@ select few

1. Too many teams makes it harder to make it fully professional. The toughest step up from npl to a league at the moment (in my opinion) is going from part time to full time training
2. Too many clubs overly weakens the third division
3. Condensing the talent takes care of the problem of the jump from npl to a league. If the second division is too week (as well as further weakening the third division) then we aren't much better than we are now where now where too many kids are missing out on meaningful game time and full time professional training at a crucial time in their development. The ideal is for the spacing in quality between every division to be about the same imo

That article reassures me that the AAfc have their head screwed on. Pfas proposal was crazy

Let them play it out then halve the league in two. 

Second division this season? Believe it when I see it.

Unless they can come up with a way to raise finances a lot then there will be no great leap forward. Australian football desperately needs this to be more than an ego ecercise for clubs. It needs more professionals competing at a higher level,  expensive.  It needs a 2nd division with major sponsors and a tv deal. This might happen if they are tapping into untapped markets otherwise the money will just go to the bigger a league. In an ideal world id start with 12-16 teams with each team required to have 10+ pro players and stadia requirements. 

The next step only has to be to in principle establish a national NPL. 

This should be the priority. 10 pro players etc per team per team would never happen in 1 or 2 years from now. 

We need a workable basic cost friendly model. Not start inventing barriers as to why it cant work. 

Why not. Its the Australian way. Bunch of flogs that look for a reason not to establish a second division. 

Lol are you thinking that because some are wanting div 2 to be more than a rebranded npl, that they want more pro players or better facilities, secure financials, thinking how div 2 will go with pro rel etc etc that they really have a secret anti-div 2 agenda? If so let me be the first to say, nice straw man.

Seriously though i want div 2 to happen but i dont believe it is as simple as throwing together the first 20 clubs that put their hand up and hoping for ghe best

10 professionals is a defensible minimum standard

I would like 15 a coach and an assistant coach as a good middle ground

Why not just chuck teams straight into the AL?

a league as its currently set up needs crowd averages for any new club of 10k

Is that written in the criteria that has never been released?

Why can some clubs average 6k but new ones would be expected to average 10k?

the clubs that average below 10k are probably a drag on ratings and tv deals

Crowds are not who pays the wages these days. I would have thought that was obvious by now. 

PFA minimum wage is ca $55k

10 players is $550 000
15 players is $825 000

Before we even start.

How many years before we had 10 clubs willing to pay that or being able to afford it?

We need a cheap league first.

surely the minimum wage is only for the a league

why not just use the federal minimum wage (or is that not allowed?)

I think any player who is professional would or at least should have the right to join PFA. Whether they would agree on a lower 2nd div wage is unknown.

Let clubs pay if they want but don't force any.

Just because they earn minium wage does not mean that is enough to live off. If they are not on at least 65k I would argue they will look for other ways to earn money. 55k might be okay for a 20 year old but the 32 year old captain is going to demand more. His wage with his current job and his wages may push him well over 100k. Dropping down to minium wage might not be an option for him and his family.

I think starting semi pro is the way forward. No need to rush as we have had a semi pro second div forever. After a season or two evaluate the clubs and leagues finances and see if the number of professionals can be increased. 

The people who want to take over the FFA can't make a state league work. Let that sink in 

Source?

If the A-League operating model was far less regulatory and the FFA wasn't concerned with metrics, this would actually be an option.
If the salary floor was scrapped, stadium requirements were lessened, set squad sizes were eliminated, and clubs had greater control over their IP and revenue sources (merchandise, ticket sales, etc.), then it could happen.
Bring in South Melbourne, Wollongong Wolves, Adelaide City OR West Adelaide, Brisbane Strikers OR Brisbane City, Canberra FC OR Canberra Olympic, and Sutherland Sharks.

There would be a number of advantages to this:
> 16 teams in the A-League, allowing for a balanced round robin regular season consisting of 30 rounds, with each team playing each other once home and once away.
> Second teams (and thus derbies) in Adelaide and Brisbane, giving more options to fans who live in those cities but are disenfranchised with the current A-League club. And Foxtel clearly love derbies as a selling point so they would be pleased with this.
> Bridging the relations between the A-League and NPL/old NSL clubs

And a quick justification for each team:
- South Melbourne: The reasons are well covered on this forum already. They are very vocal about joining, have proven themselves with performances in both the NSL and NPL, have an existing venue with a decent capacity, add another option for people in Melbourne, and are generally considered to be one of - if not THE - largest football club in the country that aren't in the A-League.
- Wollongong Wolves: Once again, fairly obvious choice. Unrepresented region with a strong past history, existing facilities, a stadium already up to A-League standard (and a fantastic away day for visiting supporters, I would add), had a crowd of 8000+ turn up on a Wednesday night to watch them play Sydney FC last year (so there's proven interest), strong emphasis on youth development and community engagement, and like South Melbourne they are ambitious about joining the A-League and have expressed vocal interest in doing so.
- Adelaide City OR West Adelaide: Adds another team from Adelaide, capturing old NSL fans and those who are disenfranchised/distasteful with Adelaide United. Both have expressed vocal interest in joining the A-League and both have existing support that would no doubt increase with matches against top flight teams.
- Brisbane Strikers OR Brisbane City: Like South Melbourne and Wollongong Wolves, these two have been well covered on this forum and it's likely that one of these two is locked in for the next round of expansion whenever it occurs. Both play at boutique stadiums with existing support, both have outlined their ambitions in the A-League, there are plenty of dissatisfied Brisbane Roar fans that would be willing to jump ship, it would satisfy Foxtel's wish for a second Brisbane team and subsequently create a Brisbane derby fueled by animosity between the two clubs due to the likelihood of many players and fans switching allegiances.
- Canberra FC OR Canberra Olympic: Gives the capital representation, brings another existing NPL club into the top tier, and provides a pathway to the top flight for footballers in the ACT (currently one of the largest unrepresented regions).
- Sutherland Sharks: Gives direct representation to people in Sutherland Shire through an existing club, with a large cachment area, instant rivalries (Sydney FC, Wanderers, and Wollongong Wolves), successful youth development, a solid potential A-League venue (Shark Park), potential partnerships/good relations with the NRL's Sharks team (where Lyall Gorman is currently the CEO), and Foxtel and FFA get their third Sydney team without the risk of the "Southern Expansion" venture that is still in blueprint phase.

So get these six teams into the A-League AND work on a low-cost second division that can launch within the next five years, taking in the best NPL clubs and the major expansion bids (Tasmania, Geelong, Dandenong, etc.) that are only in blueprint phase at the moment. Any future expansion then comes from the second division.

I pretty much agree with this plan except for the following:

1. We have a budget written in the contract with fox for two more A-league teams, these teams need to be added before the fox deal expires.
2. We have plenty of time then to plan for a meaningful and profession tier 2. It's a sensible timeframe so that prospective bidders can get their house in order, raise funds, prepare submissions, raise capital, plan on getting players.
3. You select a div2 based on a whole set of criteria and quality of bid, location, growth strategy. Teams made up of new bids and well established NPL clubs. You go to fox to help fund it which will cost money or another broadcast partner. It will be cheaper than funding 3-4 new
A-league teams.
4. A period of promotion but no relegation until we get 16 teams.
5. Full promotion/ relegation thereafter.

No point in advocating Greek teams join the A-League if they're can't broaden their supporter base. Teams that want to run their club like they do and did during the NSL will be a negative to the league. Plenty of other options available.

I mentioned Greek clubs because that's who the poster above mentioned but it goes for all clubs that solely cater for overwhelmingly their own ethnic community group. Just doesn't cut it any more.

Just a side note, even if a player is paid the minimum $55k, if it is like any other job in the Australia there will be a host of additional costs that the employer has to cover, such as superannuation, workers comp insurance. So a $55k wage for most businesses costs them $70k plus.

You didn't follow NSL if you think South Melbourne was exclusively supported by Greeks. Simple fact there, they had more than their share of Anglos at games.

given how many greeks there are in melbourne (800k) a melbourne greek club is one of the few ethnic clubs that makes sense

Clubs can't afford to be monoethnic anyway, especially when P&R happens. It's just a short cut to relegation.

Not 800k the greek community in melb is 150k which is big but about the size of townsville. Not sure what the chibese, indian, vietnamese etc demographic is but would rather not go down a football apathied model. Think, or at least hope, many of those clubs have grown up since the nsl days and are now just multiethnic clubs anyway. Those that want to remain mono ethnic probably shouldnt be put on the national stage as they would probably become financial dead weights with a limited fan and sponsorship pool

hmm then that probably translates to crowds of 7.5k since thats what the fury got (unless they get a better percent of supporters)
so even a greek club in melbourne needs to be broad based

But isn't there estimated break even point at 3k or so for SM?