall forces for good. Part of me is very cultural and I love the cultural aspect of the Orthodox Faith, and the iconography.


plus in Cyprus, the Orthodox church has all the fucking money
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adrtho wrote:
Aikhme wrote:
notorganic wrote:
zimbos_05 wrote:
notorganic wrote:
zimbos_05 wrote:
You have no factual proof that the Quran was not revealed to Muhammad PBUH via the angel Gabriel from Allah.....


There's a disconnect here between the religious and non-religious on where the burden of proof lies.

My thoughts are pretty simple and echo Carl Sagan - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claiming that the Quran was revealed to Muhammad via a supernatural being is a pretty extraordinary claim.


But so is claiming that God doesnt exist.. is it not?


Claiming that god exists is the positive claim, that's what requires the evidence.

I think you will find that the vast majority of Atheists do not claim that a god DOES NOT exist, but rather there is insufficient evidence to support the claim that a god DOES exist.

Not that it has anything to do with the stifling of criticism of religions, though.

I wonder how these international laws would work for blasphemy against other religions by the religious (ie: some Christians may find the assertion that Jesus was only a prophet rather than the Son of God blasphemous).


So Atheists are Agnostic rather than Atheist.

I call myself Atheist as I don't believe in God, but I can't categorically say that God does not exist 100%. I mean, how would I know that? How does anyone know? So maybe I am Agnostic.

However, as far as religions go, I do respect them particularly on the Christian side of things. I view them as overall forces for good. Part of me is very cultural and I love the cultural aspect of the Orthodox Faith, and the iconography.


plus in Cyprus, the Orthodox church has all the fucking money


It's an old organisation and it has a lot of land. This religion is about 2000 years old. And it has a lot of artifacts and priceless icons.

The Catholic and Anglican Church also has a lot of money.
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Aikhme wrote:
So Atheists are Agnostic rather than Atheist.

I call myself Atheist as I don't believe in God, but I can't categorically say that God does not exist 100%. I mean, how would I know that? How does anyone know? So maybe I am Agnostic.


The definitions can get a little pedantic, but I interpret it this way:

If you are open to the possibility of the existence of god, but just think there is not yet sufficient evidence, I would say your agnostic.

If you believe that there is sufficient evidence about how the universe works to conclude that there is no god, then I would say you are an atheist.

There are also some people who actively BELIEVE there is no god in the same way religious people BELIEVE there is one. But I would say this is a small minority, since such absolutes work against the rationalist, science-based underpinnings of atheism.

In absolutist terms, even an atheist cannot preclude the possibility that a supernatural god may exist. But that is because science-based empirical approaches deny the possibility of absolute conclusions.

But what they can do is state that, based on the evidence that exists, it is possible to conclude that the likelihood of a supernatural god existing is so low as to be extremely unlikely, and you can for all practical purposes dismiss it as a possibility.

Richard Dawkins uses this analogy to define this view of atheism:

"I cannot absolutely deny the possibility that there is a teapot in orbit around Jupiter that controls the universe. I cannot prove that this is not true, because we don't have telescopes powerful enough to detect a teapot if it was in orbit around Jupiter. However, given what we do know about the universe, and how it works, I can conclude that the likelihood of a teapot controlling the universe is so remote and unlikely, that I can effectively dismiss it as a possibility".

Edited by AzzaMarch: 11/5/2016 11:05:58 AM
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AzzaMarch wrote:
Aikhme wrote:
So Atheists are Agnostic rather than Atheist.

I call myself Atheist as I don't believe in God, but I can't categorically say that God does not exist 100%. I mean, how would I know that? How does anyone know? So maybe I am Agnostic.


The definitions can get a little pedantic, but I interpret it this way:

If you are open to the possibility of the existence of god, but just think there is not yet sufficient evidence, I would say your agnostic.

If you believe that there is sufficient evidence about how the universe works to conclude that there is no god, then I would say you are an atheist.

There are also some people who actively BELIEVE there is no god in the same way religious people BELIEVE there is one. But I would say this is a small minority, since such absolutes work against the rationalist, science-based underpinnings of atheism.

In absolutist terms, even an atheist cannot preclude the possibility that a supernatural god may exist. But that is because science-based empirical approaches deny the possibility of absolute conclusions.

But what they can do is state that, based on the evidence that exists, it is possible to conclude that the likelihood of a supernatural god existing is so low as to be extremely unlikely, and you can for all practical purposes dismiss it as a possibility.

Richard Dawkins uses this analogy to define this view of atheism:

"I cannot absolutely deny the possibility that there is a teapot in orbit around Jupiter that controls the universe. I cannot prove that this is not true, because we don't have telescopes powerful enough to detect a teapot if it was in orbit around Jupiter. However, given what we do know about the universe, and how it works, I can conclude that the likelihood of a teapot controlling the universe is so remote and unlikely, that I can effectively dismiss it as a possibility".

Edited by AzzaMarch: 11/5/2016 11:05:58 AM


Oh ok thanks.

Based on the interpretations, I am probably Atheist with a slight lean to Agnosticism. I think all Atheists probably are.

I say that because we do not know fully how the universe really works. There is still a lot of mystery out there.
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11.mvfc.11 wrote:
paulbagzFC wrote:
notorganic wrote:
11.mvfc.11 wrote:
I'm sorry; but if freedom to you is the denigration of someone's faith, then you have a long way to come as a person.


Heheeeeee


Awkies?

-PB



I fully retract my statement. It would appear that I have grown up to see Islam for what it is. If only the rest of our nation could do the same.


Out of interest, what has swayed your opinion in such a short time?

Usually with people it takes more than just a few years to completely change mindsets on things.

What sites do you frequent?

Just wondering so I can try and get a more complete pictures of all sides of a story.

-PB

https://i.imgur.com/batge7K.jpg

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[size=9]W E W L A D
E
W
L
A
D
[/size]

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11.mvfc.11 wrote:
It must be stressed that I don't have a problem with Islam.

[youtube]IdtKbq3Omkw[/youtube]

For the first time, but certainly not the last, I began to believe that Arsenals moods and fortunes somehow reflected my own. - Hornby

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For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.

For the first time, but certainly not the last, I began to believe that Arsenals moods and fortunes somehow reflected my own. - Hornby

433
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salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.
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433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.
Not saying I disagree since that is mostly true, but Iran is actually quite progressive when it comes to transsexuality. Second highest in the world in gender realignments after (surprise surprise) Thailand. The state covers half the cost for those who need it and they change your gender on your birth certificate.

Islam may be stuck in the dark ages in 2016, but like every religion it has ambiguous morals and contradictions. Muslim players in my soccer team wear rainbow laces in support of gay rights, I've also met muslims who wish the Nazis won WW2 and killed all the jews. Its a large spectrum but it can be reformed.
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tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.
Not saying I disagree since that is mostly true, but Iran is actually quite progressive when it comes to transsexuality. Second highest in the world in gender realignments after (surprise surprise) Thailand. The state covers half the cost for those who need it and they change your gender on your birth certificate.


Which is ironic, given that male homosexuality is punishable by death.
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rocknerd wrote:
Just a couple of NOFX song from the album coaster that some up my feelings.
Quote:
Blasphemy Thwe Victimless Crime
NOFX

I'll throw a pie in the face of piety
I'll torch a torah right off a bridge
I am a reverend of irreverence
I'm a shill for any sacrilege
I understand that faith in a deity
Helps the masses who are having hard times
But blasphemy like prostitution
Are clearly victimless crimes
Blasphemy, blasphe-you, Jesus Christ the blackest Jew
Blasphe-you, blasphemy, poisonous pedagogy
I'm an unbeliever, I'm a heretic
I'm gonna projectile puke off a pew
I'm a trouble making immature imp
I'm gonna turn your other cheek for you
I understand we all need something to believe in
I believe I'll never be given wings and
I'm sorry if it's up there cuz I didn't think
A song was gonna hurt it's feelings
Blasphemy, speaking deadpan
Apparently this god has got a master plan
Now they call foul, pure heresy
But ya gotta wonder, does he have a plan B?
Horus similar to Mithra, Attis analogous to Krishna
Jesus, different name same story
All based on ancient Egyptian allegory
My position hasn't been occulted
It can never be more overstated
My intelligence has been insulted
So my tongue lashes out in defense
Anything that is your holy or sacred
I'm gonna desecrate and use in jest
But you'll never hear a crack about Mohammed
Cuz I don't wanna get shot in the chest
Blasphemy, isn't this fun
Rob a rabbi, bugger a nun
Blasphemy, want some more?



Quote:
NOFX - BEST GOD IN SHOW LYRICS
I have no consideration, Zero mutual respect

For billions who suffer from rational thought neglect

I don't wanna waste a sentence, I don't want a conversation

That's gonna end in disdain disbelief and aggravation


And I find it's getting harder to hang out

With grown adults who actually believe

In Santa Clause and Noah's Ark, and Their god is the best

My distaste has turned into detest


Who would read a 2000-year-old medical journal?

Techniques for blood-letting

Advice on trichinosis , Would you navigate the globe

With a map of a flat Earth?

Without DNA testing would you believe virgin birth?


And I find it's getting painful to put up

With grown adults who actually believe

In unicorns and creation and god always takes their side

That's when my innocent jabbing turns snide


Thank god for the Grammy

Thank god for the touchdown

Thank god for blowing up the enemy's sacred ground

So how am I supposed to take anything you say seriously

When you swap free will for faith, hope and pre-destiny?


And it's getting agonizing to hang out

With grown adults who actually believe

Mythology and history trump physics and science

My aversion has turned to abhorrence



Hang on, this wouldn't be the same NOFX who take Michael Moore seriously, idolise Noam Chomsky or thought that releasing a compilation of angry liberal punks raging would stop Bush getting re-elected, would it?

[youtube]ZSb3nG4oTNQ[/youtube]


Nah couldn't be- anybody as clearly enlightened as them would NEVER fall for any of that other bullshit. Not like the billions of idiots who disagree with them and are clearly wrong...



Edited by Captain Haddock: 12/5/2016 11:49:14 AM

There are only two intellectually honest debate tactics: (a) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts, or (b) pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic. All other debate tactics are intellectually dishonest - John T. Reed

The Most Popular Presidential Candidate Of All Time (TM) cant go to a sports stadium in the country he presides over. Figure that one out...




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433 wrote:
tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.
Not saying I disagree since that is mostly true, but Iran is actually quite progressive when it comes to transsexuality. Second highest in the world in gender realignments after (surprise surprise) Thailand. The state covers half the cost for those who need it and they change your gender on your birth certificate.


Which is ironic, given that male homosexuality is punishable by death.
Not at all if you change your gender.
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Do you want to keep pretending that all cultures are equal?

The West either has to accept that it is allowable to throw homos off buildings or that backward savages are not our cultural equals and that their medieval beliefs have no place in our countries.
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433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.

You are aware that gay people get stoned to death or thrown off a rooftop some countries in the Middle East.
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tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.
Not saying I disagree since that is mostly true, but Iran is actually quite progressive when it comes to transsexuality. Second highest in the world in gender realignments after (surprise surprise) Thailand. The state covers half the cost for those who need it and they change your gender on your birth certificate.


Which is ironic, given that male homosexuality is punishable by death.
Not at all if you change your gender.

What do you think would happen to catelyn Jenner if she took a stroll in Mosul?
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SocaWho wrote:
tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.
Not saying I disagree since that is mostly true, but Iran is actually quite progressive when it comes to transsexuality. Second highest in the world in gender realignments after (surprise surprise) Thailand. The state covers half the cost for those who need it and they change your gender on your birth certificate.


Which is ironic, given that male homosexuality is punishable by death.
Not at all if you change your gender.

What do you think would happen to catelyn Jenner if she took a stroll in Mosul?


She better not be an atheist.
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SocaWho wrote:
433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.

You are aware that gay people get stoned to death or thrown off a rooftop some countries in the Middle East.


I'm not sure what you're saying here, I agree with you?
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SocaWho wrote:
tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.
Not saying I disagree since that is mostly true, but Iran is actually quite progressive when it comes to transsexuality. Second highest in the world in gender realignments after (surprise surprise) Thailand. The state covers half the cost for those who need it and they change your gender on your birth certificate.


Which is ironic, given that male homosexuality is punishable by death.
Not at all if you change your gender.

What do you think would happen to catelyn Jenner if she took a stroll in Mosul?
Probably raped then thrown off a building. Whats your point?

The next part of my quote that got cut out says Islam needs to be reformed and that its possible since there can be multiple interpretations.
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11.mvfc.11 wrote:
tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
tbitm wrote:
433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.
Not saying I disagree since that is mostly true, but Iran is actually quite progressive when it comes to transsexuality. Second highest in the world in gender realignments after (surprise surprise) Thailand. The state covers half the cost for those who need it and they change your gender on your birth certificate.


Which is ironic, given that male homosexuality is punishable by death.
Not at all if you change your gender.
Are you saying that trans women aren't really trans, just super committed gay dudes? That's pretty bigoted of you man

Edited by 11.mvfc.11: 12/5/2016 01:09:57 PM


That is essentially what Iran thinks. You pretty much get to choose a sex reassignment surgery, death or exile. Vice on HBO did a brilliant documentary about it. You should find it online and watch it.
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11.mvfc.11 wrote:
433 wrote:
salmonfc wrote:
For someone who doesn't have a problem with Islam, you certainly have a lot of heated discussions about Islam and Muslims.

Just like you don't have a problem with LGBT people.


If you cared about LGBT people you'd have a problem with Islam.
This. You are well on the way to being one of the many regressive liberal youths. Can't wait til you start rocking the hammer and sickle.

This bump has shown that a conservative nature isn't systemised hate. I have lived both sides and seen liberalism for what it is- a sham.

Edited by 11.mvfc.11: 11/5/2016 08:59:49 PM

toppest of keks

For the first time, but certainly not the last, I began to believe that Arsenals moods and fortunes somehow reflected my own. - Hornby

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