It's not a contradiction. You just don't understand the significance of legal/constitutional mechanisms which act to check and balance power even though such checks and balances will hopefully never be required.

Put simply, the Queen is useful to precisely the very limited extent that she needs to be. Any more useful and it would mean she has too much power. Any less and there's inadequate checking and balancing of power.

At least by my high standards and the high standards of persons, with whom I've discussed this a lot, who are better-versed in constitutional law than me (and probably you, too).

It's a subtle distinction that most aren't perspicacious enough to grasp.

Some of the people I know working in the UK are EU nationals doing science research. Without funding, research doesn't happen, the funding will go to other EU member states and so will the talent. Of course the UK will have to fund some themselves but it's unlikely to be at the same levels.

LOL.

Presenting THE QUEEN OF AUSTRALIA. The GOLDILOCKS of the World's monarchs.

Fucking heard it all now.

(You simply do not see 'perspicacious' used enough these days. How very verbose and loquacious of you.)

This is what Dave was shooting for.

The out vote was not supposed to happen. And I still can't quite believe that it has happened.

Cameron was sick and tired of the Eurosceptics (within his party) whinging and wanted, with reason, a better deal with the EU. He thought that no way would the nation vote in favour of Brexit. But he thought if he tailored the vote enough, it would be possible to make it reasonably close. A referendum in with the correct result would have killed two birds with one stone. It would have shut up the Eurosceptics and he would then have the grounds to go to Brussels and say "right, we want a better deal, no more benefits for EU immigrants, blah blah blah".

They genuinely believed the remain campaign was so strong that they actually made the terms of the referendum favour the Brexit in certain ways to make back some ground; e.g. Commonwealth citizens with permanent residency (expected broadly to favour Brexit) were allowed to vote.

But the whole thing backfired massively for Cameron.

And it will cost him his political legacy.

Edited by quickflick: 25/6/2016 08:13:01 PM

It was the right word to use. It conveyed the intended meaning in one word. When I get lazy, I use too many words as you probably figured out ;)

So don't complain when I deliberately use fewer words.

You fail to grasp that this is not a legal argument.

You could wheel out 10 barristers and 12 constitutional wigs and it would make nought difference.

It's about impressions, it's about symbols, it's about pride.

It's the vibe, it's mabo.

You'll never understand.

Do you believe that anyone that disagrees with you has Anti intellectual traits?

Quite a condescending term to use..don't you think?

you know not everyone can be an intellect perhaps like yourself...people have to scrap for a living, ie do a trade or drive a truck just to make ends meet.

Edited by Socawho: 25/6/2016 08:41:50 PM

Even though I don't agree with your view, I respect your right to have it and to voice it. I believe scott21 has a similar view and I respect it, even if I disagree with it. Correct me if, I'm wrong, scott21 because I'd hate to misrepresent your views.

What I found a bit nauseous, Toughlove, was the way you articulated it and that's why I took the mickey.

How do I feel about immigration into Sweden?

I don't have a problem with it. Most of my Swedish friends don't have a problem with it. It may get to a point when immigration becomes disproportionate to the point that it stretches infrastructure and government services too far (some say it has done).

Most of my friends do not. They're immensely proud of Sweden's stance on immigration.

My friends are very welcoming of people of all backgrounds. I work with Swedes who are ethnically Swedish. Also some Swedes whose parents are from the Middle-East and elsewhere and some who have become naturalised. They genuinely get on really well.

The non-ethnically Swedish ones are just as Swedish (at least the ones I know). They have the same jokes and so on. They tap into the culture of their parents too (although not in all cases).

One of my best mates is from a smaller town in which there's a huge immigrant influence. He's ethnically Swedish but feels a huge affinity with Swedes whose background is Middle-Eastern. He has known it his whole life.

We have Swedish rappers who are ethnically non-Swedish who dominate Swedish music/club culture. I don't regard this as a bad thing.

Sweden has evolved. Swedish culture exists and is strong as it has been (within Sweden for a long time). But it has grown to include others.

The legal aspect of this is huge.

We have a constitution. Our law is based on Common Law.

That's more important than you not feeling upset because you don't understand the legal/constitutional framework and you're not a fan of some woman whose great- great-great-grandmother just happened to be German.

Dad grew up in Scotland most of his child hood but was born in Canada, even he was surprised to see Scotland, the majority voted against it even though they want their Independence.

Edited by MrBrisbane: 25/6/2016 08:39:34 PM

And inbred. Don't forget inbred.

EU says they want the exit negotiations to take no more than 2 years and that there will be no renegotiation.

It was interesting to see people who supported leave come out after it's all done and say well of course there will still be free movement of labour, that won't change

The legal aspect isn't huge at all. You are way overplaying it. Under the minimalist model put forward at the referendum most of the changes to could be easily achieved using the find/replace function from microsoft word 1997.

Hahaha. Half the people originating from small European towns are inbred.

I must congratulate you because like a standard politician that's been briefed that just because you are asked a question you don't have to answer that question you've gone way off on a tangent speaking about things I never asked about.

I never asked you if you were in favour of immigration into Sweden.

The question was how would you feel if in a very short space of time, say 5 years, 5 million African refugees and immigrants arrived in Sweden en masse. Irrevocably changing the face of the country literally and figuratively.

My wife is a "brown skinned"

And this is the least unpalatable of the ideas put forwards.

Still not good enough, though.

Constitutionally unstable for various reasons. The PM would be able to act unilaterally in sacking the G-G. This would be removing a crucial check and balance. It means that the PM suddenly has too much power.

It also means that the PM and G-G can sack each other without a third party balancing them out.

Plus, as pointed out before, many British legal documents have been inherited by the Australian states and territories. Our legal system is greatly based on Common Law.

This makes being a republic problematic because it suddenly renders big parts of our legal/constitutional framework documents emanating from an alien power. There needs to be some link to stabilise it.

Must be such a nightmare for all those other countries that managed to do it.

I guess as Australians we should just accept that we're not, and never will be, clever enough to manage such a transition.

I didn't respond to it because it's a ludicrous proposition.

You're the only one proposing such an absurd hypothetical.

If you read carefully, you'll find I said



The implication is that at the ridiculous level you've suggested it would be too much.

But you're the only one I know who is suggesting 5 million more turn up in Sweden.

And that's not because they're African that it would be a problem. Same drama if they come from Canada. Just too many to handle

The ones who are bright realise this; NZ and Canada.

The United States had to redesign their entire constitutional and legal framework because they had a War of Indepedence. Admirable though aspects of it are, it is a nightmare.

So the trend is that the most stable countries from the British Empire remain Commonwealth Realms.

Why don't NZers and Canadians tend to have the same sense of tall poppy syndrome that you do, my friend?

Now you really sound like a politician. 'Well I'm not going to comment on hypotheticals Leigh.'

Yes it's a hypothetical but you were the one challenging me when I said 'If I visit Switzerland or Norway I want to visit a country that looks like Switzerland or Norway not Morocco, Syria or the Sudan. '

'Diddums' was the term used I believe.

So hypothetically, as an intellectual exercise, and pretending, as I've already explained that, 'they're fully funded and there's no nett impost on the economy or society in general'.

HYPOTHETICALLY would you be happy with the face of Sweden being irrevocably changed both literally and figuratively if 5 million fully funded African refugees and immigrants arrived en masse in Sweden over a period of 5 years?

Did you not see the recent flag change vote in NZ? Are those 40% that wanted a change delusional traitors or people that want their own symbol that represents them?

Just because something is hard is not a reason not to do it.

If you're going to take that attitude we'd never have landed a man on the moon, or split the atom, or peered into the depths of the universe.

Besides any of that what some other clowns in other countries think is their problem not ours.

Your mob, India, managed to do it. I hope you're not racist enough to think Indians are inherently smarter than Australians?

My reason for opposing it is different to yours. I wouldn't oppose it for fear of the face of Sweden being irrevocably changed. My reason for opposing it is because Sweden would likely crash if it took on so many people (from any country).

For what it's worth, have you ever been to Oslo?

When I was in Oslo and strolling along the main street, Karl Johan Gata, very late at night, you'd see far more black people than white people. Everywhere.

I haven't spent enough time in Oslo to say this is regularly the case.

But I'm guessing this would make you upset?

Edited by quickflick: 25/6/2016 09:15:17 PM

Not sure about being upset but I would be disappointed if I'm completely honest. If I fly all the way to Sweden to experience Sweden's culture yes I would be disappointed to find the place resembling a real nice and clean Mogadishu.

But back to the question at hand I did say no impost remember. So hypothetically, given that Sweden wouldn't 'crash' as you put it, are you happy about such a huge influx of refugees and immigrants?

Hahaha, this made me laugh.

Indians aren't inherently smarter than Australians. India, however, has been a basketcase for a longtime.

I wouldn't aspire for Australia to have a political system like that of India.

I also don't think seeking a wholly new, unstable and pointless political and constitutional system is analogous with groundbreaking scientific breakthrough; splitting the atom, discovering penicillin and so on.

Happily, science is more international than politics, constitutionalism, etc.

One thing to point out, culturally there can be a huge (and I mean huge) difference between people from Goa and other parts of India. For instance, in 1948 when partition happened, this did not effect Goa unduly, as it remained a Portuguese protectorate. Thankfully, these days Goans tend to regard themselves as Indian. But historically, they saw themselves as utterly distinct.

I do admire the enthusiasm with which you make your case.

You'd be better off asking Scott21 that as he actually lives there.

I don't have a huge problem with it because the Swedes I've known whose parents are from elsewhere have been top-drawer.

I really like Swedish culture, for the most part. If Swedish culture died out, then yes I'd think it was tragic.

My experience of immigrants in Sweden is that they keep the culture going. They don't stamp it out.

I'm sure in real "ghetto" areas which are subject to intense division and there's the prevalence of radical Islam, this does happen. And that's bad.

But for the most part, Sweden's immigrants don't diminish Swedish culture. They keep it going, at least in my experience.

This is a Swedish group (ethnically not Swedish) who were hired by the place I work(ed) at. All the Swedish people knew all the lyrics and were thrilled about having them. It was a great atmosphere. There are better clips/song than this but this is football themed so I went with this one

[youtube]WylJMxw10zM[/youtube]

PS- I see what you mean how it would be a shame to go to Olso and not see Norway. But when I went it was still Norway. Just very multicultural (especially on the streets at night).

Edited by quickflick: 25/6/2016 09:37:19 PM

Earning some big bucks atm mate. When the time is right!

It is sometime very good to be racist because that protects people, and their living standards.

There is only so many immigrants any place can take before living standards and wages fall to the point here people can't make a reasonable living.

I think many in Greece are watching the BREXIT with great interest.

The EU is very much on the nose in Greece as well, because they won't allow Quantitative Easing.

Greece has been cuffed and shackled. Powder keg that will explode in Europe's face because Greeks don't like to be shackled.

I can hear the cogs turning in your head from here :lol:

No unless it was an area I had some expertise in. I believe people that disagree with intellectuals on a vibe, gutfeel or pure ideology as anti-intellectuals. There are a few around here like that.

Not everyone needs to be an intellectual but it's an issue when people are ill-informed. I don't think people that are tradies or drive trucks are dumb anyway. I think a decent part of this result is because of a pretty poorly organised remain campaign. There's more to it though and it's probably while I'm actively reading about this issue even though I don't really care a lot about the UK.