Most muslims in muslim countries support what he stood for anyway, just not the way he went about it (although some do believe it is justified).

Edited by 433: 31/12/2014 01:26:15 AM

Please elaborate of for those of us who obviously misunderstand.

I suppose what I mean is that they should publicly explain it for their own sake as much as for the benefit of the public. They aren't obliged to, but they're shooting themselves in the foot if they don't.

the thing is if they do disown them , the print media will largely ignore them . The bigots will still be suspicious of them by saying you may say that but you're like the rest of them . Ie andrew bolt , miranda devine and the majority of news ltd opinion writers . When was the last time we heard one of them ask say a Christian to disown a arbotion clinic bomber or the church?

When is the last time that someone pushing this argument hasn't mentioned Christians bombing abortion clinics?

Im a card carrying catholic and when something like the bombings or protestors or paedophile priests come about I dont get asked by any media to disown them . Or by anyone for that matter . My is muslim and the amount of bull crap she has to put up with because of a loony few pisses me off . Why does she have to put up with accusations shes a terrorist and or sympathetic to their cause??

really????? i think it has been displayed and implied for decades that most christians of any denomination are against any of these abhorent acts......the difference here is that how many priests go out and preach doing or supporting them???? VS imams and clerics calling for "jihad" or similar....i think this is why the population is looking for these people to distance themselves from the extremists..........

Jihad is a bit of a furphy of a word because it has such a broad possible application from personal internal resolve to overcome adversity to walking to a crowded marketplace with a bomb strapped to your chest and everything else within that spectrum.

Priests and other Christian religious figures often stay silent or a perform mental backflips of apologia for people doing insane and oppressive things in the name of Jesus.

The players and situations are different, but the cognitive dissonance are the same.

I difference is that what terrorists are trying to bring (implementation of Sharia and the horrors it brings with it) are supported by the majority of Muslims in Muslim country's, and a substantial amount of Muslims in non-Muslim countries. Just have a read of this.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Been there. Done That. Happened many a times. If media, people refuse to acknowledge it, only so much we can do.



Muslims in a non-muslim country can not want full implementation of Shariah Law. It would be contravening Shariah Law if they did. Shariah Law states to follow the law of the land in which you live. Shariah Law can only be adopted in Islamic states. Australia is not one, hence can not be adopted.

Simple matter is, if you make people feel like criminals, they will behave like them. You can't deny that western governments have criminalised the arab world and middle east. Islam has been targeted. Things like that will lead to unrest. I do not justify or condone the actions, but we need greater dialogue and effort from both sides.

That's all well and good, but if people are supporting Sharia regardless of this it doesn't make much of a difference does it?



Pretty sure its the other way around.



You're making excuses for this. Your placing the blame on the West for being attacked. By claiming (without any evidence whatsoever) that the West has "criminalised" (whatever that means) the arab world, you are excusing the actions of these terrorists, because you're say the West had it coming.

We don't need dialogue from both sides; one side ended that when they decided to murder innocent Australians.

Edit: Also zimbos, could you care to comment on the other statistics in the page I've linked? Like their views on women, homosexuals, leaving Islam and capital punishment?


Edited by 433: 6/1/2015 01:54:58 AM

If people want Shariah, they have no basis, particularly in a non islamic country. They can go live elsewhere. They know this and have been told this. Unfortunately you cant force a person who has been afforded the right to live in a country to leave, particularly if they are born there.



Tell that to the minority communities who were kinda spat in the face by the queensland police commissioner at two meetings about community engagement and anti-terror laws in the middle of last year.



Another side also decided that when they continually invaded nations that they had no right to.

'We don't negotiate with terrorists'. It's the kind of stuff you say when you really not interested in creating any sort of peace or harmony. If you oppress a people long enough, they will retaliate. Palestine is the biggest evidence for discrimination and oppression of a nation where you treat people like criminals. But don't get me in to it.

I never excuse any actions. Read my post. I said i do not condone any actions of violence.

Well if you close off dialogue or any thought of actually trying to do something positive, you effectively will never stop all that you complain about.

What stats? I haven't really been following this thread to be honest.

You can argue all you want that it's not in accordance with the Quran and they're not "true" Muslims or whatever, but the fact remains that overwhelming numbers of Muslims do want Sharia - both in their own countries and in countries where Islam is not dominant. It couldn't care less if they were following the Quran or not and how "true" a Muslim they are.





"Kinda spat in the face"..? What kind of hyperbolic trash is that? What was said at the meetings to make the poor Muslim community feel so victimised?



So you are making excuses for this man. You're claiming we're oppressing him or whatever, and he's just retaliating in accordance to this. Hence you are justifying his actions because apparently we are not doing enough?.



What? Saying that we don't negotiate with terrorists isn't "closing off dialogue"... it's not letting the terrorists dictate our policy. It's in no way comparable to "closing off dialogue" with the wider Muslim community.



In here: http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Well then. Not much more I can say really. You firmly believe that we as Muslims are actively trying to overthrow the current system and institute Shariah Law. I can understand, to some extent, calls for it in Muslim countries. There is clearly nothing I can say which would make you feel any different. You have your mind all made up.



Hahaha. Your obvious sarcastic tones speaks volumes.

One example. The Somali community said that for 6 months they have been trying to create dialogue with the police because there are some underlying issues with the way people in their community have been handled and it is leading to unrest amongst its people. Their liaison officer has been unhelpful and has missed many planned meetings to address the issues. They came to the meeting to the speak to the commissioner to engage this dialogue so that they could address the issues and put to bed any potential for unrest. The commissioner said, "I think the best way forward is for your community to just speak to its liaison officer and hopefully things will improve."





I never made any excuses for this man. Never once have i defended him. Nothing can justify this guys actions.

I was talking on a different level.



Its all just rhetoric and words used to make it seem like we better than them or that we are actually trying to do more than them. Like Malcolm X said, "if we are not careful, the media will have us hating those being oppressed and loving those doing the oppressing."

(Let it be known that i am not only referring to Muslims as oppressed, I am talking about anyone being oppressed as in a wider oppressed population regardless of race, religion etc etc)



Some of those stats are actually in accordance with what you would call western moral ethics and codes. A lot you will actually find have more to do with cultural upbringings rather than religion.

A small minority are trying to implement Sharia, but a very small one at that (talking less than 1%). What I'm saying is that the majority of Muslims do support the rules and practises of Sharia, and would prefer to live in a society governed by these laws. That's all.



Source?





Every single post you make you refer to the Wests actions and say "well, what did you expect? You knew this was going to happen". You're blaming the West for the man's attacks and absolving him of all responsibility and culpability of his actions.



MOre than terrorists, of course we are doing more than them. You've completely ignored my point - saying "we don't negotiate with terrorists" is not the same as "we don't want talk with Muslims".

And you've chucked in an barely relevant quote for good measure.



And what do you think drives Islamic/Muslim culture?

Hint: it's in the name.

Um. No actually we don't. Theres a misconception. There are certain issues in Islam that we would yes, like to be dealt with under shariah in certain circumstances such as marriage or divorce. Does not mean we would prefer to. Many misunderstand Shariah in its entirety. Like The Australian newspaper, who branded my brother an Islamist because of his journal published article on Divorce law in Islam and its case for implementation in Australia in relation to the Muslim society.



I sat ten feet away from the commissioner.




I never absolve him of culpability. If you going to jump to conclusions become a bit more imaginative. Say something like, "You said this man is a god and he once flew to the moon and had tea with some aliens and they told him to do this."

I was merely stating that you argue that Islam and the arab world need to be taught a lesson. Yet when you look at a lot the arab world, they are bombed left right and centre on a daily basis and cant live a free life. How then can you expect people who are oppressed (not man haron monis) to sit back and take it?




Yeah, but its more like, "we only want to talk to muslims we pick and choose, so we will talk to that saudi prince who can offer us oil."

I think its quite an apt quote. Its evidence is in this thread.




slim? a mic? us?

Culture on a broad scale by those who follow Islam can not be defined as Islamic culture. Like taking all the Christianity together and making it one. Afghani muslims do a dance at their weddings that Gujarati Indian muslims dont. Its not an Islamic thing, its culture of the land thing.

If Muslims feel so victimised and oppressed in Australia why don't they move back to countries where their culture is the norm?

Because being victimised in paradise is better than living in a shithole.
If Australians are making other Australians feel victimised, then that's a massive cultural problem.

Ummmm....do you actually read anything i say. I never said they feel victimised or oppressed IN Australia. I was saying that people feel western government unjustly and illegally oppress and occupy other countries, and then victimise their religion.

Fuck Islam. See the shit in that just happened in Paris?

Religon Of Peace.

what about people who like to be victims and love the victim mentality that they live their life living this mantra???

Feminists?

one of many minority groups who fit the bill;)

heard there is a heightened threat in Sydney again today 20/01

The cynic in me says all this does is promote fear among the Great Unwashed.

been told to stay away from opera house, airport and major sites....just telling what i hear

Live your life as you normally do.

Egg-f*cking-zactly.



1.6 billion Muslims in the world.
0.5 million Muslims in Australia.

If Islam was the problem then the whole world would be burning. A very very small number of arseholes is the problem, many of them happen to be Muslims who don't get the point of their own religion.

How many chain emails do you forward a day?