If we had Smith and Warner i think we win this test. Having an opener who can not only see out the new ball but average 40+ was great and Smith needs no introduction. We'd have gone into the 2nd innings with a 100 run lead at least.

I don't think India have done anything great, their batting has been below par and we have been throwing away wickets to nothing deliveries.

The problem is why does a Big 3 Nation even need Smith and Warner to win at home ? Kohli did nothing for India this test. India are without P Shaw and H Pandya. Kohli did nothing for India when India beat Aus in India... England just lost Cook, and won in Sri Lanka 3-0...

India don't even need Dhawan in the squad! They dropped Nair after a tripple century.  The dropped B Kumar. They dropped U Yadav. Jadeja and Kuldeep are not even able to make the team. S Iyer, S Gill, M Pandey, V SHankar, I Kishan are all over with the A team.

Not to mention that I suspect that you are somewhat overestimating the usefulness of Warner and Smith on a grassy pitch given their recent performances this year in South Africa (and England previously).

Every single player in the entire Indian team is replaceable. Every single one of them. Pant - drop him Saha, Patel, Karthik, Iyer... It just goes on and on. 

So how has CA got itself into a position, where they have no idea who the horses for courses and what the replacement ranking order of players is?

The problem as I see it is that sure, Smith is a fantastic test batsman, a once in a generation player for Australia, for sure, but... is he a silver bullet... or will the bleeding simply continue with him back like it was in all Aus's away games and when SA beat Aus in Aus the last however many times... 

India globally are a better team than Aus, Smith and Warner or no Smith and Warner... how did it get to the point where India worry SA and England more in SA and England than Australia? Because I am not trying to upset you, but I am telling you straight up, the Saffirs, and the English, and now the Indians do not respect Australia on grassy pitches. No Asian team respect Australia in Asian conditions. All Australia is feared for is roads... but not by the Saffirs... and Bumrah may still bring India on top vs Aus on a road!

How did it get to this point? And what is CA going to do to fix it? Because thinking Smith and Warner solve the problem, is imo - very naive.

Aus has become the worst of the Big 3... no doubt... Why? It has nothing at all to do with Smith and Warner... Have a look at the results over the past few years with them in the team...

Remember when SA lost superstars like Steyn and Abbott, they brought in stars like MMorkel and Ngidi... Why is Australia no longer like this? You used to be... And you can be damn sure that India most certainly is now in batting, spin, seam and wicket keeping. They have a glut of experienced and successful international cricketers on standby. STANDBY. Their depth is utterly incredible...

Oh i know we are shit for all the reasons you mentioned, but full strength we still win this test.

I am far from convinced. It is on a grass pitch. Warner and Smith don't beat teams on grass. Look at SA and England. Aus do not win on grassy pitches unless it is a day nighter...

Its the pitch that has beaten Aus... You prepared a pitch that suits the team that was in SA and England more this year than at home...

Maybe you're right... and it will be 4 years before India are back in Australia... but I see Aus getting thrashed in the Ashes even with Warner and Smith back...

I don't think this pitch was doing much though, the first 2 days beyond about 5-10 overs the ball did nothing. It was just a clinic of poor batting and i might add Smith and Warner still have good averages on grassy pitches.

Well their 40 averages in England are more than respectable, but pale compared to the 70 and 60 averages at home...

And what happened here?

1	Aiden Markram	South Africa	8	480	60.00	63.66	60	3
2	AB de Villiers	South Africa	8	427	71.17	65.19	60	4
3	Dean Elgar	South Africa	8	333	47.57	38.81	43	2
4	Quinton de Kock	South Africa	7	223	31.86	57.47	27	1
5	Cameron Bancroft	Australia	6	223	37.17	51.74	36	-
6	David Warner	Australia	6	217	36.17	68.67	31	1
7	Tim Paine	Australia	8	215	43.00	47.36	23	2
8	Hashim Amla	South Africa	8	196	24.50	38.58	22	-
9	Mitchell Marsh	Australia	8	176	22.00	46.81	24	2
10	Faf du Plessis	South Africa	8	175	25.00	59.73	25	3
11	Usman Khawaja	Australia	8	165	20.62	53.40	28	-
12	Vernon Philander	South Africa	7	155	31.00	50.65	15	3
13	Shaun Marsh	Australia	8	147	18.38	35.85	20	-
14	Steven Smith	Australia	6	142	23.67	45.81	19	2

I don't want to get into a flame war - I'll stop, you're clearly a passionate fan. I get that. I am too. But I don't see how a Big 3 team is so reliant on two players performing every series to win.. England isn't. India isn't. What happens to Australia when they lose form? Get injured? Retire?

England beat India by dropping one of their motm with another getting injured... Root did nothing all series. And Cook didn't fire until the series was already won.. He was so bad against the Indian seamers, he retired. 

I simply don't get how a big 3 team can be so reliant on 2 people... and expect to win... whether they are available or unavailable. That's like NZC levels of dire...

Watson had very impressive figures for an all rounder.

It is interesting  to see these others for comparison purposes. Mitch Marsh is struggling in comparison.

Watson's main issue was not being able to bowl and remain injury free for sustained periods.

Given Maxwell already has a Test century and can bowl, I'm not sure why he is out in the cold? 

I beg to differ. 

India have played well on a pitch distinctly different from their home decks. Even more impressive they have played well in the First Test of the  series in unfamiliar conditions.

Ashwin has apparently studied Lyon a lot in order to improve his bowling on Australian pitches. His bowling in Adelaide has been better than most visiting spinners for some time.

I've  seen many of the current Aussie batters struggle in the Shield at Bellerive, which is  either  flat, two paced or doing a bit for pace bowlers.

It is unlikely that Aussie domestic batters who  play on pitches that have the highest runs per wicket in Tests in the world, and who average less than 40 in FC domestic games, are going to perform well against world class attacks. It will be an enormous task to improve enough to win games. Our bowlers have had small totals to defend.

Well made point, Paddles.

I have been impressed by Bumrah in Adelaide.

Either Paddles or Baggers told he was India's top pace bowler. I've seen him a bit and thought he looked okay, but nothing special in previous Tests in Asia.

He gets  terrific zip off the pitch from a really short, jerky run up. He is also bowling consistently faster than Cummins in this Test. Most of his balls have been in the 140s.

I'd surmise his unusual action makes him a bit harder to pick up for opposition batters.

This was rectified.

Welcome to the forum, Test Fan.

From all the cricket I've watched Australia play and lose in SA and Asia this year, I don't think we could  chase 200 with any confidence.

Agree apart from poor replacements everywhere.

What sort of field would you have advocated instead, CS?

Are singles as important if there are two right handers, or two left handers at the crease in upsetting bowling attacks?

Hardly any of our current batters have FC averages over 40!

I'm not criticising parents encouraging children, but children learn by playing against each other for  sustained  periods  with no adults around. I don't see street football (soccer), cricket, Aussie rules played anymore - apart form school playgrounds.

I see more basketball.

Interesting.

Also, it is interesting the context you've used 'ubiquitous'.  

Good to hear.

Do they have less adverts?

Erratic!

Welcome to the cricket forum, Sasha.

A single does not change the line a bowler has to bowl, but it is still a different batsman and it also releases pressure on the batsman to score. This effects some batsman more than others but very few players are happy to just bat out over after over without scoring.

Paddles, it is no secret Australia is struggling to produce batsmen. It is an extremely bad problem, bowling is not too bad, but batting is woeful. In that context losing the best two players is a massive blow. You are right it should not be a massive blow to a country that at one stage could have filled two test teams with quality test batsmen. Having a quality batsman at the other end also takes a bit of the pressure off the lesser batsman and helps them.

I do not rate the Indian batting too highly. Kohli is obviously one of the best few players in the world at least, Pujara is a high quality test match batsman, Rahane is a good test match batsman. However Vijay is experienced but only okay opener and I don't rate Rahul or Sharma as test match batsman at all. Shaw is injured and would have improved the openers but India have a line up of good test batsmen I am wondering why they are not playing ahead of Sharma.

Still India's batting line up is far superior to Australia's in this test match.

Does anything really believe we can win it from here?

Agree superior to Nine.. got stale last few years. Commentators got old and boring. 'Fraid just as many adds. Fox have no adds during play. 

Who are your fave coms on Seven and Fox. I like Vaughn, Gilly, Howard, Huss and Guha on Fox.. Ricky, Brayshaw on 7.. yet to hear Katich, Blewett or Brad Hodge. 

So what is the answer? Where are all the quality batsmen that can play on all surfaces. That by the time they reach national level they have a solid technique and mental tuffness. These types appear to be scarce as hens teeth these days. 

 Things turned sour in 2001 when we hit a road bump in England and we are still hitting it.  We have lost 36 more matches in England compared to when we play at home. Why now are we humiliated every time we tour India and other Asian nations. We have won a measly 26 out of 95 matches in India since 1947. Did the BCCI always produce dust bowls to thwart western nations.  Now were are not on the same page when touring SAfrica. They spanked our bums last year after we spanked theirs the tour before. comments

Heh - I could have gone with unanimously - but I was actually thinking of all the forums and social media I read where the vast majority of users are in agreement with a few significant opposers - ubiquitously actually works in this context... :P Especially when two of the forums are Australian based with some neutrals :P

Yeah I said he is. And he is. He is terrific bowler, not ideally suited to any one type of conditions, but useful everywhere.

I firmly believe that he is the best limited overs bowler in the world for a seamer, and tying with R Khan if spinners are included.

But Bumrah has never bowled in an Asian test at all :P 

 He was somewhat of a surprise selection in SA. But by England where he missed the first couple of tests, he is imo well on his way to being the attack leader.

His test career start is very impressive.

Yes the BCCI produced dustbowls to thwart western nations. They had the spin quartet, they were hardly going to give them grassy seamers.

But they produce Gabba like bouncy pitches in India when Bangladesh tour to take the spinners largely out of it :P

I've told you the answer that I firmly believe in. You don't like it. But I have observed it massively with India and England. When England pull a guy out of county like Pope, its typically a disaster. But when they pull a guy from the Lions, like Foakes or Curran, it is far smoother sailing. India's squad of internationals is just - I believe - possibly unheralded. Aus in the late 1990's of course had a plethora of gifted cricketers, mostly batsmen - but the sheer size of these Indian test and limited overs squads, and the amount of replacements that they have for every single position - I believe is an international first. But I do not believe it is a fluke. It is based on A tours and a captain who wants horses for courses.

I firmly believe that the answer is Australia take the A programme more seriously and prioritize it over domestic and have constant winter A tours. That is what India and England do. It is what NZL has been doing of late (but NZL lacks the money to commit as much as it would like - the test team barely gets a winter tour). Looking at the Shield games for who scored a ton in the recent two rounds to make test selection, as Australia has been doing of late is no way to select. In the old days - it was average 50 for several seasons with 20 tons - then you may get a lookin if there was an injury... that was smarter selecting and selecting from Shield worked well then. It does not now.

Send A teams to England - see who swings it well, see who plays swing well. Send A teams to Safrica, ask for spicy decks, see who plays seam well, see who bowls it well. Host teams in your backyard on typical test Aus pitches - see who scores tons vs the visiting bowlers, see who gets wickets. Send A tours to India and Sri Lanka. England sends their A team India, Sri Lanka, UAE, WI - everywhere - the A team tours all winter every winter it seems. The Indian A team tours winter and summer. Their domestic comp is on now... their A team has been in NZ for a month now!

England and India have a massive advantage as they put so much of their vast resources into A programmes. Australia could readily find a corporate sponsor independent of the player's revenue share and put the resources into it. But it means more players out of shield, and more expenses in funding the winter tours. But I believe that the results will speak for themselves.

In NZL - we had a few domestic guys starring, after playing India A - some continued to star, some did not. This includes some recent and fringe internationals. It gives the selectors a much better indicator to go by...

Just look at what India did here: instead of having its test players play domestic in India - it sent Shaw (would be playing this test but injured), Vijay, Rahane, reserve keeper Patel, Vihari (lost test spot to Rohit) to play for Ind a A as a warm up and to guide selections. 

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/19014/scorecard/1164220/new-zealand-a-vs-india-a-1st-unofficial-test-india-a-tour-of-nz-2018-19

hardly any is not the same as none

we could have a top 6 with fc averages over 40, only 2 are in the team

Marsh will play the knock that keeps him in the side but doesnt win the game

No heroics from Head today. Got a steepler from a bloke that stands 6.9. Only manages a feeble prod.
No chance now. Dunno bout you but I dont have confidence in Marsh.