What criteria ?



10 years so far and none have, why so sure ?

Didn't these same stupid arguments come up about a national cup?

How long did they last?

People against P/R can't fathom it because they have a warped view due to the AFL / NRL model

They think a second division has to be fully professional with its own TV deal and attendances

They think we'll be adding team after team to the A League until we reach 25 or 30 teams and then we can split them into 2 leagues, and it would be viable because the code is in hot demand

In other words, something that no other code in this country can do despite their billion+ dollars - but strangely possible in 10 - 20 years


Once they accept low cost clubs fully funded by a shared TV deal, and shock horror, low attendances, then they'll realise P/R is not just possible, but it is possible tomorrow

We simply have to let go of our "security blanket" model and implement a structure that works for us

MLS has a continuity problem

By Alex Morgan on May 12, 2016

Leicester City’s glorious rags-to-riches Premier League triumph captures the essence of the beautiful game: the ability for any team, player or coach to rise from the bottom with nothing but hard work, talent, and a shrewd outlook.

The same general theory applies in Major League Soccer. Well, sort of. Any given team can beat another on any given day, that’s for sure, but the problem this season more than others has become the lack of rhyme or reason behind this unpredictability.

For instance, the Chicago Fire, bottom of the Eastern conference, secured their only win so far this season over the Philadelphia Union, top of the division. Then Philadelphia went on to lose just one of their next five games. And that is no outlier in the league this season.

So far in 2016, there has been little to no consistency throughout the league and no team has had the same consecutive result for more than four matches. At this point in the current the Premier League season, there were four streaks of similar or larger lengths, the largest losing run being Aston Villa’s seven straight losses and the biggest winning streak of five games jointly shared between Manchester City and Arsenal.

By comparison, no team in MLS has even managed to string together more than three consecutive victories this season.

MLS scheduling is partly to blame. The fact that the league ignores most FIFA International breaks leaves the top teams exposed during the summer months, and the Seattle Sounders will potentially be missing six players for the Copa Centenario next month. For the past two years, for example, the San Jose Earthquakes have lost their main forward Chris Wondolowski to international duty and have subsequently suffered dry spells in the summer that have cost them playoff berths.

Additionally, MLS’ unbalanced fixture list skews the table until mid-summer. For instance, the last-place Fire have played four fewer games than second-placed FC Dallas, confusing the league table significantly. If Chicago had won all four games in hand at this point, they would be in third, just one point behind Dallas. However hard professional players try to overlook the standings, this can have an untold effect on the Fire’s confidence and that of their fanbase.

The heart of the issue, though, lies beyond these individual cases: it’s that there is no clear key to winning in MLS. Last season, there was no correlation between salary and performance in MLS and although many claim the LA Galaxy have “bought” the MLS Cup for three out of the last five years, the reality is much more nuanced.

In other American sports such as the NFL, the annual Draft helps determines the fate of organizations, preventing any single team from being stuck at the bottom of the table many years in a row and allowing teams to slowly build up strength over time.

In MLS, though, the SuperDraft isn’t very deep and certainly can’t be the focal point of a team’s recruitment system.

Success in MLS relies on smart tactics, a shrewd scouting system, a little bit of luck in the SuperDraft, a good youth development system and most of all, synergies between Designated Players and the rest of the squad: in other words, a good balance of everything. The problem is that MLS’ various scheduling flaws can throw that delicate balance this way and that.

It is perhaps more useful to judge a team by their weakest link than their best player, as a well-rounded FC Dallas have begun shown in recent years with their stellar consistency, but that directly conflicts with MLS’ high-level marketing strategy of bringing in big names to spur TV viewership and ticket sales.

With no consistency in results week-by-week or season-to-season, the league is lacking a coherent plot that can help fans link results from year-to-year. For this reason, MLS will isn’t capable of having a rags-to-riches story like Leicester City’s Premier League title victory in England, or even Chelsea’s massive capitulation. Promotion and relegation, in theory (because that’s the extent of its existence in MLS right now: barely a thought experiment), isn’t the only solution to this problem, or even the most likely one, though it would certainly focus more on results than marketing; therefore, inherently creating more balance in the system.

Few fans would wish for the balance of power situation in markets such as Germany or Spain, where at most three teams have even a shot at winning the title. Yet the MLS contrast, where last year’s league winners find themselves near the bottom of the table the following season, is hardly a superior balance. The talent gap would be forgiven a lot quicker if European soccer fans based in America (or non-soccer fans at all) could understand why their local team wins and loses. And that’s the heart of Major League Soccer’s continuity problem.

Didn't these same stupid arguments come up about a national cup?

How long did they last?

I-League and ISL merger to be opposed by clubs
The AIFF is planning to merge the ISL and the I-League in 2018

Chennaiyin FC won the previous edition of the ISL
I-League clubs in India are set to oppose the planned merger of the ISL with the I-League in 2018. I-League clubs are likely to have a problem with the planned merger wherein only the top two or three clubs from the I-League will join the ISL while the others will be left to play in a second tier league in the country. The All India Football Federation has invited the media for an “interaction on the future of football in India” in New Delhi on Tuesday.
While there is no comment over the exact details of the planned merger, it is expected that the proposed plan to be tabled on Tuesday will include the continuation of the I-League and the ISL in their present forms next year. The changes will be brought in in 2018 when there will be three divisions of national football leagues with two teams from the I-League being added to the ISL.
Also read: AIFF confirms ISL, I-League merger in 2018

The teams which join the ISL are expected to be two from the three most successful clubs in the country; Mohun Bagan, East Bengal and Bengaluru FC. One of the two Bengal based teams are expected to be asked to partner with ISL franchise Atletico de Kolkata.
A source told the Times of India, “The AIFF is trying to copy the American model where the top franchisees play in the Major League Soccer (MLS) while the second tier clubs play in the North American Soccer League (NASL). There will be no promotion relegation to the top league and teams will be added to the top league as and when the organizers feel they are ready."
A senior official from a football club in Goa was unhappy with the way things were being planned by the AIFF. He told the Times, “The AIFF president Praful Patel has always maintained that the ISL is just a tournament and India has just one league, the I-League. Rather than making ISL franchisees join the I-League as corporate entries, why is the AIFF working the other way round?"
The planned merger could result in major I-League clubs like Salgaocar FC, Sporting Clube de Goa, Mumbai FC and Shillong Lajong FC missing out on the newly formed tournament after making significant investments to meet stringent Club Licensing Criteria.
It would be unfair to them if this were to happen inspite of the teams taking such measures to continue as a club in the I-League.

People against P/R can't fathom it because they have a warped view due to the AFL / NRL model

They think a second division has to be fully professional with its own TV deal and attendances

They think we'll be adding team after team to the A League until we reach 25 or 30 teams and then we can split them into 2 leagues, and it would be viable because the code is in hot demand

In other words, something that no other code in this country can do despite their billion+ dollars - but strangely possible in 10 - 20 years


Once they accept low cost clubs fully funded by a shared TV deal, and shock horror, low attendances, then they'll realise P/R is not just possible, but it is possible tomorrow

We simply have to let go of our "security blanket" model and implement a structure that works for us

But I do have my sources and I do regularly speak my mind with both the Executive and the FFA.

Don't remember anyone on here being against the national cup.

I do remember that there were suggestions (by people who were dreamin') that the national cup should be a fully random draw featuring every club in the country from round #1, with 4th division NSW teams flying across the country to play 2nd division WA teams (etc...) in the first round.

The more realistic of us knew it would piggyback off existing state cups, featuring the A-League teams + X state league teams, where X is the appropriate value for a cup featuring 16 / 32 / 64 teams. I was pleasantly surprised when the FFA cup was announced as a 32-team competition rather than a 16 team competition.


Never-the-less, there's a massive difference in travel/accommodation costs between a 31-match cup competition and a 132-match (12 team) league competition. That's what people are still hesitant about.

You mental? Paulc still harps on about it. As is TheObliviousTroll. Assuming they aren't the same.

The idea of it sounds awesome in theory, but unless the whole of Australia is one small city-state, it ain't gonna happen.

The current system works fine. I'd happily have another round before R32, and fully randomise the draw with A-League teams, but that'd be about it (although I also like the seeding idea that a state club gets to the semi finals. Not exactly a pure draw, but it's cool for the club)

Like the NYL is?

In a provocative move by Sage on Tuesday, the forthright mining magnate said the costs of funding the NYL team had simply become unsustainable.

Perth Glory, Brisbane Roar and Central Coast Mariners have put Football Federation Australia (FFA) on notice of their intention to withdraw from the 10-team competition, with Adelaide United and Newcastle Jets believed to pondering whether to follow suit.

The National Youth League (NYL) could be on the brink of folding with three teams set to pull out next season in a bid to cut costs, and two more believed to be considering their options.

This NYL?







o:)

o:)

People against P/R can't fathom it because they have a warped view due to the AFL / NRL model

They think a second division has to be fully professional with its own TV deal and attendances

They think we'll be adding team after team to the A League until we reach 25 or 30 teams and then we can split them into 2 leagues, and it would be viable because the code is in hot demand

In other words, something that no other code in this country can do despite their billion+ dollars - but strangely possible in 10 - 20 years


Once they accept low cost clubs fully funded by a shared TV deal, and shock horror, low attendances, then they'll realise P/R is not just possible, but it is possible tomorrow

We simply have to let go of our "security blanket" model and implement a structure that works for us

What on earth are you on about.

Does a second division need to be fully professional. Absolutely, if p+r is going to take place.

Fully funded by a shared tv deal? The current tv deal barely covers the existing comp. Covering 2 comps from the one top level's tv deal would require a massive amount of additional funding, especially as there are many competing priorities for spending, such as the grassroots, youth development, top level expansion, womens game, indigenous communities etc.

Your sarcasm is apparent though. Obviously no-one thinks there'll ever be a 25 team HAL. No other code in the country can afford a national 2nd division due to extreme costs involved, even with their multi buillion dollar deals. How could we do it with a fraction of the funding? Whether it's Bunburry v Launceston or Cairns v Geelong the costs are ridiculous. The NRL is disbanding its national youth comp as costs were far outweighing the benefits, and even our own NYL couldn't survive in a truly national league format.

Yes it is a priority to work towards creating a national 2nd division and we're on the way there. For those clubs to be able to compete in a national format is still a long way off and then there's the whole how do relegated teams survive with limited exposure and sponsorship. Or the Tv companies that lose advertising revenue from a major city if they get relegated.

A-League sides don't own their stadiums so they would also need to relocate to smaller grounds if they get relegated as the rent would be way too high to be sustainable in a 2nd tier comp. This affects their branding, identity etc

And then there's the current licences which guarantees participation in the HAL. I can't recall how long these license extensions were. Was it 25 years? (except for the Nix)

It will happen one day, but there's a long way to go.

By James Fitzpatrick
Last Updated: 19/05/16 6:08pm


Middlesbrough players celebrate their promotion from the Sky Bet Championship to the Premier League earlier this month
English football could be heading for its biggest shake-up since the introduction of the Premier League under radical proposals which include a fifth professional division.

The Football League wrote to all its clubs on Thursday to explain the ideas, with the aim of bringing the changes into effect within three years.

Each league will consist of 20 teams. The Premier League will remain the top division, with the Football League administering the next four, creating the opportunity for 100 professional teams.



A 'League Three' is planned under the Football League proposals
The new innovative approach to the fixture calendar, which will need 'Whole Game' support, will come into play from the start of the 2019/2020 season, if agreed following a period of consultation with the Football League's member clubs.


The congested fixture list is seen as one of the game's biggest concerns, with insufficient dates available in each season to accommodate league and cup matches without significant clashes, a concern shared with the Premier League and Football Association.

Among the key objectives of the League's 'Whole Game' solution is to maximise the number of weekend and Bank Holiday fixtures and to remove, where practical, fixture congestion and scheduling conflicts.

It also proposes to look at protecting and improving financial distributions and income generation for Football League clubs and to maintain play-off finals as the last event of the domestic season.


Norwich won promotion to the top flight last season via the play-off final
Priorities for the Premier League and FA include increasing the prospect of success for clubs in European competitions and for England teams at all levels.

Retaining the value of the FA Cup competition and achieving a fixture schedule where the final is played the week after the final round of Premier League fixtures is another, along with avoiding a 'problematic' fixture clash with UEFA competitions.


Manchester City were crowned Capital One Cup winners in February
No changes are planned for the League Cup but the Football League Trophy (currently Johnstone's Paint Trophy) will be under a new format which will potentially include a group structure of three games before a knockout phase, with the group matches played over the middle weekend of international breaks.


Barnsley celebrate winning the Johnstone's Paint Trophy
In March of this year, the Football League Board committed to consider these proposals and throughout the initial stages, the body has stressed a number of principles must be established to protect the position of its clubs.

These include ensuring clubs are in a financially no worse - or preferably better - position as a result of any changes, promotion to and relegation from the Premier League must be retained at three places, no relegation out of the Football League in season 2018/19 and that Football League clubs must support the final proposal.


The Premier League will remain unchanged under the proposals
The League recognises in order for its members clubs to give the proposal full consideration, there must be an understanding of what the final proposal will look like in respect of the following…

1. How promotion and relegation would operate in 2018/19 to form the new divisions

2. Where the extra teams come from

3.The impact any changes would have on the National League, and the opportunity to standardise promotion/relegation to three places

The reduction in the number of fixtures played by Football League clubs would be the catalyst for further change and if clubs are supportive of continuing these discussions, the following areas will move up the Football League's agenda with the Premier League and Football Association.

These are…

1. A winter break

2. Removal of FA Cup replays

3. Consideration to be given to moving some rounds of the FA Cup to midweek

4. The future of the Community Shield

The proposal enjoys the 'in principle' support of executives from the Premier League and FA. The Premier League will report to its clubs in the summer, while the FA will consult its board.

The final decision in respect of this proposal must be confirmed by November 2017 - and the Football League will be seeking a decision from its clubs at the AGM in June 2017.

I would love to see A-League -> National NPL -> State NPL.

Don't need p/r anytime soon, just a solid pyramid for the players.
Surely it would have to be a priority for the FFA when the new tv deal is signed, 10 or 12 teams in the A-League and 8 or 10 in the NPL is very do-able.

People against P/R can't fathom it because they have a warped view due to the AFL / NRL model

They think a second division has to be fully professional with its own TV deal and attendances

They think we'll be adding team after team to the A League until we reach 25 or 30 teams and then we can split them into 2 leagues, and it would be viable because the code is in hot demand

In other words, something that no other code in this country can do despite their billion+ dollars - but strangely possible in 10 - 20 years


Once they accept low cost clubs fully funded by a shared TV deal, and shock horror, low attendances, then they'll realise P/R is not just possible, but it is possible tomorrow

We simply have to let go of our "security blanket" model and implement a structure that works for us

Agree with this.

12 Team A-League (Expansion should then be dictated at the games own strength not what the AFL and NRL are doing)

8-12 Team National NPL (clubs selected from current NPL sides who satify increase criteria above State League NPL)

State NPL (8 Leagues of 12 clubs)

Should promotion/relegation ever start between A-League and National NPL then just start small with a one up one down system.

Promotion/Relegation between State NPL and National NPL might still be a tad tricky and might have to be on a conditional basis.

18 pages

there a greater chance that Putin use nuke weapons on a UEFA country then there is of FFA bring in P/R

You don't think it'll happen. We get it.

Any reason you think that means we can't have a discussion on the topic? Assume we're talking in hypotheticals if it makes you feel better.

I actually think it would be better to have pro/rel between National NPL and State NPL first (possibly in Year 1 of the National NPL) and leave the connection to the A-League for later.

Promoted teams would still have to meet strict criteria, but promotion could be given to the winner of the post-season NPL Championship (gives that competition much more importance). Relegated clubs just return to their State NPL and the State federations figure out how to incorporate them into the draw. I also wouldn't have the requirement for the promoted and relegated clubs to be from the same State. If it ends up mostly a VIC and NSW competition because that's where the strongest clubs are, so be it.

It also gives all clubs in Australia the incentive of reaching the national level. Otherwise, you'll pick the 8-10 clubs, and those left out will just have the same arguments we have now about having no way of reaching new heights.

The other thing it does is includes a mechanism so that any clubs who struggle in a National NPL have a way out without folding.

Whichever State NPL the DIv2 relegated club goes back to just has an extra relegated team to the division below that to keep the 12team league-if the promoted one isn't from the same State.

Only issue would be lining up of summer/winter comps assuming the second division is played alongside HAL.

I think I have that worked out

the National NPL would run alonside the A-League in the summer. Lets say straight league season home and away running from October to February the team relegated would go back to their respective state league comp and then go through their state league and then NPL playoff to determine the NPL champion that can go straight into the National NPL division.

We could have something wierd for example lets assume South Hobart finished last in the 2017/2018 National NPL division in February 2018 so will go back to NPL tasmania (the victory League) and then win that comp and then win a national NPL divsion playoffs crowned NPL national state league champs and are promoted back to the NPL national divsion for 2018/2019 so under normal promotion/relegation they technically didn't relegate but if they didn't win the NPL state league playoffs would have state in the third tier.

That is one way I could see it working when factoring in different seasons.

Should the national NPL get off the ground it should at least be at NPL standard venues minimum that are looking for potential to upgrade.

Not sure on other grounds but in Adelaide if ever a 2nd side started or an established NPL club Marden would be a good standard venue for a 2nd division side from Adelaide Metro.