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I would look at what you are talking about. For a joke), of course :)

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Yes, Spinners are play a very important role in test because it is a long format cricket and spinner plays a vital role for gain wickets. As you know today Cricket is very fast but in test cricket spinners much required..  As some time in T20 spin bowler turn the table. 

ps. How many teams have dominated world (test) cricket without exceptionally good fast bowlers?

Ever watch the Windies from about '75 to '95 lol?

Further examples are the local leagues like Big Bash League, IPL, PSL, BPL, and some other ones. There you can clearly see the effect of spinners in the game. One of the biggest sensations in the previous Pakistan Super League edition was Muhammad Nawaz from the Quetta Gladiators team who lead the team to victory after taking 5-wickets haul. The coming PSL 2020 hopes to produce even more talented spinners. That's the beauty of this famous sports. 

A completely different skill set really. Short form cricket requires accurate "dart throwers' who don't go for many runs. Test cricket is a different beast entirely. Good test spinners want the batsman attacking them. A battle between good batsmen and a good spinner on a turning 4-5th day pitch epitomises test cricket. It's actually more exciting (IMO) than watching the quicks on a seaming day 1 pitch.

Welcome john.. do hang around.

Yes. That's no doubt fact that Spinners are the backbone of a team regardless of the format. See the legendary Shane Warne who was indeed the backbone of the Australian cricket team. When the pacers are failed, spinners come to rescue. A good coach and a good selector always focus more on spinners than pacers. Pacers are good to control the game in the beginning but as the game progresses, spinners are necessary to further slow down the opposing team. Further examples are the local leagues like Big Bash League, IPL, PSL, BPL, and some other ones. There you can clearly see the effect of spinners in the game. One of the biggest sensations in the previous Pakistan Super League edition was Muhammad Nawaz from the Quetta Gladiators team who lead the team to victory after taking 5-wickets haul. The coming PSL 2020 hopes to produce even more talented spinners. That's the beauty of this famous sports. 

Australia has played 12 tests this year. So Lyon should easily be the highest wicket taker for a spinner this year - his only competition was going to be Moeen - and he was dropped early.

Overall figures

Team	Mat	Won	Lost	Tied	Draw	W/L	Ave	RPO	Inns	HS	LS
Australia	12	8	2	0	2	4.000	40.53	3.49	21	589	179
India	8	7	0	0	1	-	59.08	3.68	11	622	297
England	12	4	6	0	2	0.666	26.15	2.97	23	476	67
New Zealand	8	4	3	0	1	1.333	41.51	3.37	12	715	148
South Africa	8	3	5	0	0	0.600	25.29	3.30	16	431	128
Sri Lanka	8	3	4	0	1	0.750	24.88	3.05	15	308	122
West Indies	6	3	3	0	0	1.000	24.65	3.17	12	415	100
Afghanistan	3	2	1	0	0	2.000	25.88	2.89	6	342	120
Pakistan	6	1	4	0	1	0.250	32.03	3.60	11	555	177
Bangladesh	5	0	5	0	0	0.000	21.46	3.47	10	429	106
Ireland	2	0	2	0	0	0.000	17.62	3.10	4	288	38

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But the beauty of Lyon is that 33, enables Aus to play an extra batsman at 6. And not have to bother with an allrounder. That's Lyon's real value. And he is good enough to do this. India keep switching from 4 to 5 bowlers, the latter now cos they rate Jadeja's batting as good enough to bat 6, despite dropping Pant back for Saha. 

I love the strategy of team balance, but I firmly believe it comes down to available talent and what the current talent can handle. As India and SA completely keep rejinking there's - SA is now a spinner, 3 quicks and all rounder, India is different every game, can be 4 bowlers, can be allrounders, can be anything, noone ever knows who will bat 6 or 8... these days.

But for rain in Sydney - India would have been 8-0-0, scary to think...

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/18693/scorecard/1144996/australia-vs-india-4th-test-india-in-aus-2018-19

I look forward to their rematch series in Aus next year. Should be a good one. I think NZC is going to struggle a lot with Bumrah and Shami this summer. A lot.

Sorry to steal your thunder DC.

I was going to post this too. 

Thanks, Baggers. 

GOAT rightly points out that Warne never actively rested himself to give Stuart MacGill a game! 

Ashton Agar is a man of integrity. He musta been bitterly disappointed not being picked for the Sydney Test..seeing he has been the reserve spin option on three previous series. Still the left arm tweaker/ batsman shook it off and was full of praise for the man that got the nod.. Mitchell Swepson. Ashton has been selected tho for the short ODI tour of India by way of compensation.

Had a chuckle over Nathan Lyons response to a suggestion by Shane Warne for him to step aside for Mitchell Swepson to make his debut in Sydney. Lyon aint having any of it.. rebuking Warne's suggestion by saying did Shane ever step aside for Stu MacGill? No honor among our cricketers.. seems Lyon is following the edict by Dennis Lillee."Never give a sucker an even break.." 

Just when you are ready to say Lyon's best is behind him.. he pops up with consecutive four wicket 4th day hauls to seal the deal for both Tests. 

I think we are gaining great value from GOAT too. 

Warne pointed out in his action he gets more body into his action when he goes around the wicket. 

I would hope there is a spin bowling coach working with the Aus team who is remedying this, as his figures show he is more effective bowling to left hand batters. 

Lyon is the third highest wicket taker in Test cricket in the world this year, but has an average of about 33 per wicket. 

I think we are seeing the value of having a good spinner in Aus at the moment, with Lyon. Swann before him also. A good spinner is probably worthwhile anywhere. There might be an occasional wicket where it might be preferable to have all seamers though.

The problem is more whether it is worthwhile to always have a spinner, even if he is mediocre or can't play to the conditions. Probably not. 

Who's watching Eng v SA first test in SA?
England have gone no spinner.

Welcome to the forum, Anders.

Welcome to the forum, Keran.

Excellent post keran, say hi to flyslip for me as I wont msg him directly...


brb - watching the man fron snowy river :)

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It remembers me the last tournament of cricket. When I was watching abu dhabi t10 live channel last tournament, I thought that Qalandars team will not gonna make it and will not win a game. And honestly, they had pretty nice chances to do that, cause their coach told them to play with some new tactics, isn't it?.

Thanks for this, Lastbroadcast.

Why do you think Lyon bowls it less than he used to?

Yep, I love bowling it. I put my index finger down the seam and bowl with a slightly more round arm action. If you get it right the ball drifts away and doesn't spin. 

There's two ways to get wickets with it - either bowl it a bit quicker and try to smack them on the pad. Or, bowl it a bit more round arm - if they play a defensive shot they'll nick it to the slips. Or even better - if they charge it expecting it to spin, they can get stumped. 

I particularly love bowling it to left handers around the wicket. You bowl a few loopy off breaks and then slip in the arm ball just to see if they're paying attention - quite often they get hit on the pad plumb in front. And to right handers, you'd be amazed at how many times they'll run down and miss it. 

Lyon used to bowl it but not much any more. I think the guys with the best arm balls in recent times are Ravi Ashwin and Daniel Vettori. Especially Vettori - he used to vary the pace of his orthodox delivery a lot, so sometimes you couldn't tell if he was bowling a flatter off break or an arm ball until you got hit on the pads. 

You can see some examples here (especially the third wicket against Tim Ambrose) -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghvHXPv2z68

They change the grip, and typically the middle finger flicks the ball in delivery out imparting leg spin on it as it leaves the hand. Its was made famous by Mendis, from SL, who destroyed everyone in his first few series, including India, but he had no regular off spin and quickly became ineffectual as batsman just played the trajectory line. But there is a different tell with the carrom ball. 

Ashwin has a great carrom ball. NZ cricket fans got really excited last year when Mitch Santner bowled a couple in an odi series. It has a big giveaway with the finger popping up though from the hand. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSgBOiG7eLc

Mendis (this is when it becomes famous circa 2008

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT1G10wvzp8

Here Mujeeb was destroying NZ in U19's including carrom balls, his were't turning much that day,  but Elliot talks how to pick the carrom ball, and Mendis last test. Basically spin bowlers who knew how to bowl it told batsmen what to look for. 

As a fan, watching Santner bowl it, from the camera behind, I know instantly if I am paying attention, cos his grip is totally different - looks like a  heavy metal hand gesture almost. Tbh, I am too blind to see the leg spinner variations in real time. So it is easier to read.

The tell for the batsman, is the finger flicking it - because the hand front on goes form a two finger grip to a third, as the middle finger reappears after flicking. But Santner, being tall with big hands, gets more turn than most carrom ball bwolers, long fingers means more turn. 

Its a very good limited overs variation, but not really effective in tests anymore as you have to bowl it so rarely to catch the batsman off guard. 

I know what a doosra is.

What is the carrom ball?

Lyon has one, but rarely uses it. Its an easy ball to bowl, difficult to conceal depending on action. Dan Vettori was a much more famous exponent of it getting genuine swing, but after back surguries young his career, he couldnt spin his stock ball far at all.

Afridi and Shane Thomson have both bowled bouncers in test cricket from a spinners run up. Afridi could generate 130km/h plsu and Thommo was a former fast bowler. Its ineffective for the most part, but THommo once got Tendulkar caught on the boundary who hooked it. 

The doosra, now almost illegal in every form, and the carrom ball are the real chance for an off spinner to vary and decieve. What lyon does, is mix up the over spin with the offf spin, which will change the turn, the pitching and the bounce. THe more over spin you impart, the shorter it pitches but more it turns. A cutting off spinner without over spin can only vary revs or bowl arm balls, so they have less the aresenal. But with accuracy like Jadeja, things can still happen great in your career. A cutter gets a lot more spin than an over spin bowler. 

Murali of course had every single finger spin delivery. Just a genius. He had been playing intl cricket for years before the doosra came out, but he learned it fast. He could also bowl leg spin, like Ashwin can. There are  abunch oif AFG and SL spinners comming through now that are bowling both finger spin and leg spin variations all the time in games. I think this is the future, tbh.