Obviously this is being driven by existing NPL clubs, because they stepped into the breach since the FFA hasn't been driving things forward, but I hope they do leave room in the structure for some new-build clubs. Depending on A-League expansion there are openings for new second division clubs in places like Hobart, Canberra, Townsville, Dandenong, Geelong and Penrith, which currently don't have any NPL clubs capable of making the step up. They could join in with the more established NPL clubs in the major cities.

But when the AAFC pull stunts like the "Football as we know it" motto, it does make it sound like the whole project is motivated by ex-NSL bitterness.

I think it is tongue in cheek.

AL has old NSL teams in it. They are AL teams

AAFC has old NSL teams in it. They are NPL teams.

“Football 2.0”
”We are football too”
”Australia’s true national league”

You can interpret anything as being bitter.

They are just having some fun. Nothing more.

Have listened to latest podcast put up on AAFC Twitter. Not the SBS one though.

I liked his answer to the ethnic question. We need to respect where the clubs have come from and how they were formed. 

Its a strange issue. We have clubs that are 70 years old that were formed in Australia and have only ever played in Australia. What’s the timeline here? Is it you have to be here eg 200 years or 6 generations or something?
At the same time we have an ethnic team from a different country in our national league. It’s madness.

Secondly there were no questions regarding state feds and therefor their support or nonsupport. Personally I find it hard to imagine any state fed would be against it but who knows? Perhaps the prospect of losing their stronger clubs but I don’t think that is a good enough reason. If FFA can sanction a league will the state feds have any say in the matter? Considering they are a powerful voting bloc I would like to hear what their role is in all of this.

I would especially like to hear from Queensland. 

I think your looking for problems where there aren’t any. 

Teams to make up a 14 team NSD,

Tasmania United, (Hobart) new stadium to be built.
Wollongong Wolves, WIN Stadium
Gold Coast, Cbus Stadium 
FNQ Fury, Townsville Stadium.
Northern Territory FC, Darwin football stadium.
Canberra United, New stadium to be built
Perth Team
Adelaide City 
Brisbane Strikers  
3x Melbourne Teams
3x Sydney Teams

So you’re not taking in to account (a) whether teams can afford  this and (b) whether they have any support 👍

1.  Zero chance of a Darwin team being involved (and probably no Perth team as well)
2.  Canberra bid currently trying to buy its way into the A-League, no indication that they are interested in the NSD
3. We need to ready ourselves for the strong probability that the clubs will get their way, and that the "NSD" will be treated as a reserves comp.  Meaning that if we get to 14 teams, itself unlikely, at least half those teams will be A-League reserves teams.

I agree with the first two. With the third I'm expecting a hybrid reserves/NYL to run this season. Probably still conference based but longer running. If the A-League are expecting scholarship players to be making up some of their squad they have to be getting game time-somewhere.    

A NSD is a different beast I hope.

“OPINION Why does a second division continue to be delayed?”

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/why-does-a-second-division-continue-to-be-delayed

I disagree with her on the AL retiree line. If clubs want to pay players so be it. Younger players would benefit from having ex AL in the squads as mentors and pushing for starting positions.

Also, when it gets set up it won’t be the same as AL where it is a bloc of players who change clubs. It will be new clubs and players entering the league each season as others disappear.

Quotas are not a good idea. 

I mean it it should be the same rule for all the NPL divisions in the case they are connected. 

“

Young African-Australian talent needed to take South Melbourne FC to another level

South Melbourne FC Youth Director Peter Kokotis and Tanzanian-born Coach Emanuel Saakai are looking for financial backing to create bursaries for promising young African Australians

South Melbourne FC Youth Director Peter Kokotis and Tanzanian-born Coach Emanuel Saakai are looking for financial backing to create bursaries for promising young African AustraliansSouth Melbourne FC Youth Director Peter Kokotis is passionate about integrating “new Australians into NPL football.”“In my work in football across Asia I have met unbelievable African talent, many now close friends, South Melbourne will evolve to another level with young African Australians who have a deep football sense,” he told Neos Kosmos.”

https://neoskosmos.com/en/176020/young-african-australian-talent-needed-to-take-south-melbourne-fc-to-another-level/

In that TWG article, Zelic quotes Arnie:

When Craig Foster and I interviewed James Johnson in May this year, he said it was at least “two to three years away” but national team boss Graham Arnold later conceded to us that “we can’t wait that long.” 
Arnold has been publicly agitating for the creation of a national reserve grade for some time now

I recommend all football fans read the article carefully, it summarises well where things are at.

In conclusion:
1.  don't hold your breath about the NSD, and
2.  when it eventually comes in, it won't be the kind of NSD you've been dreaming about.

I read it and I also listened to the interview with Nick Galatas

I still see the Reserve League as a hybrid conference system as an extension to the NYL with A League squaddies also included for fitness reasons - not as a NSD.

Galatas rather than complaining that the FFA was taking too long was happy with the progress that he Nogarotto had made and was very supportive of James Johnson in spite of Lucy trying to verbal him otherwise.

He said.  “What’s happened is, there’s been pent-up frustration, pent-up demand. We represent these clubs and these clubs are telling us that they want to get on with the National Second Division,”  But that was in response to the progress over three and a half years - not the last nine months.  He was not expressing his concerns with the current FFA admin - he was bemoaning the fact that their was no appreciation (to him) from his own members of the progress made in recent times under current (9 months - Covid ridden) admin.  

They're too separate things, and should be kept as such. The reserve grade league is for A-League clubs to develop young players in-house, the second division is for independent clubs to push themselves into contention for promotion to the top flight (and shouldn't have any restrictions on players short of limits on foreigners and perhaps an FFP system). A loan system can also be used for players transitioning from youth league to the first team, by spending a season in the NSD on loan to a club during this phase.

In short, no A-League reserve teams in the second division!

Agree!!

And this is why I'm advising people to be ready to be disappointed.
The A-League clubs have already been lobbying to be able to play their reserves teams in any future NSD.
The FFA have publicly stated that they are researching 2nd divisions far and wide (because we're going to get a model we don't like, and they are going to point to this or that country as justification for using the model).
I mean seriously, why would anyone need to research NSD models?

And yet there is no international example of a second division with pro-rel and a large number of youth/reserve teams in it. Spain and Germany have a cap of the third division for B teams, and in the Netherlands only 4 out of 20 youth sides are in the Eerste Divisie.

There is of course the USL in the US which has a roughly 50/50 split between B teams and independent clubs, but that precisely has no pro-rel (and no prospect of ever having it, given the nature of American sport).

The a league clubs may bemoan the lack of fan support they currently receive, but if they push to dominate places in the NSD with their youth teams they will risk losing more support for their disingenuous behaviour. They have a youth league comp that they choose to run over only 8 weeks to save money. If they reveal a desire to turn the NSD into their youth league with a few token places for state league clubs, it can be for no other reason than to keep the state league teams down. I'd have no issue if they'd earn their place via promotion. At the minute, SFC is the only youth team with any chance of doing that.

Fully agree. I just don’t see the point.

If the A League clubs want to have heir reserves/youth In a national tier, maybe they should just set up another tier at a NTD out of their own pockets.

Yep, the Eerste Divisie example will be enough to seal the deal.
Anyway, you're assuming the FFA wants P&R.
I think it's pretty clear they will give the clubs whatever they want.

Their are a number of reasons.
1) The NSD is no guarantee to happen any time soon.
2) The NYL is useless as is.
3) There is talk of a minimum of 18 member squads augmented by scholarship players.  
4) This should not be in any way part of a NSD.

Whether it is national is another question. It probably should be tailored to how you set it up depending on the State

For instance, even with current border closures SFS, WSW, Macarthur, Jets, CCM and Canberra could play a 4 round home and away to go alongside the A-League. Being a hybrid NYL / A League Reserve would give more games for young players with hardened pros to learn from and help them develop and also allow players coming back from injury to regain fitness.

And yes it should be funded by the independent A-League

https://t.co/fSfl46Boiu?amp=1

FQ on NSD:

https://www.soccerscene.com.au/football-queensland-to-assess-impact-of-national-second-division/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

“Through consultation with Queensland clubs, it is imperative that we explore what is economically sustainable and determine appropriate national models that lead to an understanding of the most competitive and optimal pathway for all of Queensland’s footballers,” he said.

“FQ’s competition reform consultations have been designed to improve our understanding of how we can build a football pyramid and unlock the opportunity for Queensland’s aspirational clubs by delivering connected competitions for the 317 clubs and 180,000 participants for which FQ is responsible.

“Member federations have the responsibility for promotion and relegation into and out of leagues based within each state alongside the governance of several other critical aspects of competition that the success of any potential NSD consideration is contingent upon, one that could ultimately be endorsed by the FFA and connected within the federated system.

“As the Member federation, FQ will assemble a number of NSD models, consider their viability, benefits and the impacts each has on FQ’s ability to deliver connected competitions across the state’s own football pyramid for the benefit of Queensland clubs in a national context.

“Feeding directly into any proposed model will be FQ’s deep insights into the financial and commercial sophistication and the levels of governance and administrative competency of every NPL club through existing compliance audits and the recently undertaken 81 criteria technical assessment by FQ’s Club Development Unit into the technical football outcomes achieved by clubs.

“FQ has already received feedback from thousands of stakeholders during the consultation process, club summits and surveys since launching the Future of Football 2020+ reform journey in May and there is clear appetite for promotion and relegation within a thriving, sustainable and connected competitive environment in Queensland.

“FQ’s strategic plan shows a commitment to driving the game towards that vision and we look forward to engaging all Queensland clubs, participants and football community members to ensure everyone can have their say, just as we have done right throughout the Future of Football 2020+ initiative,” Cavallucci conclude”

https://www.soccerscene.com.au/football-queensland-to-assess-impact-of-national-second-division/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

cheers waz

SFC ii are 6th and finish 11th last season.
I wouldn’t say they should be a chance if places are granted on merit. 

It will I’ll be a complicated process to select teams initially imo. Historic results should be taken into account but at the same time Qld hasn’t always had promotion so how far do you look back. What about teams that have been historically good but have had a low 2 years, should they miss out because of the timing of implementation.

Best result would be if a formula could be agreed upon fairly directly where the 2021 NPL seasons are used a qualification year or contribute to a agreed points system.

Don’t think any AL teams youth teams would be eligible from the first season if so.

Good to see Qld and the clubs are supportive.

Qld probably has the trickiest system to create or reform due to geography. It’s a question of eg does a NQ or FNQ team get promoted into NPL or Premier League and the criteria that comes along with that.

QLD tells the tale of what challenges an NSD and pro/rel will bring. 

I’m a bit anti the FFA Cup when NQ FNQ get a spot.

I don’t think a Cairns team winning the local league should get placed in NPL. QPL is too expensive imo for the quality. Perhaps something like - if a team wins a regional league 2 or 3 years in a row they can have a playoff to enter the NPL. Also if you won yr 1,2,3 and fail to qualify you get another chance if you win 4 because you won 2,3,4. If the clubs wants to play in a qualification series.

Queensland is a cautionary tale. You want to have a structure in place in which regional teams (particularly ones at a distance from metropolitan centres) are not disadvantaged either financially or in sporting terms. And ideally you would have places like Townsville, Cairns, Rockhampton, Bundaberg, etc. (and elsewhere: Bendigo, Ballarat, Albury-Wodonga, Coffs Harbour, Bunbury and so on) represented at NPL level, with the chance for promotion to higher tiers. Some things could help this:
1) centralise travel costs at NPL level
2) set up an FFA administered regional football fund to finance infrastructure projects (and also help regional clubs if they fall into financial trouble)
3) adopt a regional pyramid system, so Queensland could have something like:
Tier 1: QLD NPL 1
Tier 2: North+Central Queensland / South-East Queensland (play-off for promotion)
Tier 3: Regional zones (FNQ, NQ, Whitsunday, CQ, Wide Bay / Brisbane, Sunshine Coast, Gold Coast, Toowoomba)

Also, does the Queensland NPL incorporate youth football? Does this mean that Mackay, for instance, has to send all their U-13 to First Grade teams to SEQ every second week? Maybe one way to lower costs is to keep First Grade and U/20s on a statewide basis, and regionalise the youth system.

Obviously you want to keep it as simple as possible but QPL is NPL2. 

I think these regional leagues should be viewed as NPL3. So them getting a direct chance to come into NPL every year isn’t fair imo. 

Otherwise you could disband QPL and just have every regional league as NPL2. Football Qld won’t do that.

“

Gungahlin United joins push for national second division football league

...It is something for our club to aspire to, whether it is in two years’ time, five years’ time or 10 years’ time. It is a case of really working with the Gungahlin community to help us establish a pathway for any player who comes and plays,” he told Region Media.“It is important for the ACT as a whole because when you start to look at this national second division it gives a realistic opportunity for clubs who are classified in a regional area like the ACT to aspire to be involved in a higher standard.“It gives clubs the opportunity to be the best that they can and develop players as high as they can.”Currently, each state runs its own Premier League and 30 clubs from every Australian state and the ACT have signed up to the proposal.

Despite GUFC holding its own in the ACT’s Premier League, smashing the Cooma Tigers 5-0 in the final to take out the 2019 Championship, Neil says the proposal would see the club test itself against the best in the country.

“I think it will be challenging, but over time, and with better football, and a bit of infrastructure, the quality of ACT teams will improve,” he said.

“I do not think we will improve overnight but it will certainly happen down the track because you are creating more opportunities for more players and coaches to be involved.”

https://the-riotact.com/gungahlin-united-joins-push-for-national-second-division-football-league/404977