Trying to emphasize something with a capital letter-troll

It's the AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL sub forum.If you can't accept that then nick off-and take your Italian mate

You would know all about trolling after being banned from bigfooty for making a fool of yourself with your anti-Aussie Rules crap. Hypocrite! In fact there was a conspiracy theory on there at the time that you and Mr Football were the same person playing troll/anti-troll at once.

People can follow more than one sport passionately especially when their seasons don't clash. So code haters like yourself can GAGF!



Not based on this thread including your post. There's no 'code battle of Western Melbourne/Brisbane/Adelaide/Perth/Hobart/Canberra/Darwin etc ..." threads. The fear is definitely mainly emanating out of Sydney these days. Smell the fear! :lol: [/quote]

Its a shame Fourfourtwo doesn't remove the AFL trolls as Bigfooty does with the football ones.

The AFL loves membership numbers. According to a AFL fan forum the following is a rough range of membership dollars per member, Collingwood $230 per member and Richmond around $100 per member.

Given GWS would sell few full season tickets (i.e. Canberra games, WS games, kids, pets, j walkers and so forth) then you would expect their average per member would be closer to $100 rather than $200, if you consider Collingwood also sell memberships closer to $1,000 as well.

GWS crowds (except derby) do not get close to their membership number. Therefore you would expect they do not make much on gate takings excluding away supporters.

WSW have 6,300 members majority would have been season (or later ones for a block of games) they also get 5,400 more on their current home average to each game than members.

The cost of running a AFL club would be multiplies higher than a A-League club (coach wage, number of assistants for a start).

Then you get an appreciation just how much GWS is costing the AFL, they need growth not in $25 memberships but real crowds and season ticket holders to make this viable. Sure give them 20 years, but with Port and Brisbane (read the going concern note in the 2012 financial accounts for Brisbane) who have enjoyed on field success but who would be insolvent without the AFL/SANFL support. The GCS going backwards in year 2 will also not have been in the plan.

You wonder why the FFA/NRL have shelved expansion plans for the time being and the NRL has just helped itself to a shit load of TV money.

back on topic somewhat

football is part of western sydney we have so many people from so many different countries or parents came from different countries and they breathe football, i think its about 50% of socceroos are from western sydney

GWS just dont have that, to most people who come to this area AFL is a foreign game something they cannot feel passion for

where are GWS based? because WSW have really painted Parramatta red and black i am unsure if GWS has had the same impact in my entire time in living in western sydney i have yet to see one GWS jersey but i have seen numerous wanderers jersey i know things might change when GWS are winning but i doubt it i just dont see it as a place that AFL can easily flourish they spent so much money on GWS and the FFA have spent nothing comparatively on the wanderers

Victory is the biggest club in the country and daylight to the rest. I'll take note of all of us 40k+ "voyeurs of football" at Etihad this weekend ;). When the A-league started it was all Sydney FC will be the "bling" and biggest club BS. Only took Victory two years to destroy that fairytale wish :lol:.

Some hacks running around in the suburbs playing Soccer (I use to be one of them when I was younger btw) doesn't pay the bills for the sport (any sport for that matter) nor with juniors does it translate into senior support. Three of Richmond's first round AFL draft picks in the past 6 years (Trent Cotchin, Reece Conca & Nick Vlastuin) would've been chucked in the stats for registered Soccer players in their youth (pre-14 years old). So what! Netball has huge participation numbers yet they just lost their Ch 10 deal being classed by the network as a insignificant sport or words to that effect ... ouch! Money talks and Melbourne (Victory) comes up with the goods as far as attracting the crowds, tv ratings, major sponsors, etc to Soccer. Anyway this is now off-topic.

It's unfortunate that Netball lost their TV deal, they are the true standard bearer for Women's sport in this region.

You're forgetting other sources of revenue. For starters, the addition of the Suns and Giants was a significant contributory to the huge advance in TV rights, in other words, they have already paid for themselves.

Secondly, the Giants have the 3rd most valuable sponsorship book in the country - that's worth a fair bit of coin right there.

Although the Victory vs SFC attracted 50,000 in season 2, and last week could only manage a paltry 26k.

I thought the media rights were $1.25B, not $2.25B...

Undoubtedly, but again a sport with only a really small int'l profile & I think football now has bigger participation rate than Netball.
As a matter of fact the womens football world cup is the biggest women's sporting event in the world & one of the biggest sporting events on our calendar. Far bigger than either than either the AFL or NRL Grand Finals, not bad for a womens team sporting event.

Maybe with the success of Sydney FC women's team, we can see the W-League grow.

Collingwood v Swans still biggest AFL match in Sydney.

I think you will find the Melbourne derby (next week) is now the biggest football game in Melbourne surpassing the 'big Blue', so you will need to compare next week's crowd to the 50K in season 2.

You've gotta be joking don't ya??
26k is capacity at AAMI, the game was sold out 5 days before kickoff.
I'm not talking 50k, but I'm 100% sure we wouldve got at least another 10k more through the gates. That's a gimme!

Edited by asanchez: 29/1/2013 07:02:19 PM

Relax mate, just playing along with the game.

Not forgetting at all, part of the TV deal covers the salary cap and a increase in the cap as I understand it for all clubs (which is why I did not mention the players salaries) and sponsorship will not cover the shortfall, no matter how good it is in AFL land. To stay competitive in the AFL you need to spend on your football program and the gap between the top and bottom clubs is getting bigger. Take Richmond 51,000 members who contribute only $5m in membership income and they still have to go and ask their supporters to help fund the football department with additional donations.

That is GWS and CGS have to increase football department expenditure to get those kids competitive or risk falling behind further.

The majority of the additional funds from the TV money will be used to fund the set up of the 2 teams for now, which is the strategy. But unless you seriously grow in dollar terms membership and attendance there are going to be a lot of unhappy clubs as the AFL will have to keep filling the shortfall, while trying to keep other clubs going. Considering GCS went backwards in year 2 (despite they made a profit in year 1, not that there is any standard reporting in AFL financial reports such how to treat special AFL funding) and expansion clubs 20 years old needing AFL guarantees or special funding to stay afloat despite on field success.

If I recall correctly your CEO sated when the players asked for a pay rise, there is no more money to go around, this is it, take it or leave it (I assume the FFA is going to do something similar).

The emergence of WSW just puts pressure on future sponsorship, crowd and members even though played in a different time of the year, there is only so much resources in Australia from a corporate and personal level.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/here-we-go-again.986980/

this thread reminds me of this one but with less afl nuts

I'm not sure where you are getting the info that 51,000 in Richmond members is only producing $5 million in membership revenue.

This is Richmond's latest annual report, including audited financial statements.

http://way-cdn220-is-3.se.bptvpd.ngcdn.telstra.com/pd_afltigers0/concisereport2012.pdf

of $37 million in total operating revenue (which I admit, is not huge compared to the very biggest clubs in the AFL), NOte 5 says that $14 million comes from football operations, $19 million comes from sponsorship, and gaming and donations makes up the rest, producing an operating profit of $3 million, which is actually pretty good for a sporting club in Australia.

GWS now on 8,123 memberships, almost 2,000 below last year's figure, with 2 months to go till the start of the season.

http://membership.gwsgiants.com.au/

I wonder what the breakup is. When the CEO of GWS predicted in the press that they would have 17k members in their first year he gave a break up of their Foundation Membership. 40% came from the ACT, 25% came from western Sydney and the other 35% came from all over the place including 6% from Melbourne and 1% from WA. I haven't seen figures for the break up of the 10k last year but then I have to admit that I haven't been looking.

While you are taking note of them why don't you ask them why they are not involved in the grass roots of the game so that they can ensure that they have Victorian players to watch long into the future? Its a shame that a city that prides itself as the sporting capital of the world has left the task for so long to so few. Ah well, its what you expect from voyeurs. Look but don't get involved.

17k was clearly a silly prediction for a debut season with team full of teenagers who were going to get hammered most games.

Last season the ACT contingent made up about one-third of the membership base.

Learn to quote properly when you're changing things from previous posts

Unlike Barkly, who has been banned many times from various forums, I have not.

The hysteria on Big ALF in the lead up to the bid was absolutely pathetic.Still can't believe the lengths that Barkly and 4 or 5 others went to , to trash Australia's bid including contacting the QLOC:oops:
300 anti-Australian WC threads(a few with as many as 700,000 views):oops: :oops:



Edited by girtXc: 29/1/2013 10:13:13 PM

Source: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/afl-clubs-2012-annual-reports.981354/page-3

If the AFL was truly transparent they would introduce a standard reporting format as appears to be a lot of confusion on what is in a AFL club financial report, bit like membership numbers, it appears to be reporting of what you want to hear.

But this thread is not about Richomond or AFL, the point is 11,000 GWS members does not really account for much in dollars. Why do they not breakdown how many members in each category of membership against a dollar figure?, well we all know the reason.

Actual attendances is a more accurate picture of where a club is at.

WSW have 6,300 members and average nearly double that and recently have been attracting around 8,000 more people per game, so I would expect they make a similar amount of money on membership income but a lot more than GWS on game day receipts.

So what would you rather have lots of fuzzy member numbers or actual dollars being generated. This is why most A-League clubs draw higher attendances than they have as members and all AFL clubs do not. I would rather WSW attendance stay at current levels (which will ultimately mean more members) and keep rising than have a great membership headline number and crap crowds or have to split my club into 2 regions just boost those membership numbers.



Edited by justafan: 29/1/2013 10:11:01 PM

What's the QLOC?

My memory of the various debates regarding the WC bid was that people had bizarre notions of what was possible, and I set them straight with a shot of realism.

Also, people appeared to have no understanding about the AFL's long term lease over the MCG, or the fact that Etihad was privately owned and that it had been built 100% with private money, initiated by the AFL using the proceeds from its sale of Waverley, which it too had owned and had built with its own money.

Soccer people wanted something for nothing - and the AFL quite rightly said: you ain't getting something for nothing.

Also, my memory is that I was the only one to correctly predict Australia getting one vote.

I copped a lot of abuse for that.

Which is weird, copping abuse for being correct.

This post alone should be enough to see you banned.You proved what an enemy of football you are right then

Wookie corrected it on the 1st page where he keeps a running tally.

As for the question about memberships, quite clearly, there's a very close correlation between the 7 million who attend AFL games each season and the total membership base of 700,000.

From there, there's also a close correlation between those high numbers, and the high sponsorships AFL clubs rake in and of course the ratings which produce the TV money.

So rest assured - those memberships have plenty of substance to them.

Why? Because I don't know what the QLOC is?

I would bet the 6,300 WSW members generates more revenue and actually generates a profit, unlike the GWS memberships which are so heavily subsidised it's a loss making exercise for the AFL

You don't really believe the marlarky about the GWS memberships do you?? It's total bullshit.

This article (linked) is talking about the the real runaway success for WSW

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/wanderers-success-story-continues-off-the-pitch/story-e6frfg8x-1226564554705

If they're now talking about 8,123 memberships for GWS, where is the proof. That number of memberships would create a story similar to the one above. Even with baby and pet memberships they would be no where near it. The memberships are bogus with the bulk being schoolkids participating in GWS clinics, who in all likelihood will never ever participate in them again.

Double post.

Edited by RobB: 30/1/2013 12:39:16 AM

Football did did not want something for nothing. They wanted to bring the biggest sporting event in the world to these shores. They wanted to give the Australia public something special, they should be praise for trying. While the women's world cup is far bigger than the AFL Grand final, the men's world cup stands alone as the greatest sporting event. Why any sports fan would not the greatest sporting event is beyond me. FEAR I suppose.

Edited by robbos: 30/1/2013 06:41:08 AM