Here's my interpretation..

Football started in the mid 19th century but never caught on...

A century later, immigrants came along and set up clubs, which have lasted 50 years... but football still didn't catch on

Yet strangely, despite 150 years of inactivity BEFORE and DURING the ethnics arrived, it's the ethnics who want all the credit for bringing the game here.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Those damn dirty ethnics hey Rusty?

Oh wait I'm ethnic as well. I better stop being involved with football I must be a problem.

Sure,

European immigration in the 50's and 60's led to the establishment of ethnically-based clubs which facilitated unprecedented development of the game itself (i.e.: players, coaches, facilities), yet at the same time restricted the potential of football to these communities.

Thought it was obvious...

Souf Mel,bum is a typical Sokkahh Wog club where only your gyro munching greasy wogs with the hair gel dripping off their head like a chicks pussy after an orgasm. Many a time I went to the game and had the old malakas ask me why I or how I supported Souf when I was a Skippy Joe and not a Gyro George as if it was some taboo thing for a typical Aussier lad to like round ball football.

Ahh sorry moderators isn't that ^ close to a banning offence?

I take note of the game this Saturday with Victory and Sydney FC taking into consideration of the above comments abouth ethnic involvement in the game in the 1950's and 1960's from what i read in Johnny Warren's book and can only wonder what it was like.

But this weeks game with Del Perio the star attraction must be what it was like.

Warren wrote about Baumgartner as a true star of the game and others that were full Austrian Internationals (A time when Austrian football was held in high regard) Czechoslovakian Internationals and in Melbourne where we had Polish, Dutch former Internationals and for the South Melbourne faithful an ageing Con Nestoridis former Greek International and alltime Greek League top Scorer.

Maybe that is the link of the 50/60's with today? The glamour of name players, internationals quality players that draws the crowds.

Hopefully more "Marquees" of the Del Piero quality come to this country to reignite the love of this game.

Maybe some more respectful comments of what was achieved in this era is approriate.

And reverting this to Melbourne Heart maybe what they need to resonate in the Melbourne Footballing Community.

Fair enough, but you seem to attribute most of the blame for the demise of the NSL to the so-called "Mono-ethnic" clubs. There were many factors at play.

Bullshit the fact that there were riots between South and Melbourne Knights etc every few eeks and the unwillingness of people to get involved in a greek oriented club for example were the centre of all problems. This is why games struggled to attract wide audiences in Melbourne compared to Adleiade and Perth.

whaaat? He didn't mention the demise of the nsl. :? They restricted the game taking off willingly in most cases.

*rolls eyes*

Okay, let me rephrase:

...you seem to attribute most of the blame for "holding the game back" to the so-called "Mono-ethnic" clubs. There were many factors at play.

You're rolling your eyes when they're not even similar comments?:d The NSL's demise correctly had many factors, but mono-ethnicity playing a role in "restricting the game taking off" which was the comment, how is that debatable?:d The only way you could debate it is to put all the a-league success down to marketing but then you would have to ignore the success broad based clubs had in the NSL in engaging supporters who have grown to support the game interdependently from mono-ethnic clubs. If not engaging them for many years is not restricting the games growth idk what is? :d

Here is my version

150 years ago - Cricket was the colonial game and AFL was invented to use the cricket grounds in winter
Interesting how it took a bunch of uneducated ethnics to produce the first ever national competition in this country
Interesting how that era is now to blame for everything prior to privatising the game

You are a clueless gimp. The first known soccer matches and the introduction of soccer to Australia happened to involve the same so called ethnics of British heritage who played cricket and footy (league and AFL)

In other words - you're upset that the ethnics want credit, but you can't actually blame them for holding back a game which had been holding itself back for 100 years before they got started.

I have no problem with the first part of that - you not wanting them to take any credit... But I'm still baffled by the insistence of some here that they have to take the blame.

They are very similar comments; you are just trying to score a point.

Speaking of points, you miss mine. I'm not saying it wasn't a factor, but that it was one of many factors. sydneyfc1987 only talks about "mono-ethnic clubs" as if it was THE factor. Get it?

And what do we blame the first 100 years of failure on? It went from very small in the 'pre-ethnic' era, to small in the 'ethnic era', to reasonably sized in the 'post-ethnic' era.

Progress = good. However, to blame ethnics for holding the game back, when they clearly played a huge part in taking it from almost-non-existent to having a national league, is folly.

I don't think anyone can reasonably blame any 'ethnics' whether they be clubs or people for the state of the game prior to the A-League. To have the view that the supporters, clubs and administrators were deliberately holding the game back is a particularly naive view of the history of Football in Australia.

Even during the NSL era there was a recognition that the game needed to become more mainstream in order to grow and clubs needed to become broad based to grow their clubs and the game...this must be difficult to acheive whilst also staying relevant and true to a clubs support base.

I think for the good of the game the former NSL clubs need to welcomed into the current football framework and not treated like pariahs. I am sure they all have a lot to offer and their participation should be encouraged...the difficulty is finding the best way for this to occur....in my opinion needlesly advocating for the removal of an A-League club is not the correct way to move forward.


Edited by Joffa: 24/1/2013 11:58:06 PM

I wouldn't pin the blame on ethnic clubs for holding the game back, rather for failing to adapt and grow with demand, and eventually relegating themselves from the national set up.

Football started out as small local clubs, evolved into larger migrant community clubs and eventually became the mainstream enterprises we see today.

This is progress, South represents something from another era.

Agree with all but the final line.

Progress is good - barring anyone from moving with that progress - or placing barriers in the way of them attempting to do so - simply because they were part of the previous phase, appears a backward step rather than a forward one.

Imagine the enormous gains for grass-roots football if just one 'ethnic' club got it's shit together and made it to the A-league - every other club with ambition would have the road-map... Improve your facilities, improve your revenue streams, act professionally, work with (rather than against) the authorities, etc.

Instead, we have so many people just slamming the door and saying 'never' - it's no more construction than those on the 'ethnic' side who say 'f*ck the FFA' (a sentiment that I, and the majority of South supporters I talk to don't promote).

I wouldn't be confident there would be "enormous gains" by allowing an ethnic club in the A league.

Most clubs know their fate is sealed and there's little to no chance of ever being let in, even IF South were. For South to get back in they would need to undergo massive change internally and externally, that would frighten most clubs from taking that road-map..

Football should be able to grow organically without having to force the ethnic angle.

this is actually a good discussion

.

I would actually say that evolving a team to enter the HAL as less taxing that what it would have been to pioneer the 1st national competition in Australia back in 1977

I think clubs that want to hang on to their explicit ethnic origin with a broader scope will die out - even at state levels

Cro69 is from my era as a vintage 1969 - now unless Melbourne Knights transform to be more open to other communities they will eventually represent a very small minority - like me he may be extremely proud of his club - but will his kids and grandchildren feel the same way about MK if the club remains in it's current identity

I understand the MK's have become more of a production line these days with most of its activity below the line and lacking any real intention to ever play at a national level

But the fact that smfc will always push to play at the highest possible level means that the ckub is the identity - not an ethnic origin - that will always remain as part of the clubs decorated past - but the club is the identity first and foremost

This needs to happen from the fans as well. Continual put downs of former NSL clubs are never going to help the issue. I agree about advocating the removal of Heart isn't the best way to forge links either.

Us on the supposed "ethnic" side of the game need to do a bit more at times to accept the new football structure. But that doesn't mean having to support an A-League side, but as shown at times in this thread discussion on how Heart can improve, rather than wanting them removed.

Another club failing isn't going to help the aspirations of any team wanting to join the top flight.

The original comment was not suggesting there was a single factor that held the game back but that "mono-ethnic" clubs were a factor that held it back. There will always be multiple factors that are holding the game back isn't that obvious?

It's folly to suggest there was continual progress, growth slowed then declined with the inability/unwillingness of mono-ethnic clubs to expand being a major factor. The decline decade or more was "holding the game back".

It is obvious to me, but perhaps not to sydneyfc1987. It still sounded like he/she made out that the "mono-ethnic" issue was the main reason for "stalled growth". I am happy to be corrected by him/her.

Anyway, we can just agree to disagree because there are better things to discuss.

Regarding your last sentence, most people do not want to kick Heart out of the league or if they did, have moved on from that position. Some of us are critical about it's direction, which is a different thing altogether.

Having said that, the title of this thread is a bit harsh and seems to get people upset, which can at times derail some very good discussion.

You guys can debate about this all you want, South isn't coming back.

Truer words have never been spoken.

If only some mono-ethnic clubs can show they have progressed without the lip service. In fact not only have they not been able to do that but in some instances have demonstrated that they have instrantengently remained the same.

Didn't suggest continual progress - made it quite clear that things have been better post-ethnic era than during the ethnic-era. My suggestion is that the same lack of interest from the 'mainstream'/Aussie market that killed the game for 100 years, continued during the ethnic-era.

Of course there were a multitude of factors. Poor administration at national level, negative media, relatively poor government funding just to name a few... Yet I look at things through my personal experience of being a football fan who's local support of the game couldn't extend beyond the Socceroos. Hell I even went to a couple of Sydney Olympic games during the time they played at Toyota Stadium in Cronulla but was never going to develop a connection to a club that basically represented the Sydney Greek community. In my opinion this restricted further potential growth which we can see now...