FFA Congress Review Working Group Thread


FFA Congress Review Working Group Thread

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Updates seem pretty thin. 


FFA Congress: What is it and why does it matter to Australian football?

Amid cricket's ongoing dispute and recent coverage of pay deals in the NRL and AFL, it's easy to overlook the fact soccer is having its own boardroom dramas.

It can even be hard for soccer fans to be completely across the impasse on the Football Federation Australia (FFA) Congress, which has carried on for months, given plenty of the attention has also been focused on A-League expansion, a national second division and the recent free-to-air TV coverage announcement.

But now the world governing body could turn the sport in Australia on its head in the coming months.

FIFA is set to get directly involved in the dispute and could even rip apart the FFA board before the end of the year.

What is the FFA Congress?

Right, let's start from the top. The Congress helps decide how the sport is run across the country.

It elects the members of the FFA board to three-year terms and approves changes to its constitution. Think of it as the FFA's equivalent of the AFL Commission.

State and territory associations, as they have for many years, still wield a lot of power. They have nine (NSW is split into two) of the 10 seats on the current FFA Congress.

All parties agree this overall number needs to expand. In fact, the number of seats of similar bodies overseas run into the hundreds.

What is the dispute?

Perhaps unsurprisingly, there isn't a consensus on how expansion should happen. Both the FFA and A-League clubs (through the Australian Professional Football Clubs Association) say they want to see fair representation on the Congress, but disagree on what that looks like.

FIFA would like to see various stakeholders represented on the Congress, such as women's soccer, futsal, referees, etc.

State and territory associations would argue they look after all these stakeholders in their respective areas and don't want to see their own power diluted.

The A-League clubs want a greater say in how the game is run, with one eye on an independent competition.

An FFA proposal rejected by FIFA would have increased the Congress from 10 seats to 13, giving A-League clubs three (up from one) and one to the Professional Footballers Association (PFA).

It would have also involved a second stage where all the groups would come together to decide how the Congress should expand again in the future.

The FFA says its proposal was supported by 80 per cent of members (being eight of the 10 seats, but rejected by the clubs and Football NSW), enough for the resolution to pass.

But FIFA's Member Associations Committee said the process, "does not reflect an appropriate representation of all stakeholders".

What happens now?

The issue is set to heat up later this month, when a joint FIFA/AFC (Asian Football Confederation) "mission" comes to Australia to get the parties to come to an agreement.

In a statement released by the FFA on Thursday night, chairman Steven Lowy said: "We look forward to working with FIFA and AFC representatives over the coming weeks."

"As I said in March, FFA wants to see an expanded Congress for Australia that reflects the way the game is evolving in this country but also protects and promotes the interests of the whole of the game."

Is there a deadline for this?

Mark down November in your calendars.

There first needs to be an Emergency General Meeting (EGM) to get the expanded Congress passed. Then an Annual General Meeting (AGM) is needed by the end of that month, that will also vote on two FFA board positions.

Perhaps even more importantly, FIFA's Member Associations Committee says if an acceptable expansion of Congress was not in place by November 30 it will recommend a "normalisation committee" intervenes.

A "normalisation committee"? What is that?

It doesn't sound like the sexiest of phrases, but it had newspapers and websites frothing over the past few days.

Words like "overthrow" have been used, with Argentina and Guinea cited as recent examples of when FIFA have had to directly intervene.

In the case of Argentina, the normalisation committee was tasked with being "in charge of running the daily affairs of the Argentine Football Association (AFA), (and) revising the AFA statutes".

FIFA could disband the FFA board, set up an interim one until the Congress issue is resolved and then set up a new board.

For a sport that has stymied its own growth in the past because of poor governance, it is the very last thing it needs.

But if Congress expansion isn't settled soon, Australian soccer could be kicking another own goal.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-08/ffa-congress-what-is-the-stoush-about-and-what-does-it-mean/8689444



 




Edited
7 Years Ago by inala brah
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july 19. SBS

As the battle to make Football Federation Australia a more democratic and accountable organisation inches towards its conclusion this month, two words come to mind when thinking about the reform models put forward so far: woefully inadequate.

In April FIFA tasked an eight-member working group with fixing the FFA's broken governance structures.

The working group includes four representatives of the state federations, two from the A-League clubs, one from Professional Footballers Australia (PFA) and one FFA board member lead by London-based lawyer Judith Griggs as the independent chairperson.

The group has been ordered to deliver its proposal to FIFA and the AFC by July 31, which must be submitted by September 7 at a special general FFA meeting.As it stands, the FFA’s Congress -- its ‘supreme and legislative body’ -- contains 10 members: one from each of the state and territory bodies (including Northern NSW), and one representing the A-League clubs.

With the subordinate state bodies controlling all but one vote, the FFA has effectively been able to get its people “voted” on to its board, subverting a key principle of good governance.

“The current FFA board is no less ‘stacked’ than the former Soccer Australia board was,” whistleblower and activist Bonita Mersiades told me in 2016, as the depths of FIFA’s concern over the FFA’s governance practices came to light. “It’s simply stacked another way.”

In response to FIFA’s grievances, the FFA originally proposed a 15-member model which would give the A-League clubs more power, but leave the states' voting block still in charge.

The counter-offer from the clubs and the players’ union, the PFA, removed this power from the states. But with just 16 members, it leaves Australia a long, long way behind the rest of the world (as does the FFA’s updated 16-vote offer).

Consider the case of Norway. Its congress contains around 350 members. It is a set-up designed to inspire confidence in the organisation’s democratic practices. And it is hardly an outlier.

Camille Boillat and Raffaele Poli analysed the governance structures of a range of member associations (MAs), and published their findings in 2014’s Governance models across football associations and leagues.

Every European MA they studied had a minimum triple-figure membership. The congress of Italy contains close to 300 members, while those of Germany and France each had over 250.

Even Europe’s smallest congress, found in Switzerland, has over 100 members.

Japan, an emerging football nation and a good point of comparison for Australia, has a 48-member congress. It’s a similar story in Brazil.

Only New Zealand Football, with seven members, had fewer members than Australia.

Special Interest Groups

Size isn’t the only area where the proposed reforms are lacking.

In other MAs, special interest groups have strong representation in their national congresses.

These groups typically include, at a minimum, ones representing players, coaches and referees. Often there is a member for the futsal community, and another for women’s football.

In South Africa, members representing doctors, intellectual impaired footballers and army footballers are amongst 12 such groups given a spot in their congress. England has a place for a member representing racial equality.

Elsewhere, you can find representatives for supporters. Indeed, the EU has called for fans -- who, lets face it, the game would not survive without -- to have a greater voice in their MA’s congresses.

But the lack of such groups has always been an issue in Australia.

Under the Soccer Australia model, only referees were represented. The Crawford report, which reviewed the old system and laid out principles for the FFA to adopt, called the lack of such representation a ‘critical’ concern, and called for futsal players, women, players and coaches to also have a voice.

Instead, none got a voice, making the Australian congress a rare example where special interest groups are entirely voiceless.

The proposed reforms barely go far enough in addressing this. While players and female footballers will get a seat, all the other groups will be kept silent.

The inclusion of interest groups not only gives a voice to more people involved in the game, but would dilute the power of the two main voting blocks, the states and the A-League clubs.

State and Territory Power

Whatever model is adopted, the power of the state will be diminished. But none of the proposed reforms address the overrepresentation of the territories.

In the days of Soccer Australia, each state/territory received a number of votes based loosely on their size and participation base. It wasn’t perfect, but the Crawford reforms suggested a similar model.

The model chosen by the FFA saw the one-state (or territory), one-vote system used. Although common in other Australian sports, the voting scandals at FIFA have highlighted how problematic such a system is.

Smaller states can be easily bought off or won over, giving them undue influence on the affairs of the organisation, and thus exposing the congress to corruption.

Not even the Senate gives the territories the same voting rights as the states, yet in the FFA Congress, the Northern Territory and ACT are as powerful as New South Wales.

Meanwhile, Tasmania, with barely two per cent of the country’s population and less than two per cent of registered players, has the same sway as Victoria.

Unfortunately, the clubs and PFA have not tried to do away with this system. Unsurprisingly, neither has the FFA.

FIFA’s working group hands in its solution to the impasse between the warring parties at the end of this month.

If it is serious about reforming the FFA, it might consider scrapping the models currently on offer and implementing something in line with world best practice.


https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/are-the-ffa-reforms-a-missed-opportunity



 




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I think the writer, did not quite get it right.

My understanding is as follows.

Last year FIFA warned FFA to get its house in order.

The clubs, FFA& PFA & State Febs could not agree.

FIFA set a deadline it passed.

FIFA ordered a working committee be formed.

The working committee had to meet and all agree on new governance by 31 July, overseen by FIFA & AFC where final approval would in time be needed.

The working committee, present to FFA by 31 July their recommendations.

FFA to implement the recommendations and have them voted in by 31 October.

If FFA refuse to implement the recommendations OR the working committee cannot agree, then FIFA will appoint a Normalisation Committee.

If I am right we should know the recommendations early next week.
Edited
7 Years Ago by Midfielder
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NSL & AL = same thing
FFA & SA = same thing


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Given the fact that even the smallest congress in Europe, Switzerland, has over 100 members, and even nearer to us, Japan has 48 members, there's just no way that the FFA is going to getaway with trying to push a congress of 12 or even 14 members.

Everyone may as well get used to the idea that the congress will have to be large, much larger than people have been saying in public, and it will have to represent every single stakeholder in the game.

Lowy is still trying to finesse things so that he can control everything through the 8 smallest state federations.

Forget about it, there's just no way FIFA will accept anything small.

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3






Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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Midfielder - 23 Jul 2018 12:15 PM
I think the writer, did not quite get it right.

My understanding is as follows.

Last year FIFA warned FFA to get its house in order.

The clubs, FFA& PFA & State Febs could not agree.

FIFA set a deadline it passed.

FIFA ordered a working committee be formed.

The working committee had to meet and all agree on new governance by 31 July, overseen by FIFA & AFC where final approval would in time be needed.

The working committee, present to FFA by 31 July their recommendations.

FFA to implement the recommendations and have them voted in by 31 October.

If FFA refuse to implement the recommendations OR the working committee cannot agree, then FIFA will appoint a Normalisation Committee.

If I am right we should know the recommendations early next week.

yep they are the deadlines i've seen around. 

the normalisation committee at nov 30 is new news to me

also, who uses faxes anymore??  i'd like to see those minutes.  i think we as the footballing public deserve to see the progress being made.   

 




Edited
7 Years Ago by inala brah
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TheSelectFew - 23 Jul 2018 12:19 PM
NSL & AL = same thing
FFA & SA = same thing

Mate in all honesty that is beyond silly....there is no doubt we need to change things but hand on heart not the other thing, to compare FFA to SA and say they are the same actually weakness arguments against FFA as they can use that argument as extreme and lacking research.

SA could not even afford to fly out the Socceroos, where do you wanta start, with the travel agency, St George Bank on Sunday,. almost no media and what media there was covered riots, no broadcast deals etc etc....

The answer is YES YES YES to change FFA governing procedures and operational models, But it absurd and hurts the arguments for change to say FFA & SA are the same beast in different clothes.



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inala brah - 23 Jul 2018 12:52 PM
Midfielder - 23 Jul 2018 12:15 PM

yep they are the deadlines i've seen around. 

the normalisation committee at nov 30 is new news to me

July 31 Griggs reports to FIFA (not FFA)

Sep 7 , I believe, is the date for notice if an EGM is to happen by end Oct, again so that any changes are in place for the AGM in November.

Gyfox loves that kinda stuff, he'll no doubt dot the i's 

Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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Basically an entirely new thread talking about .... the same things lol.

So either this working group has been doing fuck all so there’s been no leaks or Ms. Whiplash runs a tight ship?
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inala brah - 23 Jul 2018 12:52 PM
Midfielder - 23 Jul 2018 12:15 PM

also, who uses faxes anymore??  i'd like to see those minutes.  i think we as the footballing public deserve to see the progress being made.   

FIFA uses faxes. I remember talking to staff at the PFA a few years back and they said FIFA have communications regulations that stipulate important information like this must be faxed. I'm guessing this regulation came about because you can easily shred a fax. An email or digital file can be sitting on servers all over the place for ever.
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Buggalugs 2.0 - 23 Jul 2018 1:07 PM
inala brah - 23 Jul 2018 12:52 PM

July 31 Griggs reports to FIFA (not FFA)

Sep 7 , I believe, is the date for notice if an EGM is to happen by end Oct, again so that any changes are in place for the AGM in November.

Gyfox loves that kinda stuff, he'll no doubt dot the i's 

You got it right as I understand.

There is the possibility that FIFA will require changes to what the Working Group puts forward but hopefully Griggs will have steered it to a conclusion that is fully compliant with the FIFA Statutes and follows the guidance in FIFA's Standard Statutes.   

The only other comment that I will add is that the EGM is for the existing members who are the only ones who can legally adopt the recommended changes to the constitution.  Once the change has been adopted the FFA then proceeds on in accordance with the new constitution.

For the purpose of definition the FFA is the body that FIFA accepts is to govern football in Australia and by the FFA they mean the Congress, the Board, the Administration and the Independent Bodies i.e. Disciplinary body etc..



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inala brah - 23 Jul 2018 12:52 PM

also, who uses faxes anymore??  

Best Korea



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-26/australia-uses-faxes-to-talk-to-kim-jong-un/9089794


Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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Many organisations including government consider Fax secure and email insecure, that’s why they still use it
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Hopefully this gets sorted before the a league season starts
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Melbcityguy - 23 Jul 2018 3:13 PM
Hopefully this gets sorted before the a league season starts




Closed HAL is failing with 10 teams
Closed HAL failed with 11
FFA forced to try a 12 team Closed HAL thatll just create 2 more mid table also-rans
and still this weird 16-team panacea gets trotted out. 
Theres a sticky for this nonsense
https://forum.insidesport.com.au/1617388/The-Aleague-Expansion-Thread

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Judging by the FIFA letter to FFA ,there is almost certainty that a new govenance structure will include many more stakeholders.
FIFA have named the supporters group,women,npl clubs ,AFTC and experts as almost certain additions.A strong emphasis has been placed on women participation.
Based on all that the Lowy era of control is looking to be tenuous.A plus 20 seat congress seems a minimum.More like 30 i would guess.
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@ crimsoncrusoe

And the bigger the congress the more likely the professional game gets to run itself 👍
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Waz - 23 Jul 2018 6:18 PM
@ crimsoncrusoe And the bigger the congress the more likely the professional game gets to run itself 👍

So long as City F****** Group and Ledman Group don't run it for themselves.
 I would rather still have oversight to stop the excesses that overseas owners would do to the league. 
Plus if there is oversight, we can get youngsters into matchday squads for ALL teams.

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@ Paul01

That’s what should happen - the ffa set the parameters which will include key things such as pro/rel, number of teams, etc big after that - let’s the clubs at it
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7 Years Ago by Waz
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Buggalugs 2.0 - 23 Jul 2018 1:47 PM
inala brah - 23 Jul 2018 12:52 PM

Best Korea



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-10-26/australia-uses-faxes-to-talk-to-kim-jong-un/9089794

so FIFA and North Korea... sounds about right.

 




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NZ went through a reform like this about 5 Years back. They went from a 7 member congress expanding up to 28 I think, or a view to arrive at 28 voting members once all the Associated Stakeholders became organised.
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If each state got 3-4 seats in a vastly expanded congress, would the incumbents still maintain control?

What I'm saying is, how would the states allocate additional seats?
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Paul01 - 23 Jul 2018 7:19 PM
Waz - 23 Jul 2018 6:18 PM

So long as City F****** Group and Ledman Group don't run it for themselves.
 I would rather still have oversight to stop the excesses that overseas owners would do to the league. 
Plus if there is oversight, we can get youngsters into matchday squads for ALL teams.

imo the only reason we are getting movement is because there are bigger players than the lowy family involved in the game now.  

i agree that we need to keep control of our game.  but the ffa does not offer that.  

doesn't the english FA still have a controlling vote in the EPL even though it is independent?  i'd like to see and independent body run the AL, but with the controlling votes sitting outside the clubs or the ffa - with the pfa/aafc etc.

 




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inala brah - 24 Jul 2018 9:40 AM
Paul01 - 23 Jul 2018 7:19 PM

imo the only reason we are getting movement is because there are bigger players than the lowy family involved in the game now.  

i agree that we need to keep control of our game.  but the ffa does not offer that.  

doesn't the english FA still have a controlling vote in the EPL even though it is independent?  i'd like to see and independent body run the AL, but with the controlling votes sitting outside the clubs or the ffa - with the pfa/aafc etc.

Dunno.  But I think there is generally a consensus that the time for oligarchs is past and some wonderful inefficient and dysfunctional democracy gets a go.  It has its downsides because it brings both stability and infighting, capital and poverty, quality and stupidity and lots of things that ultimately take you to a brighter future. 

Whatever falls out, there has to be checks and balances.  The game has grown (kudos) beyond the vision of the few that got it there.  Get the structure right anywhere and ultimately you get a durable and upwardly mobile organisation.  It will never climb as fast or as high as under a dictate, but it will never fall so low or catastrophically either.

I keep saying I don't care if Lowys stay or go.  I mean it. It should be irrelevant.  If the structure is correct then the vision comes from the bottom of the pyramid, the masses. The functionarys should be the ablest you can attract, no matter their lack of vision.  In fact that last bit helps.

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Judging from the tone of the article, the author's prob an AFL fanboy sh1tting himself at the thought of ⚽ in this country no longer being run like his beloved eggball...


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BA81 - 24 Jul 2018 1:03 PM
Judging from the tone of the article, the author's prob an AFL fanboy sh1tting himself at the thought of ⚽ in this country no longer being run like his beloved eggball...

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BA81 - 24 Jul 2018 1:03 PM
Judging from the tone of the article, the author's prob an AFL fanboy sh1tting himself at the thought of ⚽ in this country no longer being run like his beloved eggball...

Nah he's a football fan and commentator on the ABC radio coverage of the game. 
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I’m sure anything under 20 members won’t cut it for FIFA.

If I had to choose I’d propose something liked

10 - A-league (1 each club)
1 - FFA
1- A-league ceo
2 - Pfa
1 - National team coach of the time
1 - national technical / football director
1+ - physios and medics (1 per division linked to top flight)
1+ - referees (1 per division linked to top flight
2 - supporters/fans groups
0.5 - each team in second division
2 - npl clubs / aafpa I think is their name
1 - community / grassroots group
2 - women’s
1 - Tv deal / Broadcaster of the time
1 - futsul

4 - NSW
4 - Qld
3 - VIC
2 - WA
2 - SA
2 - NNSW
1 - ACT
1 - TAS
1 - NT


That’s a minimum of 47 votes on congress at any given time, nobody has a majority. The game runs itself




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The FFA don’t get a seat - they’re not a stakeholder
GO


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