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RBBAnonymous
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+x+x+xI am not a fan of what they are trying to do. We need to have less regulations not more. This second division will lend itself to be full of young players anyway, but if a club doesn't want to go in that direction they shouldn't be forced to. The long list of regulations etc is why I commented on another thread that I don't see this as the blueprint for a second division but rather for a national semi-professional competition. In my view this is for the third tier from which some might get elevated to the top tier in the short term but in the medium term the best of these clubs will vie for elevation to a fully professional second tier competition. That makes exactly no sense gyfox. more regulations = higher barriers for entry. much harder for a semi-professional club to compete in this f-kup of a 2nd division. what semi-pro team can afford to double costs on a womens team for no added revenue? I agree that the barriers to entry should be high, but I don't agree on player quota's especially only 2 visa players and half the squad being u23 players. They might as well implement a 3+1 rule while we are here, for those clubs who are ambitious enough to afford it. Even with a 3-4 visa rule you will still have more than enough young players looking to play in this league and being noticed without lowering playing standards. The biggest difference between the A-league and the NPL now is the gulf in class that exists in the foreign contingent of players. What I am hoping for more than anything to come out of this is new players in the football market who want to invest and build a platform for a long term A-league club but starting from "The Championship". I would hope that any previous bidders who had aspirations for the A-league and have been frustrated by the process might consider this is as a viable alternative, this includes teams like "The Southern Expansion" bid. It would preferable that this 2nd tier be built up in this way and the A-league along with it through pro/rel. That is the best way to capture the synergies of pro/rel and create interest in both leagues. We need both leagues to be strong for that very reason.
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City Sam
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+x+x+x+xI am not a fan of what they are trying to do. We need to have less regulations not more. This second division will lend itself to be full of young players anyway, but if a club doesn't want to go in that direction they shouldn't be forced to. The long list of regulations etc is why I commented on another thread that I don't see this as the blueprint for a second division but rather for a national semi-professional competition. In my view this is for the third tier from which some might get elevated to the top tier in the short term but in the medium term the best of these clubs will vie for elevation to a fully professional second tier competition. That makes exactly no sense gyfox. more regulations = higher barriers for entry. much harder for a semi-professional club to compete in this f-kup of a 2nd division. what semi-pro team can afford to double costs on a womens team for no added revenue? I agree that the barriers to entry should be high, but I don't agree on player quota's especially only 2 visa players and half the squad being u23 players. They might as well implement a 3+1 rule while we are here, for those clubs who are ambitious enough to afford it. Even with a 3-4 visa rule you will still have more than enough young players looking to play in this league and being noticed without lowering playing standards. The biggest difference between the A-league and the NPL now is the gulf in class that exists in the foreign contingent of players. What I am hoping for more than anything to come out of this is new players in the football market who want to invest and build a platform for a long term A-league club but starting from "The Championship". I would hope that any previous bidders who had aspirations for the A-league and have been frustrated by the process might consider this is as a viable alternative, this includes teams like "The Southern Expansion" bid. It would preferable that this 2nd tier be built up in this way and the A-league along with it through pro/rel. That is the best way to capture the synergies of pro/rel and create interest in both leagues. We need both leagues to be strong for that very reason. 2nd divisions and lower should mainly be local players, we need to actually develop some players to improve the quality of football in this country
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paladisious
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I agree that some of the squad restrictions seem unnecessary, in fact most A-League clubs would comply with that 25 year old rule anyway, Victory has 12 of 22 players aged 25 or under, CCM has 15 out of 23.
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bluebird
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I'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot
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City Sam
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+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented?
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Gyfox
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+x+x+xI am not a fan of what they are trying to do. We need to have less regulations not more. This second division will lend itself to be full of young players anyway, but if a club doesn't want to go in that direction they shouldn't be forced to. The long list of regulations etc is why I commented on another thread that I don't see this as the blueprint for a second division but rather for a national semi-professional competition. In my view this is for the third tier from which some might get elevated to the top tier in the short term but in the medium term the best of these clubs will vie for elevation to a fully professional second tier competition. That makes exactly no sense gyfox. more regulations = higher barriers for entry. much harder for a semi-professional club to compete in this f-kup of a 2nd division. what semi-pro team can afford to double costs on a womens team for no added revenue? Playing in a national league should have greater requirements than a state league. Its a given. Semi-professional clubs that can't afford it stay in the state competition. Thats not a problem. What isn't a given is for a second division to have limitations on player ages etc. That belongs in a lower level development competition in my view. Hence my comment that much of the document is written for a third tier national competition. On your point on a women's team I see the need for more women's teams to grow the game and improve development. Whether that is required at a semi-pro level or should apply only at the professional level is the point for discussion. In my view it should be a requirement of professional clubs. I see what is proposed as the first step in a few to grow the depth of the game. Establishing another league at national level is a great idea. Having that lead to establishing a second professional tier in 5+ years time while expanding the A-League to 16 clubs in the meantime would be a positive development. As well as expanding at the elite national levels I would like to see each state move along the path towards having 3 NPL tiers of 16 clubs and state league competitions of 16 clubs below that. Because of the number of players each state will be at a different point but the aim should be to deepen the structure everywhere over time.
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sokorny
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.2K,
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+x+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented? No need to have it in the first place IMO. If the idea is to set up a comp eventually for pro/rel why have "equalisation" measures such as this?? The young / or Aussie player quotas I can understand as it is about providing a pathway for development in Australia (I wouldn't set it as old or as high as they have), but otherwise keep it open slather. Also the quota I believe shouldn't be on number of foreigners, but instead the number of Aussies you must have in the squad. Which is more in line with European thinking, but against the rest of Asia atm.
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bluebird
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K,
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+x+x+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented? No need to have it in the first place IMO. If the idea is to set up a comp eventually for pro/rel why have "equalisation" measures such as this?? The young / or Aussie player quotas I can understand as it is about providing a pathway for development in Australia (I wouldn't set it as old or as high as they have), but otherwise keep it open slather. Also the quota I believe shouldn't be on number of foreigners, but instead the number of Aussies you must have in the squad. Which is more in line with European thinking, but against the rest of Asia atm. I don't agree with the youth quotas. We have a youth league. Although it doesn't have to be national, every club should have a youth development strategy A second division will largely be semi pro or low cost so there is an inevitability that the majority of players in it are youth, particularly with the bottom table clubs. So why force it? The A League and second division are two tiers of the same league. The only restrictions should be a 3+1 rule. Natural selection will take care of the rest. Which teams are at the top, which teams are at the bottom, where youth fits in I don't understand why everything has to be restrictions, quotas, balance, rules, requirements...The framework has already been developed and time tested. All we need is teams for a top tier, teams for a second tier, and a way to finance it. Its much easier than we are making it out to be
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
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+xGo here for the details - http://www.thechampionship.com.au/Some of the more interesting things for me: Our proposal is to introduce a national second tier men’s and women’s competition from 2019 to be known as ‘The Championship’ The Championship will be established as a separate legal entity from FFA, the member federations and the AAFC. The budget for the administration of The Championship, including payments to state federations for referees and judiciary services, will be sourced from sponsorship and license fees without any requirement for funding from FFA, the A-League, state federations or NPL clubs. The Championship is a 12-16 club competition for both men and women to be aligned with the A-League season, commencing in October 2019. Expansion to 20 teams is envisaged over five seasons by 2024. Clubs may also continue to participate in the winter state-based NPL competitions. We will apply to the Asian Football Confederation for the winner of The Championship to be granted a place in the Asian Champions League. - boutique stadium with minimum capacity of 3,000
- most stadiums would hold 3000. It doesnt say 3000 seats
- capacity to field a men’s and women’s team
- To me this doesnt make sense. Even the AL & WL dont mirror each other.
- head coaches of both the men’s and women’s teams to hold at least an A-License
- fine
- Board, management and staff structure in place with adequate resources
- fine
- 5-year strategic plan and annual business plan
- fine
- capacity to meet an annual budget of $2.5 million, including an annual license fee of $150,000
- fine
- established relationship with NPL feeder clubs.
- questionable, same time AL clubs do it
- salary cap of $1 million initially across the two squads (men and women)
- initially, ok i can buy that
- maximum squad size of 20 players for men and women
- Could be more
- at least 50% of the squad must be 25 years or younger
- Not sure this is needed
- maximum of 2 visa players, drawn only from the AFC or the Oceania Football Confederation with an exception for players who have residency status as a refugee
- Do not like. Asia I can buy but why help Oceania? Why restrict clubs from scouting eg African players to later sell to Asian clubs. This means if you are from UK you are not welcome etc Why let a NZ player play but not a Brit?
- maximum of 3 players who have played A-League or W-League in the previous two seasons
- Dont understand this
- incentives to promote the inclusion of youth players contracted to A-League clubs.
- Why? Teams should be trying to win
AAFC has commenced discussions with broadcasters and is well-advanced in finalising a new and unique broadcasting model. AAFC has also commenced discussions with potential sponsors. The aim of sponsorship of The Championship is to cover the cost of travel and accommodation for the competitions, as well as contribute to additional marketing expenditure. Our intention is to discuss promotion/relegation further with the A-League clubs and FFA with a view to implementation of full promotion and relegation by 2024. In terms of the state-based NPL competition, we intend discussing the integration of promotion and relegation from the NPL to The Championship, and subject to meeting the criteria, with the state-based member federations also with a view to implementation by 2024. End of the day, I am happier that we are making progress than the things I personally see as issues. Doesnt mention stadium criteria, only 3000 (which may be standing). Dont likethe visa rule at all. Either Asia only or open imo.
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RBBAnonymous
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.8K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+x+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented? No need to have it in the first place IMO. If the idea is to set up a comp eventually for pro/rel why have "equalisation" measures such as this?? The young / or Aussie player quotas I can understand as it is about providing a pathway for development in Australia (I wouldn't set it as old or as high as they have), but otherwise keep it open slather. Also the quota I believe shouldn't be on number of foreigners, but instead the number of Aussies you must have in the squad. Which is more in line with European thinking, but against the rest of Asia atm. I don't agree with the youth quotas. We have a youth league. Although it doesn't have to be national, every club should have a youth development strategy A second division will largely be semi pro or low cost so there is an inevitability that the majority of players in it are youth, particularly with the bottom table clubs. So why force it? The A League and second division are two tiers of the same league. The only restrictions should be a 3+1 rule. Natural selection will take care of the rest. Which teams are at the top, which teams are at the bottom, where youth fits in I don't understand why everything has to be restrictions, quotas, balance, rules, requirements...The framework has already been developed and time tested. All we need is teams for a top tier, teams for a second tier, and a way to finance it. Its much easier than we are making it out to be I don't agree that the second tier needs to be semi-pro. We have that already. What we want to do is create an environment where fringe players in the A-league who are not getting game time will be enticed to play in this league and be on a national stage week in week out. They need to be playing good competition which will raise the standards of these players and enable them to be better players when they go back to the A-league. Sitting on the bench and not playing doesn't do anyone any good. You can't expect that to happen in a semi-pro league. Sure lets keep administration costs down, hiring of stadiums down, admin staff down etc, but we should be trying to make this a viable professional league so make sure the players get paid as much as possible so that this is a full time job. That is the only way forward. It needs to be good enough that you would want to watch on FTA like on SBS or even provide more content for Fox down the road. There should be minimum standards that must be met but surely we should not be capping this league with a salary cap of any sort, that also includes no quotas for young players. If you don't make this a good product no one will watch it and it will turn to shit.
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sokorny
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.2K,
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+x+xGo here for the details - http://www.thechampionship.com.au/Some of the more interesting things for me: Our proposal is to introduce a national second tier men’s and women’s competition from 2019 to be known as ‘The Championship’ The Championship will be established as a separate legal entity from FFA, the member federations and the AAFC. The budget for the administration of The Championship, including payments to state federations for referees and judiciary services, will be sourced from sponsorship and license fees without any requirement for funding from FFA, the A-League, state federations or NPL clubs. The Championship is a 12-16 club competition for both men and women to be aligned with the A-League season, commencing in October 2019. Expansion to 20 teams is envisaged over five seasons by 2024. Clubs may also continue to participate in the winter state-based NPL competitions. - boutique stadium with minimum capacity of 3,000
- most stadiums would hold 3000. It doesnt say 3000 seats
- capacity to field a men’s and women’s team
- To me this doesnt make sense. Even the AL & WL dont mirror each other.
- head coaches of both the men’s and women’s teams to hold at least an A-License
- fine
- Board, management and staff structure in place with adequate resources
- fine
- 5-year strategic plan and annual business plan
- fine
- capacity to meet an annual budget of $2.5 million, including an annual license fee of $150,000
- fine
- established relationship with NPL feeder clubs.
- questionable, same time AL clubs do it
- salary cap of $1 million initially across the two squads (men and women)
- initially, ok i can buy that
- maximum squad size of 20 players for men and women
- Could be more
- at least 50% of the squad must be 25 years or younger
- Not sure this is needed
- maximum of 2 visa players, drawn only from the AFC or the Oceania Football Confederation with an exception for players who have residency status as a refugee
- Do not like. Asia I can buy but why help Oceania? Why restrict clubs from scouting eg African players to later sell to Asian clubs. This means if you are from UK you are not welcome etc Why let a NZ player play but not a Brit?
- maximum of 3 players who have played A-League or W-League in the previous two seasons
- Dont understand this
- incentives to promote the inclusion of youth players contracted to A-League clubs.
- Why? Teams should be trying to win
AAFC has commenced discussions with broadcasters and is well-advanced in finalising a new and unique broadcasting model. AAFC has also commenced discussions with potential sponsors. The aim of sponsorship of The Championship is to cover the cost of travel and accommodation for the competitions, as well as contribute to additional marketing expenditure. Our intention is to discuss promotion/relegation further with the A-League clubs and FFA with a view to implementation of full promotion and relegation by 2024. In terms of the state-based NPL competition, we intend discussing the integration of promotion and relegation from the NPL to The Championship, and subject to meeting the criteria, with the state-based member federations also with a view to implementation by 2024. End of the day, I am happier that we are making progress than the things I personally see as issues. Doesnt mention stadium criteria, only 3000 (which may be standing). Dont likethe visa rule at all. Either Asia only or open imo. Don't use red highlighting in the future .... near on impossible to read! But agree with most your comments
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+x+x+xGo here for the details - http://www.thechampionship.com.au/Some of the more interesting things for me: Our proposal is to introduce a national second tier men’s and women’s competition from 2019 to be known as ‘The Championship’ The Championship will be established as a separate legal entity from FFA, the member federations and the AAFC. The budget for the administration of The Championship, including payments to state federations for referees and judiciary services, will be sourced from sponsorship and license fees without any requirement for funding from FFA, the A-League, state federations or NPL clubs. The Championship is a 12-16 club competition for both men and women to be aligned with the A-League season, commencing in October 2019. Expansion to 20 teams is envisaged over five seasons by 2024. Clubs may also continue to participate in the winter state-based NPL competitions. - boutique stadium with minimum capacity of 3,000
- most stadiums would hold 3000. It doesnt say 3000 seats
- capacity to field a men’s and women’s team
- To me this doesnt make sense. Even the AL & WL dont mirror each other.
- head coaches of both the men’s and women’s teams to hold at least an A-License
- fine
- Board, management and staff structure in place with adequate resources
- fine
- 5-year strategic plan and annual business plan
- fine
- capacity to meet an annual budget of $2.5 million, including an annual license fee of $150,000
- fine
- established relationship with NPL feeder clubs.
- questionable, same time AL clubs do it
- salary cap of $1 million initially across the two squads (men and women)
- initially, ok i can buy that
- maximum squad size of 20 players for men and women
- Could be more
- at least 50% of the squad must be 25 years or younger
- Not sure this is needed
- maximum of 2 visa players, drawn only from the AFC or the Oceania Football Confederation with an exception for players who have residency status as a refugee
- Do not like. Asia I can buy but why help Oceania? Why restrict clubs from scouting eg African players to later sell to Asian clubs. This means if you are from UK you are not welcome etc Why let a NZ player play but not a Brit?
- maximum of 3 players who have played A-League or W-League in the previous two seasons
- Dont understand this
- incentives to promote the inclusion of youth players contracted to A-League clubs.
- Why? Teams should be trying to win
AAFC has commenced discussions with broadcasters and is well-advanced in finalising a new and unique broadcasting model. AAFC has also commenced discussions with potential sponsors. The aim of sponsorship of The Championship is to cover the cost of travel and accommodation for the competitions, as well as contribute to additional marketing expenditure. Our intention is to discuss promotion/relegation further with the A-League clubs and FFA with a view to implementation of full promotion and relegation by 2024. In terms of the state-based NPL competition, we intend discussing the integration of promotion and relegation from the NPL to The Championship, and subject to meeting the criteria, with the state-based member federations also with a view to implementation by 2024. End of the day, I am happier that we are making progress than the things I personally see as issues. Doesnt mention stadium criteria, only 3000 (which may be standing). Dont likethe visa rule at all. Either Asia only or open imo. Don't use red highlighting in the future .... near on impossible to read! But agree with most your comments ok
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Kamaryn
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.6K,
Visits: 0
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I'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two.
A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea.
Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time.
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aussie scott21
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 19K,
Visits: 0
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+xI'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two. A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea. Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time. On the 50% thing, one way of thinking perhaps is that in say 5 years they want players to be "ripe" to play A-League if promoted. Maybe not at all. But not playing players against the best players seems like the wrong way to go about things.
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Kamaryn
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Group: Forum Members
Posts: 3.6K,
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+x+xI'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two. A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea. Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time. On the 50% thing, one way of thinking perhaps is that in say 5 years they want players to be "ripe" to play A-League if promoted. Maybe not at all. But not playing players against the best players seems like the wrong way to go about things. Yeah, I imagined a similar intention. Like with a lot of ideas, the motivation is right but the execution is wrong. Maybe a few squad positions for youth at most, but I remain convinced that the the best thing for youth development is having the strongest second division possible. That way, any young players who are good enough to make it into squads are playing against/training with the highest standard possible, and not a heap of weaker players who are there due to quotas.
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bluebird
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+x+x+x+x+xI'm not going to quote the post about the championship above but it has significant flaws 1/ The $2.5m capital is far too high for a second division club 2/ The requirement of a womens club doesn't make sense. There isn't enough funding for 24 womens clubs across 2 tiers. They need to be formed separately 3/ Salary cap? Seriously? Can we just fuck off these Australian soil ideas. How the FUCK can you promote a club to the A League from a balanced league where teams aren't even in control of the fate of their own investment 4/ Direct entry into the Asian Champions League which specifically excludes second tier clubs 5/ Restrictions on number of A League and W League players?? Seriously???? The first time a club is relegated they have to kiss good bye 90% of their squad This is the problem with people taking things into their own hands. Their proposals are based on emotion and desire but without the professional understanding to get it across the line. It lacks basic understanding of how things work and seems to just be about ticking boxes The thing I have long said is we only get one chance at a second tier. If not done properly it spells the end of it as there will be "I told you so"s for decades to come If there is money for a second tier then there is money to bring in professional expertise to draft the proposal up properly and set the foundation for a functional second tier from day dot Is it possible that some of these limitations such as 3 A League players would be removed by 2024 when P and R is said to be implemented? No need to have it in the first place IMO. If the idea is to set up a comp eventually for pro/rel why have "equalisation" measures such as this?? The young / or Aussie player quotas I can understand as it is about providing a pathway for development in Australia (I wouldn't set it as old or as high as they have), but otherwise keep it open slather. Also the quota I believe shouldn't be on number of foreigners, but instead the number of Aussies you must have in the squad. Which is more in line with European thinking, but against the rest of Asia atm. I don't agree with the youth quotas. We have a youth league. Although it doesn't have to be national, every club should have a youth development strategy A second division will largely be semi pro or low cost so there is an inevitability that the majority of players in it are youth, particularly with the bottom table clubs. So why force it? The A League and second division are two tiers of the same league. The only restrictions should be a 3+1 rule. Natural selection will take care of the rest. Which teams are at the top, which teams are at the bottom, where youth fits in I don't understand why everything has to be restrictions, quotas, balance, rules, requirements...The framework has already been developed and time tested. All we need is teams for a top tier, teams for a second tier, and a way to finance it. Its much easier than we are making it out to be I don't agree that the second tier needs to be semi-pro. We have that already. What we want to do is create an environment where fringe players in the A-league who are not getting game time will be enticed to play in this league and be on a national stage week in week out. They need to be playing good competition which will raise the standards of these players and enable them to be better players when they go back to the A-league. Sitting on the bench and not playing doesn't do anyone any good. You can't expect that to happen in a semi-pro league. Sure lets keep administration costs down, hiring of stadiums down, admin staff down etc, but we should be trying to make this a viable professional league so make sure the players get paid as much as possible so that this is a full time job. That is the only way forward. It needs to be good enough that you would want to watch on FTA like on SBS or even provide more content for Fox down the road. There should be minimum standards that must be met but surely we should not be capping this league with a salary cap of any sort, that also includes no quotas for young players. If you don't make this a good product no one will watch it and it will turn to shit. The minimum salary for a player is about 50k (+/- 10k based on age). For a 23 player squad that is $1.15m. Not many people will be a full time player on $50k a year The other thing is the "who pays for it" question A second tier is viable tomorrow by simply replacing the youth league with a second tier. If you factor in over $1m for player salaries then it is not possible tomorrow I don't see why it needs to be "watchable" on SBS in its first year or even second year. This is about placing the second best players onto a national stage as part of a player development platform. There is no need to create a marketable competition. This desire is what has effectively killed the A League The teams at the top will have bigger salaries as they push to be part of the top tier, where as those at the bottom will be part timers. I don't see how anything else is required All that is required for now is a base to build from. The bigger the A League becomes as a result of the top teams progressing to the next level, the more money that filters down, the bigger the second tier becomes The starting point for this seems to be twice the cost and 150% of the teams of the A League when it first launched from nothing, with additional club requirements. It wont even get off the ground
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bluebird
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+x+xI'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two. A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea. Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time. On the 50% thing, one way of thinking perhaps is that in say 5 years they want players to be "ripe" to play A-League if promoted. Maybe not at all. But not playing players against the best players seems like the wrong way to go about things. In 3 years time the 22 year olds will be ineligible to play in the league
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aussie scott21
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+x+x+xI'll post my rant from the other thread here, seeing there seems to be two. A 50% minimum youth quota effectively nullifies this as a true second division. The point of a second division was to concentrate the next 200-240 best players into 10-12 clubs, raising the standard of competition and reducing the difficulty of moving up to first division. However, this means that less than 50% of those in the comp are guaranteed to be the best, with many of the rest in there because they have to target youth. Sure, some will be there because they are good enough but many won't be. And unless the decent under 25s are good enough to replace the 26-35 year olds, they will have to jump down to a weakened third division once they hit 26. Stupid decision. I would rather no second division than this bastardised idea. Edit: Equally moronic is a limit to 3 former A-League players. So what you are saying is this league isn't about being the next tier between the A-League and the NPL. Otherwise, you would be after all those players who are on the cusp of A-League squads - those who are too good for the NPL but maybe just not good enough for first division. Further proof that this is effectively a youth league. AAFC have balls'd this up big time. On the 50% thing, one way of thinking perhaps is that in say 5 years they want players to be "ripe" to play A-League if promoted. Maybe not at all. But not playing players against the best players seems like the wrong way to go about things. In 3 years time the 22 year olds will be ineligible to play in the league Perhaps but the rules are hardly set in stone. FFA may nd up changing them if they were to sanction the league.
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bluebird
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I'm going to make another point to my reply above If you turn to SBS2 HD right now you'll see the W League There is little in the way of attendance as a reflection of not as much interest in the women's game. The players are largely semi professional. And with less squad depth there are more errors than a national game But what you see is a viable national league where players can perform on a central platform. The result is the Matildas are getting stronger as a result. The larger the game comes, the more money filters down to the W League and the baseline improves Nothing more is required for a second tier than this. Obviously spending above minimal is discretionary and the "to be" A League clubs at the top will be of a higher grade, but nothing higher than what you can see on TV right now should be mandatory
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aussie scott21
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RBBAnonymous
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+xI'm going to make another point to my reply above If you turn to SBS2 HD right now you'll see the W League There is little in the way of attendance as a reflection of not as much interest in the women's game. The players are largely semi professional. And with less squad depth there are more errors than a national game But what you see is a viable national league where players can perform on a central platform. The result is the Matildas are getting stronger as a result. The larger the game comes, the more money filters down to the W League and the baseline improves Nothing more is required for a second tier than this. Obviously spending above minimal is discretionary and the "to be" A League clubs at the top will be of a higher grade, but nothing higher than what you can see on TV right now should be mandatory I know what you are saying is largely true and I agree with most of what you are saying. However, you have to remember that even this 2nd tier is not looking at having pro/rel for at least 5 years. If that's the case there is no incentive to spend above the minimum. In a pro/rel environment you want those clubs who want to push for the A-league if they are able to spend more, then they should be able to spend more. You just want clubs to do in a responsible manner otherwise you will end up with boom / bust scenario's. Its so important that pro/rel is tied together at some point, otherwise none of this works. Watch what happens after 5-10 years of pro-rel it will be an unbelievably dynamic environment and all good for our football. My concern is because we don't have pro/rel and we will have to wait, then those years when the 2nd tier gets off the ground and when pro/rel is mean't to commence will be absolutely critical. You need the competition to be viable of course as you have mentioned but you also have to be able to draw enough people who want to see their team in this new national 2nd tier. If it can't draw more people then it doesn't become viable, full stop. My focus is always getting the best quality league you can and that requires talent and money. When you provide a good standard obviously lower than A-league but better than NPL then we will be moving in the right direction.
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bluebird
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+x+xI'm going to make another point to my reply above If you turn to SBS2 HD right now you'll see the W League There is little in the way of attendance as a reflection of not as much interest in the women's game. The players are largely semi professional. And with less squad depth there are more errors than a national game But what you see is a viable national league where players can perform on a central platform. The result is the Matildas are getting stronger as a result. The larger the game comes, the more money filters down to the W League and the baseline improves Nothing more is required for a second tier than this. Obviously spending above minimal is discretionary and the "to be" A League clubs at the top will be of a higher grade, but nothing higher than what you can see on TV right now should be mandatory You need the competition to be viable of course as you have mentioned but you also have to be able to draw enough people who want to see their team in this new national 2nd tier. If it can't draw more people then it doesn't become viable, full stop Agree with the rest of your post but not this point. The second tier can have crowds of zero and still be viable. Not much different to the youth league and the w league The second tier is viable by a minimal FFA grant from the TV deal (say $700k) and then sponsorship (say $500k). The capital of about $1m will come largely from government investment (such as Geelong, Canberra, Tasmania, Wollongong) who don't already have teams. With ties to a first tier it may also come from local or foreign owners It doesn't matter if nobody is watching it. What is important is that people watch the A League. That's the driver of the TV deal. Its important our derbies continue to be of good value and our big teams can shine. The only important thing is that it is financially viable Viability in football is a grey area anyhow because owners / investors always overspend. Give them $10m and they spend $15m. Give them $15m and they spend $20m The viability question is what happens if the owner walks. If the minimal FFA handout and inevitable sponsorship of being in a reputable league can pay the bills, then nobody goes under. This is perfect for P/R because who gives a shit which 12th team gets relegated. If everybody walks away after a club is relegated then the club still ticks along at the bottom of the table. And whichever club is promoted obviously gets more money so they wont be biting off more than they can chew (and having met minimal stadia requirements already). This is viability Your demands of a popular league may work against your wishes because it relies on a relegated clubs ability to maintain a professional budget and an audience The VFL, SANFL and WAFL are not second divisions. You'd be hard pressed to find any professional second division in this country. So why would football, a code that has traditionally struggled and has significantly less money, be the first? If this is a starting point for the league then it wont get off the ground The "5 years" cited for P/R is said by the same people who want a salary cap and a women's team. Its an uneducated throw away figure by an uneducated model A second division can replace the youth league with the same funding next season P/R can begin after 3 years (and that's because A League clubs need time to flush out the balanced system or they will be punished as a result of something they couldn't control) The important thing is to build the framework and pathway for both tiers and P/R from day 1. If we take the attitude of slap a league together and worry about P/R 5 years from now then it wont happen Second tiers are not popular (from year 1). They are not supported (from year 1). They do not have an audience (from year 1). Like the youth league and w league the only question is how we pay for it. Crowd obsession will kill it before it even leaves the womb
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RBBAnonymous
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@Bluebird All I want is to start the second tier to start off with a decent base. It has to be better than we currently have (NPL) and the gap between this 2nd tier and A-league should be bridged a lot better. I am all for viability in the 2nd tier, because that's an important aspect, I just want us to have a decent playing standard. In any case a lot of what you mentioned in your long post will take care of itself through general competition. Over the long term this dynamic will also stabilise between the two tiers. By that I mean you will have an excellent mix of "old A-league" teams in the 2nd tier and new teams. There will be a pattern of teams challenging for the top, being relegated and being mid tier. It will in essence equalize itself for lack of a better word and both tiers will attract similar interest, you want that framework or mechanism in place where it doesn't really matter who those teams are.
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aussie scott21
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I dont really trust anything Bossi writes and alludes to , but here is more content FFA pours cold water on hopes of promotion and relegation with a national second divisionA blueprint for a national second division and a big step towards having promotion and relegation in Australian football was unveiled on Friday before Football Federation Australia moved quickly to discourage the ambitious project. A 16-team professional competition entitled The Championship that would sit below the A-League and could be up and running as early as October 2019 was unveiled by the Association of Australian Football Clubs, which represents more than 120 National Premier League clubs. The proposal will be put forward to the FFA, state member federations and A-League clubs to gain approval for a national professional second division. ![Cross-division: Milos Lujic of South Melbourne and Joshua Brillante of Sydney FC in the FFA Cup semi-final. Teams from the NPL would be invited to be part of The Championship with the eventual hope of having promotion and relegation with the A-League.]() Cross-division: Milos Lujic of South Melbourne and Joshua Brillante of Sydney FC in the FFA Cup semi-final. Teams from the NPL would be invited to be part of The Championship with the eventual hope of having promotion and relegation with the A-League. Photo: AAP"As a football nation, we're not fulfilling the membership requirements of either FIFA or the Asian Football Confederation by not having promotion and relegation in place. A national second division is a pre-requisite of that," AAFC chairman Rabieh Krayem said. The Championship could invite former NSL clubs, NPL teams, new franchises and other institutions into the Australian football pyramid with a long-term view of gaining entrance into the A-League. A preferred model will see the inaugural 2019-20 season include between 12 and 16 teams, expanded to 20 teams by 2024. Then, it will look to included promotion and relegation from the state-based NPL competitions and begin talks for promotion and relegation involving the A-League. ![David Gallop: "Aspirations have to be tested against the reality of the local landscape."]() David Gallop: "Aspirations have to be tested against the reality of the local landscape." Photo: AAPIt is also hoped The Championship could play a role in A-League expansion with successful participants earning promotion into the top tier through on and off-field performances, similar to several MLS franchises in the United States. Under the provisional guidelines, teams will operate a 20-player roster within a salary cap of $1 million with a major emphasis on promoting youngsters. The initial plan is for each team to be comprised of at least 10 players under the age of 25 and only two foreign players who must be either from Asian Football Confederation or Oceania nations. Bidding clubs have to prove they can meet annual budgets of $2.5 million which includes an annual license fee of $150,000. They must play out of boutique stadiums with a minimum capacity of 3000 and enter women's teams. The bidding process will be opened in December this year and will run until May 2018 before successful applications will be announced in October 2018. Fairfax Media understands the majority of A-League club owners support the concept of The Championship and want a national second division but there is little support for promotion and relegation to involve the A-League in the short to medium term. The PFA has given its approval to the initial concept which could provide more pathways for players and coaches as well as expand the footprint. All stakeholders will await more detail before pledging further support. FFA chief executive David Gallop will engage the AAFC but was far from enthused about the proposal. "It is great for people in the game to have aspirations and because of the things that happen globally in football those aspirations are often very big. However, aspirations have to be tested against the reality of the local landscape and that unfortunately comes back to available funding and the impact on all the other parts of the game," he said.
FFA pours cold water on hopes of promotion and relegation with a national second division
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Barca4Life
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So everyone wants a second division except for the good ol' FFA, nothing surprises me anymore.
Our game has got no hope in the future with the current mob in charge.
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TheSelectFew
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aussie scott21
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As for the ACL spot I dont think it is so out there. India has Asian entry from 2 seperate comps. One is ACL and the other is the Cup. The only reason for this is because India has such a bad ranking.
The ALeague itself require 12 Australian teams to get 4 spots. Perhaps the Championships goal is to be the 4th spot.... instead of taking 1 of the 3 spots from AL?
It would also mean AL and Championship would both be considerd tier 1 comps.
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Arthur
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"Fairfax Media understands the majority of A-League club owners support the concept of The Championship and want a national second division but there is little support for promotion and relegation to involve the A-League in the short to medium term. The PFA has given its approval to the initial concept which could provide more pathways for players and coaches as well as expand the footprint. All stakeholders will await more detail before pledging further support."
So the only organisation outside of the PFA, A-League club owners, FFV, FNSW, AFC and FIFA that does not support in principle this plan is the FFA!!!!
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Arthur
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He Gets It...... http://footballcentral.com.au/dont-fk-it-up/#.WfMafWfvHAtby Adam Howard | 27/10/17 07:57 Today, the Association of Australian Football Clubs released their blueprint for a new league that they hope will act as second division in line with the current A-League being the first division. The competition will be known as The Championship. It’s as ambitious as it is overdue. After making strides in certain areas over the last decade, in other areas. the game has lagged.When the AAFC formed, they set out a list of objectives that revolved around building a more inclusive and viable system for all, with a big part of that being a creation of a second division. We now have an initial proposal with requirements, criteria and other areas covered that will allow people to see more clearly what their vision is. It’s a watershed moment in the game and could lead to the game being unified like never before.With anything like this, there will be a variety of reactions and opinions both for and against. Some people are excited, some skeptical. It’s good to be a little bit of both. If this works it could take the game to the next level but if it doesn’t, it will be added to the long list of setbacks the game has experienced over the years.Currently, the FFA and A-League owners are still at war. The threat of a FIFA normalisation committee coming in is still there, so the future of the current competition and the board is up in the air. The AAFC have made it clear that they’d prefer to be the second division and work with the FFA and A-League, however, this may not be an option depending on how the ongoing discussions play out.This leads to arguably the most controversial part of today’s release which has lit up social media. The statement claimed that they would be applying for an Asian Champions League spot for the winner of the Championship. Initially, the correct response would be to scoff at this. It’s unheard of to have a second division awarded a spot in continental competition based on league results. Reading between the lines, it is a shrewd play by the Championship.Application for a division 1 status could be an option for the organisation in a worst-case scenario. If the FFA rejected their proposal of being a second division, their hand would be forced. Branding the league as “The Championship” as opposed to “B-League” or “A2″ or any other moniker denoting a second or lower tier is again shrewd thinking. Naming the league The Championship leaves it open to any status change that may be necessary. It’s part of what appears to be “a prepare for the worst, hope for the best” strategy by this group.The initial plan seems to do a good job of covering all the bases and making sure that every stake holder has a voice. FIFA will be excited by the proposal of an independent body to run the league while the AFC will be excited by the commitment towards Asian players and furthering links between Australia and Asia. Clubs will be given a more viable market too work within, fans will have more games and teams to watch, players will get more opportunities, sponsors will have more eyes on their branding, broadcasters will get more content.Women and the smaller states will have a bigger voice in the game than they currently do. Looking at the make up of the current AAFC board gives an insight into the diversity and inclusion they are promoting. Every National Premier League is represented taken from clubs with various backgrounds and histories. Chairman Rabieh Kryam is from North Queensland, Deputy Chairperson Victoria Morton is from South Hobart, Treasurer Christo Patsan is from Hamilton in Northern NSW which should put to bed some criticisms of this being a ploy by traditional ethnic clubs to get back in to the top flight.The independent Championship committee will be even more diversified with a focus on having more women involved with a proposed 50/50 representation of men and women. Also every club will be required to field a woman’s side. Early signs that The Championship will be committed to creating opportunities for both sexes.The group have stated that player development is a priority. They have proposed that half of the 20-man squad be under 25. This will not only give more opportunities to youth players but it will also keep wage costs down. However, having such requirements can be counter-productive to the initial goal. A former professional player once stated that what helped him was having to force his way into the side, nothing was given to him. This is the exact reason why a second division with promotion and relegation is needed, competition. Competition is what drives innovation and development. Players and clubs should have to work for their positions.This leads to one of the more exciting aspects which is that the bidding will be open to all and sundry. There’s no hidden agenda, no cloudy criteria, every club or consortium will have an opportunity to apply with clear and transparent criteria. The eventual introduction of promotion and relegation will further bring the focus back to sporting meritocracy.Visa players will be limited to two and initially only from Asia or Oceania. This will be welcomed by the AFC who have wanted the A-League to adopt the 3 plus 1 rule in line with many other Asian leagues. It will also satisfy FIFA – who have, since they let us join Asia – wanted us to continue to help develop Oceania. Again noble intentions which may miss the mark. There should be at least 1 Asian/Oceania spot but another spot open to a visa from anywhere else. It’s the world game and I think that principle should be represented in the playing roster as well. Two or three visa spots is a good number to ensure there isn’t an over-reliance on visa signings.Ground requirements, ownership of intellectual property, squad limits and membership-based ownership are all excellent ways to keep costs down and increase revenue. A salary cap is something that will prevent clubs from overspending but t will also prevent the organic growth that is a crucial part of their plan. Financial relegation seen in leagues in Japan and Germany is an excellent way to keep clubs honest while not limiting the potential of individual clubs.Overall, the release of a plan is exciting for the game. It is also terrifying because anyone who has followed the game for decades knows that the game has a way of breaking your heart. Done right, it could be the tonic that the game has needed for decades. The closed National Soccer League and the A-League served the sport well but it’s time for us to take the next step and really become a football nation. October 2019 has been the suggested kick off date and between now and then a lot can happen, amendments made, targets changed. The most important message for the men and women of the AAFC is “Don’t Stuff it up”.
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aussie scott21
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+x2nd div will either be sanctioned or not. Non sanctioned could be called anything. One thing it will not be called is A2. A sanctioned league would imo be called NPL, then NPL becomes NPL1 or NPL2 etc and so on. Calling it A2 League or B league etc gives the assumption it is connected to AL. It would not be until there is promotion relegation. I cant see FFA scrapping the NPL name. There would be a chance of Australian Premier League. I think they would steer clear of anyhting with championship in it so there is no confusion wiith ALeague Champions (National Championship or Australian Championship and so on). 
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