https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/ansell-wishes-for-korean-style-second-tier-in-australia

South Melbourne looking to offer scholarships to talented South Sudanese players... 
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/12766246?__twitter_impression=true

The Uefa president has made it clear on many occasions that Uefa strongly opposes a Super League. The principles of solidarity, of promotion, relegation and open leagues are non-negotiable. It is what makes European football work and the Champions League the best sports competition in the world. Uefa and the clubs are committed to build on such strength not to destroy it to create a Super League of 10, 12, even 24 clubs, which would inevitably become boring.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/oct/20/european-premier-league-talks-held-over-lucrative-breakaway-competition

Lovely sentiment by Uefa, the absolute perfect example of morality and solidarity. heheheh
But we are unique here in Australia and closed-leagues are mandatory to protect the investment of the privileged few. 

- expand to 16 and have the top 8 from an A+ league the following season
- then have P&R between A + and A Leagues in the first season
- Spam the country with cheap A League licenses so that we could have a number of 28 teams across the  A+/A League system in the hope we can have a 14/14 split

You know starting up a bunch of cheaper clubs in div 2  shouldn't be an issue. We should not be reinventing anything, see which clubs can do then go ahead. Div 2 will not receive the same scrutiny of the A-league so small attendances should be fine. Everyone excepts that P/R will take time. I think a huge issue in our country is not glass half full but half empty.,we just don't focus on the football so the cost of error is over amplified. 

Why start up cheaper clubs, there are already 35 or so existing clubs kicking down the door tying to join? 

LOL. While we are scratching our heads trying to work out what hurt the A League the most, FIFA and UEFA provide the clarity needed. Inevitable.

It is what is great about European football.
If all the people on this forum lived in the same town/city somewhere in Europe we could enter the lowest division there and be part of the system. 

That means if the club club kept getting promoted and met criteria you can one day have the club in the CL. 

Win the CL and you can play in the CWC.

Australian clubs outside of AL cannot get promoted, play in ACL nor CWC.

Even though it would never happen every club in Europe can have that ambition. In Australia it is impossible.

#unique

Not just European Football, it's pretty much the same globally. 

And  WHAT is isthe FFA doing about asecond divisoin ?!  Oh now i remembrr, N O T H I N G  becoz they say  its " not our job" !!

It's not only the FFA thats holding it back mate... Do you think some dodgy pricks who made their money in God knows what shady ways are ever going to allow a system that would jeopardise their  vanity networking projects. A ponzi scheme only continues to work whilst their is ample supply of suckers wanting to buy in to the dream. Why have a pro/rel system when you can sell ,licenses, profits to be shared by the  "Football but not as you know it" crowd.

This forum stated 4 years ago and we are no where near a 2nd division, amazing how hopeless the FFA are.

People eventually see through Ponzi schemes and that day is coming very soon for the AL (if not there already). 

Yeah but sifting through the ashes this time around will be even harder. Lots of pain coming at all levels I think. We should have got our act together 10 years ago and been half way to where we wanted to be by the time this covid shit hit.

Funny, I don't remember South Melbourne clamouring for automatic promotion/relegation when they were in the NSL (which was a closed shop for its entire existence except for a few years in the 1980s).

Where  is FFA' s  PLAN for  a 2nd  Division ?! The only "plan " i see  is to to reduce the  salery cap. Can you beleive it?! Do  the Suits i n  charge understand  football ??

Yeah I dont recall us clamouring fior relegation eitherr althoigh Im pretty sure the club was always voting for increasing teams and promotion from state leagues.  But what is your point? Two wrongs make a right?  What's the point of dredging up the failures of the past when the new improved plastic fantastic system you have now doesn't work either? A famous woodworking teacher once said "don't point out the sty in my eye when you have a f@cken pole coming out of yours" 

My point is you can get off your high horse a little bit. I want an NSD with pro-rel to the A-League and eventually a complete football pyramid (as long as it can be implemented without sending clubs bust), but shit talking the A-League for being "plastic" is hypocritical from someone whose team happily participated in an equally "plastic" league for more than two decades. The NSL had some pretty dodgy owners/chairmen too, by the way. They make the current lot look like paragons of virtue.

You might want an NSD with pro-rel but I dont really think the new paragons of virtue do, and from the looks of things they will fight tooth and nail to prevent it from ever becoming a reality. No high horse here buddy, I'm just a pleb club member that loves his club above all others and doesn't owe an allegiance to any soccer federation or league structure. I want my club to be able to participate, based on merit, in the highest level in this country and if you want the same I have no beef with you. I get that the "Plastic" tag really grates you so sorry to offend if that's the case but you must concede that a lot worse has been said about "old soccer"

Shouldn't be up to the clubs. Should be up to the governing body to actually form the structure of our football system.

A lot of things happening at the moment.
COVID is likely to continue affecting the league.
Most clubs are broke.
Those same clubs are about to take over the running of the league.
After 15 years of big losses, owners are about to put their hands in their pocket to an even greater degree.
Meaning?
No one should be counting on P&R for at least the next decade.
Ain't happening.
No one in any position of authority is actually fighting for it, and whenever it gets mentioned, a long list of other priorities are thrown out there, or reasons are given why no one should be holding their breath.
I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

I would love to see a full pyramid of pro rel but it is not going to happen for a long time in this country.

Although not ideal but in the meantime to have some sort of semblance of pro rel as soon as the second division can be set up and is shown to be viable, promote four or six teams from the second division to the A league so we have a 16 or 18 team A league competition and then due to the current A league clubs having an A league licence until 2034 make it so the lowest finishing team out of the newly promoted second division teams is relegated back to the second division, with the winner of the second division being promoted to the A league and keep doing this until we can have the proper promotion and relegation.

I know this is not ideal but it is a lot better than what we have now.

Just addressing this point in isolation, I would suggest that an open pyramid is a better solution for club sustainability than the closed league franchise model, as clubs can simply drop down to a level they can afford to continue operating at and rebuild, as opposed to just getting shut down like Fury, Gold Coast and NZ Knights. Yes, there were successor clubs founded later on in the NPL, but surely a continued existence within the same pyramid would have been a better result for everyone involved.

C'mon man so what if (and yeah I know that this is like a 1000/1 shot) all 6 newly promoted clubs finish above the franchises on the ladder? Does one still get relegated? All the noise about the fact NSL never had pro/rel, that all the clubs where too woggy and something about sustainability etc etc is all a blatant excuse for the unpalatable (for some) real reason why pro/rel to A league will never happen in our lifetimes.. These Franchise holders paid fees to be allocated exclusive regional sales areas in this league and will NOT want to ever leave it. I don't hate the clubs, fans or the people involved there BTW it is what it is and they also have a right to feel as passionately about their club as I do mine, but seriously this franchise thing is pure shite. 

I agree this Franchise A League is shit but I am Just trying to think outside the box because there should be at least be some form of promotion and relegation into the top tier and the only way I can see it happening any time before 2034 is if the A league falls over, which is a possibility or if some sort of agreement is reached that still guarantees the franchise teams a position in the A LEAGUE until their licence expires in 2034.

At least with this option you would have a chance to get your club into the top tier and to stay there by finishing above any one of the other five newly promoted teams and also the top team in the second division would be promoted the following year and if the very long shot re all the newly promoted teams finish above the current franchise teams or even all just perform really well then maybe it might cause a rethink and speed up the implementation of a full pyramid and promotion and relegation.

At least my proposal is a step forward, it's better than what you have now or are likely to have in the near future, which is no promotion into the top tier.

I agree with this 100%. Clubs dropping down a division and re-calibrating financially is infinitely preferable to them just disappearing because they can't keep up. The Mariners are in this boat at the moment. They would probably benefit from a spell in an NSD to rebuild, make a push for promotion and treat their fans to some winning football for a bit. 

My concern is more about travel costs. Realistically an NSD would be lucky to get average crowds of 2-3000 per game. Is this enough to sustain the cost of travelling around the country? The alternative would be to focus on SE Australia and not include clubs from Perth, North Queensland, etc. But that is in contrast to the open spirit of the football pyramid.

so  WHERE  is   FFA 's  PLAN for  second Division?  NOT GOOD ENOUGH ! !  Our  be Loved game deserves   better!  
Who will  join  me in calling  for change at the  top ?!

It breaks my heart to think CCM and Newy Jets will be the next to be wiped out of existence thanks to our broken system after all their dedicated and loving fans have gone through.

I can't even imagine how it must feel to be a Mariners fan in the closed league system knowing honestly despite Gallop's platitudes that you're going to watch your team finish last or maybe second last every season again and again and again like Sisyphos pushing his boulder but without the thrill of being able to battle similar sized clubs in a relegation fight, and if relegation does come, the satisfaction of being the big fish in the smaller pond and the thrill of winning promotion again, all for the AFL/NRL delusion of equalization, when there are literally several million actual football fans in this country who are already accustomed to the romance of our own game's structure.

My concern is more about travel costs. Realistically an NSD would be lucky to get average crowds of 2-3000 per game. Is this enough to sustain the cost of travelling around the country? The alternative would be to focus on SE Australia and not include clubs from Perth, North Queensland, etc. But that is in contrast to the open spirit of the football pyramid.

I haven't checked the numbers for flights, accommodation, and local transport, but honestly I think people grossly overestimate the cost of travel when they talk about barriers to an NSD, especially when at least 80% of the teams would and should be based in the southeastern corner of the continent on both economic grounds and on organic sporting merit.

I think salaries would be the biggest cost, but hopefully for an NSD that's something the PFA would be happier to come to the table on, and we already know that these discussions are already happening between them and the AAFC.