I think people underestimate how good of a crowd 5,000 was a decade ago.

In this day and age with fox sports hyping the league to absurd levels, social media running rampant/forums, constant radio coverage, every single match live on tv...it really is unforgiveable to see crowds of 4,500 in a professional league unless its some village team thats been promoted from the 4th tier like you see in Europe, in this country its no excuse, but more specifically its no excuse in this city especially when you have MV providing a big platform for Heart to grow from...the fact that Heart for the best part of 2 years can come out and spank MV in front of a huge audience and yet return back to thousands upon thousands of empty green seats at aami park....the club doesnt really seem to register with the casual football followers of this city.

South Melbourne will never enter the A-League because it is still an ethnic club, can only imagine the crap that would happen before and after Melb Victory and SM play, would be racism at its finest.. Melb Vic - Aussies/Italians vs South Melb - Greeks.. would be chaos.. lol

Think I missed that memo?

-PB

Well that's my point. Derbies have attracted neutrals and are growing the game in general. So the misconception that 20,000 Victory fans fill our derbies and pay for our club is wrong. Victory's attendance against Heart was double any other attendance so far this year. Both clubs are benefiting.

Edited by Adrian72: 11/12/2012 05:41:07 PM[/quote]
Wait, so you're saying that round 1 was double MV's crowds. Meaning, we have 20k. Your words, not mine :P

Wait, so you're saying that round 1 was double MV's crowds. Meaning, we have 20k. Your words, not mine :P[/quote]

MV v Green Gully would attract "neutrals", any sort of derby is going to attract neutrals, hell it did back in the day when SM use to play Carlton...they had about 1,000 fans at the most but because it was a derby it was a crowd puller...so anyone would benefit from that.

What you havent heard of the aussie/italian connection against the Greeks? I must have missed the memo as well since im an Aussie and go for SM....i must be a traitor:lol:

Missed my point. I'll put it in bold.

Edited by Ali07: 11/12/2012 07:48:53 PM

But clearly most of the neutrals lean towards MV as they have a history of pulling similar attendances against Sydney and Adelaide over the years...Heart games dont, the issue is that Heart can only attract an audience neutral or otherwise when MV are part of the show, eliminate MV and its empty seats city.

This would be the likely breakdown of round 1

21k Victory fans, the ones that mostly turn up for most games.
15k neutrals, mostly the types that have a history over the last 8 yrs of only attending Victory blockbuster games.
6k, Heart.

Even if Heart wins (and they do) the neutrals still lean towards MV anyway.

This thread is still going.................................. zzzzz

Wait, so you're saying that round 1 was double MV's crowds. Meaning, we have 20k. Your words, not mine :P[/quote]

Hang on, you're not quite getting my point. Of course MV have 20,000 people who go regularly, but not all of them go to our home game. For one thing, it's not part of your membership.

Anyway, it's just a small point in a tiresome discussion.

So, to sum up the arguments raised for parachuting South Melbourne in to save the A-league (at 3 years tops, the whole charade must be in imminent danger of expiry):

1. Looking back 10 years and cherrypicking the best from their last years in the NSL (making sure to ignore the averages, the sub-4k crowds or the 6k in their last ever finals match) South had attendances of 10k once or twice, against one of the top teams, in seasons when they made the finals.
2. On the solid grounds of the above, and also turning a blind eye to their current VPL attendances, they will surely have a minimum 7k rusted-on fans every game.
3. They have a generous lease on an athletics stadium
4. They will get good attendances in their home games against the Victory

All seem compelling. :-k

However this thread might be more suited to the State league section until South take their winning bid to the FFA.

Joffa!!! - can you please post the following as I along with many others would like a clean comparison and I know you have this data at your fingertips

Last 3 seasons by year:

1/ Melbourne Hearts Average attendance minus the Derby Matches

2/ Melbourne Victory's Average attendance minus the Derby Matches

why dont you put up Sth Melbourne's Average attendance minus the Derby Matches for the last 3 seasons of NSL by year?

Melbourne Heart attendances in order regular season v opposition


Season One

11,050 Central Coast Mariners
5,878 Perth Glory
4,184 North Queensland Fury
5,698 Wellington Phoenix
25,897 Melbourne Victory
6,105 Gold Coast United
7,034 Brisbane Roar
6,538 Adelaide United
5,128 Sydney FC
2,754 Newcastle Jets
23,059 Melbourne Victory
6,482 North Queensland Fury
5,187 Gold Coast United
3,667 Central Coast Mariners
6,019 Sydney FC

124,725 aggregate, 8,315 average, 15 games

Last Season

7,229 Perth Glory
5,666 Sydney FC
5,914 Newcastle Jets
2951 Wellington Phoenix Morwell
26,579 Melbourne Victory
8,272 Adelaide United
7,233 Perth Glory
5,522 Central Coast Mariners
7,118 Brisbane Roar
26,395 Melbourne Victory
4,972 Gold Coast United
5,034 Central Coast Mariners
6,759 Wellington Phoenix
7,498 Sydney FC

127,142 aggregate, 9,082 average, 14 games

This Season
11,007 Wellington Phoenix
6,357 Central Coast Mariners
5,466 Brisbane Roar
7,125 Newcastle Jets
4,505 Perth Glory


34,460 aggregate, 6,892 average, 5 games


124,725 aggregate, 8,315 average, 15 games
127,142 aggregate, 9,082 average, 14 games
34,460 aggregate, 6,892 average, 5 games

Aggregate 3 seasons total

286,327 aggregate, 8,421 average, 34 games


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_A-League#Crowds




Melbourne Heart attendances in order against opposition

11,050 Central Coast Mariners
3,667 Central Coast Mariners
5,522 Central Coast Mariners
5,034 Central Coast Mariners
6,357 Central Coast Mariners


5,878 Perth Glory
7,229 Perth Glory
7,233 Perth Glory
4,505 Perth Glory

5,698 Wellington Phoenix
2951 Wellington Phoenix Morwell
6,759 Wellington Phoenix
11,007 Wellington Phoenix


25,897 Melbourne Victory
23,059 Melbourne Victory
26,579 Melbourne Victory
26,395 Melbourne Victory

7,034 Brisbane Roar
7,118 Brisbane Roar
5,466 Brisbane Roar

6,538 Adelaide United
8,272 Adelaide United

5,128 Sydney FC
6,019 Sydney FC
5,666 Sydney FC
7,498 Sydney FC

2,754 Newcastle Jets
5,914 Newcastle Jets
7,125 Newcastle Jets


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_A-League#Crowds

Average without derbies 6,147

Edited by Joffa: 11/12/2012 10:42:23 PM

How about we look back to last week

HAL is now seen as a Tier 2 level comp by the AFC on the back of the following

Crowds
$$$
Number of teams

So where exactly is the Heart's contribution???

Why should they be given more time as their small number of fans are calling out for when there are teams in this country that could clearly deliver much much more

Their operational model is what caused the GFC - over promising -> -> under delivering

Will a 26k crowd in a couple of weeks, the majority of which will be Victory cufanss make them viable & prevent them from banking another 3m loss? Will any of these derby observers seriously following them?

Let me answer for you...[size=9]NO!![/size]

How many derbies have passed so far since their incepwtion? 6-7? & yet last week they pull 4.5k and their average is 6.9K which is skewed on the back of the VPL GF (4K were there for the VPL GF).

The only way the Heart can achieve a growth year is having 2 derbies compared to 1

(expecting response HAL V NSL V Mono Ethnic clubs etc)



Edited by chris: 11/12/2012 10:49:51 PM

Thanks mate - pretty much says it all

What about the Victory minus the Derby Factor?

Edited by chris: 11/12/2012 10:50:45 PM

Melbourne Heart averages without derbies

Season one - 75,769 = 5,828
Season two - 74,168 = 6,181
Season three - 34,460 = 6,892

N.B figures include regional rounds

Edited by Joffa: 11/12/2012 10:55:15 PM

why dont you put up Sth Melbourne's Average attendance minus the Derby Matches for the last 3 seasons of NSL by year?

why dont you put up Sth Melbourne's Average attendance minus the Derby Matches for the last 3 seasons of NSL by year?

burp

why dont you put up Sth Melbourne's Average attendance minus the Derby Matches for the last 3 seasons of NSL by year?

why dont you put up Sth Melbourne's Average attendance minus the Derby Matches for the last 3 seasons of NSL by year?

17,405

I am making a comparison with the Victory - not south melbourne

Edited by chris: 11/12/2012 11:03:02 PM

cheers mate

Victory wins 3 to 1 (give or take) - a fair reflection of what a derby consists of minus the layers of ceremony and fanfair

Further data:

Victory home average (less derbies):      
2010-11   14020   (15234 with derby, impact of derby +8.66%)
2011-12   18703   (20281 with derby, impact of derby +8.43%)
      
Heart home average (less derbies):      
2010-11   5828   (8312 with 2 derbies, impact +42.62%)
2011-12   6180   (9082 with 2 derbies, impact +46.95%)

Just as I thought - The Melbourne Heart like to put a pair of socks in their jocks to make themselves seem bigger than what they really are

Like I said they are the analogy of a chicken sitting on a brick waiting for it to hatch

For me this is the most important data, real growth is happening

Melbourne Heart averages without derbies

Season one - 75,769 = 5,828
Season two - 74,168 = 6,181
Season three - 34,460 = 6,892

N.B figures include regional rounds

Way too much inflation = GFC