Mostly just winding you up :lol:
But you were implying that TSF was making excuses for the Catholic Church. IMO he was simply saying that he gets frustrated when all media attention on the issue is directed solely on the Catholic Church as opposed the whole issue.

I'm guessing cos the scouts aren't nearly as widespread or have as much influence on people's lives as the catholic church. In my entire life i've only ever known one person that had done scouts, but i've known hundreds that are catholics.

You can almost guarantee it's happening, there have been literally scores of cases allegedly covered up in the US that are currently before the courts. You can't say "well, less people are involved in Scouts, the victims are less important".

I never said "well, less people are involved in scouts, the victims are less important", so dont put it in quotation marks. What I meant that as the church has a far larger presence in society, their crimes are going to be more widely reported on. (i also suspect that there's been more catholic cases/coverups than scouts ones, but i dont know that for sure.)

Sort of like how Pistorius' murder case is gaining so much more media attention that most others: nothing to do with reeva steenkamp's death being more tragic that other people's, its just that he is a more high profile person. Or if some guy down the street and the prime minister both stole a car, the pm's crime would be reported on, but the other guy's wont. It's just how the media works.

It's sad that notor has pushed his anti-religion, I'm right you're all wrong, reason is great if you agree with me, wankdom on us so much that this is our first thought when it's a topic on fourfourtwo.

I'm not entirely sure how pointing to the second murderer can be construed as an excuse for the first.

Something like this?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-24/scouts-refer-sex-abuse-case-to-royal-commission/4483034

The Catholic Church has spent decades covering up potentially 1000's of cases, while hiding behind god. There has likely never been over 100,000 scouts in total throughout it's history, the Catholic Church has 650,000 children in it's schools alone, and 5.5 million who identify as Catholic according to the last census.

Its' disgusting that even one child is a sex abuse victim... let alone 100s

That I may be, but at least I've never entered a young child.

I was saying this.

If all Catholics are paedos, then make some arrests because you are saving the children. Why not label all muslims are terrorists too.

These people do not represent their faiths. They are paedos and terrorists. Don't link them to a faith they know nothing about.

Deflection.

Elaborate.

Violence against Aboriginal women 80 times worse

BY CANDACE SUTTON
news.com.au
June 10, 2013 11:32AM
Aboriginal women 80 times more likely to be hospitalised for assault.

DO you want the shocking truth?

There's a place in the world where dreadful violence is regularly inflicted upon women - rape, terrifying assault and murder.

In this place, women of a certain ethnic group are 80 times more likely to be hospitalised for assault and injury.

Many of the assaults are perpetrated by the women's husbands or partners and include being raped with wooden or metal objects, or being murdered by being repeatedly punched and struck with a saucepan, stones, a wheel rim and a wheel brace.

Or there was the case of the man who used a hose to whip his 32-year-old wife, stomping on her abdomen and dragging her naked body over rough ground, before raping her, and then bashing her with either a stick or metal pole, causing severe internal injuries, before finishing her off with a rock.

In this place, up to 20 people live in some houses and children are stressed out and neglected.

In remote areas, up to 65 per cent of children attend school for fewer than three days a week and up to 60 per cent of them fail the national early developmental index which measures a child's ability to cope with starting school.

Apart from the outrageously high rates of violence, unemployment is rife, and thousands of people are battling alcohol and gambling abuse.

Australians who were shocked over the last few months by violent attacks on women in India should be alarmed by this.

This place is in our backyard.

It is one-third the size of India, and has .0002 of India's population.

It is Central Australia, and in particular the Northern Territory.

"There is a tri-state area in the middle of Australia which is a Bermuda triangle for domestic violence against Aboriginal women," said South Australian university lecturer and anthropologist, Professor Peter Sutton.

"People don't want to know, but how about women being raped by a burning fire stick or by a star picket?

"After the incidents in India I had a stream of emails from people wanting something done about it, but there's no petitions hitting my in-tray about what goes on in Central Australia and has done so for a very long time."

"The society where this is going on is very different from the middle-class Aboriginal people that many people know.

"These are hair trigger communities where people fly into a rage in a second.

"People are under the influence of alcohol and there are beatings and stabbings.

"Resorting to physical violence is the norm."

Dr Howard Bath, the Northern Territory's Children's Commissioner said the most recent statistics from the NT's five major government hospitals showed that in 2010 the number of non-indigenous females hospitalised for assault was 0.3 for every thousand women in the population.

The rate for indigenous females was 24.1 per thousand, or 80 times the rate.

"In numbers, that was 27 non-indigenous females being admitted, compared with 842 indigenous women being treated for assault.

"What we are looking at is a disastrous situation in terms of the risk of violence to indigenous women.

"These numbers are mind boggling. The rate of abuse of these women is enormously high and children are being exposed to this, resulting in very, very high rates of child neglect."

Aboriginal men and to a lesser extent Aboriginal women and non-indigenous men were responsible for violence against Aboriginal women.

Dr Bath blamed alcohol and drug abuse, overcrowding and "consistent unemployment".

"Alcohol is the worst factor by a country mile," he said.

"Between 60 and 70 per cent of violence is directly related to alcohol.

"The facts are generally known, but it's a delicate area.

"Most of the people who are familiar with the details don't want to put a set of shameful allegations against the Aboriginal community and in particular the menfolk."

Dr Bath agreed Australians seemed more sympathetic with cases of violence in other countries than in their own country.

"Where is the outrage?" he said.

"I think if it's close to home, it's harder to look at.

"People aren't comfortable with what is happening to women in the Northern Territory.

"And it's having devastating developmental impacts on children.

"The figures for children from very remote areas of the territory very high rates of developmental skills and school attendance rates of 65 per cent attending less than three days a week.

"That is outrageous. It's disastrous".

Northern Territory MP Bess Price said the Aboriginal and white communities had long known about the violence and done nothing.

She had been "routinely attacked", called "a liar" and "obscenely insulted on the internet" - in particular by people with left-wing political views - for raising the issue.

She told the NT Parliament last month that two of her relatives who were "young mothers" were killed in Alice Springs this year.

"One was injured mortally in the public, in front of several families," Ms Price said.

"Nobody acted to protect her.

"Dozens of my female relatives have been killed this way. Convictions usually lead to light sentences.

"I was told by a senior lawyer that no jury in Alice Springs will convict an Aboriginal person for murder if the victim is also Aboriginal and he or she is only stabbed once.

"We all have done nothing effective to stop this from happening. It has been going on for decades.

"Why hasn't there been the same outrage over the continuing killing of our women and abuse and neglect of our kids?

If these women victims were white, we would hear very loud outrage from feminists.

If their killers had been white, we would hear outrage from the Indigenous activists.

Why is there such a deafening silence when both victim and perpetrator are black?

"I believe that we can blame the politics of the progressive left and its comfortably middle class urban Indigenous supporters."

###



Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/violence-against-aboriginal-women-80-times-worse/story-e6frfkp9-1226661209335#ixzz2Vmubmk9S

So you're sayign in theory there should be one report mentioning the Scouts for every ~550 reports about the Catholic Church?

Also, FWIW the Scouts have often been affiliated with the Catholic Church, and were founded by a man who throughout his life had many questions about his sexuality and penchant for young men raised. Not that you hear hoof beats and think Zebras, but there's a correlation there.

Child abuse is not an exclusive Catholic Church problem, it is a society problem.....schools, orphanages, family homes, workplace, social clubs, sport clubs and yes religious orders including the Catholic Church are but some of the places where horrific acts of Child abuse have occurred and they should all be held to account. No doubt the actions of the Catholic Church have been particularly disturbing and they should be held accountable for their actions....but their not alone in their shame.

Yes, but the problem here is that Notor has specifically said that by talking about other youth organisations with a history of child abuse you are excusing what the Catholic Church has done.

An excuse abrogates responsibility, it is a justification or a defence to a particular offence. For example, self-defence excuses an assault. Working by analogy, what Notor claims is that by accusing a different person of a separate murder, you are excusing or justifying a totally separate murder. This would be ridiculous, because the second crime, even if it's the same offence like murder or child abuse, is an entirely different crime with a different victim.

Nobody here is justifying the actions of the Catholic Church. To suggest that the allegation that other organisations are involved in child abuse, or may be involved, or even have an opportunity to be involved in light of their responsibilities, justifies the actions of the Catholic Church takes some literary gymnastics and it does not follow.

I think you're either misunderstanding, or characterising what I am saying.

It's a bit like saying "Yeah, Hitler is bad... but he's not the only one that has committed Genocide. Hitler might have killed 6 million Jews, but look at the Turks - they killed at least 600,000 Armenians!"

You are saying that accusing the Turks of a genocide excuses Hitler's genocide.

An excuse abrogates responsibility. It's not happening.

Have to stick up for Joffa on this one. Not to sound like a goody two-shoes, but why can't you guys just take each others' word when it comes to your motives? If someone says they aren't making excuses and think what the Roman Catholic Church did was wrong but want to talk about the wider social problem, why do you have to assign motives that say otherwise? Your concern is right, we don't want to somehow whitewash the RCC problem away and there may be an unintentional deflecting of guilt if we talk about all the instances of abuse, but Joffa and others have said several times that their intent is not to excuse the RCC so why assume otherwise?

The question then becomes which is more important? Examining wider sex abuse in all society with the potential unintended consequence that the RCC example doesn't seem so bad OR just exploring the RCC case so that they are appropriately punished whilst letting the countless other examples and societal problems go unchecked?

Let notorganic continue his illogical tirade of hate against the church. It's hilarious.

I wasn't inferring or correlating anything, simply responding to the deflection about other groups (ie the Scouts) covering up things as well.

Note: Another group covering up sex abuse doesn't make the paedophile priests cover ups any less disgraceful.

All crimes should be considered equally heinous and given equal air time.

:lol:

Now THAT'S hilarious.

Looking forward to seeing your last bout of tax return fraud appearing on the nightly news alongside Syria's use of chemical weapons on its own people.

That's not what I meant and you know it you twat.

And what the hell is with you accusing me of committing crimes with absolutely no evidence?

Edited by afromanGT: 11/6/2013 08:45:53 PM

So you admit to cheating on your tax return!

Nice edit.

Edited by Notorganic: 11/6/2013 08:46:34 PM

No, but Syrian war crimes don't excuse tax fraud either.

No, they don't... And incessant mention of tax fraud when the far bigger issue that needs immediate attention and resources is Syrian war crimes is a huge disservice to the people of Syria.

All talking about Syria does is draw a curtain over the lunacy that is the amount of jaywalking in our towns and cities. :x

That's right: nobody is excusing anything. Frankly anything after that is conjecture if the catholic church's responsibility isn't being diminished by the possibility of a second crime by a second organisation.

Since I obviously need to reiterate this for notorganic's puerile mind:

All of these child molestation accusations are equally abhorrent aberrations should be uniformly investigated. They are as heinous as each other and should be equally attended to by the powers that be, regardless of the organisation accused of perpetrating them.