Who do we think will be the squad for the first home test come 21 November? 

Warner starts for mine as his record in Australia is still very good. Burns opens with him. Three is a toss up between Khawaja and Labuschagne. I do think Labuschagne is more a long term 5. 4 is obvious. At 5 Travis Head still averages in the 40s in test cricket. Whilst he had some technical flaws exposed is it better to send him back to sheild or bat him in the home summer and get runs on the board. 6 depends the pitch between Mitch Marsh and Wade or bringing in someone new like a Pucovski. 7 will be Paine. Cummins, Hazlewood and Lyon locks with the ball. Last spot between Starc and Pattinson. Do we contain to rotate quicks?

So for me Ill say we'll see the following against Pakistan

Warner
Burns
Labuschagne
Smith
Head
M.Marsh/Wade/Pucovski
Paine
Cummins
Starc
Lyon
Hazlewood

Obviously Burns is the only real new face from the Ashes squad. 

Starc over Patto? 

Interesting decision there. 

I hope when NZ tour they face Starc, Haze and Marsh in the team. I am not sure they will face more than simply Haze tbh.

Id personally go Pattinson but I think selectors go Starc

I hear that. I have the same concerns over a spinner or Henry in Aus and not the pace of Ferg.

I have my own view of what's best, but I also feel the pulse of the selectors differing opinion...

Do you think Pucovski might come in for Head at 5? Or put him at 6 and shuffle Wade up to 5. I reckon they’ll give him a crack, in any case. 

Pucovski needs to score runs consistently in the Shield first. 

I seem to remember  they selected Michael Clark based on potential though.  I don't think he had scored a lot of FC runs when he first played test cricket.

i hope we play starc/patt every other test. Not sure why siddle was played this test. Its not like for like

Depends on the pitch for Starc or Pattison, if its flat give me Starc.

Yeah having 4 quicks for 3 spots might negate some need for an allrounder

Why Warner RK? We have to look at the future. Warner is now not part of that future. He has just come off possibly the worst performance by an Australian ever in England. Yet Langer says he will come good now he is home. Of course he will on our flat drop ins. Ponting also has him as a lock for the summer.

Pattinson or Jhye Richarson for Starc. I'd like to see Alex Carey given his debut. Play him as batsman only as Paine remains skipper and keeper for the summer. Then he will likely hand over the reins to his deputy and retire. Is this a pink ball game? If so I want someone more solid in the middle order with Smithy. Maybe Patterson.. Head has shown his frailties against the moving ball in England. Sorry with him at #5 there is a brittleness shud early wickets fall. But I can see CA retaining the SAussie as he is also v/c and he has a decent home record.  #6 definitely is problematic. Depends on who is in the best red ball form leading into the series. Regardless I want Pucovski in the squad. He needs to be blooded on the Aussie decks he knows.

Warner is the worst 5 test result haul ever for an opening batsman, a former NZ player has been spared the record now. 

The problem with the batting squads is you're making them so large. 1 Warner, 2 Opener X, 3 Khawaja, 4 Smith, 5 Labushagne, 6 Head, 7 Wade, now you add in 8 Carey and 9 Pucovski - that's a lot of batsmen, and a lot of rotation of batsmen. Then there's the 10 Mitch Marsh situation. That's 10 people jostling for 6 spots. That's a lot of instability. 

I think having a big squad of bowlers is healthy, they get injured a lot, tired, different skills for different pitch types as spin, vs seam, vs bounce, but less so for the batsmen. What is the message you are sending to them? Everyone bar Smith is replaceable?  Well that is at this stage more than a little true. But Wade and Labu need to be congratulated and rewarded with more matches based on their performances don't they?

The Warner question is a dilemma.


Given the worst ever performance for an opening batter over 5 Tests overseas,  when before this series he averaged mid  thirties abroad, which must now be  below 30 -  as opposed to his domestic test record where he averaged about 55 before his ban, it could be a case where he is okay again at home this imminent summer, but will l in all likelihood fail again as an opener  when we travel abroad in the future.

Who is a better opening option - Renshaw, Burns, Harris, Uancroft, Usman, or even the batter I see live a lot , Doolan, with arguably a better recent domestic record?

None are bashing the door down with domestic FC runs.

Would Warner be any better played at number 5 or 6, where he would not have to face as new a ball, as often?

The Warner problem continues.

Even if he comes good, he probably won't when we travel abroad again.

What is Carey's domestic FC batting record?

Is he a better keeper than Nevill and the reserve NSW keeper whose name you know? 

Carey is now seen as heir apparent to the national gloves. After all he does now hold the domestic red ball keeping record. There are some decent keepers now behind him. His FC record is not earth shattering but how can you get momentum in your game when you have only played 32 matches in 6 years. Tim Ludeman kept him out of the Redback side for too long. Carey has the ability to improve his red ball average by at least @10 imho. Nevill now has age against him if the national selectors are looking at a long term gloveman. Baxter Holt and any other young emerging keepers will have to bide their time

The problem IMO is that his keeping (Carey) doesn't seem up to it, not so much his batting (I doubt he will be any better than Paine anyway). While Paine didn't have a great series keeping to the quicks, England can be a tough place to keep to fast bowling, and he is an excellent keeper to spin. Paine is going to be there for a while I think (rightly), apart from injury.

Welcome to the forum flyslip. Paine is and will likely always be a better keeper than Carey. Few would be, specially when the Tasmanian was in his prime. Fact is there are no other keepers banging on the door. So Carey it is when Tim hangs up the gloves at end of this summer.. is my guess.

Thanks BaggGreens.

I get the feeling that Carey is being pushed to the fore with fans because of batting well at the World Cup. Yet I thought his keeping was average and making runs there doesn't necessarily translate to test cricket.

Though we often do get players into test cricket via odi, unless we find a Gilchrist we should go with the best keeper IMO. As you say, Paine it is.

*BaggyGreens*

Sorry about the spelling.

Call me Baggers.

Welcome to the forum, Flyslip.

I think Starc offered something different when he played in the 4th Ashes test.

Based on talent and technique I agree with you, Baggers.

 But he needs to perform more consistently in red ball FC cricket before he is selected.

You mean 14 matches @42.6 with a perfect conversion rate.. 3 tons three 50s. With a top score of 243. I call that consistent DC.

That is pretty good and quite consistent.

I stand corrected.

Thanks for posting it.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/yes/big-thumbs-up-smiley-emoticon.gif

wont let you do gifs tho.

Burns will be stop gap at best IMO but will probably get a run due to the abject failure of our openers in England, and no one else really seemingly deserving. This will be against the consensus and isn't backed by scores (it's more an intuitive thing), but the only opener from the Ashes tour that looks worthwhile persisting with is Bancroft IMO. He was done a favour in being dropped when he was, as the poms had it all over him, but I still think there is something there. He really fights and values his wicket, despite the problem playing around his front pad. He didn't score big, but generally saw off a lot of balls (I did read somewhere he averaged 65 deliveries per innings). Seems to have a great temperament for an opener.

Wade has surely earned a summer at 6 after a couple of Ashes centuries. That innings in the 5th test was as gutsy as it gets.

The only way M Marsh should be selected is as a bowler, batting at no.8. It's unlikely he is good enough to do this. He would make an excellent lower order batsman, but he isn't good enough to be in the top 6. If they select him at 6 again, they (selectors) need therapy. A shame our supporters get a bit down on him, he seems a nice young fella and it isn't his fault that our selectors have some delusion that he is Keith Miller.

Head seems another quick scoring lefty without a great defensive technique, which won't be as big a problem on our flat wickets. Wouldn't mind seeing Pucovski get a run at 5 but it probably won't happen. He might have to wait for an injury to one of the incumbents.

Think our best attack is Hazlewood and Pattinson opening with Cummins first change. Wouldn't mind seeing Richardson next in the pecking order, should one of them break down, or be rotated. Starc bowled reasonably well (ie. did't go for as many as expected) when he got his chance, but is generally a bit like Brett Lee IMO, great odi bowler but generally not tight enough for test cricket. Should keep him for specific conditions.

Disagree. Hazlewood and Cummins proved they are our best strike bowlers in the Ashes. Still that was England and the decks seamed with the new Dukes.  I am fine having Haze first change on the Aussie flat drop ins. These days he is far better with the older ball. Pattinson and Jhye Richardson make up rest of out pace attack. This foursome has the  potential to develop into a world class attack.

the only opener from the Ashes tour that looks worthwhile persisting with is Bancroft IMO. He was done a favour in being dropped when he was, as the poms had it all over him, but I still think there is something there. He really fights and values his wicket, despite the problem playing around his front pad.
Agree. He does tho have to eradicate that tech flaw before he can really cement an opening spot. Two years ago I named Bancroft and Renshaw as our long term openers..I still feel they will be unless some outstanding young turk comes along before they establish themselves. Renshaw has not been able to buy a run in the past 12 months.. his loss of form has been baffling. I want to see him absolutely own the first four Shield rounds and force himself into the opening spot for the first Paki test.

I think they had detected Bancroft's technical  flaw in South Africa  before he ball tampered. 

Yep so what was he doing to correct it while on suspension? It is holding back his career.

I'm not sure Hazlewood and Pattinson is our best opening attack?

Our best opening attack is probably Cummins as one of the new ball bowlers, but he is probably  better than all the others  with an older ball, so  he  ends up being first change.

Can not see why Cummins wont open and bowl with the older ball. On our flat drop ins I am fine for Hazlewood to be first change. You need your quickest bowlers with the new cherry to extract whatever life is in the deck. That is Cummins and Pattinson most probably..tho doubt CA is ready to jettison Starc just yet.

I can at least see some logic in Starc opening instead of Pattinson, depending on specific conditions. Though I don't necessarily agree with it. 
I think he is another Brett Lee, great odi bowler, too loose for test cricket.

Now you and I are starting to see the same things... :)

The attempted logic being that Hazlewood is the best new ball bowler we have (IMO and very arguable of course) while Pattinson seems to have everything covered with the new ball. Pace seam and or swing. Not used enough in the Ashes I think. Though I wouldn't argue too much, he hasn't been back all that long and might simply fall away anyway.

Cummins is exceptional with the older ball, would get it inside 10 overs anyway, but probably doesn't do as much with a new ball as Pattinson will. Cummins has said that he actually prefers being first change bowler, and as you say he's probably the best around with an older ball. I also worry whether Pattinson will take much donkey work before breaking down again. Although that probably shouldn't be a major consideration as you obviously can't base an attack off who might break down lol.

I'd like to see Queensland openers  Renshaw and Burns hit early season domestic form in the Shield.

I don't know enough about it, but some think Burns might be better suited to middle order batting. I still can't believe he has already scored 4 centuries in 15 tests! It looks quite impressive on paper, but he must have got out for a lot of low scores as well. 

Burns probably suffers a bit of prejudice from that match at Bellerieve where the Saffers rolled us by an innings and plenty for our fifth straight loss. The one where our "high performance Manager" (in)famously found his way into the change room and explained "we don't pay you to play, we pay you to win". Seemed quite the generous man paying our players like that out of his own pocket and quite sage advice too on the off chance they didn't realise that winning was the objective, or weren't already feeling dejected enough lol.

Burns had a 0 and 1, but also failed in SL before that. Along with him, Voges and Neville...Ferguson and Mennie also got dropped after one test match careers. Was a big clean out.

Although he is the only one of that group picked since, it's been sporadic/stopgap. 

He could be better down the order but has some better players to displace there. Labuschagne and Smith are locks, they'll probably stick with Head at 5 (as they should). Wade just scored two centuries. Although he didn't do much in between he had some bad luck too. A horrible umpiring decision that was just shaving leg stump on drs and should never have been given, another one hit his foot and gently rolled back just enough to dislodge a bail.

Realistically, and though I don't agree with it, I think there is only one batting possie up for grabs, an opener. So it would be great if Renshaw got amongst the runs.

In  the local press Wade thinks he will only retain his Test place if he scores early Shield runs.

I don't read too much into that. It's normal for anyone who isn't Steve Smith to begin with "if I'm selected" before a squad is announced. Have even heard Paine do it.

Though you never really know I suppose.

ps. A bit surprisingly, when given the chance Kahwaja has been our best opener over the last few years. If none of the other candidates do much, perhaps that's the way they'll go.

Does anyone have Usman's Test record as an opener compared to number 3?

I think Paddles posted it a while ago.

Whatever, Usman will probably do just well enough on bouncy, true, clear sky home pitches to retain his place in this season's home series, but will probably struggle again when we venture abroad.

I agree. Has always been a fringe player not consistent enough to nail down a possie. Probably because he isn't that good outside of Australia. Has an average of 96.8 as an opener over the last few years though, which isn't too shabby lol. Small sample size of course.That 145 against the saffers was an excellent innings against a pink ball moving around everywhere at Adelaide, from memory. Certainly stood up in the UAE, he was about the only one though. 

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2011-2019	44	77	6	2887	174	40.66	5711	50.55	8	14	4	312	15	Profile
filtered	2016-2019	5	7	2	484	145	96.80	979	49.43	2	2	0	40	1

Match by match list

Bat1	Bat2	Runs	BF	SR	4s	6s		Opposition	Ground	Start Date
145	-	145	308	47.07	12	0		v South Africa	Adelaide	24 Nov 2016	Test # 2236
-	79*	79	98	80.61	5	1		v Pakistan	Sydney	3 Jan 2017	Test # 2245
85	141	226	477	47.37	19	0		v Pakistan	Dubai (DSC)	7 Oct 2018	Test # 2320
3	-	3	13	23.07	0	0		v Pakistan	Abu Dhabi	16 Oct 2018	Test # 2322
27	4*	31	83	37.34	4	0		v India	Sydney	3 Jan 2019

The above amounts to the only times he has opened. Has a poorer record at no.3. The top row being his average, the bottom row his average at no.3.

Career averages

	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
unfiltered	2011-2019	44	77	6	2887	174	40.66	5711	50.55	8	14	4	312	15	Profile
filtered	2011-2019	38	66	3	2343	174	37.19	4573	51.23	6	12	3	270	12