I think he meant that it's always either Real or Barca that wins the title, every single season.

Hopefully Athletico can go all the way this season. Most exciting season in years! Only 1 point between all three sides after the game today.

That's true, and I hope Ath Madrid wins it too, but for a long time in EPL is also a two horse race, this season being the exception rather than the rule and everyone talk about how competitive the league is, yet the last time I can remember a 3 horse race in the Premier League was 10 years ago.

The English fans complain about the rich owners of Chelsea and Man City, but he truth is, without those two the EPL would be extremely uncompetitive and fall into a pattern of a couple of teams dominating the league that's emerging around Europe. If it weren't for sugardaddies then nobody in England can compete with United in terms of money spending which is what was happening in the 90s.

Edited by metalfly: 24/3/2014 10:05:50 AM

The other teams do well in Europe because that's their only realistic shot at silverware with the Madrid/Barca duopoly. Hopefully Atletico can win the title this year and give them something new to think about.

Whether or not the teams do well in the UCL isn't the point. It's always the same teams.

The point is that there is a duopoly (as Afro has said) with Athletico performing well and the odd shock. Barca and Real get far more money from TV so the gap between them and the rest is growing. It's boring.

There is a duopoly yes, and that has been further cemented with the incredible amount of money in the game in recent years, but it's not exactly fair to say it's the "same teams" that gets in Europe. In fact, look at how EPL had the same top 4 year after year whereas Malaga made it to the quarterfinals of CL last year and playing some scintillating football along the way.

In Europa League you have Seville and Betis, and last year was Levante and Athletico Madrid. While I fully take the point that it's a league that has been dominated by the big two since the beginning, but at the same time people tend to underestimate the quality of Spanish teams just because they regularly gets pummeled by Real and Barca.

At the end of the day, if you throw in midtable EPL teams like Newcastle, Southampton, West Ham, Swansea etc. into La Liga that's hardly going to make it any more competitive.

Edited by metalfly: 24/3/2014 10:37:39 AM

These mid-table teams in La Liga are largely very average. Ok, so occasionally teams like Soiedad or Valencia cause an upset but the reality is that the only reason these teams are competitive in European competition is because that's their only realistic shot at Silverware.

Lol the mid-table teams in EPL are pretty average also, and I don't know what silverware Spurs were hoping to challenge back home this year but it certainly didn't help them in Europe, despite having a larger budget than everyone.

An hour ago you were applauding Atletico for making the Ro32 and Levante for making the Ro16 in last season's Europa League.

Now you're deriding Spurs for making the Ro16 this year?

I wasn't applauding them for making the round of 32, in the context of what I was saying it was two different teams to this year's candidates, in response to the comment "it's the same team every year".

In terms of applauding teams, over the last 10 years in Europa League/UEFA Cup, 5 of them have been won by 3 different La Liga teams, England won one with Chelsea, so I don't see where this notion of England having better midtable teams comes from. (Well not exactly mid-table, but teams that's below the top tier clubs)

As for la Liga teams doing better because "it's the only silverware they can challenge", in recent years England teams that qualified for Europa leagues include Spurs, Liverpool, Newcastle, Villa, Birmingham, Swansea, Wigan, Stoke etc. None of them fared well and none of them were challenging for silverware back home the season they are in Europe.

Edited by metalfly: 24/3/2014 11:48:32 AM

Just noticed that Athletico have gone top of the table on equal points but a lesser goal difference, is La Liga a bit different in that aspect?

Yeah, La Liga is different to say the EPL or A-League. When they're equal on points on the table, it's not total goal difference that comes into account, but the head to head goal difference from the matches that the two sides have played against each other.

When teams are on equal points they look at the head to head records of the teams, Athletico got the better of Madrid this season.

There's no 'h' in Atletico, guys.


In La Liga 2 ECL spots are already guaranteed to Barca and Madrid, so teams are basically competing for 2 ECL spots, where as in the EPL there are 4 spots genuinely up for grabs each season for 6-7 sides. Placing in the league and being competitive in the league is a higher priority than Europa League competition for English sides. They enter the season with very different priorities.

Many of your aforementioned EPL sides found themselves in relegation battles when they were in the Europa League too. Staying up is more important and worth significantly more money than the Europa League. The amount of money EPL teams get for tv rights is significantly more than what La Liga teams get due to the duopoly, so Europa League success is also more rewarding for those sides.

Edited by afromanGT: 24/3/2014 01:05:37 PM

Dude... are you seriously going along the line of "2 CL spots are up for grabs?" How many times have United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal finished top 4 in the last 10 years? Before Abramavic came in, it was United and Arsenal that's almost assured of a spot in the top 4 year after year.

The fact that in England only 6-7 teams with a realistic chance of finishing top 4 actually goes against the argument that EPL is more competitive. Look at how many La Liga teams have a shot at CL over the years and there's way more.

Is the title race a duopoly for large amount of time in La Liga? Yes definitely, but how many times is it more than a 2 horse race in England for the title? Do teams tend to crumble against the big two in Spain? Yes they do. But that happens in EPL also.

Just for this season's sake, if you swapped Man City and Chelsea with Real Madrid and Barcelona, I think it'll be those two Spanish giants running away with the EPL with maybe Liverpool pushing them close (which Atletico is doing in Spain).

Edited by metalfly: 24/3/2014 01:40:32 PM

At the start of the season United, City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Everton and Spurs were all aiming for a top 4 finish.
At the start of the season Atletico, Madrid and Barca were aiming for a top 4 finish.

Another reason why there's a high turnover of ECL qualifiers in La Liga is because clubs simply can't afford to remain competitive because of how Madrid and Barca have cornered the market. Even after qualifying for Europe Valencia, Malaga, Rayo, Villarreal, Levante, Deportivo, Athletic and Osasuna have all been in financial trouble.

I think there's multiple facet to this whole argument, we watch EPL mostly in the English speaking communities, the La Liga games is not as available and most of the commentaries in the smaller games are in Spanish so obviously alot less appealing to English speaking fans. When most people watch La Liga it's inevitably a game involving either Barcelona or Real Madrid, there are English commentary and the game are much more accessible.

When teams in Spain go up against those big two, there's definitely this lack of confidence, I don't think it's that they're less committed or less competitive, but they lack the belief that they can go there and win since players playing in lesser teams grew up watching the big two winning year after year. Then by contrast, if you are playing for Real or Barca then you have that confidence to go into every game expecting to win. At the top level, you only needs that bit less confidence on one side and that bit extra belief on the other then you have a very one sided game, especially when the level of resources that's at the disposal of the big two is taken into consideration. Then for people who only watches the Real and Barca games it's quite easy to think, man these teams look crap, how are they even in the same league?

However if you watch a La Liga game that's between two mid or lower table teams in La Liga, it's a completely different story. I remember a game a couple of weeks ago between Getafe and Grenada that finished 3-3, was very entertaining game with some quality football on display.

Of course you get quite a lot of boring ones too in La Liga, but that's no more than the boring games you get in EPL on a regular basis. I guess I'm in agreement that at the very top La Liga is quite uncompetitive (between Real and Barca they won 54 out of 84 La Liga titles). But I completely disagree with the notion that La Liga is full of shit teams and that's why it's uncompetitive, which I do hear all the time.



Edited by metalfly: 24/3/2014 02:44:35 PM

That's the truth of it though. Those teams struggle to retain their best players because they're forced to sell them in order to balance the books (thanks to the duopoly). This is why many Spanish players are plying their trade overseas and they have more overseas based players representing the NT than the likes of England or Italy. It's also why the teams there struggle to remain competitive, why there's such a high turn over for teams competing from 3rd-7th.

Edited by afromanGT: 24/3/2014 03:29:13 PM

At the half way point in La Liga there were three teams in contention. In the EPL there were 9 :lol:

Ok everything you have said also applies to the small teams in EPL, now English players tend to stay within England, but really they should be looking overseas for opportunities also, I mean why is someone like Adam Johnson or Steven Caulker playing for relegation battlers when they could move to Germany or France and play for a team that have much higher aspirations.

Like I said, La Liga teams are the most successful in Europa League in recent years, when they face their English counterparts they are more than a match, and if you actually watch them they play quality football, so the only reason that they're all shit is because they don't challenge for the league title, by that logic the vast majority of the EPL are also crap (and there are indeed some very shit teams).

Lol you're using this season as a general rule for EPL, which is incorrect, EPL is incredibly open this year, due to a number of reasons. But every year before it's way less competitive, last year, 1 horse race for the title and 2 teams battling for number 4. Season before, 2 horse race for the title and 2 teams battled for top 4. Season before, same thing. So this season being the exception rather than the rule, I remember last season people talking about how uncompetitive the Premier League was since the title race was over by February.

..... and the year before? Went to injury time on the final day.

What about points totals. In the last 5 years how many times has a PL club achieved 100 points?

Year before went to injury time on the final day between TWO teams lol, this year you can say La Liga's title race is even closer than EPL's.

I have never argued against the fact that Barca and Real dominant the league, but La Liga teams are not shit. Every year in England there's usually only 2 teams who will challenge for the title, you put the remaining 18 EPL teams into a league with Real and Barca chances are they will get over 100 points also. It's a testament to how strong Real and Barca is but shouldn't be used to say La Liga teams are weak. When they play against English teams they certainly don't look inferior.

Edited by metalfly: 24/3/2014 04:42:44 PM

What about goal differences? Real and Barca smash every team weekly. The top teams in England still have to fight for their wins.

The lopsided TV deal for Real and Barca makes it a two horse race every year. In the EPL there have been 4 title contenders this year and still are!

Real and Barca would smash every EPL team weekly too.

Firstly, I never said Real and Barca don't dominant La Liga, my point was that just because they smash everyone doesn't mean everyone there is shit, they're just that good no matter where they are.

Secondly, in EPL there have been 4 title contenders THIS YEAR, it is not like that every season. Plus this season the La Liga title race is even closer than EPL's. Usually there are only 2 title contenders every year whether you are in La Liga or EPL.



Edited by metalfly: 24/3/2014 11:40:29 PM

Well they pay outrageous prices for the best players. Aren't those twats Barca being investigated for tax evasion over Neymar?

Not to mention much like Bayern they get the pick of the litter with star players from all the other teams.

One, this happens in the Premiership as much as La Liga and Bundesliga.

Two, none of these are reasons to say the rest of La Liga is shit, there's a reason why they're the top ranked UEFA League for 5 years running now and it's not due to Barca and Real.

Edited by metalfly: 25/3/2014 10:48:56 AM

I do hope Cleverley can put in a good performance, the stock he gets is OTT.

2 changes for Arsenal, Flamini and Vermaelan in for Kos and Poldi. Michu starts and will inevitably score.

Edited by jlm8695: 26/3/2014 06:59:49 AM

Wow city score in the first 45 seconds