The FFA knew they couldn’t have it both ways you can promote a sport just on pay T.V only something like 72,000 Australians have pay T.V.

WA may be the biggest state - but in population terms it's smaller than Melbourne! Most of that population is in Perth, and they struggle to support their A-League franchise.

So the big questions are - (1) who would invest in another franchise in Perth when the first is struggling with numbers, and; (2) is there any populated area outside Perth that's capable of supporting a franchise (and 3 - who would invest in it?)

Listen even if crowds of every team was at 5000 average and all club were doing poorly the FFA got $120-140 Million for 4 years of coverage from foxtel for rights of the A-league.

That is enough money there to fund the A-league, socceroos and youth development for a decade. The Salary cap in the A-league is like 2.25 million so I’m sure money isn’t the problem.

Plus the FFA gets a lot of profit from socceroos home matches and MV and SFC is also reaching high numbers of fans along with WPFC which is resulting more money for the FFA I’m pretty sure they get a certain percentage of $$$ from clubs.

Also the sale of players is producing a lot of money in the short term generally speaking.

As long as the FFA has plenty of money the A-league will be fine.

The FFA imo selling all T.V rights to foxtel has resulted in the poorer fan fair and thus has resulted in them being granted large amounts of capital not the clubs.

If it was on free to air fan numbers would be up and sponsorship dollars would be up. However the FFA wouldn’t be as cashed up as it is now however clubs would be more financially stable.
The FFA knew they couldn’t have it both ways you can promote a sport just on pay T.V only something like 72,000 Australians have pay T.V. that isn’t nearly enough to support a whole code that’s un-established.
Imo I think they are doing a good job they ensured they have the capital to continue growth in the sport for many years to come. However they have also isolated there market making it harder for clubs in the competition to promote their team.

It's a lot more than that.

... as at 30 June 2009, these three operators had a total of more than 2.3 million household subscribers to pay TV broadcasting services in Australia up from 2.2 million household subscribers at 30 June 2008.

Well said Erebus.

Expansion is necessary and will continue to improve the league as it opens up the field for senior players to return, allows youth players a higher goal to acheive as wel as bringing some big names to the country (Fowler, York) to promote the league O/S.

We hear alot of talk about expansion making the pool shallower but it has actually depended it. Look at the players it has brough us in Williams, Daal, Culina, Calavera and Bridges. Not to mention the return of the likes of Burns Coyne and Sterj.

once we hit 14 teams we should stop, focus on creating a B- League non promotion and FFA Cup. 10 years on bring in promotion relegation and see how it works.

Hey Ben I said second team in WA. I didn't say 2nd team in Perth. The Southwest of WA is growing I just bought a place down in Mandurah. The Peel Coast will be to Perth what the Gold Coast is to Brisbane, What the Central Coast is to Sydney. There is land sales, houses everything its growing very rapidly. Your only 50 minutes to Perth by train. I wonder is they could convert the local stadium (Hyundai stadium) into a Football Specific stadium to hold between 10,000-15,000. It is not like they don't have the land.

As for struggle to support for Perth Glory they do pretty well but it can be better. For starters the matchday experience needs to improve. Don't take the reported attendance figures as gospel. I believe they are a lot higher than people believe.

Finally I never set a time limit as to when to expand again in WA but it does tick me off that the west misses out or even considered. Hey AFL might put a team in the Peel Coast one day. Don't discount that fact.

I not fuss if its 5 years, 10 years or 20 years it will happen eventually and so it should. WA should in time get a local rival and you can count on me being a minority investor if this should happen down the track. By the way if they do get in they will probably be playing in A-league 2 to start with.

Listen even if crowds of every team was at 5000 average and all club were doing poorly the FFA got $120-140 Million for 4 years of coverage from foxtel for rights of the A-league.

That is enough money there to fund the A-league, socceroos and youth development for a decade. The Salary cap in the A-league is like 2.25 million so I’m sure money isn’t the problem.

Well said Erebus.

Expansion is necessary and will continue to improve the league as it opens up the field for senior players to return, allows youth players a higher goal to acheive as wel as bringing some big names to the country (Fowler, York) to promote the league O/S.

We hear alot of talk about expansion making the pool shallower but it has actually depended it. Look at the players it has brough us in Williams, Daal, Culina, Calavera and Bridges. Not to mention the return of the likes of Burns Coyne and Sterj.

once we hit 14 teams we should stop, focus on creating a B- League non promotion and FFA Cup. 10 years on bring in promotion relegation and see how it works.

I’m almost 100% sure FFA got 120M on their new deal with fox sports that goes until 2013.

but anyway look I’m just saying when it comes to money there it a lot of it.

If you cover the salary of players, stuff and stadium deals that’s pretty much 80% of your club cost. Any money you spend on jersey design you get back in jersey sales, any money spend on grass roots you generally get back by selling one or two players plus profit.
The 20% is travel, equipment and administration which is normally covered by money is received from sponsors

The A-league doesn’t pay their players large sums of money I’m optimistic when it come to the finances of the league. As much as I’d like to see the A-league on free to air I can say wit some level of confidence that a long as the A-league is on foxsports money won’t be a problem

I repeat - the average A-League franchise costs around $8m+ to run for a season. The new tv deal is expected to provide around $3m per season per franchise. That leaves a shortfall of $5m for each side. Obviously you have to factor in sponsorship, corporate packages, etc., but in simplistic terms the shortfall is the equivalent of an average crowd of almost 18000 paying an average of $20 per ticket.

With the new deal I would hope that pretty much all the franchises will be trading close to profits - of course, any further expansion will mean a reduction in tv money to each franchise and they spread the pool thinner.

I'd run the 2nd division (without promotion as you suggest) but monitor sides in that division and any which are performing well on AND off the pitch (crowds, finances, etc.) should be invited into the A-League proper a lot earlier than 10 years. Running things this way ensures the financial stability of the league a lot more effectively than either shutting off promotion, or allowing clubs to be relegated when they are financially sound, etc.

oh hell no it that is clearly un-sustainable and shown by the USL who for many years survived on a "business plan" of rapid expansion and living off the licensing fees of the new franchises that came (and went more often than not)until the advent of fox soccer channel and the ussf trying to make attempt of div2 otherwise it was a dead league

For the record, the majority of clubs playing in "my" 2nd division would be pre-existing clubs who already have the required facilities and structures in place, therefore wouldn't have anything like the start-up or operational costs associated with the A-League. One of the reasons for the no promotion/relegation 'by right' would be to 'protect' the A-League against clubs it felt weren't acceptable (for whatever reason). In other words:

(a) The 'old' clubs benefit from being part of a national competition which, unlike the NSL, would be administered and managed by skilled professionals.

(b) The A-League franchises benefit through being able to scout players more effectively due to the raised standard of the 2nd tier competition (the best of the rest condensed into a dozen sides instead of a hundred).

(c) The FFA benefit through having a 2nd tier competition on a national level, a better chance to monitor referees and potential new franchises for the A-League, and a way to put pressure on existing A-League franchises ("slip up and we'll give that lot you're licence")

(d) Players in Australia benefits through having a far higher standard of competition for non-A-League players, and having more professional spots open to young players, thus more encouragement to get involved with the game on a youth level.

In short, nobody loses.

No benjamin. There is a loser under your predictably preferred 2nd division. A big loser. The biggest.

You can keep on calling your beloved old clubs "pre-existing clubs", but the fact remains, in the VPL at least, ALL of the "pre-existing" clubs are mono-ethnic clubs. Clubs that draw support form single ethnic communities. Every one of them.