Very telling interview of Ange which sums up the problem.

Watch from 6:11

This is Ange talking about his idealism. I think he's too rigid, by and large. Although I was impressed with the decision to go with three at the back against Iraq, I think he got the strategy and personnel wrong. That was too idealistic. It should have been no Robbie Kruse and they should have been wing-backs who dropped right back.

And when we went ahead, we should have shut up shop on that ghastly pitch. There was no point in going for possession-based football. The way Ange talks in the interview suggests he's just fanatical about his methods. He won't compromise.

A loss would mean 3rd spot the only hope and nearly 3 months to next game

Would Ange be replaced for what would become a 6 game tilt at qualifying ?

If we have a loss, I can only see reform being further away. For the sake of all corners of the game, we need a win.

Lol people saying the Asian cup win was easy? You do remember back in 2007 when our so called golden gen were humiliated right? Lol 

I'd argue the opposite is true. Failure to qualify would intensify debate regarding why we aren't producing players like we used to, which is directly linked to a lack of professional teams.

Use the proper thread please 

Imo if we qualify, he is not the man to take us to the next level at this standard - maybe a national technical director role. 
He has been there for years, promised the world, and still can't even deliver a standard 11 players he uses, has not settled on a formation and picks and chooses players depending on how he feels that day.

Ange has a lot to offer Australian football, but it just is not working and worst of all, there is no glimmer of hope or signs things are getting better. 

IMHO, people are really underestimating how bad our playing stocks are right now.... 
i don't believe a 2nd or 3rd tier foreign coach will be able to do any better, whilst being based here in Australia.
I say 2nd/3rd tier because i seriously doubt a top level coach will relocate to Australia.

Ange is doing a great job with what he has. Is he being idealistic and forcing square players into round holes? yes, but i believe its for their betterment....
He'll get us to the WC and then leave.....

i don't believe that with the current player pool, we can make the next level.....our best #9 is Juric.....let that sink in....
Yes our midfield has some good players and we have some good GKs..but our Attack and our Defence ....

This. Our squad is just not very good and Ange is doing better than most others at least he expanded the pool of players that were not there 3 years ago.
Has everyone forgot about Holger there was no worse manager than him and i think another European coach will do the same he did if Ange is to move on before the WC

We need to stop attacking the man imo.
Locally he's about the best we've got - Roar proved it imo and people mentioning Arnie if it ever happens will have the knives in him within 2games as well.
They can do a great job in the HAL, they work on their squads every day.
At NT level were lacking the players to compete full stop.
No coach could do any better imo.
Your all looking for the crucifixion for the sake of it in the HOPE someone can be the Messiah.
Not going to happen.

Trying to choose th least shit Ange thread - from recollection, the Roos started going downhill after the AC win, when Ange changed from a winning 433 that he had consistently used to a 442 diamond for the early WC qualifiers.

I recall the rationale at the time was that we needed to draw opposition ranked in the hundreds out from their packed, park the bus away from home, defence.

While we won our early games due to the quality of the opposition, we never really looked comfortable and Rather than revert to a tried and tested formula, Ange started to tinker, resulting in a 3241.

Surely the answer is to revert to the system that we have had the most success with - 433. Tucked in wingers, two 8's instead of 10s, whatever. We're not playing Bangladesh anymore, or other teams that we need to draw away from goal. It's Ange's constant tinkering that is the problem. If he looked back to a successful Asian Cup, he'd see a successful system to use.

I think people understand how dire our stocks are, which is why everyone is now saying - 'What the hell are you doing playing a back three?'

Who knows, maybe it is long term pain for longer term gain. 

The trouble with that is the 433, at least the way Ange has done it, is to send both fullbacks forward a long way. That is an excellent strategy if you have defensively outstanding fullbacks and mobile central defenders and a midfield which maintains meaningful possession and strikers/midfield which are clinical in front of goal. If you have all (or at least most) of those things, then the rewards outweigh the risks. You should score more than enough for it not to be high reward, not particularly high risk. Great if you have Gerard Piqué, Dani Alves, Jordi Alba, Andres Iniesta, Lionel Messi, Luis Suarez, Ivan Rakitic, Neymar and so on at your disposal. Those players can ensure that the theory translates into practice.

For argument's sake, you might describe that as ideal. But as soon as you move away from ideal, cracks appear which result in a discrepancy between theory and practice. The further from ideal, the bigger the cracks. And the better your opposition, the bigger the cracks. It's one thing to play that way against crappy Asian teams (although even still Aus can struggle if they park the bus) but it's a massive risk against top-class opponents at senior level.

Unfortunately, at present Aus are a long way from that idyllic Barcelona vignette; virtually nobody is a natural goalscorer, the midfield is clumsy and finds it difficult to break down even average opposition defences (notwithstanding the excellence of Aaron Mooy and Tom Rogic), the fullbacks don't have the football IQ in defence to play so advanced a role without defensive cover and the central defenders aren't mobile. The upshot of it is... Aus have lots of meaningless possession with sideways passing, they lose possession and get hit on the counter with the fullbacks out of position and central midfield and central defence stretched.

And these issues appeared even when Ange opted for 433 with overlapping fullbacks. This defensive frailty is not sudden. Either the fullbacks stay back or there needs to be extra defensive cover. Probably more balanced than 433 would be 4-2-3-1.

^^^ All of that.

And, and this was really driven home last night, our passing (as in the ball speed between the players) is glacial compared to the Brazilians.

The ball moved so slowly between our players that the Brazilians had loads of time to close down 3rd man runs and passing lanes.  Just woeful.

It really was boys vs men.

Yeah no argument with that, two screeners is probably what we need in a WC to be competitive, or possibly a defensive minded alrounder like Milligan or Luongo at 8 with only one of Rogic or Mooy. I suppose I'd see a 4231 as a 433 variation.

I know the last coach to really focus on that was Pim, but there are other ways to play that system that what he did. For a start he played Cahill as no.10 (instead of Bresc, our greatest ever 10) and Kennedy as 9 whereas now Rogic is an option (quickly catching Bresc).

A lot would depend on the instructions to the fullbacks, how far and when to get forward, which in turn depends upon our wingers and what they provide in terms of width (a weakness since Kruse was injured before the 2014 WC).

Personally the German 4231 from 2010 Is a standout memory for the system played. They had pretty narrow wingers from memory (Podolski), a lot of creativity from the base of the triangle and tore teams apart.

Edit - Pim had the same problem with fullbacks. Believe it was Emerton and Chippers both going forward at the same time against Iraq, possibly in Brisbane. Solved it thereafter by instructing one to go forward at a time. Ange instructs both to play high the whole time.

I also just realised that what I described is bascially the way Sydney played this year.

interesting 

Chile match was an improvement on last WC. Although Chile in different position of not really needing to go all out for a win.

Overall a semi-pass mark. Poor in first game, poor in second game but got a result. Good in last game, but we didn't end up with what we needed and chile did. A fair bit of positive output to take out from that last match though which is definately not the way it was looking after two matches. 

Ange must be convinced to stay on for another 4 years. We are in a period of transition and Ange is the best man for the job. 

The difference in the last game is that we set up for pressing rather than controlling the game with players like Mooy and Rogic...which Ange's teams have always been good at. When we set up for that against teams that have a similar mentality to Ange we tend to have a good game. First two matches Ange tried to dominate possession which worked at times (such as against Germany when Mooy dropped deeper and with Rogic against Cameroon). Problem is we're not ruthless enough when dominating possession because the wingers haven't been good enough when taking on their players and when Rogic is marked out of the game the wingers and other AM haven't provided enough to exploit the space provided by players doubling up on Rogic. Looking forward to seeing what Mooy, Irvine, Rogic and Troisi can do together. Seems like a good mix. Hard to choose now with Cahill and Luongo showing that they work well in the system. But when we are dominating possession with a team not attacking as hard as Chile; Rogic and Mooy is probably still the way to go.  

Really looking forward to seeing more of Gersbach. 

Big test of his mettle will be with Jedinak coming back. If the team is looking better without Mile, will he not start him?

Milligan is probably better at the back. Irvine is better at pressing. Luongo and Mooy both better at distribution. Can't see how he'd fit unless he drops into the middle CB next to Milligan and Sains. 

I think Ange prefers Milligan anyway. If they both are playing Championship next season he won't have to worry about who's playing a higher level in the position. 

I reckon Jedinak will be more useful coming off the bench if we have a lead. He can be our impact player to break up play.

Maybe Rogic as the impact player for taking it to the opposition. Tired legs and open spaces and we're chasing a game or trying to get a lead, throw in Rogic.

But if we're trying to defend a lead, throw in Jedinak in central midfield and use our strength. That's not fun for an opposition who are, themselves, tiring and needing to win battles in the middle of the the park. Jedinak breaking up play against tired legs is ideal.

Yeah, if milligan focused on defending now, he'd probably get an extra two career years at a decent level. 

Milligan, Spira, Sains are as good as it can get for us at the back I think

Yes, agree with that. Last 20 against Japan protecting a 2-1 lead :) 

Updated results in OP.

Ange's arrogance seems to be catching up with him.

How he can ignore (as reported) a league winning player in Jones but pick players who never get club games such as Smith is staggering. This play out from the back is a total failure. Ther teams know they can let the aussies do it because A- They do nothing with it anyway B - will turn it over under the slightest pressure. 

You pick Jones and Behich and we probably get a 1-1 draw...does Ange actually watch football or?

He's 100% leaving and I'm glad he is to be honest. While Ange has been great, I think it might be best for all parties to move on after Russia. The love affair has just about ran its race and we need a new direction. Ange had no answer to the Japanese press last night.