Handball rule clarification (IFAB)


Handball rule clarification (IFAB)

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Roar in me Blood
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jlm8695 - 24 Apr 2019 8:56 PM
Roar in me Blood - 24 Apr 2019 7:26 PM

Kicking/heading the ball into your own hand/arm when its above your shoulder isn't handball, thats basically it. Say you accidentally slice it or something like that, no punishment.

Thanks mate - although it seems a bit funny that if you have your arm above your shoulder and it accidentally bounces off you onto it that is a free kick but if you are deliberately going for the ball and it happens they don't care. Makes sense though that any miss hit ball is not an intentional handball.

Who'd be a ref!

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jlm8695 - 24 Apr 2019 10:02 PM
clockwork orange - 24 Apr 2019 9:55 PM

But in your example of a slice the arm wouldn't being used to make the body unnaturally bigger. It would just be there, and the slice would be deemed accidental.

It's really not that complicated. Try to actually picture the scenario you're imagining and how the ball would get to the hand above the shoulder- it's almost physically impossible.

So what you are saying is that if the handball is accidental then it’s play on otherwise it’s a free kick. Who’d have thought that could be a good rule?
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At the start of next season they should get a panel of referees in front of some footage of various contentious handballs and get them to explain public ally how each situation should be treated under the new rules. 
As an example, the Harry Kewell send off at the WC. My recollection is that under the old ‘hand to ball’ interpretation, he had moved his arm towards the ball, the ball struck his arm, so it was a pen. This rule no longer applies- in fact these rules say as long as his arm is close to his body, it’s no pen. You could argue it wasn’t deliberate - he was trying to get his body in front of the ball not his arm.
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clockwork orange - 24 Apr 2019 9:55 PM
jlm8695 - 24 Apr 2019 9:44 PM

Nope. It says it’s not handball “unless they are one of the above situations.”  One of the “above situations” is the hand/arm making the body unnaturally bigger. 

But in your example of a slice the arm wouldn't being used to make the body unnaturally bigger. It would just be there, and the slice would be deemed accidental.

It's really not that complicated. Try to actually picture the scenario you're imagining and how the ball would get to the hand above the shoulder- it's almost physically impossible.
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jlm8695 - 24 Apr 2019 9:44 PM
It is pretty clear that it wouldn’t be given as handball considering they specifically outlined that a player accidentally playing the ball into their own hand isn’t handball ay

Nope. It says it’s not handball “unless they are one of the above situations.”  One of the “above situations” is the hand/arm making the body unnaturally bigger. 
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It is pretty clear that it wouldn’t be given as handball considering they specifically outlined that a player accidentally playing the ball into their own hand isn’t handball ay


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RBBAnonymous - 24 Apr 2019 12:41 PM
miron mercedes - 24 Apr 2019 9:39 AM

Why are you sliding in the first place, because you are a shit defender and cant defend someone while on your feet. The defender assumes the risk of sliding and putting his hand in an unnatural position. 

I take it you think a perfectly legal slide tackle is a bad thing  ? I assume you used to be a slow winger who got slide tackled a lot and didn't like it . I say again ..if you do a perfectly legal slide tackle your arms will usually be behind and above you ..in other words in a "natural position" whilst slide tackling ...

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jlm8695 - 24 Apr 2019 8:56 PM
Roar in me Blood - 24 Apr 2019 7:26 PM

Kicking/heading the ball into your own hand/arm when its above your shoulder isn't handball, thats basically it. Say you accidentally slice it or something like that, no punishment.

So, a defender standing on the line slices the ball into their hand and prevents a goal. If their hand is making their body unnaturally bigger it’s a penalty.  But if their hand is above their shoulder it’s play on? Clear as mud.
Edited
6 Years Ago by clockwork orange
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Roar in me Blood - 24 Apr 2019 7:26 PM
I am confused:
Handball and freekick if:
"• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm)"

So that is saying a handball is when it touches their hand/arm when it is above the shoulder, but not a handball if they have deliberately played the ball into their hand/arm?

I am missing something here.

Kicking/heading the ball into your own hand/arm when its above your shoulder isn't handball, thats basically it. Say you accidentally slice it or something like that, no punishment.
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I am confused:
Handball and freekick if:
"• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm)"

So that is saying a handball is when it touches their hand/arm when it is above the shoulder, but not a handball if they have deliberately played the ball into their hand/arm?

I am missing something here.

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clockwork orange - 24 Apr 2019 9:24 AM
City Sam - 24 Apr 2019 8:40 AM

How do you know this is the interpretation? If it is correct, why wouldn't they just say that ... for clarity. 
But as I said before, standing rigidly with your arms by your side is about as unnatural as you can be in any sport, (unless you are the target in an archery competition). 
If the ball hits my arm as it swings during my normal running motion, is that a case of my body being 'naturally bigger' or 'unnaturally bigger'?

What else would it be? Arm next to body isn't unnaturally bigger, arm extended from the body is. I think it is a good rule to implement, you shouldn't get an advantage of blocking a shot if the ball hits your arm which is half a metre or so away from the actual body. It is a clear advantage.

And situations where this would occur no player would be running close to full tilt where it is out of their control, not that hard to keep your arms close to your body when you are standing up to a forward.
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RBBAnonymous - 24 Apr 2019 12:41 PM
miron mercedes - 24 Apr 2019 9:39 AM

Why are you sliding in the first place, because you are a shit defender and cant defend someone while on your feet. The defender assumes the risk of sliding and putting his hand in an unnatural position. 

Is that you Lucas?
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miron mercedes - 24 Apr 2019 9:39 AM
having the arms above the shoulder is now an "unnatural position"...fair enough ...."even when sliding" ....not fair ...try to do a slide tackle without your arms out behind you and therefore above shoulder height...impossible .

Why are you sliding in the first place, because you are a shit defender and cant defend someone while on your feet. The defender assumes the risk of sliding and putting his hand in an unnatural position. 







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Naturally bigger.

Quote didn’t work on the iPhone. That was for clockwork orange.


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Edited
6 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
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Unnaturally bigger is pretty easy to determine when you’re reffing. Most people looking at it would know instinctively what they’re trying to get at and what is ‘unnatural ‘.

The problem with showing examples of what is and what isn’t only leads to an artificial distinction that someone later on will point to and say ‘look you said’.

I realise this is a bit wishy washy but I think these are good changes.


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having the arms above the shoulder is now an "unnatural position"...fair enough ...."even when sliding" ....not fair ...try to do a slide tackle without your arms out behind you and therefore above shoulder height...impossible .

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City Sam - 24 Apr 2019 8:40 AM
Unnaturally bigger definitely means when the ball hits your arm when it is extended and away from your body.

How do you know this is the interpretation? If it is correct, why wouldn't they just say that ... for clarity. 
But as I said before, standing rigidly with your arms by your side is about as unnatural as you can be in any sport, (unless you are the target in an archery competition). 
If the ball hits my arm as it swings during my normal running motion, is that a case of my body being 'naturally bigger' or 'unnaturally bigger'?

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City Sam - 24 Apr 2019 8:40 AM
Unnaturally bigger definitely means when the ball hits your arm when it is extended and away from your body.

They should have used the term torso instead of body and that would have made it easier for everyone to understand.

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Unnaturally bigger definitely means when the ball hits your arm when it is extended and away from your body.
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I see what they are trying to do but this statement provides no clarity whatsoever.
“the ball touches a player’s hand/arm which has made their body unnaturally bigger”
Perhaps they could provide some pictures showing when an arm makes the body ‘naturally bigger’ vs when an arm makes the body ‘unnaturally’ bigger.
Surely it is unnatural to be defending with your arms rigidly held by your side. It is more natural to have them slightly away from your side for balance.
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Watching games pre sky sports and no appeals every game.
Rules changed for TV and not the benefit of football.

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What does 'unnaturally bigger' mean?

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Handball
Law 12
Changes

• Deliberate handball remains an offence
• The following ‘handball’ situations, even if accidental, will be a free kick:
• the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player’s hand/arm
• a player gains control/possession of the ball after it has touches their hand/arm and then scores, or creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm which has made their body unnaturally bigger
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm when it is above their shoulder (unless the player has deliberately played the ball which then touches their hand/arm)

The following will not usually be a free kick, unless they are one of the above situations:

• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from their own head/body/foot or the head/body/foot of another player who is close/near
• the ball touches a player’s hand/arm which is close to their body and has not made their body unnaturally bigger
•if a player is falling and the ball touches their hand/arm when it is between their body and the ground to support the body (but not extended to make the body bigger)
•If the goalkeeper attempts to ‘clear’ (release into play) a throw-in or deliberate kick from a team-mate but the ‘clearance’ fails, the goalkeeper can then handle the ball

 Explanation
Greater clarity is needed for handball, especially on those occasions when ‘nondeliberate’ handball is an offence. The re-wording follows a number of principles:
• football does not accept a goal being scored by a hand/arm (even if accidental)
• football expects a player to be penalised for handball if they gain possession/control of the ball from their hand/arm and gain a major advantage e.g. score or create a goal-scoring opportunity
•it is natural for a player to put their arm between their body and the ground for support when falling.
• having the hand/arm above shoulder height is rarely a ‘natural’ position and a player is ‘taking a risk’ by having the hand/arm in that position, including when sliding
•if the ball comes off the player’s body, or off another player (of either team) who is close by, onto the hands/arms it is often impossible to avoid contact with the ball
• When the GK clearly kicks or tries to kick the ball into play, this shows no intention o handle the ball so, if the ‘clearance’ attempt is unsuccessful, the goalkeeper can
then handle the ball without committing an offence

http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/786/111531_110319_IFAB_LoG_at_a_Glance.pdf

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