And I've seen personally the victims of poor little Johnny that are now too frightened to answer their door, go to an ATM, who constantly look over their shoulder, are depressed, suffer from anxiety and in extreme cases wet themselves when frightened because of previous violent acts by low life mongrel thugs like this fuck.

As for locking them up and throwing away the key why don't you trawl back over every post I have put here and quote where I have said that. You won't find a single instance.

So get your fucking facts straight before you start slinging shit.

Before I posted up what that shit had gotten up to none of you lot, that's ZERO, had the balls to either do it, or worse, willfully ignored what he had been up to before that footage was broadcast.

Exactly,

Toughlove is completely disregarding the idea that locking a 10 year old in solitary confinement could have any effect on him as a 14/15 yr old.

Is that directed at me? Because old mate above is calling me a revolting cretin that needs to crawl back in the sea.

Let's be a little less partisan thanks.

Prove to me that as a 10 year old he was locked up in solitary confinement and I will concede your point. I am not disregarding it at all. I have not seen any evidence to suggest what you claim is true and because you refuse to substantiate it I will continue on.

You're making the claim, the burden of proof lies with you not me.

Why cant we have both ? Strong re-education and very strong discipline

I would argue it's not a character assassination because he didn't have much of a character to start with so it was an attempted assassination.

I think it's understandable because of the system that has been put in place not because he's a "shit of a kid".

All of it.

Some are, 11 year old kids are rarely irredeemable. Rational engagement with children can be difficult, particularly kids that have never had good role models. How do you teach your kids rationality? I teach mine by example.


You don't have really know what anyone else's experiences are here.

Probably because that isn't in question.

It was directed at both of you, wasn't here to nip it in the bud before the first post.

We should have both, discipline doesn't have to mean violence and torture.

Because what "That Shit had gotten up to" or rather, the circumstances prior to reaching that position, is completely irrelevant and only idiots would think it is. The Territory, and by proxy the Guards, still has a duty of care to provide for the well-being of people (and especially minors) under it's care.

That means even if the child is a violent ratbag, inside or outside incarceration, it is still the responsibility of the state to ensure that they are not beaten severely and stripped naked by guards in acts of revenge or put in solitary confinement for weeks on end to the point where it could be defined as torture.

If you actually watched the report on 4 Corners you might actually understand why what has happened is totally wrong but you are wilfully choosing to be an ignorant dickhead instead.

There needs to be an imminent delivery of popcorn in this thread...

Yeah im done with it :lol:

Just look them up and throw away the key.

He was catatonic when they came back 2 hours later ffs.

-PB

Ironically, he's still the minister for children lol.

-PB

incarceration is a pooulist solution to deal with confected outrage. it does virtually nothing. it's just a cruel way to deal with problems we are to weak to deal with properly.

locking up children is just abuse. one day we will be looked at the same way as the spartans that left their sick infants on the hillside to die or the communist russians that shipped slaves off to siberia to mine.

So if a child commits a violent crime do we tell them it's going to be ok and 'educate' them to be a better person?

What are we meant to do? How about the people their selfish actions harm either physically, emotionally or even financially? Fuck them right, wrong place, wrong time.......

Centre* brah, this isn't America

Um, yes?

Shitty autocorrect on phone.

-PB

When the empirical evidence shows that being quick to throw kids into an incarceration system only breeds recidivism and escalation of crimes committed, it gets to a point where all you're doing is playing out a weird revenge fetish.

Jesus, that's just a slap in the face for common sense. Has this idiot bred? Please tell me he hasn't.

How does that help kids face the consequences of their actions?

What about victims though? How are they meant to feel like justice has been served?

Toughlove - I think there is a key aspect you are missing here. You said that if this kid had assaulted someone in your family you'd want to belt them, as if that is somehow related to what happened here.

This is not a kid getting belted as an emotional reaction to bad behaviour. This is a systematic, routinized infliction of humiliation and torture over an extended period of time. This is not so much about this kid directly, or what someone would do if he assaulted their kid. This is about the power we put in the hands of the state when they have custody over children.

We don't have a criminal justice system based on revenge and humiliation. We have one that is supposed to be based on rehabilitation, discipline and humane punishment.

The "context" of what crimes the kid committed are utterly irrelevant. Either the guards are just sadistic f*cks given free reign to terrorise children, or they are resourced and trained so poorly that they resort to brutality to keep things in order.

Either way the situation is completely f*cked.

Hahahaha it gets better, the guy they're putting in to replace him (Adam Giles) had come up with this pearler years ago when asked about becoming corrections minister one day;



Can't make this shit up :lol:

-PB

Did you watch the program? 50 minutes that other fella went on a rampage for. Wrecked the joint and threw steel and other fixtures around the place and eventually cut a guards arm with a piece of steel thrown at him.

Whilst not saying it is OK to belt the shit of that bloke, which other posters fail to appreciate, it's understandable, given people are humans after all, that that sort of stuff goes down.

The guards aren't sadistic fucks. They're normal people doing a very difficult job. I know a prison officer and the stories this fella could tell you would turn your hair white. Getting spat on, getting faeces thrown at you, getting told your wife will be raped and your children murdered and cut up. I think some of the posters here think these criminals are locked up for pinching a packet of cigs.

And the ABC this morning. Bleater: '60% of children in remand haven't been charged'.

Caller: 'How many of those are repeat offenders?'

Bleater: 'Oh I don't have that data to hand.'

How marvellously convenient.

But this is my point. The vast majority of what was picked up was NOT an immediate reaction to something happening. It was systematic and routinized, and way out of proportion.

The alleged "riot" was actually 2 of the kids leaving their cells which were left unlocked. The reaction to pepper spray kids who were in their cells not rioting (clearly on CCTV) is just one example of the out-of-proportion behaviour.

Stripping kids naked with 3 guards putting full bodyweight on them is jut not acceptable.

You may very well have guards who are sadistic. Or they may just be under huge pressure. I am not judging one way or the other. My point is the situation is messed up either way.

I agree.

The biggest outrage here is how these juvenile delinquents are portrayed as sweet little innocent victims of sadistic government oppression. There are two sides to every story, and I bet the guards have copped endless more abuse, threats and fecal matter than they have dished out. Although the images might seem shocking to us I bet in that environment where normal human conduct and standards don't apply that the measures the guards have taken aren't all that unusual. After all what else do you do with a kid who is destroying his cell and possibly a threat to the lives of the guards, it's not like you can just hold his hand take him for a walk outside.

Can you believe there are actually people arguing to end juvenile detention, as if you can just sit these brats down and have a stern one on one talk with them and they will suddenly become responsible adults? It doesn't work like that. Many of these kids are violent kids in youth and will become violent in adulthood. They will kill, rape and rob people, despite all the ineffective intervention strategies and confected public sympathy for their cause. They might be kids but that doesn't negate responsibility. I thought it was disgraceful that four concerns would imply that these kids aren't responsible or their actions and it's all the fault of evil white government.