Does "mansplaining" occur regularly? Or is it an attempt to silence men on the grounds of gender? Or somewhere between the two.

Seems to me that lots of people (regardless of gender) talk over others.

Here's an article claiming mansplaining is all the rage. Click on the link to watch the video.

Rebuttal



I'm only going to post part of the article to encourage people going to the link and reading the rest of what Corinne has to say.

There's something kind of ironic that it's about mansplaining (or lack thereof) :lol:

Ugh I see this shit plastered all over social media.

-PB

Why is everyone lining up for the role of the victim?

Like most things - there is a basis of truth in it. But once it gets out into the social media consciousness it just becomes another accusation to throw around and loses all meaning.

Having worked in a corporate environment where the middle management and lower levels are younger and more equal in terms of a 50/50 gender split, yet higher up management is still an old boys club, I have definitely seen with my own eyes many times things that could be called 'mansplaining'.

Patronising and dismissive behaviour to females, as well as assumptions that they are in more junior roles than they actually are etc.

I've been in meetings with my female manager, where the higher ups basically talk to me and ignore her, as if I was her boss.

So it does exist to SOME extent.

But I agree 100%, that much like buzzwords like "cultural appropriation" etc it just gets thrown around so much by some people that it loses all meaning.

Probably more likely Azza people on social media don't actually understand the meaning.

Also is it any wonder Trump would use "mansplaining" ... he is after all very much from the "old boys club" mentality. Considering he pretty much talks down to everyone, even his supporters, I don't think he sees anything "wrong" with sitting in his Ivory Tower.

Well he kinda built that Ivory Tower lol.

-PB

When men treat women the way that they treat other men, they are sexists.

I have heard that women in professional environments get talked over significantly more than men

I've heard the same many times, but maybe I'm just too straight and white to have ever witnessed it first hand. Even if it were true you're misattributing cause.

All professionally non-assertive people get talked over in professional environments by more assertive people, it's happened to me plenty over the course of my career and it's been a learning curve to work on the skills to assert myself in meetings and pitches and not allow myself to be talked over.

Gender doesn't matter, unless you're looking at relative difference of assertiveness amongst between men and women.

Putting a sexist label on a non-gendered fact of human nature doesn't solve the problem for young professionals who still need to sharpen their assertiveness skills.

Australian manhood is bring eroded by the hardline feminist left and you clowns sit here and take it. Fight for your rights before it is too late. Rosie Batty is a good example of the feminist movement hijacking an incident

There is some truth to that, I think "alpha" traits which get most associated with masculinity get rewarded in a corporate environment.

But I must be honest in saying that I have witnessed many times that when women act in this assertive manner, they are very often thought less of and described as "bitchy" etc. Whereas when men do it, it is rewarded.

So often women are in a no-win situation - try and be alpha like the boys, and be thought of as a bitch. Or act in the way women are expected to - submissive, "nice", etc - and not be taken seriously.

The above is somewhat of an exaggeration for effect. But there is definitely truth in it. Especially so amongst the older generation.

There is no doubt that the path to get ahead in a corporate environment is much easier as a guy.

I can only comment anecdotally, from what I have seen with my own eyes.

Do some people exaggerate this as an excuse? Are there things which can disadvantage men/minorities etc? Of course.

But it is definitely an issue. Have a look at how many large firms have almost a 50/50 split all the way up to middle management, but then at the top level there is usually only a single token woman at the board level. The numbers don't lie.

Now am I advocating things like quotas? No. I do think it is something that will just improve over time as the dinosaurs retire. But you can't deny it is an issue.

And getting back to the topic, mansplaining is part of that patronising mindset.

So long as the hardline left concoct bullshit stories like this, to generate fear and separate the sexes, then this country is going nowhere. Stupid ideas like this and female only train carriages show how backwards this country is, in terns of male-female social interaction knowkedge... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/almost-one-in-three-girls-believe-they-should-not-be-out-at-night/news-story/a9037a9d557b23041beee45535c44935

Edited by soft news: 13/5/2016 12:23:02 PM

since 1 in 6 aussie women have been sexually assaulted in their life I don't think any fear women have is misfounded

You have been sold a lemon.

are you claiming that the statistic that 1 in 6 women being sexually assualted is wrong?

http://www.casa.org.au/casa_pdf.php?document=statistics

As Thirsty Merc sang in 2003 'you are gone if you don't emancipate yourself'.

I will leave it at that.... Oh and here are some tips for you too, to help you along the way...

http://au.askmen.com/top_10/dating/things-women-do-to-emasculate-men.html

Edited by soft news: 13/5/2016 12:47:43 PM

Holy Jesus has anybody else clicked on this?
Fuck me I stopped after the first two coz I was laughing too hard
Seriously man, if this is the sort of shit that upsets you then God help you

Ways women emasculate men (those bastards aha)


But wait, check this one out


The psychology behind not just agreeing with any of this but actually fuming about it, never mind writing it, is truly mind boggling. I actually wouldn't know where to start addressing it

The part I bolded, for one thing, why are you trying to get noticed by cruising at 85km/h ahahaha who the fuck thinks that's impressive anyway but I also bolded it because I just feel it really wrings true in isolation of the rest of the quote.

Cheers WaMackie, you've made my day

it was pretty bizarre especially since the topic was about mansplaining and the immediate topic he was replying to was frequency of rape

I think one of the list was holding a women's purse. What in the world? I always offered that to girls if they needed it even if they were friends. Didn't know I was oppressed

That's hilarious as usually my girfriend's purse is stuffed with MY keys and wallet etc etc anyway even if I do end up holding it occasionally

Again, if you are uncomfortable standing alone holding a handbag coz your partner is doing something or other for a few minutes then it speaks far more to your own insecurities than anything else

Naww too much sense is getting posted in this thread now :cry: <- that's me emasculating

The premise behind Mansplaining is an act of men "teaching women" — often about things directly related to women's experience (like sexism, or abortion) without any recognition of (or interest in) the woman's actual knowledge of the topic.

I'm fine with that as I don't know too many men who actually try to educate women about women's issues. Most of my mates have no interest in that.

The problem is when you are debating about some completely random asexual topic such as "the first laws of thermodynamics" and the knowledge imparted upon the female counterpart is labelled as 'Mansplaining'.

Genius insight there. Really adding to the discussion.

I guess the issue is the assumption that the women knows nothing on the topic to begin with. Obviously, thermodynamics is not that common a topic of workplace discussion - a lot of the time it is standard workplace talk and the generally older male management can often talk to the women like they are idiots, whilst thinking somehow they are imparting great knowledge.

They do it to younger guys too, but much more brazenly with women.

I'd love to see some substance to this claim.

Nevertheless, the corporate office is a tough arena for any person, whether it be male of female. Don't you think that holding men to a different standard goes against the kind of equality women are fighting for?

I am talking only from what I have directly seen with my own eyes in the workplace.

I don't think it is holding men to a different standard at all. The whole point is to give men and women the same level of respect.

Women are being held to more difficult standards than man in many corporate environments. That is the problem.

And again, it isn't always the case. And there are other examples of issues faced by people other than women.

I am just stating what I have observed to exist.

sexism is a system of discrimination based on sex. You can't be sexist to a man - that's not to say you can't be predjudiced, hateful or crappy.

??

Please elaborate.

How can one not be sexist towards men? By the very definition and etymology of the word "sexism", it's perfectly possible to be sexist towards men.

Granted, women have been discriminated against on grounds of gender more than men have been throughout history, as a result of the patriarchal structures and values in most societies. But how does this preclude the possibility that men can be discriminated against on grounds of gender?

Are you saying men have never been discriminated against on grounds of gender? Are you saying that men aren't discriminated against on the grounds of gender?

If I can't get a job as a waiter because a restaurant prefers to hire women as waitresses is that not discrimination against men on grounds of gender?

predjudice is different from an "ism"

predjudice is about intention or an act. For example saying "all men/white people suck I won't hire them" is discriminatory and predjudice. Racism/sexism is when its harder to get as good a job in general because of society as a whole either through the culture or rules of institutions. Thats not to say predjudice isn't bad or in some cases worse. For example suppose a women kills a man because she is predjudiced, that is worse than the sexism that she might have experienced in her life.
racism or sexism is when there is a power dynamic and the group that has as a whole more social power has the ability to write the rules either culturally or within an institution. Not all forms of isms are bad - for example . Making the rules of athletics so that the fastest wins is sexist because its a system that advantages men but I don't know anyone who would complain about that. However sexism and racism tends to have a much more devastating effect than predjudice when you look at the average experience of a lot of people.

For sexism people will usually point to
1. Frequency of rape and alleged attitudes and myths that make rape more common and less likely to be prosecuted
2. Comparative frequency of domestic violence against women compared to men
3. Women allegedly earning less than men for similar work
4. Women being underrepresented at the top of most fields.

To contradict my original statement slightly sexism against men could occur in a subculture where the power dynamic goes the other way. But when academics and advocates talk about these isms they tend to mean a country as a whole

Have you got any links to peer-reviewed research to suggest that academics only regard prejudice (or discrimination) on an extremely widespread scale amounts to sexism, racism, etc?

I'm not an academic. And I'm not majoring in gender studies. I am, however, a university student who spends a good deal of time having discussions on similar things with academics. One of my majors is directly related to gender issues.

I disagree that prejudice or discrimination needs to occur on the most significant scale in order to constitute sexism or racism or whatever. A number of my friends might be considered academics and I'm fairly sure (based on our conversations) they would disagree with you too.

We need to apply principles evenly.

It's possible for white people to be discriminated against on grounds of race. And that amounts to racism. It's not common. But it's possible. To preclude the possibility opens the door for all manner of human rights abuses.

The same for sexism. It's possible for men to be discriminated against on grounds of gender. This does happen. If it's taken to court and ruled in favour, good luck arguing that it doesn't amount to sexism.

We, as a society, need to be awake to all possibilities and to oppose all discrimination and treat it even-handedly.

In saying that, I'm fully aware that discrimination on the grounds of gender has been (and still is) substantially worse for women than for men.

Edited by quickflick: 13/5/2016 07:35:31 PM