aussieshorter is more or less wanting you to visit his blog site and read what he has to say. 

Imo i have read his site and  whilst have been critical i think he answers many of the things you claim without explaining 

The advantages of pro rel heavily outweight that of a stagnant single tier both as a player development standpoint, an entertainment standpoint and youth development standpoint. 

BETHFC is right. His opinion certainly is unpopular.

You are one of the reasons I don't bother in the actual threads on this topic. Whilst the concept is good, it just won't work. Relegate Perth and why would Tony keep funding them? Same goes for the Mariners and the Jets. We barely have enough money in the A-league without trying to spread it to a 2nd division.

So does Perth drop off the planet? Its up to the owner. Does he keep backing them? Would you pay inflated saleries if they are not performing? Imagine you are on a committee. How do you get back to the top? 

I can't stand stupidity and I'm not going to kiss you and hold you tight. 

True. Same for other teams like wellington if they get relegated....  (actually do they get relegated to Australian second division or back to the NZ leagues, i wonder).. either way its not fair.. its better saving glory ccm and nix at the expense of immeasurably growing the game imo. 

The AAFC or APFCA will help nix... if theyre registered with those groups that is....(wouodnt make sense if they were tho..just sayin)

Perth probably does drop off the planet, that's what i'm getting at. When you have Pro-Rel this shit happens. However we don't have the framework to keep clubs afloat. All contracts would have to be renegotiated.

I swear some of you people are so concerned with your ideas that you don't actually think them all the way through.

No youre whole premise that glory getting relegated and folding will have this devastating effect on the success of football in this country is comical. The show will go on. With or without glory.

For every glory that folds there will be a new aspirant club coming through to takd their place.

Thats the beauty of pro rel. The sport survives and thrives even if a couple of clubs, that dont deserve to be there, fold. 

Like wollongong. Or south lets say. Imagine the scenes. 

Or if they do get relegated the rivalry between south and glory picks up. 

If Victory got relegated its new league. New bunch of ****s to rob. 

"For a 3 year contract we'll pay you $x p/w. If we go down to div 2 you'll automatically drop to $y p/w."

Can't write that into a contract here. We are special and conditional contracting may work everywhere else but not here m8.

Some of you people are still stuck in a tunnel and wonder why our nt is shite.

Good god this is just retarded.

You can't just kill off and revive clubs as you see fit.

This whole discussion is just hilarious.

They would have to rewrite contracts. Some players might not accept. Shitstorm ensues.

I'll give a potential scenario.

Under the model I'm suggesting, by the time promotion and relegation are implemented we have the current A-League and a fully professional A2 League sitting underneath it.  The clubs in the A2 League have been chosen both on merit and to ensure key markets are covered.  That would likely include second teams in Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane.

So let's say that Perth Glory are relegated one year.  There are two possible outcomes.  The first is that the other Perth team that is in the A2 League is promoted in that same year, in which case Perth still has a team in the top tier and there's no issue.  The second is that both Perth teams end up in the A2 League. It is still a fully professional league with a clear opportunity for Glory to win promotion back up.  But even better, you've now got a Perth derby (Fox loves derby games) to increase interest in the A2.

Your concern about Tony Sage leaving the game might be a risk (also a risk right now by the way, albeit lower).  But it's not like this scenario puts Glory out of business or pushes them into an amateur league.

Unless you believe that the current A-League owners are the best and only possible A-League owners available, then your fear is unwarranted.

Perth will never fall off the planet even if relegated.

In fact, Perth would end up with a second team in A2, so consider all the possibilities that would stem from this. 

To try and get this thread back on topic, I'll offer an unpopular opinion.

But I'll start with a disclaimer - I'm still forming my thoughts on this, and can see the holes in my own arguments.

Kids registration fees aren't actually too high.  The critical part of that sentence is the word 'too'.  They are certainly high for many clubs and have increased significantly in recent years.

But if they were truly too high, why are are participation numbers the highest of any sport in the country and continuing to increase every year?  The same people complaining about the fees being too high seem to be the same people who are still paying them regardless.  If they were too high, they would just leave the sport and we'd see participation numbers dropping.  There is a tipping point where that will happen, but I don't think we've reached it.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't be looking for ways to reduce playing costs - we absolutely should.  But to blame kids rego fees for things like player development issues seems off to me.  We have more kids playing football than ever before.  If we aren't producing the players, it's not because the costs are driving them away.

Very true. The market would show if it was too high with falling participation.

However, the fees are too high for disadvantaged people. no doubt, disadvantaged families might find themselves in circumstances where they can't afford to register their children into sports like Football.

So something needs to be done in that space. 

If there are so many people willing to invest in the game, why haven't they? Why did the FFA run the Jets and Roar for so long? This argument comes up so so often and people just seem to think theres several blokes or consortiums sitting there with a blank cheque book outside FFA. It's fanciful. I would like to see some sums as to how we get a fully professional second division to survive. I'd also like to see some numbers concerning keeping a team afloat when they get relegated when their income streams reduce significantly. Do you people even watch European football? Do you know what kind of parachute payments clubs get dropping out of the EPL?

Have you considered the commercial and sponsorship aspects of relegation? Would fox pay the same to air A2? Would they pay for it at all? How much commercial revenue would you expect for a 2nd grade product? Would it be in line with what fox pays to air the Holden Cup in the NRL?

It literally seems like half the people on this forum expect people to come into the game and throw money around. Not just 1 person/group, but several.

Perth was just an example.

So you would rather not have any consequences for teams who constantly are shit year after year and not reward those who do well. 

What a bizarre attitude. 

Terrible argument. I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying that the current football landscape does not permit a pro-rel. In no way, shape or form did I say that my personal opinion was that I did not want pro-rel. I want it, I just can't see it happening in the immediate future.

I don't mean to sound like I keep plugging my blog, but I've provided potential answers to these questions as well.  It would save a lot of back and forth if you just read it and then let me know what you disagree with in particular.

But to answer one your points in particular - "If there are so many people willing to invest in the game, why haven't they?"

Some of them are trying to!  There have been around 10 'bids' for A-League expansion and the FFA haven't even released criteria or a timeframe yet.  Around 100 NPL clubs have joined the AAFC, with one of their main purposes being to get a second division off the ground.  Does that not tell you that there are people who want to be involved?

Beth is very mad and ultimately just confused about where her beloved nix figure into all this div2 and pro/rel talk. Thats the real  core of the butthurt and fear mongering. We have more investors than we can poke a butthurt kiwi at.

What if the landscape was changed to allow for it? 

*insert Robert Deniro "you, youre good" gif

Don't paraphrase it makes you look silly.

1: I am not a girl
2: I don't follow the Nix, I'm on the Gold Coast, my team was removed from the comp
3: Are you here to make personal insults or discuss the topic?
4: Where are these investors? Name names.

How does this happen? The biggest stumbling block I see is commercial rights/allocations/tv deals etc.

That's the A-league though. I have no qualms with expansion providing the regulations set down by the FFA are followed. I think we should be at 14-16 teams. The current format is rather stale.

I cannot see how there wouldn't be a large difference in commercial value between A and A2 leagues, therefore restricting the commercial return on investment for A2 teams.

Fuck mate just read the blog.  It's all set out there.

Honestly, there are none so blind as those that will not see.

Read the blog then come back and bag it out if you want but at least do the author the courtesy before shitting all over the idea.