It definitely makes a difference.
We don't have a lot of info, but the occasional snippets we've seen put Kayo numbers at around 30% to 45% of the Fox numbers.
But, we only see these numbers when someone wants to highlight some large numbers, so it's hard to know what the norm is, maybe one third?
Of course, if it is consistently around one-third, that can mean one-quarter of the original audience having moved over (most likely less because  part of it will represent new audiences).

Tigers Cats Afl grand final,  Two Vic clubs playing outside of Victoria for the first time (although maybe not the last time) ever ,.. They will be disappointed with less than 3 mill viewers. 

wait i'm confused.

are you pro-logic-free-magical-aleague-subscription-viewing-numbers?

or just anti-nrl?

take your time

This Mediaweek article about the weekend's sport mentions Kayo.
https://www.mediaweek.com.au/foxtel-footy-crowds-lift-for-last-nrl-and-afl-live-games-for-2020/

Just doing some rough off the top of my head calcs, looks like both NRL and AFL got Kayo figures of around 130k to 140k (with Fox numbers being around 325k to 340k)  with total numbers around the 465k mark (which is a very big number for STV ratings).

If media reports are correct a combined Nine and Stan bid is being made for rugby. The value is 30 million made up of cash and contras. Roughly half the existing deal.

Its for test matches one FTA Super Rugby match on FTA with other Super Rugby games on Stan and all supported by the SMH.

This is smart because of the Stan connection and given Optus move on Football generally its interesting for us as well.

This is a part of strategic pivot by Nine of how it uses Stan.

Netflix is driving this. Nine know that they can’t beat Netflix and the other international streaming platforms.

But what they do know is local content and that’s sports. If they can pull off the integration of Rugby across its FTA assets and it’s streaming platform - they will know then they can go after bigger sports using the same value proposition.

Fox is a wounded beast - it’s traditional set top box business is both old fashion and expensive. They have a stack of debt (albeit, dent that can be struck off by the boss). They are playing catch up and trying to shift to streaming to keep up with Netflix etc whilst trying to hang on to the margins from the old business.

In short - Nine is doing a trial run for how it would bid for all of the NRL or AFL. or cricket for that matter.

Nine can see a path to heavily compete with Fox for the whole off rights for a code instead of sharing it with Fox. In the process finding a new purpose for Stan.

FFA should watch this very closely the 30 million is roughly half what the old Fox contract was, so the dollars may not be as big.

If FFA and the clubs can lift the ratings it could open up a whole new venture with Nine becoming a major sports player using Stan. It also kinda sets up an Optus partnership with a FTA as well.

Nine owing Fairfax thus producing digital platform also counters the Fox / news combination.

Worth keeping an eye on me thinks. 

Given where rugby found itself (similar to where the A-League will find itself mid-way through next year), it's a fantastic deal for rugby.
I would be thrilled if the A-League ends up with something similar.

The Nine takeover of the Fairfax group which included Stan, provides Nine a streaming platform as well as general media..

As many have discussed the broadcast platforms are changing before our eyes, streaming is seen as the new King.

Studies I have read, identified key changes in audience viewing patterns.... when you pay for a Fox model on your TV, the cost was high and buyers tended to be keen fans of a sport and many where multi watchers often watching in excess of 3 games a week.

Whereas, streaming viewing patterns because of the way lower cost base, tend to only watch what they want, and streaming platforms have become expert in developing bits of events, i.e. goals, 5 minute, 24 minute, 48 minute and the full match, it can be broken down by team or competition.

The result has been streaming numbers greatly out number subscription numbers, but often at only 10 to 15% of the cost.

Nine when they purchased Fairfax in an agreed and friendly takeover closer to a merger, had a strategic objective..... to leverage off each of the players ie Nine, Fairfax & Stan to make the sum greater than the individual parts.

This play for Rugby is a test by the new merged Nine group to see if they can become the major sports broadcaster in the country, with multi channels they could run both the AFL & NRL as well as other sports.

Arguably IMO the biggest change in sports broadcasting in recent Australian history and will be interesting to see if Fox, who have both publicly and privately said they don't want Rugby come in with an offer for Super Rugby...

Agreed. Rugby is actually in a way deeper hole than the A-League. Super Rugby is dead. SA are out, and NZ might go it alone, which means you have five Australian sides with nobody else to play against (and no real viable avenues for expansion, especially since the playing stocks are thinly spread as it is), one of whom was suddenly brought back to life after having been killed off a couple of years ago. The NPC is a farce and should be euthanised. Club Rugby is in a healthy state but it's small beans, barely above the NPL in commercial terms.*

The fact that, in the face of all that, Nine/Stan are willing to bid $30m on Australian Rugby is hopefully a good sign for the A-League. Hopefully football could see a similar arrangement with Optus and an FTA channel (even SBS would be fine), which seems to be the ideal situation. The haircut on the prior contract might not be as much as people fear.

* The solution for Rugby is a simple one and it's strange it's not moving forward: a 12-team South Pacific super league, with the 5 Australian sides, 6 NZ sides (existing Super Rugby clubs + Hawke's Bay or a second team in Auckland) and a Pasifika side based out of Fiji. Play a double round-robin, 22-game season with finals over the traditional March-September winter schedule. International matches in February and October. Club rugby and NZ provincial rugby sit in the tier below that, playing simultaneous seasons. But I should shut up, this is a football forum.

AFL Grand Final 2020 TV ratings: Seven share close to 80% in Melbourne

Biggest AFL Grand Final TV audience since 2016 www.mediaweek.com.au3,812,000 (Metro 2,979,000 Regional 833,000)
The 2020 audience is well up on 2019 when 2,939,000 tuned in with 2,197,000 in metro markets. 2020 is the biggest AFL Grand Final audience since 2016 when 4,121,000 were watching Western Bulldogs defeat Sydney Swans.
TV ratings breakdown by market:
Sydney 413,000
Melbourne 1,583,000
Brisbane 383,000
Adelaide 265,000
Perth 335,000
Queensland 141,000
Northern NSW 131,000
Southern NSW 120,000
Victoria 260,000
Tasmania 98,000
Western Australia

Wow... thats huge. Shit news is that the wankers in head office are going to use this as justification to play every gf at night.

NRL GRAND FINAL

FTA - Ch 9
TOTAL - 2,967,000 (metro 2,103,000 + regional 863,000)

https://www.mediaweek.com.au/tv-ratings-october-25-nrl-grand-final/

Any truth to the rumour that Super Rugby is going to Stan?

Asian champions league didn’t make the top twenty ratings last night 

Origin Ratings

Game I - 1.60M
Game II - 1.96M
Game III - 1.65M

Dont think anyone is surprised, ACL always done worse the AL itself, add the fact Fox Sport are trying to hide the fact they are airing it kinda explains why. I question how many people actually know that game was played, whether a non football fan, casual fan or even an A-league fan. 

Socceroos v France at WC had average ratings of 2.1m, the NRL forever in our shadow

Wc is every four years

This Age article mentions that Nine/Stan might be chasing the AFL as well, and Fox is reacting:
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/foxtel-mulling-early-strike-to-extend-broadcast-deal-with-afl-20201113-p56eht.html

It is of interest to football, because if Stan has rugby and the AFL, it basically becomes a big player in the market place.

Fox won't want it to have football as well, and all of a sudden, you have a bit of competitive tension whereas at one point it looked like there would be none when this deal finished.

If Fox is just left with League and not much else, that probably is not viable (which is stating the obvious).

do we know how the anti-siphoning rules work when it comes to streaming services? 

That's a good question, and no I don't know.
I'm guessing government has failed to keep up with changing technology (again).

I doubt Nine/Stan will go for AFL, but I can see a world where they do nab exclusive rights to NRL and cricket, Seven partners with Amazon or something for AFL and tennis, and Optus partners with Ten or SBS for football and maybe basketball too. Then Fox Sports might as well shut up shop entirely.

Came across an interesting article analysing the STAN strategy in picking up the rugby rights.
It explains that for a service like STAN, they are never going to go after the premium sports products because they are just to expensive for a streaming service.  It makes more financial sense that they willl accumulate a catalogue of cheaper sports.
The article provides this table splitting up the value of sports.
thankfully we still see the "FFA" in the middle column:

It is a good demonstration of how football is many parts and when combined they aren't far off the value of the "big codes". 

The problems faced are getting all of football on one platform and getting the resources into the a-league to make it attractive to all football fans, which probably involves creating a more traditional football model.

A-League on ABC

• Wellington Phoenix v Sydney FC, January 2
• Macarthur FC v Wellington Phoenix, January 9
• Melbourne Victory v Wellington Phoenix, January 16
• Sydney FC v Central Coast Mariners, January 23
• Brisbane Roar v Melbourne City, January 30
• Wellington Phoenix v Melbourne Victory, February 6
• Western United v Melbourne City FC, February 13
• Sydney FC v Perth Glory, February 20
• Western Sydney Wanderers v Central Coast Mariners, February 27
• Brisbane Roar v Sydney FC, March 6
• • 
    
  • Western United v Melbourne City FC, February 13
  • Sydney FC v Perth Glory, February 20
  • Western Sydney Wanderers v Central Coast Mariners, February 27
  • Brisbane Roar v Sydney FC, March 6
  • Adelaide United v Brisbane Roar, March 13
  • Macarthur FC v Western Sydney Wanderers, March 20
  • Brisbane Roar v Melbourne Victory, March 27
  • 
    
  • Melbourne City v Adelaide United, April 10
  • Wellington Phoenix v Western United, April 17
  • Melbourne Victory v Western Sydney Wanderers, April 24
  • Sydney FC v Brisbane Roar, May 1
  • Central Coast Mariners v Brisbane Roar, May 8
  • Newcastle Jets, v Western United, May 15
  • Western United v Brisbane Roar, May 22
  • Newcastle Jets v Sydney FC, May 29
  
  

Do you have the link would love to read it

4 out of the first 6 matches featuring the competition's only non-Australian club. Unlikely to be a ratings bonanza.

When I was a kid I just remember following sports did anyone care about ratings and stats like they do now? 

Here it is:

https://mumbrella.com.au/whats-the-strategy-of-stan-sport-658095

Alongside that Mumbrella article on STAN (link above), here some financial stats on Foxtel.  They are holding their subscription base, but, the revenue per subscriber has fallen the past  couple of years because of the take up of Kayo.  Currently sitting at $77 per user, but once upon a time it was pushing $100.


The company reported a revenue fall of US$18 million to $US496 million for Foxtel in the first quarter despite an increase in the number of subscribers. Foxtel's total paying subscribers increased by 7 per cent to 3.29 million as of September 30. Subscribers for Kayo and Binge climbed 67 per cent. Kayo has 681,000 subscribers (644,000 paying) while Binge has 321,000 users (290,000 paying). The amount of revenue per user increased by 1 per cent to just $US56 ($77).

First couple of ODIs getting huge ratings on Fox, 500k+  when you throw in Kayo.