Probably?

Yes. How did he get his weaponry and power though to form al-Qaeda?

By being a wealthy jihadist.

For the record, OBL didn't mastermind 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed did.

that too, but the Iran contra arms trade gave weapons and training to the mujahideen, and al-Qaeda was a splinter group from that.

My understanding that the Iran Contra, was weapons being given to Iran despite an embargo?

In Operational Cyclone the U.S. gave funding and weapons to Pakistan/ISI who gave it to the Afghan local mujahideen to fight against the Soviets. Then you had foreign Jihadists(like Osama) who came along and set up Al-Q.

It's a double edged sword and unfortunately the U.S. still hasn't learned from, and the war in Syria is now going to keep up the "global jihad" for years to come, just as the Afghan civil war has done.

But, the 5 main attacks by Al-Q, had little to do with them having U.S. arms in Afghanistan. 9/11, USS Cole, The African embassy bombings, Instanbul 2003, used none of these weapons. The enviroment in Afghanistan would have existed for the foreign jihadist groups with or without the U.S.





Edited by iridium1010: 10/8/2014 06:50:35 PM

Al Qaeda developed as a criminal fraternity well before the United States saw fit to fund the Mujahidin. Most of Al Qaeda's funding came from Bin Laden's wealth and commercial interests in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the UAE.

In any case, the vast majority of US funding re the Mudjhadin, went to elements quite distinct from the Taliban.

The Afghan Taliban are a Pakistan creation correct? IK the U.S. are very suspect of the ISI's relations with them.

Partly. Their origins are distinctly Afghani, namely a student movement in Kandahar. But for all intents and purposes, the are a wholly owned subsidiary of the ISI.

How did the US find Osama in Pakistan?

CIA.

by tracking his courier, who they learnt the name of at Gitmo. Even when they launched the operation, I think they said it was 40 percent chance it was him.

Yes, but the connection to western interventionism is still there, no they don't use those weapons anymore, if I'm not mistaken they now get them from Eastern European black markets. You have to start somewhere though right?

And I'm not sure Afghanistan would be the same without the west. We paid the Taliban for their opium to use in our modern medicine and gave them power that way. I guess money got in the way of foresight on that one. (Yes I know the illegal drug trade funded them as well)

Then there's ISIS who have taken military bases containing U.S weapons.

If you want to look really deeply, the Syrian Cival war was partly started through a drought, which if you believe in climate change, it could've been a factor.

I'm not trying to paint the west as evil, just that our interventions kinda make the place worse sometimes.

At no point did anyone pay the Taliban for their opium. The West grows its own opium for medicinal and scientific purposes.

Fair enough, im just saying that the West can't share all the blame.

Some of the Wests greatest allies and where we get a lot of our oil from.

absolutely, I'm just sayin we havnt always helped

Edited by tbitm: 10/8/2014 07:46:47 PM

True.

Hilarious.

After being waterboarded 183 times as well as numerous other "enhanced" techniques in Romania and then Poland you can make your mind up as to how much credence you should give his "confession".

As well as supposedly being responsible for 9/11 he also admitted to masterminding the Richard Reid shoe bombing attempt to blow up an airliner, the Bali nightclub bombing in Indonesia, the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the murder of Daniel Pearl, and various foiled attacks, as well as numerous other crimes.

(Source: Wikipedia.)

Personally I'm slightly skeptical.

You seem to be under the impression that the entirety of evidence consists of a confession. If this is so, shows that you know nothing on the topic.

Not at all. There's plenty of evidence about to suggest he couldn't, even if he wanted to be, involved in some of the crimes he "confessed" to.

Here's just one link. http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1599861,00.html

As a general rule, I place little value on confessions. No value whatsoever on confessions derived from torture. On the limited question of culpability for 9/11, I have little doubt that Mohammad was intimately involved in the planning of the operation. As to Daniel Pearl, and the rest, varies according to the evidence.

You're too vastly superior in intellect to provide your opinion right? :lol:

So you keep saying on my behalf.

ironic (slightly)

Good luck finding more barbaric Australian parents from any walk of life. You'd have to trawl through the seediest prisons and underworld societies to find anything close to this - all brought to you courtesy of islam 2014

Edited by polemides: 11/8/2014 12:42:59 PM

Not at all surprising.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzCAPJDAnQA

Good piece on funding vis a vis ISIS.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n16/patrick-cockburn/isis-consolidates

"Islam 2014 - We are more hardcore than Islam 2013."

If I was waterboarded 183 times I'd confess to assassinating JFK personally.

^^ That 183 times was in one month alone.

Probably admitted he shot Lincoln in the Theatre and personally faked the moon landing.

I was reading about this waterboard caper and they were saying even elite SEAL soldiers in exercises can only hack it for a few seconds.