Ridiculous how some want to toss the towel in because of the timing of P&R. How weak. Nothing will ever please these bitters.

However I think 2034 is about right.

Always said from the outset it will take a generation or two (from 2005) for the mono ethnic clubs to get their act together and establish better broad base appeal. These ex NSL clubs are the key as, moving forward as football clubs rather than social community clubs, deserve a fair go in top flight only when they embrace all nationalities.

We'll know the time is right when tell tail signs appear that clubs like, say SM Hellas (as an example) decide do away with their committee / board being overwhelming of Greek origin.    

In the meantime.......................

honestly, i think its a storm in a teacup. deliberate ploy to get the fans outraged so the clubs sit up and take notice. 

Another slap in the face for nuvo nuvo nuvo new dawners in 2032.

-PB

Have been saying for a long time...
The 2nd division is more important that pro/rel, because it narrows the talent pool - BUT - 2nd division can never prosper without the prospect of promotion.  There's a hint in what the FFA has said (rather than Nicou's comment) - that further expansion to the HAL will be via promotion from a 2nd division, and I suspect that relegation won't come in for 6 years, at which point only the newly promoted sides will be eligible for said relegation positions until 2034.

Promotion and relegation is a long time away, and I have no problems with 2034 IF there's a clear plan moving towards that. 

Establishing a 2nd division with the medium/long term goal of incorporating Pro/Rel needs to come first.

A second division competition relies on the prospect of promotion to make it work - otherwise there's no incentive for investment.  You can't start a competition in 2020, but say there won't be any benefits to playing in that competition for another 14 years.

I don't think we'll have a 2nd division in 2020, and I think any implementation of a national 2nd division will be used initially for expansion rather than pro/rel. 

Agreed. It's absolutely nonsensical to have a second division with zero incentive. It will only further erode the purpose of a second division. 

I also agree that expansion of the A-league can/will occur via promotion of A-league 2 sides until that competition stabilises at a 16-18 team comp.

I still think relegation until 2034 is a nauseatingly long wait. It's unnecessary and seems rather arbitrary. What are they basing this on?  

Personally, I could see the following happen in an 'Ideal' world;
- 2 new A-league teams for 2020 and an independent 12-team A-league comp. 
- 2021 establishment of a 10 team second division with 2 promotion slots to the A-league [Inclusion of 4 new A-league2 teams via national competition of NPL sides to fill the vacated 2 slots each year]. 
- 2025 will mark the completion of A-league expansion to a 16 team comp as well as an 18 team A-league2 competition and the introduction of 1.5-2 relegation slots for each tier. 

There are still benefits in playing in a second division without P&R. Imagine being selected from all the NPL clubs around the country and/or new entities engaged to play in an elite condensed competition where payrolls are higher, professionalism / standard is greater and your club (and player) is in the limelight. That's something to aim for on its own. 

That deals with season 1...  How do you maintain interest in a second level national competition for the next 13 years?  

Depends what the strategy is Ben.

Maybe a new National competition called The Championship will demonstrate that its possible to grow and develop Clubs in an affordable and sustainable environment.

That we don't have to have "equalisation" policies.
That not every City, Town and State HAS to be in the First Division.
And maybe Franchises like CCM may see the benefit of moving out of the A League into The Championship for sustainability reasons?
Add to the story by telling everyone that The Championship model requires every team to have a senior Womens team in the Womens competition of The Championship.
And you might be on winner even without PR

Like the Tacos...  Why not both?

dont know if it's been bought up in this thread. 2034 is the date that franchises are granted participation in the a-league in their contract.  from what ive seen there is already provision within the franchise contract for p+r.  this was a requirement of participation within the AFC.  others in the ffa are already distancing themselves from the comments. 

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/ffa-attempt-to-clarify-chairman-s-controversial-promotion-relegation-comments

there is no good reason why p+r couldnt be running within a couple seasons if anyone was serious about it. 

let's not forget the requirements of the AFC. amongst other things is the complaint that a-league clubs dont have to worry about the club competition at home because of the lack of relegation.  this was a major issue when wsw won the champions league. funnily enough, our shit house performance in the champions league is probably hindering the push to p+r because the other AFC members have less reason to press us.

If the AFC disqualified the A-league from future ACL comps, would this fast-track 2nd div & pro/rel? 

it should. it really should. but i dont think the ffa would give a fuck. i doubt the clubs would really care either.  

the only concern would be removal from the AFC. because this impacts the socceroos.

The AFC aren’t going to disqualify the FFA from anything over this topic.

We can’t have relegation between HAL and NPL because it’s largely an amateur competition so the AFC are only going to ask “where’s your second division?” ... when the answer is we haven’t got one then p/r as a discussion fades away.

We need that second division and the fact the AAFC are taking so long over it suggests the numbers don’t add up otherwise we’d be kicking it off in October this year. It doesn’t take that long to organise a new league.

AAFC aren't taking their time over it - they agreed to work with the FFA rather than go ahead without them...  It's a consultation process to make sure everyone is on the same page.  It appears Nicou is on a different page to everyone else.

Assuming a second division gets up and running within five years,this would change the football landscape regardless of promotion /relegation.
A second division closed off from the top presents a very interesting possibility.

Second division by name does not mean second best if teams of the second division over many years never play teams in the first divsion.
Who is to know if a team in the first divsion is better than a team in the second division,if each division grows independently?

What if there is only a small salary cap difference over time?
What if transfer fees make some second divsion teams wealthy enough to have quality players?

Having a second division changes things.There will be ambitious teams ,who will make people wonder who they can beat in the first division amd then the whole dynamics change.

What happens when the crowds at a second divsion game are greater than those at a first division game?.....
.......It means promotion/relegation is close......regardless of what an idiot at FFA says.

the AFC have issues with australia's membership and have used this particular issue as a vessel to pressure the ffa.  there are a number of members that do not want australia in the AFC.  our clubs dont have relegation to deal with in the local comp - which unfairly advantages them in the ACL. and more importantly we take up a world cup slot.   there is a requirement of participation within the AFC the australia has a proper competition with promotion and relegation.  

@ Benjamin

This month marks two years since the AAFC was founded.

The question has to be asked - why isn’t the national second division starting up in October this year?

The next question to be asked is if it doesn’t start this year, will it start October 2020?

Why is it taking so long? It’s feeding the critics that are saying “it’s not financially viable”

As for “working with the FFA” ... that was a monumental cock-up imo. But it still doesn’t explain why we haven’t got a launch date or why it’s taking so long!

First of all it will take a couple of years at least before a 2nd Div starts and that's being optimistic after the selection process.
Secondly and in the meantime the HAL will increase its numbers to 16, progressively. This in itself will create substantial interest.
The announcement of P&R will come well ahead of 2034 to allow existing and new clubs to bolster their stocks and battle for promotion.

There will be enough interest maintained throughout the 13 years providing a plan is in place. 2034 is not a bad target for P&R.

There is nothing legislative or contractual preventing P/R. It has been well documented that there is an "out" for the 2034 clause

P/R is simply whether or not we want it. We can pretend our hand has been forced so we have to run a league in a way that drives the game into the ground but that isnt the case

I agree with what others have said - the league in its current format will not survive to 2034. I'd go as far as saying without major change it wont make it past the next TV deal either

@Bundoorah brah

“Australian clubs have an advantage in the ACL” 😂😂

We operate a salary cap that some countries couldn’t fit one player in to so no, we don’t get any advantage lol.

And it’s back to the basic question - without a second division there can’t be relegation and the AFC will just say “nothing to see here” and move right along.

Only if the clubs are being prevented from forming a Div2 will the AFC have an issue ... until then it’s a mute point.

It's not just a matter if we want it or not it also hinges if we can afford it or not and if so to what meaningful extent.

As to the HAL not surviving to 2034, it's about as accurate as the initial 3 years tops quote.

AAFC had a decision to make.  Set up a second division without FFA backing - run in competition with the governing body; or, work with the FFA to set up a second division with their support - run in conjunction with the governing body...  They opted, correctly, for the latter.  Once that decision was made, they had to wait for the old FFA to be replaced by a more conciliatory body - mission accomplished.  Now they are working with that body toward a mutually beneficial future.  If you fail to see how much massive (and positive) movement has been achieved in just two years, without dividing an already struggling sport, you aren't paying attention.

What we can't afford is the current structure which has been proven time and time again. Paying close to $4 million for CCM to shit kick at the bottom of the league is a waste of money

The AFL / NRL model simply doesnt work. It is over inflated and destructive. Any sports administrator worth even half their salt would come up with a far more cost efficient model than the one we have now

No P/R comes down to a lack of money management ability, and inexperience in sports administration

Hypothetically speaking, let’s say we we have a ‘central coast mariners’ situation in the second division. Let’s call them joe blow fc.

So joe blow fc are just happy to be in the second division and play 18 year olds every week because all they want to do is sell players and make profit. They have no interest in winning anything because they know they can’t be relegated and they don’t care for promotion.
So joe blow play at a local stadium and lose 3-0 every week but they sell one player a year for $1m.


How do we stop that from happening? I am all for a second division. But how do we stop this from happening?

I wonder what Chris Nikou's take on what the 2nd division should look like in his eyes, it appears some of the board members don't appear to be on the same page as Nikou with regards to the identity of it.

Who cares?  That's a development team giving young blokes an opportunity at professional football.  There are development teams like that all over the world.

Why does everyone want to keep putting up roadblocks.  This can be done.

This whole thing needs to be turned around from 'This won't work' to "how can we ensure this does work'.

Fucks sake.