Can we legitimately even call this comp national now?

I would argue that marketing of the league by trying to have big clubs is what is hindering the league rather than helping it. This has much more to do with the marketing budget of the FFA  being skewed towards the larger teams. This means that if you aren't a Sydeny or Melbourne based club you have to spend more  of your own money.

Give the marketing money to the clubs to spend it the right way. NBN is fairly friendly to the Jets and Mariners. However, the FFA marketing budget doesn't spend one cent with them - it just supports the Sydney and Melbourne clubs. What good is spending money on Fox Sports advertising in a region of 300,000 or 500,000 when you maximum reach is probably 75,000 and 125,000 people. You are missing 80% of what are small markets to begin with.

The FFA marketing budget needs to be shared between the clubs so that they can spend in a way that benefits their club - not to advantage their opponents.  

The A League doesn't have big clubs. It has small clubs that are gradually falling off the pace and middle clubs. Adelaide or Perth, for example, could afford the Sydney FC squad as it currently is

Imagine how big Sydney or even one of the Melbournes could be if they could spend more than $2.6m on the core of their squad

You are right that the FFA should market clubs equally. In fact I would say that the FFA (or independent body) are there to give all clubs an equal hand out (obviously proportionate for lower tiers) and market the league as a whole

The clubs are responsible for individual marketing, attracting sponsorship and commercial partners. And yes, some of the smaller clubs may not have the marketing budget but its not like they need a national campaign. Its obvious who should be following the Mariners or the Jets

As for Friday or Saturday night games, its important the league puts its best foot forward and showcases the best the league has to offer to a national audience. That's just the reality of it. A big source of shared revenue is the TV deal and that wont come from Mariners vs Adelaide

Big clubs aren't necessarily "geographically big" they are resource big. We have seen that any club can get an investor with a bit of loose change and suddenly they are a trend setter. If CCM or NCJ managed to do this then they'll be the must watch teams hogging the Friday and Saturday night spots. The teams that contribute the most need to be front and centre for the league to grow. The "who" is up to them

I thought the game was a good example of how the salary cap is hindering the league. What should be the big games, SFC/MVFC/WSW/BFC are let down by a lack of quality and the hype and occasion often turns to niggly, over-physical contests that don't have the quality to match the occasion. When MVFC came out firing and Sydney fought back, you kind of got a sense of how good this game can be but in the end it deteriorated because of the lack of quality. The quality and the league isn't really being pushed by the big teams if you know what I mean....it needs a bit of an arms race.

I don't think the league has got to the level of quality that will see it take a quantum leap in public interest and it is partly the salary cap and partly resources in the game, at both 1st tier and 2nd tier, that will generate a higher level of player development. Sydney is a pretty good example of how it could be but even then, the game has so far to go. It is both frustrating and good that we have so much potential. This game was both frustrating to watch but exciting to imagine how good it could one day be, the Sydney and Melbourne derbies also have so much potential that is a long way from being realised because of the salary cap and lack of resources.

@Eldar,

The game last night was a reflection of the respective coaches, and why they should be nowhere near the Socceroos job. Both have a high priority of results with wearing down opponents, even though in SFC's case, their cattle are superior to the league. Their niggly culture is a vast step down from when BR were at their peak, and won title and fair play awards.

What has gone missing from the A League over the last couple of years is the realisation that the show is between two teams contesting a game for the entertainment value it elicits for the neutral observer. The toxic  vibes from the FFA, Socceroos right down to the ball boy incident w/rt Adelaide earlier this year needs to be eradicated.

Hopefully the first step in this has been the appointment of Van Marjwick, something that the FFA have done well.

Incidentally, the work Arnie did with CCM was good, suggesting that he should be more suited to the Junior Socceroo teams rather than the Firsts. Some people/coaches just can't get theirs heads around the top job, even though they perform admirably in junior roles, see the Peter Principle.

It never was lol. The FFA Cup is the only national competition.

Spot on, the Newcastle / Hunter region is to the best of my knowledge the only part of Australia where the media has always given Football equal coverage to other sports... from NBN to the Newcastle herald to there radio stations .... the Coast radio stations by and large get behind the Mariners ... 

Between us we have a population of 800K with an expected population within 20 years of over a million.and both teams enjoy the highest percentage of crowd to population in the A-League.

People live in a bubble if they believe fans watch football to see big teams play.
Fans watch footabll to watch their team or a team they enjoy watching.I can tell you categorically that i never turn on the tv to watch big teams play.
I hate watching SFC ,because i don't like the club and the way they play doesn't make me want to turn on the tv.
Eventhough i dont like MV,in the past they have played good football,so i would watch them.
Unfortunately this year most teams are playing a lot of rubbish football.So for the first time since I started watching HAL games i am regularly missing games ,including that rubbish team i support.
Maybe my attitude is similar to that of a lot of other people.
Ratings are down and it has nothing to do with big teams or small teams It' has a lot to do with rubbish football and the enthusiasm vacuum created by FFA .
If SFC is a big team then what proof do people need that nobody gives a rats about big teams.Especially those from big cities.

Its a majority thing, not an all or none thing

The big teams by definition have more supporters so the majority tune in to see them play. When they are successful and performing well the majority of fans are engaged. When they are shit kicking at the foot of the table the majority are disengaged

Newcastle have had a ~2k increase and Brisbane have had a ~5k decrease

Not only that but we have seen small teams turn out their biggest attendances based on touring bigger teams with just 1 player

Sydney FC are not a big team by any stretch of the imagination. Adelaide or Perth could easily afford to field the exact same squad. But the potential is there for the majority of fans to see football clubs the size they have never seen before, and this will offer smaller teams some good touring team games to attend

And there will always be the core support such as yourself who are only there to see their team play, but the value of the A League will always be driven by the wants of the majority

@bluebird,
Ratings are driven by people watching game obviously.If one team has twice as many supporters as another team,then they will have a greater impact on average ratings then a team with less supporters.
But the big city focus is clearly flawed.SFC shows that.MC shows that.
BR at it's height had people tuning in from outside Brisbane to lift ratings .If it had been Newcastle,I am sure the impact would have been much the same.
Having more Sydney or Melb teams will not make any significant contribution to ratings unless they bring in many new supporters.But i doubt they would bring in any more than a Canberra,Tasmanian or other regional team.

But neither of these are big teams. Adelaide and Perth can easily afford to field the exact same squads. We haven't seen the impact of big teams because we haven't seen any

What we have seen is disproportionate support which means attendance wise and ratings wise some will fair better than others

You are right that extra Melbourne and Sydney teams wont achieve much. All they will do is canabalise support from existing markets and would be a detriment. But the growth of the game does depend on 4-5 big teams driving the value of the league upwards

Because the audience for the A League is so small and it only really had two years on FTA it is hard to gauge the broader appeal of any one team. I don't recall BR at their prime bringing in big away attendances and there were no FTA ratings at that point

I do agree there is a lot of bullshit about what small teams can expect to get in a proper structure even if they are bottom table each year. Wellington, Central Coast and Newcastle who were consecutive years without finals managed to get attendances of 6k, 7k and 8.5k. And the ratings still would have fallen in what were normal for Saturday or Sunday afternoon games. Not this 0k crap like some people pretend. And this is what you are saying - Aussies love sport and most want to see their team play

But CCM at their worst also managed to get an 8k average (much higher) because of a good figure against a touring WSW. So you can imagine in a league where we have 4-5 big clubs those figures I mentioned above will be higher, as will those for the bigger teams as they will attract a new audience (SFC did it with one player)

This game will not grow either from a popularity sense or a footballing sense until the shackles are removed from our biggest teams

100% agree. This season I have tried to watch all the Jets games because at the moment they are the most entertaining. Many of the other matches have been painful viewing so this season have really cut back on watching HAL. And we are not alone as majority of the people I know who were enthusiastic in the past are complaining about how poor the quality this season is and have stopped going to games (I called the low Melb Derby crowd 2 weeks prior due to conversations with MV supporters).

The "big teams" argument is just  a distraction from the many fundamental issues the HAL has, bit like the "we are being held back because we arent on a commercial FTA network" tripe many were peddling previously. 

The only difference I see from previous seasons to this season is the introduction of Var, it's still the same 10 teams as 5 years ago, there has never been any promotion of the league in 4 years. To have such a dramatic drop in ratings almost half is purely down to Var introduction.  

Up until this season, i would watch a minimum 4 games a week, since var , I have gone down to 1, only my own teams matches and even that is hard to sit through. 

BB and others.... I copied this post from Big Soccer a large USA Football site.... am wondering if it has any merit to where we are placed now...

The link address is http://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/why-media-markets-are-crucial-to-the-mls-expansion-strategy.2080676/

From Deloitte's 2018 Football Money League report...
Revenue Sources for Top 20 Teams in Europe:

• 45% broadcast rights (i.e. TV, radio, live stream, etc.)
  
• 38% commercial (i.e. jersey/kit and other corporate sponsorships)
• 17% matchday (i.e. ticket sales, concessions, merchandising)

Revenue Sources for MLS:

• 10% broadcast rights
• 40% commercial
• 50% matchday

Let that sink-in. Half of all revenue in MLS comes from the gate and concessions stands on matchday, yet only 17% of revenue for the big European clubs comes from those same sources. They make the majority of their money on broadcast rights and corporate sponsorships which are closely aligned. The more people that watch your team on TV or internet, the more a company will pay to put their brand on your jersey and the like.

So, although MLS is doing pretty well at the gate (now 6th in the world in both aggregate and average attendance), the key to future revenue growth is all about getting people to watch on TV. The current national TV contract with ESPN/Fox/Univision expires in 2022, thus the rush to expand to 28 teams by then.
Note that the value of the MLS national TV deals tripled in 2015 because the league vowed to do the following...

1. Add a 2nd team in NYC, the nation's largest media market
2. Replace struggling Chivas USA with a new team in LA, the nation's 2nd largest media market
3. Add at least 3 teams (Orlando, Atlanta, and eventually Miami) in a massive and rapidly-growing southeast region that previously had ZERO teams
4. Add another team in the heavily-populated Midwest (turned out to be Minny)

That's certainly not a coincidence. And although Nashville is a relatively small market, it's a rapidly-growing city in a region that is still significantly underrepresented in MLS. So, that pick was all about establishing a true national footprint for TV as well.

In short, media market size and national footprint are key metrics and arguably more important than whether a team can draw 18,000 or 25,000 at the gate. For example, LAFC certainly won't lead the league in attendance this year due to their small stadium. But they will be featured on national TV as much as any other club in the league. Again, not a coincidence.

I'm pretty sure the FFA Cup match between South and Sydney rated higher than the Big Blue.

@MediaweekAUS 2h2 hours agoMore#TVratings Saturday STV #ALeague #FoxSports#WELvADL 33k

Saturday STV #ALeague #FoxSports#CCMvBRI 41k

So it isn't just attendance figures then.

Amazingly consistent results, the most exciting team(Newcastle) draws as much as the most boring teams(Sydney apparently), the "biggest teams" draw as much as the smallest teams.
There are no big games drawing the 120k or even 150k of seasons past.

The FFA model is working perfectly. Any team can win it, though it will most probably be Sydney again. 

Roll on the ACL.

Keen for the ACL.

It did..and probably more then a fair chunk of matches the past 2 months.

Vive la Cup

So the jury's in.
This season has proved that the quality of the product has virtually nothing to do with the interest it generates from the viewing public.

This season, we have had the best quality football in the short history of the A league in terms of players, coaches, tactics. That hasn't translated to a large upsurge in ratings.
The Eurosnobs and the casuals and the theatre goers don't care for good quality football. They want different things.

We need to work out what they want and deliver that if we want to increase ratings and crowds.
Eurosnobs maybe want big names, or pro/rel, or traditional NPL clubs, or maybe they just won't watch an Australian League at all.
Casuals and theatre goers seem to want big name players, and/or to be 'sold' the product a la Big Bash style. These people need the hype and marketing that only a cashed up campaign can deliver. FFA really missed the boat with Channel 10. They needed their FTA partner to commit to the marketing blitz that they needed similar to the Big Bash. Until that sort of thing happens, we won't see the increase in ratings.

Mark

Me thinks until we can form some kinda peace deal between the many factions then we are doomed to stay where we are...

So many factions many with self entitlement issues, many believing they have the answer ....

The first year we go to a FTA TV network we start arguably the biggest internal civil war since 1955 .... 

Me thinks we need some kind of structural revolution ... the State Feds are well past their use By Dates .... FFA have challenges many fail to recognise the difficulty of.

Into it all comes on his white charger Steven Lowy and by the Gods of Olympics he has been an abject failure .... he has totally lost the room ....

Our position is mixed with some things done well .... some things never attempted ... some things done so bad its hard to imagine someone is being paid to do it ...

Arguably the worst aspect of FFA management IMO is they have totally lost the conversation and instead of leading us down a road even if we don't like the road we have a plan... but Steven Lowy is incapable providing the leadership qualities to take Football forward.

My biggest hope of the FIFA visit is they can stop the war and get us all kinda back together instead of teh game in many ways tearing itself apart.

TheSelectFew posted a little ways back after I posted those wanting revolutionary change from FIFA will be disappointed ... anywho he said I don't think anyone any longer expects revolutionary change...

I hope over time he is wrong and we get some major change at the governance and management levels... because as i see it anyone today who puts up an idea is torn to shreds by some faction or other so we need a strong Football group who can command not demand respect develop systems for us to grow.

As an aside and maybe news to some, FFA biggest previous revenue earner in the media deal prior to the last one i.e. the 40 million 4 year deal was my understanding 25 million Socceroos and 15 million A-League... with the AFC taking the media rights to most meaningful international matches FFA's ability to fund itself hugely effected ... the point I constantly make is I think the A-League should be a separate entity and run itself but we still need to ensure FFA has funds to do its job... and without being able to sell its media rights then funding national teams is a monster future problem 

The Gods of the Olympics.

ffs

Best quality football? This has seriously become an annoying throw away line now. Every year no matter what you get people desperate to convince the rest that we are watching good stuff. Lets be honest its garbage. Often 1 of the 5 weekly games is of a decent standard, sometimes we get lucky with 2 of the 5 being ok. The bulk of the games are trash and the public knows it. In terms of this season you would be watching the games that feature the jets and sydney..this past week a prime eg of that vic v syd and abu dhabi v jets were the only 2 remotely entertaining games. Less said about the rest the better.

We are watching absolute gutter shite. The A-League is not good quality. You just need to look at those who dominate the league, where they have come from to see that.

As of this moment we have the poorest collection of local Aussie talent in domestic football history. whatever decency this league has left is being carried by foreign journeyman.

Also our commentators need to stop confusing game speed with game quality, lost count of the amount of times they trot out the "this a fast paced contest" line, a quick game means nothing if every 2nd player is botching the ball.

The ball control is no different to State 1 on a muddy pitch on a pissing down day in August.

Calm down, It's OK