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hounddog
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In reserve grade there always seems to be a few ex Dogs players in the opposition team.
Bergamin is fullback for the Bears, I thought he was a good player.
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hounddog
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What we don't have is reserve grade stacked full of NRL rejects blocking the path for young players, and that is a big improvement on the last 5 years.
In many teams we seem to have a lot of young players stepping up to the next level.
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hounddog
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWow 360 tonight was vicious. Rothfield, Kent and Anasta all had knives sticking out of Goulds back but as usual, only surmising they what is going on behind the scenes at the Dogs. One more reason for the club to pull together, turn it around, and prove the critics wrong. I do think questions must be asked. Fifth season since Des, two coaches, nearly 100 games, many players purchased, past our salary cap constraints and running last again. Very hard to argue we are not under performing. About time the situation was addressed by the board and what they see as acceptable performance and any action they propose and communicated to us supporters. This can't go on. Gus on Twitter seems happy about us signing some dude from Fiji. By round 10 I'll decide my opinion on Baz. Beyond that Gus is making the calls and this is his first season on deck. The board can leave football matters to the football department, for now. I'll make the call on on Gus at the end of 2024, but if Gus hasn't fixed our problems, we may as well quit footy and join a netball comp. People at board level making calls on football matters is part of how we got in this mess. The other part is looking for quick fixes and not building a strong base. My understanding of what Gus is trying to do is exactly what I would do. The point im making is we're moving at the speed of a thousand snails. I hope and expect it will get better. Can't get worse than last. I just expected a little more incremental improvement. As for the board they make the most fundamental decisions such as coach selection. A bit more oversight by the board and we wouldn't have been in the salary cap predicament we we were. I very much agree MDOG, the rebuild has taken eternity. I always thought we had the best administration and would rectify a poor season or two in quicker time than most other clubs. I don't withbagree with HD that our admin was poor in the years from 1996 to 2004. I thought it was one if the best. It's around about 2005-2006 where it started going downhill. It's amazing that we find ourselves 18 years since our last premiership and 10 years since we last had a legitimate top 4 team. I think it proves our clubs ideology of trying to tap into performances of the 80s is flawed. It just doesnt worknin the modern game. We still haven't fixed this and still ignore having our spine as highest paid players. Gus makes numerous references to this which somewhat pleases me but at the same time, I feel we are still another 3 years of rectifying it. The problems started when Des left. Micko, the problems started when Des arrived. The extent of the damage was exposed when Des left, and a series of blunders at admin level since has failed to rectify the damage. That’s just crap. That is the excuse made by every board. And it is very clearly political spin.
Des had control of the football operations of the club for only a few years. In that time does anybody really believe the juniors were so severely ignored that it cost us any great players. That is the main point Des haters push. And it’s simple to fix. In less than a couple of years. Remember our junior base is tiny compared to most.
The only other point was the salary cap. If we were over by so much than we had two choices. Either promote juniors or buy decent first graders cheap. We did both poorly.
Des signed Trex on decent coin. But he was an Australian rep player. He didn’t let go Finucane who asked to leave. Barba was his own problem. Cook was let go by Saints before us and most believe Lucia was a future rep hooker from his junior days.
Des also could have been overruled by the board if the contracts were so far out of control. Its stupid to blame him. He was the scapegoat for two boards that failed. And he is still the scapegoat for our fans. It’s just stupid.
In life you own your mistakes. Our club needs to do exactly this. And our fans need to do the same. There is a lot more to it than that. How many really talented lower graders transitioned to NRL in the time Des was here? How many hacks did we sign? Players let go too early - Pritchard, Cook, Ennis . Players used in entirely the wrong way, Lichaa, Reynolds. Good reilable spine players signed or developed - zero. Spine players. Are you kidding? Hodkinson signed by Des. Perrett signed by Des. Reynolds and Barba both playing off the bench or in reserves in different positions until Des. Other than the cheating chickens what team signed great spine players instead of us when Des was coach?
Licha was a hooker and was used there. Reynolds was a 5/8th and was used there. Both by Des.
Pritchard did what when let go? Ennis certainly but most believed Licha was the next top hooker. He was the best young rake in the game. Cook was offered a contract but only the great Marki could have picked that he was going to be a superstar. 😉
Who are these hacks we signed? Who didn’t make it from our juniors because of Des and signed elsewhere.
You have to look past the bias. Des isn’t to blame.
Des tried to turn Lichaa into an 80 minute player and completely stuffed up his game . I blame Des and those running the club for the mess. Most of the better players were from the squad assembled by more or in our lower grades when Des got herr. Taupau another clanger, ultimately replaced by Woods. I think Des can coach but keep him well away from recruitment and retention and cap management. Prior to thus season it looks like our main signing critera 2019-2021 was price, we were shopping in the bargin bin with very few good lower graders. Or in other words, a total mess. Name one player we signed 2019-2021 that was an in demand player first choice at their club for their position. Ironically Cotric is probably the one. And he seemed like a good signing at the time. You still didn’t answer the questions. But no need. You don’t like Des.
To answer yours. Licha was a great defender. And had a good running game. But simply didn’t cut it in first grade. I don’t think it’s fair to blame that entirely on Des.
Tapau was ordinary in most teams he played and dropped plenty of ball. That said I would sign him. Just not for what he got paid by the Tigers. Can’t blame Des for him getting more than we can afford.
Agreed Des is a great coach but shouldn’t have the final say in recruitment, retention and juniors.
As for our signings from 19-21 they were decent. But clearly coached poorly. That’s not Des’s fault. Also our reserve grade were great during that time. And most were let go or went untried during the Pay years.
My main point is fans need to give Gus more time. It will take as long as it takes, if he can't fix it, no one can. Des was only 25% of the problem, but the facts are the club was in reasonable shape 2011/2012 and a total shambles by 2017/2018. I can't remember any club other than Parra being in such a mess. Lichaa was a running 9 and Reynolds was an ideal 14. Lichaa bulked up, slowed down, did a lot less running. Taupau going killed off our most likely running opportunity for Lichaa. We had a great pack of forwards and didn't need T-Rex. Foran wasn't what we needed. Gus has recruited well. Easily the best players we have signed in two of the most important positions that need to be filled. He also believes and has said the future halfback is at the club. As for juniors I hear they are improving but have seen little concrete evidence. I hope they are. Im happy for Gus to make the decisions for the next five years. Then we can judge him on results. Baz as well should see out his time and be judged by results. But players also need to be judged in the same way. Currently we are last. We are currently the worst team in the comp. Only the current club board, coach and players are to blame. I agree with most of that. Us being the worst team in the comp is misleading. The comp is fairly even and a high standard, performances are not always accurately reflected in the table. We were not far off winning 1-2 games and so far only totally outclassed in 1-2 games. The Storm, Rabbits, Panthers and Broncos have beaten others just as well as they beat us. The Chooks is a challenge we need to at least be in the fight after 50 mins. A win would be great, but is very unlikely. It is important to go down fighting and make them earn it. I would like to see Cook get a run just in case he does something. For the coach, if Gus isn't happy he will move the coach on, he would move on Bennett, Bellamy and Robinson if he thought that was the right call. But he also steps back a bit and lets the coach do his job. For the lower grades most of the reserve grade players backline this week have potential. The team is going ok, so some of the forwards must be ok, our depth in forwards is currently being tested. The 3 grades below reserve grade also seem to be going ok, and some of them stepped up to reserve grade. A few of the young halves seem like very good players.
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Mick O
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xSouths v Manly sin bin definately, send off, probably the wrong call. At least Des will be in a good mood in the presser. Tackle as dangerous as it gets. All his own doing, no shared responsibility. Happy with the send off Yes agreed. Lifted beyond horizontal, held on at all stages even though he could have pulled out, and worst of all drove him into ground and lifted his legs for extra oumph. As textbook spear tackle as you can get. Fortunately Murray overturned and twisted to his side to avoid direct neck compression. Could have been much worse. Send off every day of week. Agreed. Spear tackle that has been outlawed for many years. Could have broken his neck. Definitely send off.
But I don’t think there was intent. It was a classic lifting tackle and a near perfect one. Just unfortunately Murray flipped too far. This brings up a point. Personal foul versus a foul that affects the flow of the game. Could the player be punished but the team and the game not be ruined. Just a thought, open to opinions/suggestions. The problem has always been the fear of bringing on a rookie to take out the oppositions best player. No team does this now because they are fearful of having one less player on the field. If they change the rule and allow that player to be replaced it opens up the opportunity to do so. There needs to be sanctions of course, but is there an intermediate step. I’m sure there is. But I fail to see it
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Mick O
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWow 360 tonight was vicious. Rothfield, Kent and Anasta all had knives sticking out of Goulds back but as usual, only surmising they what is going on behind the scenes at the Dogs. One more reason for the club to pull together, turn it around, and prove the critics wrong. I do think questions must be asked. Fifth season since Des, two coaches, nearly 100 games, many players purchased, past our salary cap constraints and running last again. Very hard to argue we are not under performing. About time the situation was addressed by the board and what they see as acceptable performance and any action they propose and communicated to us supporters. This can't go on. Gus on Twitter seems happy about us signing some dude from Fiji. By round 10 I'll decide my opinion on Baz. Beyond that Gus is making the calls and this is his first season on deck. The board can leave football matters to the football department, for now. I'll make the call on on Gus at the end of 2024, but if Gus hasn't fixed our problems, we may as well quit footy and join a netball comp. People at board level making calls on football matters is part of how we got in this mess. The other part is looking for quick fixes and not building a strong base. My understanding of what Gus is trying to do is exactly what I would do. The point im making is we're moving at the speed of a thousand snails. I hope and expect it will get better. Can't get worse than last. I just expected a little more incremental improvement. As for the board they make the most fundamental decisions such as coach selection. A bit more oversight by the board and we wouldn't have been in the salary cap predicament we we were. I very much agree MDOG, the rebuild has taken eternity. I always thought we had the best administration and would rectify a poor season or two in quicker time than most other clubs. I don't withbagree with HD that our admin was poor in the years from 1996 to 2004. I thought it was one if the best. It's around about 2005-2006 where it started going downhill. It's amazing that we find ourselves 18 years since our last premiership and 10 years since we last had a legitimate top 4 team. I think it proves our clubs ideology of trying to tap into performances of the 80s is flawed. It just doesnt worknin the modern game. We still haven't fixed this and still ignore having our spine as highest paid players. Gus makes numerous references to this which somewhat pleases me but at the same time, I feel we are still another 3 years of rectifying it. The problems started when Des left. Micko, the problems started when Des arrived. The extent of the damage was exposed when Des left, and a series of blunders at admin level since has failed to rectify the damage. That’s just crap. That is the excuse made by every board. And it is very clearly political spin.
Des had control of the football operations of the club for only a few years. In that time does anybody really believe the juniors were so severely ignored that it cost us any great players. That is the main point Des haters push. And it’s simple to fix. In less than a couple of years. Remember our junior base is tiny compared to most.
The only other point was the salary cap. If we were over by so much than we had two choices. Either promote juniors or buy decent first graders cheap. We did both poorly.
Des signed Trex on decent coin. But he was an Australian rep player. He didn’t let go Finucane who asked to leave. Barba was his own problem. Cook was let go by Saints before us and most believe Lucia was a future rep hooker from his junior days.
Des also could have been overruled by the board if the contracts were so far out of control. Its stupid to blame him. He was the scapegoat for two boards that failed. And he is still the scapegoat for our fans. It’s just stupid.
In life you own your mistakes. Our club needs to do exactly this. And our fans need to do the same. There is a lot more to it than that. How many really talented lower graders transitioned to NRL in the time Des was here? How many hacks did we sign? Players let go too early - Pritchard, Cook, Ennis . Players used in entirely the wrong way, Lichaa, Reynolds. Good reilable spine players signed or developed - zero. Spine players. Are you kidding? Hodkinson signed by Des. Perrett signed by Des. Reynolds and Barba both playing off the bench or in reserves in different positions until Des. Other than the cheating chickens what team signed great spine players instead of us when Des was coach?
Licha was a hooker and was used there. Reynolds was a 5/8th and was used there. Both by Des.
Pritchard did what when let go? Ennis certainly but most believed Licha was the next top hooker. He was the best young rake in the game. Cook was offered a contract but only the great Marki could have picked that he was going to be a superstar. 😉
Who are these hacks we signed? Who didn’t make it from our juniors because of Des and signed elsewhere.
You have to look past the bias. Des isn’t to blame.
Des tried to turn Lichaa into an 80 minute player and completely stuffed up his game . I blame Des and those running the club for the mess. Most of the better players were from the squad assembled by more or in our lower grades when Des got herr. Taupau another clanger, ultimately replaced by Woods. I think Des can coach but keep him well away from recruitment and retention and cap management. Prior to thus season it looks like our main signing critera 2019-2021 was price, we were shopping in the bargin bin with very few good lower graders. Or in other words, a total mess. Name one player we signed 2019-2021 that was an in demand player first choice at their club for their position. Ironically Cotric is probably the one. And he seemed like a good signing at the time. You still didn’t answer the questions. But no need. You don’t like Des.
To answer yours. Licha was a great defender. And had a good running game. But simply didn’t cut it in first grade. I don’t think it’s fair to blame that entirely on Des.
Tapau was ordinary in most teams he played and dropped plenty of ball. That said I would sign him. Just not for what he got paid by the Tigers. Can’t blame Des for him getting more than we can afford.
Agreed Des is a great coach but shouldn’t have the final say in recruitment, retention and juniors.
As for our signings from 19-21 they were decent. But clearly coached poorly. That’s not Des’s fault. Also our reserve grade were great during that time. And most were let go or went untried during the Pay years.
My main point is fans need to give Gus more time. It will take as long as it takes, if he can't fix it, no one can. Des was only 25% of the problem, but the facts are the club was in reasonable shape 2011/2012 and a total shambles by 2017/2018. I can't remember any club other than Parra being in such a mess. Lichaa was a running 9 and Reynolds was an ideal 14. Lichaa bulked up, slowed down, did a lot less running. Taupau going killed off our most likely running opportunity for Lichaa. We had a great pack of forwards and didn't need T-Rex. Foran wasn't what we needed. Gus has recruited well. Easily the best players we have signed in two of the most important positions that need to be filled. He also believes and has said the future halfback is at the club. As for juniors I hear they are improving but have seen little concrete evidence. I hope they are. Im happy for Gus to make the decisions for the next five years. Then we can judge him on results. Baz as well should see out his time and be judged by results. But players also need to be judged in the same way. Currently we are last. We are currently the worst team in the comp. Only the current club board, coach and players are to blame.
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Mooloolabadog
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+x+x+x+xMicko, Des is not the only one to blame, but his stupid idea of front ending massive contracts to attract players was poor. It crippled the club right up to the end of 2020. I don't think the Anderdon ticket faired any better, they were like cashed up kids in a candy shop. Hopefully the new board and admin can keep a cool head and sort this mess out fairly quickly. We were slightly cashed up making signings for this season, you can see that in the names, Burton, JAC, Naden, etc. Before that we were shopping at the reject shop. Flanno in particular was signed in the hope of long term potential, not a certain quick fix. And the problem there is the term of the contract. No way should he been offered 3 years. No way. No reject players should be given 3 full years. What is done is done, he was a long term bet and tge longer term helps his confidence. If he is plan A we need a short term plan B. The real learning here, is keep developing our own talent and manage the cap well, when you slide down the table it isn't an easy climb back. Build a strong squad and club, attracting the best coaches won't be a problem. Essentially I agree on the importance of spine positions, especially 9,7,1 in that order, with 9 being the most important because they should touch the ball more than any other player and they make the first decision. However, a quality 7 means 9 isn't as critical. Longer term helps his confidence. Shorter term helps his motivation and the club's flexibility.
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Mooloolabadog
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+x+x+x+x+x+xSouths v Manly sin bin definately, send off, probably the wrong call. At least Des will be in a good mood in the presser. Tackle as dangerous as it gets. All his own doing, no shared responsibility. Happy with the send off Yes agreed. Lifted beyond horizontal, held on at all stages even though he could have pulled out, and worst of all drove him into ground and lifted his legs for extra oumph. As textbook spear tackle as you can get. Fortunately Murray overturned and twisted to his side to avoid direct neck compression. Could have been much worse. Send off every day of week. Agreed. Spear tackle that has been outlawed for many years. Could have broken his neck. Definitely send off.
But I don’t think there was intent. It was a classic lifting tackle and a near perfect one. Just unfortunately Murray flipped too far. This brings up a point. Personal foul versus a foul that affects the flow of the game. Could the player be punished but the team and the game not be ruined. Just a thought, open to opinions/suggestions. The problem has always been the fear of bringing on a rookie to take out the oppositions best player. No team does this now because they are fearful of having one less player on the field. If they change the rule and allow that player to be replaced it opens up the opportunity to do so. There needs to be sanctions of course, but is there an intermediate step.
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Mooloolabadog
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+x+xValidity in what you both say. How do you address it is the question. What is there to address is the question. In any EBA there are employees overpaid and employees underpaid. I work with both, you probably do too. And in regards to the min cap, it’s still the players money no matter how worthy or unworthy anyone thinks under law. TheNRL don’t tell the clubs who to sign or not, but once they have they have to give them their money I don't work with anyone, I'm 80 next week. All I'm suggesting is a garage full of second hand Commodores is valued the same as a garage full of rolls royces under this system.
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Mick O
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+x+x+x+x+xSouths v Manly sin bin definately, send off, probably the wrong call. At least Des will be in a good mood in the presser. Tackle as dangerous as it gets. All his own doing, no shared responsibility. Happy with the send off Yes agreed. Lifted beyond horizontal, held on at all stages even though he could have pulled out, and worst of all drove him into ground and lifted his legs for extra oumph. As textbook spear tackle as you can get. Fortunately Murray overturned and twisted to his side to avoid direct neck compression. Could have been much worse. Send off every day of week. Agreed. Spear tackle that has been outlawed for many years. Could have broken his neck. Definitely send off.
But I don’t think there was intent. It was a classic lifting tackle and a near perfect one. Just unfortunately Murray flipped too far. This brings up a point. Personal foul versus a foul that affects the flow of the game. Could the player be punished but the team and the game not be ruined. Just a thought, open to opinions/suggestions. The problem has always been the fear of bringing on a rookie to take out the oppositions best player. No team does this now because they are fearful of having one less player on the field. If they change the rule and allow that player to be replaced it opens up the opportunity to do so.
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Marki
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+x+x+x+xMicko, Des is not the only one to blame, but his stupid idea of front ending massive contracts to attract players was poor. It crippled the club right up to the end of 2020. I don't think the Anderdon ticket faired any better, they were like cashed up kids in a candy shop. Hopefully the new board and admin can keep a cool head and sort this mess out fairly quickly. We were slightly cashed up making signings for this season, you can see that in the names, Burton, JAC, Naden, etc. Before that we were shopping at the reject shop. Flanno in particular was signed in the hope of long term potential, not a certain quick fix. And the problem there is the term of the contract. No way should he been offered 3 years. No way. No reject players should be given 3 full years. What is done is done, he was a long term bet and tge longer term helps his confidence. If he is plan A we need a short term plan B. The real learning here, is keep developing our own talent and manage the cap well, when you slide down the table it isn't an easy climb back. Build a strong squad and club, attracting the best coaches won't be a problem. Essentially I agree on the importance of spine positions, especially 9,7,1 in that order, with 9 being the most important because they should touch the ball more than any other player and they make the first decision. However, a quality 7 means 9 isn't as critical. Manly, Penrith and Parra are proving that with a very strong fullback and halfback, you can get away with just an average hooker (both play best with good hookers but still good without them as long as their super fullback and halves are playing) But yes I agree that in most teams, the hooker has to be top notch to keep the team in the game.
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Marki
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+x+x+x+xI blame Zef for all this coz back in 2016 when I wanted Des sacked for Ivan Cleary, who would have brought his son to us, we would never have been in this hole we are in. All I got from Zef back then was "what has Cleary done" blah blah blah. Instead, we extend Des only to sack him later for a massive payout, but not before he buries our SC and it takes us 5 years and 2 rookie coaches to get to where we are (back to back to back spoons). Next time..... fekking listen to Dr Marki. Oh get real. The Cleary we would’ve got in 2016 is the Cleary the Tigers got who loaded up their cap with Mbye and Reynolds and Packer who they’re still paying for, not the Cleary who got the club Gus built. And he didn’t get the Tigers Junior either nor were ever going to nor was anyone else no matter who Senior coached. If we got him for 2016, you would’ve been calling for his sacking about mid 2017 because he would not have done in 5 years with our cap what he’s been able to do achieve at The Panthers, which is credit to him, but don’t try and kid any of us you’d be still patiently giving him time at The Dogs when he couldn’t do it here, nor at The Tigers, nor anywhere else he’s coached really. You really don't like giving him credit. This the same bloke that took Warriors to a GF. Warriors! The team no one wants to coach. Had we got him, yes we would have kept Reynolds. We probably nab Nathan a year later and all of a sudden our team has a spine of Mbye, JR, Nathan and who knows who our hooker would be (but certainly not Lichaa). It's very convenient to say he inherited the team Gus and Griffin built, but you forget he was at Penrith before Gus found him "tired" and knew some of the lower graders already. What Gus did with the lower grades there was very fruitful but you still need a head coach to make decision to pick 17 on gameday. He also brought the best out of his son more than any coach could. Don't underestimate that. A 6 and 7 of JR and Cleary would have been good for us and no way would have us at the bottom of the ladder I gove him credit Marki, but it took him 10 years and 300 odd games to here. And even now, his career has more failures than auccess’s. You would not have given him anywhere near the time, don’t try and shit me. Especially if he came to The Dogs in 16 he’d still be trying. He’d be loooooong gone under your watch. 2 things... 1) Because he was one of MY suggestions, I wouldn't be calling for his head within 18months. I'd give him 36. 2) I highly doubt he would have us anywhere near our current predicament. For starters, we get Nathan and a bunch of other close buddies of his from Panthers lower grades. Secondly, even that Tigers team you are quick to stick the boot it, ended up in 9th spot but with a 50-50 record that usually plays finals every other year. Right now, we can only dream of a 9th spot finish and most of us had the Dogs 7th-12th at the start of the year. Anyway.... its water under the bridge now. But I was right all along.
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hounddog
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+x+x+xMicko, Des is not the only one to blame, but his stupid idea of front ending massive contracts to attract players was poor. It crippled the club right up to the end of 2020. I don't think the Anderdon ticket faired any better, they were like cashed up kids in a candy shop. Hopefully the new board and admin can keep a cool head and sort this mess out fairly quickly. We were slightly cashed up making signings for this season, you can see that in the names, Burton, JAC, Naden, etc. Before that we were shopping at the reject shop. Flanno in particular was signed in the hope of long term potential, not a certain quick fix. And the problem there is the term of the contract. No way should he been offered 3 years. No way. No reject players should be given 3 full years. What is done is done, he was a long term bet and tge longer term helps his confidence. If he is plan A we need a short term plan B. The real learning here, is keep developing our own talent and manage the cap well, when you slide down the table it isn't an easy climb back. Build a strong squad and club, attracting the best coaches won't be a problem. Essentially I agree on the importance of spine positions, especially 9,7,1 in that order, with 9 being the most important because they should touch the ball more than any other player and they make the first decision. However, a quality 7 means 9 isn't as critical.
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Marki
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+x+xMicko, Des is not the only one to blame, but his stupid idea of front ending massive contracts to attract players was poor. It crippled the club right up to the end of 2020. I don't think the Anderdon ticket faired any better, they were like cashed up kids in a candy shop. Hopefully the new board and admin can keep a cool head and sort this mess out fairly quickly. We were slightly cashed up making signings for this season, you can see that in the names, Burton, JAC, Naden, etc. Before that we were shopping at the reject shop. Flanno in particular was signed in the hope of long term potential, not a certain quick fix. And the problem there is the term of the contract. No way should he been offered 3 years. No way. No reject players should be given 3 full years.
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Marki
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWow 360 tonight was vicious. Rothfield, Kent and Anasta all had knives sticking out of Goulds back but as usual, only surmising they what is going on behind the scenes at the Dogs. One more reason for the club to pull together, turn it around, and prove the critics wrong. I do think questions must be asked. Fifth season since Des, two coaches, nearly 100 games, many players purchased, past our salary cap constraints and running last again. Very hard to argue we are not under performing. About time the situation was addressed by the board and what they see as acceptable performance and any action they propose and communicated to us supporters. This can't go on. Gus on Twitter seems happy about us signing some dude from Fiji. By round 10 I'll decide my opinion on Baz. Beyond that Gus is making the calls and this is his first season on deck. The board can leave football matters to the football department, for now. I'll make the call on on Gus at the end of 2024, but if Gus hasn't fixed our problems, we may as well quit footy and join a netball comp. People at board level making calls on football matters is part of how we got in this mess. The other part is looking for quick fixes and not building a strong base. My understanding of what Gus is trying to do is exactly what I would do. The point im making is we're moving at the speed of a thousand snails. I hope and expect it will get better. Can't get worse than last. I just expected a little more incremental improvement. As for the board they make the most fundamental decisions such as coach selection. A bit more oversight by the board and we wouldn't have been in the salary cap predicament we we were. I very much agree MDOG, the rebuild has taken eternity. I always thought we had the best administration and would rectify a poor season or two in quicker time than most other clubs. I don't withbagree with HD that our admin was poor in the years from 1996 to 2004. I thought it was one if the best. It's around about 2005-2006 where it started going downhill. It's amazing that we find ourselves 18 years since our last premiership and 10 years since we last had a legitimate top 4 team. I think it proves our clubs ideology of trying to tap into performances of the 80s is flawed. It just doesnt worknin the modern game. We still haven't fixed this and still ignore having our spine as highest paid players. Gus makes numerous references to this which somewhat pleases me but at the same time, I feel we are still another 3 years of rectifying it. Don't forget the salary cap scandal and oasis. The players from 2004 were in the system for a long time, the club had a strong culture from the 1980s and 1990s. IMO the football department continued to perform for a while with crappy admin. But we had players like Steve Price who was from the earlier era. I will be fairly objective here and say that our 80s success was based on us being one of the best of the non professional era. In the era of professional rugby league and salary cap, we arent really all that good. But I honestly believe we are our own worst enemies on this. We continue to spend large chunks of the cap on forwards who aren't marketable and don't entice any 3rd party deals. Further, they don't put bums on seats or sell a million jerseys. We were huge in the 80’s because Bullfrog could spot talent and afford to pay for it with our great leagues club.
We need to go back to when we paid whatever we could for the best in the game. And spot the best young spine players in the juniors and offer them more money and the best coaching etc.
Fuck the salary cap. Fuck the media. Fuck the NRL. Buy the fucking comp! And get me a fucking beer. Yep, after the super lesgue war, the rules changed diluting the advantage of a leagues club. But it is also true that post Bullfrog the financial management of the club and leagues club got sloppy. In the 80s snd into the 90s out scouting was the best in the business, as shown by the great players be brought through the grades, the last one being Thurston and we can see a real drop off after that. I think things are now better. Chris Anderson going to Melbourne was also huge, they got Kimmorley and Hill who might have gone to the Dogs, also a some of our talented lower graders. We did very well to recover from that and be competitive 2002-2005. In terms of scouting and development most clubs copied our playbook, many of our scouts and their networks were recruited. Under Des our scouting, juniors, player development and lower grades in general went backwards. For many reasons not all do to with Des, harmony and unity in the club went backwards. In many areas we went from being the best in the league in the 1980s, to the worst in the league by 2017. We had lots of rubbish players in all grades and not a lot of exciting young talent coming through. We also haven't had a proper halfback since noddy was unfortunately injured or a decent hooker since we punted Ennis. Our forward pack 2018-2021 was the worst in the league, and a pale imitation of our traditional strength. But Gus is focused on getting us back to where we should be. I think that the worst is behind us, but it is taking time for that to register in the NRL wins column. We know why, we are missing quality players in a few key positions. But we do have a lot of exciting young talent coming through the grades, more than any time since 2000. Lets not forget the elephant in the room "the minimum cap floor". I struggle to think of a more damaging guideline introduced by the NRL that can have such adverse effect to poor performing clubs entrenched to the bottom of the table. It is seriously the most stupid thing ever conceived. It has made sure we have overpaid our hacks in the period of 2016-2021 and instead of allowing us to clean up our SC mess, it exacerbated it. NRL morons. If they are serious about helping the bottom clubs, they should not enforce the minimum cap floor on the bottom 4 clubs The minimum cap is part of the EBA with players Union so that the players get their cut of the game’s revenue. The grant money handed to the clubs to use on the cap is not the club’s money to “spend” or “save” it’s the players money and they must be payed it. Hence the minimum cap. It’s the players money, simple as that. Thanks for clarifying, I forgot about the EBA. In that case, it's the stupid EBA that is causing this long delay in bottom teams recovering from their SC mess. Needs an overhaul. NRL is a business and bottom clubs trying to get as much revenue as top teams is not really that fair. Certainly not when their players are worth top dollar. But they'll never roll over. So only solution I can think of is NRL grant perennial bottom 4 clubs an exception to cap floor which allow them to "bank" their grant money and go hard at recruitment next year or year after. Within 3 years, bottom club SHOULD be able to climb out. Costs NRL nothing more than it currently pays.
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Zef
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+x+x+xI blame Zef for all this coz back in 2016 when I wanted Des sacked for Ivan Cleary, who would have brought his son to us, we would never have been in this hole we are in. All I got from Zef back then was "what has Cleary done" blah blah blah. Instead, we extend Des only to sack him later for a massive payout, but not before he buries our SC and it takes us 5 years and 2 rookie coaches to get to where we are (back to back to back spoons). Next time..... fekking listen to Dr Marki. Oh get real. The Cleary we would’ve got in 2016 is the Cleary the Tigers got who loaded up their cap with Mbye and Reynolds and Packer who they’re still paying for, not the Cleary who got the club Gus built. And he didn’t get the Tigers Junior either nor were ever going to nor was anyone else no matter who Senior coached. If we got him for 2016, you would’ve been calling for his sacking about mid 2017 because he would not have done in 5 years with our cap what he’s been able to do achieve at The Panthers, which is credit to him, but don’t try and kid any of us you’d be still patiently giving him time at The Dogs when he couldn’t do it here, nor at The Tigers, nor anywhere else he’s coached really. You really don't like giving him credit. This the same bloke that took Warriors to a GF. Warriors! The team no one wants to coach. Had we got him, yes we would have kept Reynolds. We probably nab Nathan a year later and all of a sudden our team has a spine of Mbye, JR, Nathan and who knows who our hooker would be (but certainly not Lichaa). It's very convenient to say he inherited the team Gus and Griffin built, but you forget he was at Penrith before Gus found him "tired" and knew some of the lower graders already. What Gus did with the lower grades there was very fruitful but you still need a head coach to make decision to pick 17 on gameday. He also brought the best out of his son more than any coach could. Don't underestimate that. A 6 and 7 of JR and Cleary would have been good for us and no way would have us at the bottom of the ladder I gove him credit Marki, but it took him 10 years and 300 odd games to here. And even now, his career has more failures than auccess’s. You would not have given him anywhere near the time, don’t try and shit me. Especially if he came to The Dogs in 16 he’d still be trying. He’d be loooooong gone under your watch.
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Zef
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+xValidity in what you both say. How do you address it is the question. What is there to address is the question. In any EBA there are employees overpaid and employees underpaid. I work with both, you probably do too. And in regards to the min cap, it’s still the players money no matter how worthy or unworthy anyone thinks under law. TheNRL don’t tell the clubs who to sign or not, but once they have they have to give them their money
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Marki
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+x+xI blame Zef for all this coz back in 2016 when I wanted Des sacked for Ivan Cleary, who would have brought his son to us, we would never have been in this hole we are in. All I got from Zef back then was "what has Cleary done" blah blah blah. Instead, we extend Des only to sack him later for a massive payout, but not before he buries our SC and it takes us 5 years and 2 rookie coaches to get to where we are (back to back to back spoons). Next time..... fekking listen to Dr Marki. Oh get real. The Cleary we would’ve got in 2016 is the Cleary the Tigers got who loaded up their cap with Mbye and Reynolds and Packer who they’re still paying for, not the Cleary who got the club Gus built. And he didn’t get the Tigers Junior either nor were ever going to nor was anyone else no matter who Senior coached. If we got him for 2016, you would’ve been calling for his sacking about mid 2017 because he would not have done in 5 years with our cap what he’s been able to do achieve at The Panthers, which is credit to him, but don’t try and kid any of us you’d be still patiently giving him time at The Dogs when he couldn’t do it here, nor at The Tigers, nor anywhere else he’s coached really. You really don't like giving him credit. This the same bloke that took Warriors to a GF. Warriors! The team no one wants to coach. Had we got him, yes we would have kept Reynolds. We probably nab Nathan a year later and all of a sudden our team has a spine of Mbye, JR, Nathan and who knows who our hooker would be (but certainly not Lichaa). It's very convenient to say he inherited the team Gus and Griffin built, but you forget he was at Penrith before Gus found him "tired" and knew some of the lower graders already. What Gus did with the lower grades there was very fruitful but you still need a head coach to make decision to pick 17 on gameday. He also brought the best out of his son more than any coach could. Don't underestimate that. A 6 and 7 of JR and Cleary would have been good for us and no way would have us at the bottom of the ladder
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Mooloolabadog
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWow 360 tonight was vicious. Rothfield, Kent and Anasta all had knives sticking out of Goulds back but as usual, only surmising they what is going on behind the scenes at the Dogs. One more reason for the club to pull together, turn it around, and prove the critics wrong. I do think questions must be asked. Fifth season since Des, two coaches, nearly 100 games, many players purchased, past our salary cap constraints and running last again. Very hard to argue we are not under performing. About time the situation was addressed by the board and what they see as acceptable performance and any action they propose and communicated to us supporters. This can't go on. Gus on Twitter seems happy about us signing some dude from Fiji. By round 10 I'll decide my opinion on Baz. Beyond that Gus is making the calls and this is his first season on deck. The board can leave football matters to the football department, for now. I'll make the call on on Gus at the end of 2024, but if Gus hasn't fixed our problems, we may as well quit footy and join a netball comp. People at board level making calls on football matters is part of how we got in this mess. The other part is looking for quick fixes and not building a strong base. My understanding of what Gus is trying to do is exactly what I would do. The point im making is we're moving at the speed of a thousand snails. I hope and expect it will get better. Can't get worse than last. I just expected a little more incremental improvement. As for the board they make the most fundamental decisions such as coach selection. A bit more oversight by the board and we wouldn't have been in the salary cap predicament we we were. I very much agree MDOG, the rebuild has taken eternity. I always thought we had the best administration and would rectify a poor season or two in quicker time than most other clubs. I don't withbagree with HD that our admin was poor in the years from 1996 to 2004. I thought it was one if the best. It's around about 2005-2006 where it started going downhill. It's amazing that we find ourselves 18 years since our last premiership and 10 years since we last had a legitimate top 4 team. I think it proves our clubs ideology of trying to tap into performances of the 80s is flawed. It just doesnt worknin the modern game. We still haven't fixed this and still ignore having our spine as highest paid players. Gus makes numerous references to this which somewhat pleases me but at the same time, I feel we are still another 3 years of rectifying it. Don't forget the salary cap scandal and oasis. The players from 2004 were in the system for a long time, the club had a strong culture from the 1980s and 1990s. IMO the football department continued to perform for a while with crappy admin. But we had players like Steve Price who was from the earlier era. I will be fairly objective here and say that our 80s success was based on us being one of the best of the non professional era. In the era of professional rugby league and salary cap, we arent really all that good. But I honestly believe we are our own worst enemies on this. We continue to spend large chunks of the cap on forwards who aren't marketable and don't entice any 3rd party deals. Further, they don't put bums on seats or sell a million jerseys. We were huge in the 80’s because Bullfrog could spot talent and afford to pay for it with our great leagues club.
We need to go back to when we paid whatever we could for the best in the game. And spot the best young spine players in the juniors and offer them more money and the best coaching etc.
Fuck the salary cap. Fuck the media. Fuck the NRL. Buy the fucking comp! And get me a fucking beer. Yep, after the super lesgue war, the rules changed diluting the advantage of a leagues club. But it is also true that post Bullfrog the financial management of the club and leagues club got sloppy. In the 80s snd into the 90s out scouting was the best in the business, as shown by the great players be brought through the grades, the last one being Thurston and we can see a real drop off after that. I think things are now better. Chris Anderson going to Melbourne was also huge, they got Kimmorley and Hill who might have gone to the Dogs, also a some of our talented lower graders. We did very well to recover from that and be competitive 2002-2005. In terms of scouting and development most clubs copied our playbook, many of our scouts and their networks were recruited. Under Des our scouting, juniors, player development and lower grades in general went backwards. For many reasons not all do to with Des, harmony and unity in the club went backwards. In many areas we went from being the best in the league in the 1980s, to the worst in the league by 2017. We had lots of rubbish players in all grades and not a lot of exciting young talent coming through. We also haven't had a proper halfback since noddy was unfortunately injured or a decent hooker since we punted Ennis. Our forward pack 2018-2021 was the worst in the league, and a pale imitation of our traditional strength. But Gus is focused on getting us back to where we should be. I think that the worst is behind us, but it is taking time for that to register in the NRL wins column. We know why, we are missing quality players in a few key positions. But we do have a lot of exciting young talent coming through the grades, more than any time since 2000. Lets not forget the elephant in the room "the minimum cap floor". I struggle to think of a more damaging guideline introduced by the NRL that can have such adverse effect to poor performing clubs entrenched to the bottom of the table. It is seriously the most stupid thing ever conceived. It has made sure we have overpaid our hacks in the period of 2016-2021 and instead of allowing us to clean up our SC mess, it exacerbated it. NRL morons. If they are serious about helping the bottom clubs, they should not enforce the minimum cap floor on the bottom 4 clubs The minimum cap is part of the EBA with players Union so that the players get their cut of the game’s revenue. The grant money handed to the clubs to use on the cap is not the club’s money to “spend” or “save” it’s the players money and they must be payed it. Hence the minimum cap. It’s the players money, simple as that. Validity in what you both say. How do you address it is the question.
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hounddog
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+xThat's right hd, TBaz thought Flanagan was a good fit for his gameplan, except his gameplan sucks and should thrown in the bin. Since the Gusgate incident the players might put a bit more effort in. You will be pleased to know Gus is a fan of direct service to the halves. I focus on the squad rather than the coach, our squad still needs to be improved, but young guys coming through the grades are most of the answer. IMO the Roosters punted Flanagan we thought that he might come good and was worth the gamble. The jury is still out it could go either way and no one knows how long it might take. But IMO beyond the game plan there is a lot Flanagan needs to fix. The problem isn't necessarily a lack of talent, more an instinct for the game and taking the right option at the right time. I would have signed Hastings and I would sign Sezer. Flanagan, Wakeham or BBO might eventually turn outbto be better players, but how long will it take? The pressure to be the man might not be helping the young guys. The older guy will have limitations, but should be more reliable and consistent. Next season Reed will make all of our halves look better. If we are not signing a half, the club thinks 9 is the problem.
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ODF
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That's right hd, TBaz thought Flanagan was a good fit for his gameplan, except his gameplan sucks and should thrown in the bin. Since the Gusgate incident the players might put a bit more effort in.
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hounddog
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+xMicko, Des is not the only one to blame, but his stupid idea of front ending massive contracts to attract players was poor. It crippled the club right up to the end of 2020. I don't think the Anderdon ticket faired any better, they were like cashed up kids in a candy shop. Hopefully the new board and admin can keep a cool head and sort this mess out fairly quickly. We were slightly cashed up making signings for this season, you can see that in the names, Burton, JAC, Naden, etc. Before that we were shopping at the reject shop. Flanno in particular was signed in the hope of long term potential, not a certain quick fix.
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ODF
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Micko, Des is not the only one to blame, but his stupid idea of front ending massive contracts to attract players was poor. It crippled the club right up to the end of 2020. I don't think the Anderdon ticket faired any better, they were like cashed up kids in a candy shop. Hopefully the new board and admin can keep a cool head and sort this mess out fairly quickly.
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hounddog
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWow 360 tonight was vicious. Rothfield, Kent and Anasta all had knives sticking out of Goulds back but as usual, only surmising they what is going on behind the scenes at the Dogs. One more reason for the club to pull together, turn it around, and prove the critics wrong. I do think questions must be asked. Fifth season since Des, two coaches, nearly 100 games, many players purchased, past our salary cap constraints and running last again. Very hard to argue we are not under performing. About time the situation was addressed by the board and what they see as acceptable performance and any action they propose and communicated to us supporters. This can't go on. Gus on Twitter seems happy about us signing some dude from Fiji. By round 10 I'll decide my opinion on Baz. Beyond that Gus is making the calls and this is his first season on deck. The board can leave football matters to the football department, for now. I'll make the call on on Gus at the end of 2024, but if Gus hasn't fixed our problems, we may as well quit footy and join a netball comp. People at board level making calls on football matters is part of how we got in this mess. The other part is looking for quick fixes and not building a strong base. My understanding of what Gus is trying to do is exactly what I would do. The point im making is we're moving at the speed of a thousand snails. I hope and expect it will get better. Can't get worse than last. I just expected a little more incremental improvement. As for the board they make the most fundamental decisions such as coach selection. A bit more oversight by the board and we wouldn't have been in the salary cap predicament we we were. I very much agree MDOG, the rebuild has taken eternity. I always thought we had the best administration and would rectify a poor season or two in quicker time than most other clubs. I don't withbagree with HD that our admin was poor in the years from 1996 to 2004. I thought it was one if the best. It's around about 2005-2006 where it started going downhill. It's amazing that we find ourselves 18 years since our last premiership and 10 years since we last had a legitimate top 4 team. I think it proves our clubs ideology of trying to tap into performances of the 80s is flawed. It just doesnt worknin the modern game. We still haven't fixed this and still ignore having our spine as highest paid players. Gus makes numerous references to this which somewhat pleases me but at the same time, I feel we are still another 3 years of rectifying it. The problems started when Des left. Micko, the problems started when Des arrived. The extent of the damage was exposed when Des left, and a series of blunders at admin level since has failed to rectify the damage. That’s just crap. That is the excuse made by every board. And it is very clearly political spin.
Des had control of the football operations of the club for only a few years. In that time does anybody really believe the juniors were so severely ignored that it cost us any great players. That is the main point Des haters push. And it’s simple to fix. In less than a couple of years. Remember our junior base is tiny compared to most.
The only other point was the salary cap. If we were over by so much than we had two choices. Either promote juniors or buy decent first graders cheap. We did both poorly.
Des signed Trex on decent coin. But he was an Australian rep player. He didn’t let go Finucane who asked to leave. Barba was his own problem. Cook was let go by Saints before us and most believe Lucia was a future rep hooker from his junior days.
Des also could have been overruled by the board if the contracts were so far out of control. Its stupid to blame him. He was the scapegoat for two boards that failed. And he is still the scapegoat for our fans. It’s just stupid.
In life you own your mistakes. Our club needs to do exactly this. And our fans need to do the same. There is a lot more to it than that. How many really talented lower graders transitioned to NRL in the time Des was here? How many hacks did we sign? Players let go too early - Pritchard, Cook, Ennis . Players used in entirely the wrong way, Lichaa, Reynolds. Good reilable spine players signed or developed - zero. Spine players. Are you kidding? Hodkinson signed by Des. Perrett signed by Des. Reynolds and Barba both playing off the bench or in reserves in different positions until Des. Other than the cheating chickens what team signed great spine players instead of us when Des was coach?
Licha was a hooker and was used there. Reynolds was a 5/8th and was used there. Both by Des.
Pritchard did what when let go? Ennis certainly but most believed Licha was the next top hooker. He was the best young rake in the game. Cook was offered a contract but only the great Marki could have picked that he was going to be a superstar. 😉
Who are these hacks we signed? Who didn’t make it from our juniors because of Des and signed elsewhere.
You have to look past the bias. Des isn’t to blame.
Des tried to turn Lichaa into an 80 minute player and completely stuffed up his game . I blame Des and those running the club for the mess. Most of the better players were from the squad assembled by more or in our lower grades when Des got herr. Taupau another clanger, ultimately replaced by Woods. I think Des can coach but keep him well away from recruitment and retention and cap management. Prior to thus season it looks like our main signing critera 2019-2021 was price, we were shopping in the bargin bin with very few good lower graders. Or in other words, a total mess. Name one player we signed 2019-2021 that was an in demand player first choice at their club for their position. Ironically Cotric is probably the one. And he seemed like a good signing at the time. You still didn’t answer the questions. But no need. You don’t like Des.
To answer yours. Licha was a great defender. And had a good running game. But simply didn’t cut it in first grade. I don’t think it’s fair to blame that entirely on Des.
Tapau was ordinary in most teams he played and dropped plenty of ball. That said I would sign him. Just not for what he got paid by the Tigers. Can’t blame Des for him getting more than we can afford.
Agreed Des is a great coach but shouldn’t have the final say in recruitment, retention and juniors.
As for our signings from 19-21 they were decent. But clearly coached poorly. That’s not Des’s fault. Also our reserve grade were great during that time. And most were let go or went untried during the Pay years.
My main point is fans need to give Gus more time. It will take as long as it takes, if he can't fix it, no one can. Des was only 25% of the problem, but the facts are the club was in reasonable shape 2011/2012 and a total shambles by 2017/2018. I can't remember any club other than Parra being in such a mess. Lichaa was a running 9 and Reynolds was an ideal 14. Lichaa bulked up, slowed down, did a lot less running. Taupau going killed off our most likely running opportunity for Lichaa. We had a great pack of forwards and didn't need T-Rex. Foran wasn't what we needed.
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Zef
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWow 360 tonight was vicious. Rothfield, Kent and Anasta all had knives sticking out of Goulds back but as usual, only surmising they what is going on behind the scenes at the Dogs. One more reason for the club to pull together, turn it around, and prove the critics wrong. I do think questions must be asked. Fifth season since Des, two coaches, nearly 100 games, many players purchased, past our salary cap constraints and running last again. Very hard to argue we are not under performing. About time the situation was addressed by the board and what they see as acceptable performance and any action they propose and communicated to us supporters. This can't go on. Gus on Twitter seems happy about us signing some dude from Fiji. By round 10 I'll decide my opinion on Baz. Beyond that Gus is making the calls and this is his first season on deck. The board can leave football matters to the football department, for now. I'll make the call on on Gus at the end of 2024, but if Gus hasn't fixed our problems, we may as well quit footy and join a netball comp. People at board level making calls on football matters is part of how we got in this mess. The other part is looking for quick fixes and not building a strong base. My understanding of what Gus is trying to do is exactly what I would do. The point im making is we're moving at the speed of a thousand snails. I hope and expect it will get better. Can't get worse than last. I just expected a little more incremental improvement. As for the board they make the most fundamental decisions such as coach selection. A bit more oversight by the board and we wouldn't have been in the salary cap predicament we we were. I very much agree MDOG, the rebuild has taken eternity. I always thought we had the best administration and would rectify a poor season or two in quicker time than most other clubs. I don't withbagree with HD that our admin was poor in the years from 1996 to 2004. I thought it was one if the best. It's around about 2005-2006 where it started going downhill. It's amazing that we find ourselves 18 years since our last premiership and 10 years since we last had a legitimate top 4 team. I think it proves our clubs ideology of trying to tap into performances of the 80s is flawed. It just doesnt worknin the modern game. We still haven't fixed this and still ignore having our spine as highest paid players. Gus makes numerous references to this which somewhat pleases me but at the same time, I feel we are still another 3 years of rectifying it. Don't forget the salary cap scandal and oasis. The players from 2004 were in the system for a long time, the club had a strong culture from the 1980s and 1990s. IMO the football department continued to perform for a while with crappy admin. But we had players like Steve Price who was from the earlier era. I will be fairly objective here and say that our 80s success was based on us being one of the best of the non professional era. In the era of professional rugby league and salary cap, we arent really all that good. But I honestly believe we are our own worst enemies on this. We continue to spend large chunks of the cap on forwards who aren't marketable and don't entice any 3rd party deals. Further, they don't put bums on seats or sell a million jerseys. We were huge in the 80’s because Bullfrog could spot talent and afford to pay for it with our great leagues club.
We need to go back to when we paid whatever we could for the best in the game. And spot the best young spine players in the juniors and offer them more money and the best coaching etc.
Fuck the salary cap. Fuck the media. Fuck the NRL. Buy the fucking comp! And get me a fucking beer. Yep, after the super lesgue war, the rules changed diluting the advantage of a leagues club. But it is also true that post Bullfrog the financial management of the club and leagues club got sloppy. In the 80s snd into the 90s out scouting was the best in the business, as shown by the great players be brought through the grades, the last one being Thurston and we can see a real drop off after that. I think things are now better. Chris Anderson going to Melbourne was also huge, they got Kimmorley and Hill who might have gone to the Dogs, also a some of our talented lower graders. We did very well to recover from that and be competitive 2002-2005. In terms of scouting and development most clubs copied our playbook, many of our scouts and their networks were recruited. Under Des our scouting, juniors, player development and lower grades in general went backwards. For many reasons not all do to with Des, harmony and unity in the club went backwards. In many areas we went from being the best in the league in the 1980s, to the worst in the league by 2017. We had lots of rubbish players in all grades and not a lot of exciting young talent coming through. We also haven't had a proper halfback since noddy was unfortunately injured or a decent hooker since we punted Ennis. Our forward pack 2018-2021 was the worst in the league, and a pale imitation of our traditional strength. But Gus is focused on getting us back to where we should be. I think that the worst is behind us, but it is taking time for that to register in the NRL wins column. We know why, we are missing quality players in a few key positions. But we do have a lot of exciting young talent coming through the grades, more than any time since 2000. Lets not forget the elephant in the room "the minimum cap floor". I struggle to think of a more damaging guideline introduced by the NRL that can have such adverse effect to poor performing clubs entrenched to the bottom of the table. It is seriously the most stupid thing ever conceived. It has made sure we have overpaid our hacks in the period of 2016-2021 and instead of allowing us to clean up our SC mess, it exacerbated it. NRL morons. If they are serious about helping the bottom clubs, they should not enforce the minimum cap floor on the bottom 4 clubs The minimum cap is part of the EBA with players Union so that the players get their cut of the game’s revenue. The grant money handed to the clubs to use on the cap is not the club’s money to “spend” or “save” it’s the players money and they must be payed it. Hence the minimum cap. It’s the players money, simple as that.
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Zef
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+xI blame Zef for all this coz back in 2016 when I wanted Des sacked for Ivan Cleary, who would have brought his son to us, we would never have been in this hole we are in. All I got from Zef back then was "what has Cleary done" blah blah blah. Instead, we extend Des only to sack him later for a massive payout, but not before he buries our SC and it takes us 5 years and 2 rookie coaches to get to where we are (back to back to back spoons). Next time..... fekking listen to Dr Marki. Oh get real. The Cleary we would’ve got in 2016 is the Cleary the Tigers got who loaded up their cap with Mbye and Reynolds and Packer who they’re still paying for, not the Cleary who got the club Gus built. And he didn’t get the Tigers Junior either nor were ever going to nor was anyone else no matter who Senior coached. If we got him for 2016, you would’ve been calling for his sacking about mid 2017 because he would not have done in 5 years with our cap what he’s been able to do achieve at The Panthers, which is credit to him, but don’t try and kid any of us you’d be still patiently giving him time at The Dogs when he couldn’t do it here, nor at The Tigers, nor anywhere else he’s coached really.
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Mooloolabadog
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+x+x+x+xSouths v Manly sin bin definately, send off, probably the wrong call. At least Des will be in a good mood in the presser. Tackle as dangerous as it gets. All his own doing, no shared responsibility. Happy with the send off Yes agreed. Lifted beyond horizontal, held on at all stages even though he could have pulled out, and worst of all drove him into ground and lifted his legs for extra oumph. As textbook spear tackle as you can get. Fortunately Murray overturned and twisted to his side to avoid direct neck compression. Could have been much worse. Send off every day of week. Agreed. Spear tackle that has been outlawed for many years. Could have broken his neck. Definitely send off.
But I don’t think there was intent. It was a classic lifting tackle and a near perfect one. Just unfortunately Murray flipped too far. This brings up a point. Personal foul versus a foul that affects the flow of the game. Could the player be punished but the team and the game not be ruined. Just a thought, open to opinions/suggestions.
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Mick O
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+x+x+xSouths v Manly sin bin definately, send off, probably the wrong call. At least Des will be in a good mood in the presser. Tackle as dangerous as it gets. All his own doing, no shared responsibility. Happy with the send off Yes agreed. Lifted beyond horizontal, held on at all stages even though he could have pulled out, and worst of all drove him into ground and lifted his legs for extra oumph. As textbook spear tackle as you can get. Fortunately Murray overturned and twisted to his side to avoid direct neck compression. Could have been much worse. Send off every day of week. Agreed. Spear tackle that has been outlawed for many years. Could have broken his neck. Definitely send off.
But I don’t think there was intent. It was a classic lifting tackle and a near perfect one. Just unfortunately Murray flipped too far.
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Mick O
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+xWow 360 tonight was vicious. Rothfield, Kent and Anasta all had knives sticking out of Goulds back but as usual, only surmising they what is going on behind the scenes at the Dogs. One more reason for the club to pull together, turn it around, and prove the critics wrong. I do think questions must be asked. Fifth season since Des, two coaches, nearly 100 games, many players purchased, past our salary cap constraints and running last again. Very hard to argue we are not under performing. About time the situation was addressed by the board and what they see as acceptable performance and any action they propose and communicated to us supporters. This can't go on. Gus on Twitter seems happy about us signing some dude from Fiji. By round 10 I'll decide my opinion on Baz. Beyond that Gus is making the calls and this is his first season on deck. The board can leave football matters to the football department, for now. I'll make the call on on Gus at the end of 2024, but if Gus hasn't fixed our problems, we may as well quit footy and join a netball comp. People at board level making calls on football matters is part of how we got in this mess. The other part is looking for quick fixes and not building a strong base. My understanding of what Gus is trying to do is exactly what I would do. The point im making is we're moving at the speed of a thousand snails. I hope and expect it will get better. Can't get worse than last. I just expected a little more incremental improvement. As for the board they make the most fundamental decisions such as coach selection. A bit more oversight by the board and we wouldn't have been in the salary cap predicament we we were. I very much agree MDOG, the rebuild has taken eternity. I always thought we had the best administration and would rectify a poor season or two in quicker time than most other clubs. I don't withbagree with HD that our admin was poor in the years from 1996 to 2004. I thought it was one if the best. It's around about 2005-2006 where it started going downhill. It's amazing that we find ourselves 18 years since our last premiership and 10 years since we last had a legitimate top 4 team. I think it proves our clubs ideology of trying to tap into performances of the 80s is flawed. It just doesnt worknin the modern game. We still haven't fixed this and still ignore having our spine as highest paid players. Gus makes numerous references to this which somewhat pleases me but at the same time, I feel we are still another 3 years of rectifying it. The problems started when Des left. Micko, the problems started when Des arrived. The extent of the damage was exposed when Des left, and a series of blunders at admin level since has failed to rectify the damage. That’s just crap. That is the excuse made by every board. And it is very clearly political spin.
Des had control of the football operations of the club for only a few years. In that time does anybody really believe the juniors were so severely ignored that it cost us any great players. That is the main point Des haters push. And it’s simple to fix. In less than a couple of years. Remember our junior base is tiny compared to most.
The only other point was the salary cap. If we were over by so much than we had two choices. Either promote juniors or buy decent first graders cheap. We did both poorly.
Des signed Trex on decent coin. But he was an Australian rep player. He didn’t let go Finucane who asked to leave. Barba was his own problem. Cook was let go by Saints before us and most believe Lucia was a future rep hooker from his junior days.
Des also could have been overruled by the board if the contracts were so far out of control. Its stupid to blame him. He was the scapegoat for two boards that failed. And he is still the scapegoat for our fans. It’s just stupid.
In life you own your mistakes. Our club needs to do exactly this. And our fans need to do the same. There is a lot more to it than that. How many really talented lower graders transitioned to NRL in the time Des was here? How many hacks did we sign? Players let go too early - Pritchard, Cook, Ennis . Players used in entirely the wrong way, Lichaa, Reynolds. Good reilable spine players signed or developed - zero. Spine players. Are you kidding? Hodkinson signed by Des. Perrett signed by Des. Reynolds and Barba both playing off the bench or in reserves in different positions until Des. Other than the cheating chickens what team signed great spine players instead of us when Des was coach?
Licha was a hooker and was used there. Reynolds was a 5/8th and was used there. Both by Des.
Pritchard did what when let go? Ennis certainly but most believed Licha was the next top hooker. He was the best young rake in the game. Cook was offered a contract but only the great Marki could have picked that he was going to be a superstar. 😉
Who are these hacks we signed? Who didn’t make it from our juniors because of Des and signed elsewhere.
You have to look past the bias. Des isn’t to blame.
Des tried to turn Lichaa into an 80 minute player and completely stuffed up his game . I blame Des and those running the club for the mess. Most of the better players were from the squad assembled by more or in our lower grades when Des got herr. Taupau another clanger, ultimately replaced by Woods. I think Des can coach but keep him well away from recruitment and retention and cap management. Prior to thus season it looks like our main signing critera 2019-2021 was price, we were shopping in the bargin bin with very few good lower graders. Or in other words, a total mess. Name one player we signed 2019-2021 that was an in demand player first choice at their club for their position. Ironically Cotric is probably the one. And he seemed like a good signing at the time. You still didn’t answer the questions. But no need. You don’t like Des.
To answer yours. Licha was a great defender. And had a good running game. But simply didn’t cut it in first grade. I don’t think it’s fair to blame that entirely on Des.
Tapau was ordinary in most teams he played and dropped plenty of ball. That said I would sign him. Just not for what he got paid by the Tigers. Can’t blame Des for him getting more than we can afford.
Agreed Des is a great coach but shouldn’t have the final say in recruitment, retention and juniors.
As for our signings from 19-21 they were decent. But clearly coached poorly. That’s not Des’s fault. Also our reserve grade were great during that time. And most were let go or went untried during the Pay years.
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Marki
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+x+xSouths v Manly sin bin definately, send off, probably the wrong call. At least Des will be in a good mood in the presser. Tackle as dangerous as it gets. All his own doing, no shared responsibility. Happy with the send off Yes agreed. Lifted beyond horizontal, held on at all stages even though he could have pulled out, and worst of all drove him into ground and lifted his legs for extra oumph. As textbook spear tackle as you can get. Fortunately Murray overturned and twisted to his side to avoid direct neck compression. Could have been much worse. Send off every day of week.
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Mick O
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Looking at the future. Mahoney and Kikau are great signings. The Canberra bloke is solid. Hopefully turns into another King signing.
Still need a halfback. Gus has said the half is at the club. And it’s about developing him. Who knows who that is.
Still need a fullback. Desperate for somebody that offers good support. Unless Dufty continues his form.
I can’t see how else we can improve the team without spending huge over the cap. And we look like getting the spoon.
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