So stop attacking other posters, decentric.

I don't want to argue with him. Decentric is allowed his views as we all are. He might be a lot more knowledgeable about football than I am and I am willing to take my hat of to that and respect his in depth knowledge which I do not possess as a Football layperson.

I don't agree with him that today's NT is better than the GG, but who really cares? At least he tries to back it up with the science.

Mouflonrouge is an obvious troll and an aggressive spammer. His recent torrent (absolute torrent!) of gratuitous negativity has ruined a number of threads and made them all but unreadable. Look for yourself! A quick look through this thread alone ought to show you what kind of person you're defending.

This isn't like quickflick at all. I may have overreacted to a quickflick's post in the past, but at least I can recognise he's a genuine and worthwhile poster. This guy actually wants to turn you off. 

I agree but then you'll notice I never talk to the Mouflon/Aikhme.  If other posters did the same the thread wouldn't devolve into a Cypriot wankfest like it has.

And traffic may be down but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  The forum used to be inhabited by dozens of infantile 14 year old clowns in a non-stop meme fest / gif posting / pyramid quoting / m80 shit show.  IMO it's better now than it has been for a long time.

And just for shits and giggles.  Just about any socceroos squad pre 2005 would flog the current squad. 

It wasn't me that turned the thread into a wankfest.

If you go back, it was in fact I who was trolled by sub007. I didn't bring up Cyprus. The comparison was made by him. I just replied to destroy that delusion as well.

Plus, I told others before. If you think I am Aikhme, then I suggest you take it up with the mods and owners so they can investigate. I have no problem with this at all.

I agree on your last point. The current socceroos would get flogged by any pre 2005 Australian Team. You hit my agenda right on the head.

I'm not being negative. I am just being honest.

The results is what provides the negativity. I am just less willing to sugar coat it and more willing to get to the bottom of it.

I also have no desire to turn you or anyone else off, and will generally respect your opinions, even if I disagree.

I would defend your right to hold your views no matter what, every single day and twice on Sunday. that is because you add to this rich tapestry in your own way, and without dissent, it would be a very boring forum.

The point that Robbos makes well, is the tangible improvement of Asian football. It hasn't remained static.

Most people on this forum I would surmise agree with you about how good the  GG are compared to the current Socceroos, based on where they played their club football in Europe. Even when they did  play for bigger clubs, many were not starters and in on out of the teams they played for.

What they didn't have was  holistic education. The Aus players do now. That is where all players are similarly educated in the same football methodology. This enables the players to work more cohesively as a team unit.


In a thread I started on the Palestinian game and I will pursue with the Syrian match, Arnie uses 6 different formations in the one game plan. Pre 2005, they would only use one.
Their football education  was ad hoc.

i disagree with you on this issue, Mouflon Rouge, but I  strongly uphold your right  to express it, mate.

Fair play to you.  

I used Quickflick as an example of two posters respectfully disagreeing with each other, but maintaining a friendship.

I had no idea you had disagreed with him!

Yes we do agree and many other things.

There are more that unites us all than divides us. One is a love for this game.

I look forward to reading your Syrian analysis.

Good on you!

I'm definitely not aware of you derailing threads.

What can occur on this  forum is a majority castigate a person for  holding a different  view .

The poster Adrthro comes to mind. We don't know what he was banned for and many disagreed with him vehemently, but recently it seems many posters  miss his input and thoroughly enjoyed his posts!

@Decentric, totally agree we were weakened by moving Milligan into defence. Jurman would have been a better option and then Milligan  could have stayed in midfield pulling the strings. Luongo is a pale shadow of his former self. I am speculating here but I think not even getting one minute at the WC in Russia has messed with his head considerably and it is affecting his form with the national team. I also am not a fan of Irvine as a defensive midfielder - his ball distribution is poor. I prefer Irvine further forward. I also agree that Leckie and Kruse are better defensively than Ikon and Mabil but the latter now offer much more in attack. I'd stick with Ikon and Mabil and rely on a stronger midfield defence and control room. This leads me to my next point, that is, we are really missing both Jedinak and Mooy, and what they offered in the middle of the park was a very solid package of muscle, defence, interceptions, tempo adjustment and goals. Still, after this Syria match I am now more confident Arnie is the man to take us through the next round of WC qualifiers.

We did well to get the result. The pen was clearly a square up against Milligan's handball.

Would start Giannou but Macca did ok later in the match. 

I'm just wondering if Mabil, Rogic and Ikon will be able to play the 7 matches. I suspect Rogic must be rested/rotated for at least 1 game. 

That second half by Australia last night was pretty much the tactical standard that Arnie needs to hold up as an example (except for 10 minutes in and around the penalty). We controlled the game, even though not always in control of possession ... the only "chance" outside of those 10 minutes was the handball by Milligan (and there was no pressure on him at the time, so wasn't even Syria forcing a mistake ... I also see these sort of handballs frequently dismissed in the EPL). It was good to see that Australia could play a more open game, and that they could also transition quickly. This was epitomised by Grant late in the second half, ball was turned over, and the ball was played out to Grant. He went forward with the ball and played a ball forward when inside the Syrian half (against Jordan in a very similar situation Grant hesitantly took a half touch forward before playing it back to Sainsbury ... yes Jordan sat deeper, but still had chances to go quick in transition after Jordan launched a rare attack, but he looked like he was under strict instructions not too move it forward quickly ... he played much more his natural game last night).

Why I say tactically it was a good standard last night was that chances were created (Arnie can't help that we don't have the quality to finish, all he can do is get the team creating chances from tactics / style of play), I thought although Luongo was far from great that he and Irvine controlled the game well in the second half ... both sat too deep for me, but this gave Rogic more room to act as a creative midfield (something I thought he did well at, and looked more dangerous in that role than as an attacking mid / false 9). I'd persist with Irvine and Milligan as the screening CMs. The defence held up well (considering Degenek on the wrong side, and Milligan far better in-front of the defenders).

Overall if I was a coach I'd be pleased with that game. A few mistakes need to be cleaned up, but progress has definitely be made since the Jordan game. Would be having a word to a few players to try get them playing a bit better too.

I thought Maclaren played well, prob the best he has for Australia he did everything right except finish his chances ... which unfortunately is his main role. I thought Giannou added more to the attack ... he comes to the ball, flicked on balls, looked more comfortable when swapped roles with Mabil or Ikon (being the fresh man you could see he understood at times he had to cover them if they lost the ball in an advanced role ... and unlike Maclaren he happily stayed out wide afterwards if needed for a bit).

Ikon is young so you'd prob have words about looking up a bit more when on the ball (also a bit slow to pick a pass at times).

Mabil needs to be aware of his defensive duties (but Rogic for me has really stepped up in this role of late, and gives Mabil a bit more of a license to stay forward).

Luongo needs to trust himself more, he had some good touches and played a wonderful ball to Grant in the first half. But we didn't see enough of that. Get the feeling a real confidence player, so coach needs to get onto that as we need him firing on all cylinders (even if just as sub role).

Irvine looked better on the ball, but he still looks a bit unsure with his passing. Struggles to play the long cross field ball, and most the time (from memory) plays the simple ball. Not necessarily negative but you'd probably want to see a bit more from him ... in the second half I thought he had a great chance to shoot when just outside the box but played a sideways ball instead.

Defence I'd just tell them to be a little better switched on, especially with their marking and communication ... as I tell my defenders, an attacker makes a mistake the team may joke about their stuff up, but a defender makes a mistake and most the time it results in a goal.

Ryan needs to step up more so too ... made some good saves, but a few of his clearances poor and probably needs to be more dominant in the box (think he is a bit too used to the EPL where very crowded boxes and he has Dunk and Duffy clean up most aerial threats).

😂🤣😂🤣😂

Japan or Uzbekistan next round (most likely Uzbek) then most likely UAE. 

Things seem to be falling our way.

This is about Australia vs Syria, could we stick back to the topic please?

Result was key either way we would have finished second place as Jordan were only interested in the draw.

The game was very direct, we lacked composure in possession especially in the first half and invited reassure from Syria, there No.9 was quite a handful! Hopefully we improve our possession play as Japan or Uzbekistan wont be as generous.

Irvine and Luongo really struggled as the main guys when we had the ball, at least when we went forward to the final third we looked forward and created chances but no way Syria were as displined as Jordan were to us but still we combined well and JMac should have done more with his chances he had.

But my stars from today were Ikonomidis, Rogic and Mabil, all three combined very well for the goals and chance creation and gave us the x-factor which was badly missing, it seems like Rogic is playing better with Ikon and Mabil around him and not surprised and some his combinations were fantastic too with them involved.

Throw in Arzani and potentially Borello, Folami, Italiano and Najjarine in the next few years we got players that have the effective technical attributes in breaking down compact defences in Asia which historically we struggled with, a far cry from the Kruse, Leckie, Burns, Oar era where we struggled.

What’s exciting is they are 23 and under so the new generation is showing not only do they have that bit more quality but they in a good age going into 2022 and beyond.

Japan or Uzbekistan will be tough but I think the front trio will be crucial towards us getting through, we just need to play with more control in possession a shame Mooy isn’t here for that.

I think Bernd Stagne must have watched too much footy when he was in Australia. Syria's attack last night (and against Jordan) resembled a footy tactic to me.

Bomb it long inside the 50 and hope that the tall full forward either brings down the ball, or creates an opportunity for the small forwards off the pack to crumb and kick a goal. Syria forgot to deploy the small forwards though.

The tactic works really ineffectively in most footy games (maybe better at the lower levels), and works as an even less effective tactic in football.

i thought grant was terrific for me he was the man of the match 

Barac4life  totally agree on the positive combinations between  Mabil, Ikon and Rogic, especially the latter two. And yes, we are missing Mooy but also the steel of Jedi!

Good post Barca.

CanberraHarry
@Decentric, totally agree we were weakened by moving Milligan into defence. Jurman would have been a better option and then Milligan  could have stayed in midfield pulling the strings. Luongo is a pale shadow of his former self. I am speculating here but I think not even getting one minute at the WC in Russia has messed with his head considerably and it is affecting his form with the national team. I also am not a fan of Irvine as a defensive midfielder - his ball distribution is poor. I prefer Irvine further forward. I also agree that Leckie and Kruse are better defensively than Ikon and Mabil but the latter now offer much more in attack. I'd stick with Ikon and Mabil and rely on a stronger midfield defence and control room. This leads me to my next point, that is, we are really missing both Jedinak and Mooy, and what they offered in the middle of the park was a very solid package of muscle, defence, interceptions, tempo adjustment and goals. Still, after this Syria match I am now more confident Arnie is the man to take us through the next round of WC qualifiers.

I made mention whatever thread upon Sains suspension Jurman should be in there straight up imo.
Alas wrong call there to me GA but he's the boss and has everything at ahnd with his assistants so who am I to judge.
I'm trying hard to support Mass and he did improve this game some but imo he could have been so much better.
He did cut off some ball 1st half but he's lost a bit of his go forward attack. Hopefully he improves but yes Milly could have been a better choice.
I'm so over Kruse/Leckie anything is worth seeing Mabil/Ikon developing despite the lack of experience for thats where they will learn the added craft of defending.
Missing Jedi and his experience is expected but Irvine can learn the job if needed to as well.
I see him as our central worker attack or defend especially his aerial prowess.
Despite missing some good key players that will compliment the promising young guys once back I'm actually refreshed by the effort they are putting in.
Were all very passionate and impatient, for many this is their 1st big NT tournament with the added pressure being defending Champs.
Every opponent is lifting against us as you would - how do you think the Mabils/Ikons/Grants etcetc are feeling.
Grant, what a couple of first NT games he's had, he's no technical genius but he's delivering better than experienced Risdon easily.
So we got errors here and there what do you expect but the boys have fight ! they know what this means.
As mentioned the Asians/ME have moved on, many have more resource/more Gov support/no AFL/NRL/good leagues, football is huge in their countries whereas we have been in some Lowy/AL "limbo" world that hasn't helped us move ahead anywhere as good as we expect.
They have stepped up - we have a little but worse we are not a full strength.
New coach that people expect miracles because its Jordan or Palestine and last night Syria.
We should actually be surprised we have made the R16 under the circumstances for I haven't watched any useless minnows of the past.

he may have made that call knowing Sains was out and why not, he caused us concerns near on every time and unlucky might I add.
A couple of close offsides we could have been down 1or2 thankfully not.

Harry, I certainly believe that Milligan's best position is d.m. Syria tried to take advantage of his lack of height at the back, it seemed. However, Jurman's weakness when playing a high line is his lack of pace. Syria might have been able to exploit that by changing the team lineup, depending on players they had available. 
I would have no sympathy for Luongo if he was dropped from the Socceroos squad. He has stated publicly he is not willing to leave England. The demands of the Championship are not conducive to international football. I reckon he's one of the players the GG have in mind when they criticise the current generation for being unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices. 
I completely agree that Irvine is unsuited to playing at d.m. (as is Luongo). Irvine is a hard-working c.m. 
I agree we are missing Mooy, Jedi not so much. 

Mounflorouge we beat two teams of three in the group stage. Considering that we have a handful of first team players out what would you say are some of the positives we can draw from the last three games? If we were to improve in certain aspects of our play which do you beleive those to be?

Following on from LFC.

Consider we are missing a EPL player, a Bundesliga player, a J-League player and two SPL players (not to mention the recent retirement of our all time leading scorer). Not many teams in Asia would be able to function with such big outs.

Also consider that teams like Germany used the 2012 European championship as a chance for their young players to get experience for the 2014 World Cup. This tournament will give many young players their first experience in a major tournament (Ikonomidis, Maclaren, Mabil, Giannou, Grant, Jeggo, Amini, all weren't part of the recent WC squad and all can be part of our next qualification process and WC). That they've progressed since their first game (only played three) is a great sign for a youngish team, and as stated shows the Australian spirit of not giving up, and working hard to get the result (prob lost a bit of that steel under Ange's tenure I thought).

I've been impressed with Grant. He gave us that attacking impetus from full back while Behich was floundering in the first half and hardly made a mistake in the whole game. We also looked much better against Jordan once he came on. Maybe Risdon's injury was a blessing in disguise. 

I agree. I think Risdon is better on the ball, but Grant is better at crossing, getting back and forth, and providing that forward run (and timing that run). Defensively probably similar, Grant seems to have a bigger engine to get back though.

It's interesting,

If everyone was fit and healthy and we had our best starting 11, the GG was a really good team. However in that team we lacked depth

*After chipperfield there was an ageing lazaridis
*After emerton there was only sterjovski
*After neill and craig moore we had tony popovic,ljubo milicevic, tony vidmar, michael beauchamp, 

That team had weaknesses when we were unable to field our best 11. Now I feel that we have a lot more options when we have injuries, which we most certainly have had in this tournament!

Strikers were probably where we had our most depth ... Viduka, Aloisi, Kennedy, Kewell ... we would give our left leg for even one of those players now.

I dont understand why you bring a tall specialist CB (Jurman) and then play your DM in that position against a tall specialist striker. Maybe Jurman bottles it but I dont think he could have done worse than Milligan last night. It also totally ruined the midfield balance. 

Luongo and Irvine were bad but not more shit than most of them in the first half. Improved in the second. I would persevere though as they have quality but yes Irvine further forward.

I think that billiard table pitch was so fast it was messing with their passing particularly in the first half but it was perfect so no excuses there.

Look at the players who played at the World Cup in 2010..(Which was our golden gen at it's end and nothing close to 2006 or 1997,  look at the amount of players playing at a high level with continental club experience. I I know you are all for being positive with our new era etc and I share your optimism, but I feel you are looking far too favourably on our crop and hyping up our competitors. No doubt Japan, Korea, Iran are steadily improving. If anything Saudi have gone backwards since the 90s. The rest of the nations are nothing amazing and if anything the closure in the gap can be argued to have occurred due to our regression. I do think we will bounce back and be able to form a golden generation again (Which would probably win a game at the World Cup)

Our best players in 2018 play for EPL sides fighting to stay up and not be relegated + mid table Bundesliga. Or in leagues where generally the sides they play for are not powerhouses of those leagues.  Our best players in 2010 played for teams fighting for Europa League spots in the EPL, Serie A, and playing for sides in the top half of the table in their respective leagues + playing European football (Incredibly important)

We had 8 players in European competition in 2010 (2 or 3 in 2018), Schwarzer made the Europa League final, Cahill made the R32 of Europa league and finished 8th, Palermo finished 5th just missing out on a UCL spot, Emerton finished in the top half of the EPL table, Kewell and Neill played in Europe knocked out by Eventual winners Athletico Madrid, Wilkshire played European football with Dynamo, Holman was playing for one of the top sides in the Dutch league and played European football, Chipperfield played for the best side in Switzerland and played Europa League. 

2009-10
Schwarzer - Fulham 37 games (EPL)
Cahill - Everton 33 games 8 goals (EPL) 
Emerton - Blackburn 24 games (EPL)
Bresciano - Palermo 21 games (Serie A) which earned him a move to Lazio in the following season
Wilkshire - Dynamo Moscow 32 games (Russia), including Europa and UCL action
Holman - AZ(Netherlands) 30 games including Europa League
Kewell - Galatasary 17 games 9 goals (Turkey), 9 games 4 goals in Europa League
Jedinak - Antalyaspor 28 games (Turkey) 
Chipperfield - Basel 26 games (Swiss), 7 games in Europa League 
Garcia - Hull 18 games (EPL)
Grella - Blackburn 15 games (EPL)
Neill - Everton 12 games (EPL)
Rukavytsa - Netherlands then loan to Belgium where he scored 4 in 9 
Kennedy- scoring freely in the J - League 

Look at the depth we had. 

Sorry just can't compare even 2010, let alone 2006. 

Sure we have a uniform curriculum now but what have our results at the World Cup been since 2010? I do hope/expect we will be better come 2022.