So the games won't be shown in HD is that what we're saying?

Re the questions on incentives and contra, Timmy has basically answered it.

We haven't heard all that much on what the benchmarks are for the FFA to earn the incentive payments in the 5th and 6th years of the deal.  What we can say is that the dollars on offer are significant amounts in the scheme of things.  Given what we've learned along the way about the massive say Fox has had in proceedings, we probably should not expect that those benchmarks will be easy to meet to get such a big pay day.

On the contra, it's normal for all TV deals to have an element of contra, that is, a guarantee from the broadcaster that they will provide so much in the way of promotion of the product, for example, of the AFL's $2,5 billion deal, $200 million represents contra, so only $2.3 billion is cash.

In the case of the A-League, I did read at one time that half of the $6 mill per annum was for promotion, and the other half was for the marquee fund.

Now, this is the confusing bit, if the $3 mill for the marquee fund represents cash, i.e. a cash contribution to the salaries of marquees, then that actually represents an additional $3 mill in cash, it shouldn't be categorised as contra - but because they have categorised it as contra, it might mean that half of the contra is for general promotion of the A-League, and the other half can only be used to promote high end marquees (Pirlo, Cahill, Holman, etc).

ps I was only kidding about Holman

Yeh, I'd agree there is a lack of clarity, but...on this question the FFA might have a legitimate claim.

They argue that a lot of the additional revenues are difficult to unpick and allocate out.

For example, we know the FFA has had a major sponsorship with Hyundai since day one.  The clubs might argue that the whole of that sponsorship belongs to the A-League, but the FFA might argue that the sponsorship goes back to the rebooting of new football in this country, and that is as much a general football sponsorship as it is a specific A-League sponsorship.

Similarly, we know the FFA pocket all the revenue from finals.  Once again, the A-League clubs might argue it all belongs to them, but the FFA might argue that they have created the hype and spectacle of the finals series, and it represent the pinnacle of football in this country, not just the endplay of the A-League, and at a minimum, hosting the finals has a lot of head office costs.

There are probably other FFA revenues which are even more difficult to unpick.

I don't favour one argument or the other, we probably don't have all the details, but I would say that a chunk of revenue must always be retained to run the competition, run various bits of infrastructure which support the competition (e.g. review panels, ref training, etc), and even more broader than that, contribute to infrastructure which ultimately benefits the league overall in terms of its quality (grassroots, ref education, promotion of the game, etc.)

If $3m of contra is the actual cash for Timmys, Fox will be having the say as to who qualifies, not FFA at all.

Even more highly doubt it will ever get used again if this is the case

Sorta out of left field... with all the going on over in the cricket world re the new media deal... what 9 want in terms of games for the BB etc.... rumour going around that Fox might get the BBL...

Now take this one step further ... only the Greens and ALP is stopping at this stage News buying 10 ... most think the media ownership rules will change ... News will finish up owing a then profitable 10, see my post before as to why 10 will return to profit under News control.

Fox could then show the BBL on both Fox and key games on 10...

Where that leaves us becomes interesting... 

Thank heavens if by accident or with foresight the 10 deal is only 2 years...

However it may not happen as well..... 9 may finish up with the lot as they want.

Did Gallop even do a press conference about the fact it's now on FTA? Surely this was a monumental moment for them...

Praying jnr sees the light

Nah.............put as much into it as the new logo launch

You'd think they might have given O'Rourke a couple of minutes in front of the camera.

or maybe not.  Someone might have asked questions or something......

It's basically his only job.

So, no.

The FFA are guilty of smoke and mirrors over revenue. Of their $100m annual revenues about $75-$80m is estimated to come from the A league but as you say this is difficult to unpick exactly. The FFA have created a model that is unsustainable but the A League itself is sustainable if the A league gets the money it raises, not an unreasonable request and one that the AFC and FIFA support, the FFA has no automatic rights to keep any revenues raised, in fact the FIFA preference is for clubs to oragnise and run their own competitions. we will see if the owners have the balls to go it alone and cast the FFA adrift. If they do it will be good news for football in this country as a highly greedy and inefficient FFA and power hungry FFA will be forced in to major change. meanwhile the A league will go from strength to strength but MUST take a second divison with it otherwise the gap that opens up will never be bridged.

That is a very astute and well argued point.

I don't entirely  agree as we need national sides and other Australia wide adm matters.

What is interesting we have a structure where the state federations cost a bomb.... many have argued and I am in this camp is that the state federations should be closed down and then the money they currently raise could be used to fund FFA and that would mean more money to the A-League clubs.

In the broader scheme of things we fund both state federations and FFA ... IMO we only need FFA to do this work...

I dont like admitting it, but I suspect your prediction will be closer to the actual results than I would like.
I think there will be some novelty to start with and hopefully the scheduling will be kind re derbies and big games, because there were some crap games on SBS.  On the whole I expect ratings to be a little better over the long haul of two full seasons (absent some big marquees), but not too great, say a 5% uplift on current SBS numbers.

I am hoping for two saving graces to get the additional 5%.  SBS really did a poor job with their games.  The commentary was utter dross, saying it was boring would be a compliment, so the Fox feed will be a big improvement in product quality (so that's a plus).  Secondly, Tens target audience and hopefully some cross promotion will help at the margins to improve ratings.

However, one of the big negatives for me in the SBS coverage was the SD picture.  The HAL is a quick game and the SD picture quality is very poor.  We still have that problem on ONE, thats still a big negative compared to other sports shown on ONE.  

Hopefully, everyone else will be right and it will be a runaway ratings winner.  That would be great.

I just wanna point out again - David Gallop gets paid something like $1.6M per year.

:blink:

I never paid for SBS

Food point. But i think he meant mainstream commercial channel. 

I know (and respect) you have a certain viewpoint, but i do see a big difference between the two channels. 

I am curious on how the Fixture will go in the 1st few rounds...... Sydney Derby, Melbourne Derby, Big Blue derby and Melbourne Victory vs Adelaide united will all be played in the 1st month surely.

who do you reckon decides ?

As do I.

SBS's coverage was for the third (sometimes fourth?) best game of the round shown on a Friday night on SBS2, with no promotion/advertising, finals and grand finals on an hour delay, poor quality coverage with disinterested commentators calling the game off a TV in an SBS studio.

Compared to Channel 10 showing the best game of the round (derbies etc) on a Saturday night on One with promotion/advertising (promised but time will tell), finals and grand final live, professional and enthusiastic coverage using the Fox Sports direct feed and commentators.

Seems good to me.

Who pays the piper?

For this reason though it's not a fair comparison 

SBS had the left overs and ten will get the premium.

If the ratings are comparable, then we are in for a rude shock.

If we don't a good close to 200k a good our game is gonna get a huge wake up call.

And still disappointed there will be no highlights show. Even the crappy one that foxtel produces.

I guess time will tell.

Yes, agreed it's not a fair comparison. But it is what it is.

For those saying the ratings will be the same as they were on SBS, it's a win/win. If the ratings are great they will say "well Channel 10 has a better deal with better games etc" and that can't be argued against. If the ratings are at SBS levels then......well that would be very dissapointing.

I'm hopeful there will be a significant increase on Ten/One. If they're at SBS levels then we are in trouble.
It will be an interesting ride that's for sure.

There's no doubt whatsoever that there'll be a big uplift on 10.

Every Saturday night will be loaded up with our biggest games - derbies, MB v WSW etc. that fact alone will mean big ratings.

If the 10 factor can give us another boost then giddy up.

If the FFA model is Unsustainable, then The A-league would of been broke already just like the NSL. The league is starting to get some financial stability and the owners want more money.

The only thing I care about the A-league clubs is 3 things....

1. The Salary cap to pay all the players.

2. Money to pay rent to the stadiums being used and money for the teams to travel and for hotel accommodations for the Away clubs.

3. Survival of the A-league. All this crap about scrapping the cap is stupid. The Salary cap exist for many reasons. One of them is for an even competition another is so Teams don't overspend. You are all happy in people putting 10 million in the A-league. so why don't you key board warriors go out there and Buy an A-league club yourselves?

Why are people so Obsessed with Promotion and Relegation? Is that going to somehow make a huge difference and bring in 1 billion dollars a year in TV rights?

The idea of having a 20 team league with no relegation to me is stupid.

It would be better to have 2 x 10. Some people want as many professional teams as possible. The FFA model doesn't work and having multiple divisions is a way to keep costs down.

not you obviously

We can't expand past 10 teams because the current model has shot us in the foot. Just because it's better than the NSL doesn't automatically make it sustainable

Razor Ramon

You are in a small way right ... the bit you are right in the forum blaming FFA for everything... outside that most of what you posted is out dated moving forward ... its Hal 1 to hal 5 thinking.

We are about to enter the next phase in the evolution..

Phase 1 Hal 1 & 2.... set up the A-League

Phase 2 a.. Hal 2 to hal 10 stabilise and become more mainstream
Phase 2b Hal 11 & 12 ... stabilise, become more mainstream and transition to phase 3 [where we are now]
Phase 3 ..... expand and grow and create a second division.... over 2 to 6 years...
Phase 4 ... P & R

 We need to expand and have a complete overall of governance systems which is about to happen. ... hopefully this will include the state federations as well ... we need to grow ... we have the players we have the bids ...  we need the structure and we need leadership at FFA chairman level.... 

1. We don't need a salary cap. We need clubs that are sustainable. That means allowing clubs to reach their level, some will be big clubs and some will be small clubs. There is no need for a salary cap. We obviously need a distribution to all the clubs but don't you think the clubs can decide how much they should spend. This idea of equalization is like a mill stone around the league. 

2. That's already happening, except some clubs do not know how to negotiate a stadium deal. To be fair to Brisbane Roar though the Qld government basically has a monopoly on Stadium use which doesn't look like ending soon.

3. I don't want a salary cap. I don't want an even competition. Think of the salary cap as a Tariff. As a Tariff it basically allows clubs to remain inefficient and wasteful, like many industries which were propped up in our economy. That is why a system of promotion and relegation is better, it weeds out inefficient and poorly managed clubs. It sorts out the wheat from the chaff. Instead of pegging our team to the worst in the competition we now peg our league to the best in the competition, it becomes an aspirational league. It doesn't mean you spend money you don't have, even leagues that don't have salary caps still have budgets and costs that they want to maintain or reduce. Do you think some Chairman will all of a sudden become irresponsible and drive their clubs into the ground. Some will and they get replaced, because they don't know what they are doing. It doesn't always mean spending the most on players or "buying a championship", it might mean the best academies or the best practices in the A-league. 

4. Promotion and Relegation - it provides for more investment at all tiers. Investors might not want to buy an A-league club, they might want to buy an NPL or an NPL2 club or even lower and earn promotion that way (aspirational). It refreshes the league every season so that we have new teams entering and thereby increasing the base of clubs who have tasted the top level. It provides pressure for the players and the clubs to perform week in week out. This will surely take our football to the next level. It means scrapping hard for every point, fighting for draws, making clubs accountable. It will force those clubs who "cant buy a championship" to think of other ways to compete. In other words more innovation and guile. It punishes the weak and rewards those performing well. It falls in line with AFC and FIFA guidelines. These are just some of the things I can think off the top of my head, I am sure there are lots more. 

so.... you want a Scottish league?

A 42 team 4 tier system would be much better than now

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Professional_Football_League

Although 3 tier 14 teams or 2 tier 18 & 24 would be more to my liking.