No, that's called Knowledge.

See atheists can be deluded too.

I no longer believe in "god", however at the same time, i'm not so arrogant so as to be sure that I know that there is nothing more then what can be explained by science.

Thats why hardcore athiests annoy me, how can you be so sure that there is nothing more then what science can explain? Science once said that the earth was flat for fuck sake!

Humans simply do not have the knowledge or the mental capacity to comprehend the enormity and fullness of the universe, end of.

Yeah its amazing how some people think their pea brains can comprehend the secrets of the universe.

I'm not an atheist :lol:

Gee aren't you the mysterious one

My mistake.

I clearly misread "Please tell me your life story" as "See atheists can be deluded too."

No you just cant comprehend properly.

for fuck sake you two...

Afro and notorganic all over again

Possibly. I just dislike the assumption that a lack of belief in God means belief in no God. It does not account for people who simply have no beliefs. Its also consequential logic (or lack there of). Lack of belief in something should not mandate belief in another.

Most atheists or most atheists you know? I'd say most atheists I know are getting on with life and observing what is there to observe without making absolutes out of subjective matters.

Also there is no belief in natural forces only observation. A belief in such natural forces would be agreeing without actually understanding principles such as entropy or agreeing that energy is everything without actually knowing that energy cannot be created nor destroyed.

If you are an atheist, it is YOUR BELIEF that there IS NO GOD. That is all there is to it.

From wikipedia: "Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities."

A rejection of belief is not a belief. I don't believe in dragons. Is that a belief? No, it's not. Same thing applies.

I can't believe I had to explain this more than once.

Edited by benelsmore: 18/1/2013 02:08:20 PM

You guys are splitting hairs here.

Me, I'm an atheist, but respect people's right to believe whatever they choose as long as it does not make them turn to proselytising and/or violence to enforce their beliefs on others.

Fellow atheists please note - being rude and disrespectful to other people's beliefs which in no way affect you turns you into the same kind of bigots that you despise in believers.

=d>

I'm with Afro here. If you extend your 'bolded' section, you see that it's a rejection of the belief in gods... Not a rejection of belief full-stop. Atheism is a world view, which in turn is a belief.

To your Dagon point, some may argue it is a belief but I don't particularly want to get into this sort of debate.

Ok, to paraphrase what you're saying:
"I don't believe in god. I don't not believe there is no god"

Fucking listen to yourself :lol:

By pure definition, YOUR BELIEF is that there is no god.

Yeah, in the exact same way as not collecting stamps is a hobby...Fucking christ you're dense.

Essentially you're arguing that the alleged implications are the problem, since you could connect atheism with anything by some varied correlations: communism, humanism, secularism, skepticism, moral relativism, etc. The correlations are incidental and hardly suggest that atheism is anything more than a belief regarding God's existence in a metaphysical sense right?

I disagree, all you're doing is necessitating a two sided argument, belief in God or belief there is no God. Its a typical straw-man made by people with a narrow perception of things. There are people who confuse atheism with people who are out to condemn religion. A very clear difference, but one often misunderstood.

My problem with your "pure definitions" is that Any "atheism" that is not the calculated rejection or doubt of certain god concepts presented to the thinker based on available evidence doesn't seem to be worth speaking of and is considered without much thought as anti-belief. Yet, this is hammered out fairly often, by people like you.

I can understand it means a lack in belief in a higher deity, but a lack in belief in a higher power is a bit of a grey area, because a higher need not necessarily be a conscious entity. It could mean nuclear power, thermonuclear power such as what powers our sun and the stars and I sure they could generate power much higher than anything I could muster.

We shouldn't be compiling dictionaries, we should be building and compiling knowledge.

Also lets not talk about my beliefs Afro before you get even further in over your head. Don't make generalizations if you can help it :lol:

Also just so we're clear i'll say it 5 times:

Lack of belief
Lack of belief
Lack of belief
Lack of belief
Lack of belief

Consider the above phrase in the context of religion, it's not hard. By your definition one must actually believe in a diety in order to reject it. Quite amusing really.

Since you know everything what would you call a person who lacks a belief in anything spiritual or higher than reality?

Edited by benelsmore: 18/1/2013 07:15:19 PM

If you're asked "do you believe in god" you answer "No, I don't believe in god", therefore your belief is that there is no god.

This is still a system of belief.

You're asked if you have a hobby and you say I don't have one. Your hobby is that you don't have a hobby.

Its still a hobby by your reaasoning.

Well no, we're not asking if you believe you have a hobby #-o

You're saying that not believing in god is not a belief. What is it then? If it's not a belief then why do we use the word 'believe'?

No we're not its simple an analogy to show the flaw in your definition. It is also a way of explaining negative reasoning and why its ridiculous.

It is a lack of beliefs afro. Plain and simple.

Atheism, as defined by the Oxford dictionary is a "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods." - it is a belief by name and definition.

Oxford even described a lack of beliefs. What do you not understood about my analogy? You cannot be that dense, seriously.

Replace belief with hobby. Its the same principle and equally ridiculous. I don't see why it's so hard to grasp that there are more than two sides to this coin.

So if I asked you "do you believe there is no god?" you would answer "no". Because you don't have any belief. Therefore one could conclude that you are open to the concept of a god. Thus you are agnostic, not an atheist.

You're making an incorrect assumption. How does answering no mandate me being open to any supernatural concept? Answering no would be a direct answer to your question. It doesn't even remotely mean I am open to any supernatural concept at all. Your question is irrelevant as there are many ways to interpret your question.

... and the answer for that matter.

You're twisting the definition of the word to suit your contention that it's impossible for there to be a fundamentalist atheist, pure and simple.

That's still your belief #-o You have to believe in the concept to agree with the statement. The definition of belief is thus: "an acceptance that something exists or is true".

The statement "there is no god" you accept that this is true. Therefore it is a belief.

:lol: Says the person creating strawman arguments trying to catch me out.

I'm twisting nothing. I'm am simply trying to get your incredibly resistant mind to see more than two possibilities. Belief/non belief are not polar opposites no matter how much you spin it. Did you even read my response. Have you read any responses I have made over the last page?



No you don't :lol: Like I said it's a direct answer to your question. By your definition people believe in science as many scientific concepts are dependent on one another for relevance. Thermodynamics, entropy and gravity come to mind. Calling their acceptance a belief would be staggeringly moronic.



Your pretext assumes too much once again. Why would I make such an awfully subjective statement. I'm not that dense nor that arrogant.

I do not dismiss that there is a God. To do so would be to dismiss without evidence or reasoning that isn't consequential. Thanks for assuming far too much about my beliefs once again Afro, you really do need to stop assuming though :lol: