BB

I hear ya , and what you say about many false dawns... and lets not get carried away we still have huge issues to solve...

TBH, I am not sure that's correct re the huge issues..

We have two closely connected IMO big ticket issues, first is transfer payments between A-L clubs and A-L clubs and other state clubs...

The second is expansion and P & R...

If I am fair we have by some distance the best junior structure in Australia, at an international the Matilda's and Socceroo's are always in the top four Australian Favourite teams swapping with cricket .... 

The internal transfer payments are in advanced stages of being delivered. A  tier two level is also in advanced stages ... this will morph in time to a second division but not from the get go there is not enough money... but me thinks within 5 to 7 years it will be a second division...

The single, again my opinion, biggest issues is having a broadcast partner to promote and advance Football.... TEN wanta broadcast all our internationals thats huge so the Joeys U 20, U 23... and most players in these sides coming from the A-L..its never happened before and is an obvious way to promote Football... 

This bit is of ULTRA  importance in 2019 TEN's revenue was 600 million.... that they commit 70 million to Football means TEN have to make Football work otherwise they go broke... same as Seven and the AFL and Nine and league...

We have never had this commitment from a broadcaster partner before... and this will make a mega difference over the next few years and as the article above says TEN understand this is going to take time.... 

@midfielder

When the AFL expanded into West Sydney and Gold Coast the expansion was done before the TV deal. The simple reason is that with the next TV deal there was a bigger league to sell. The AFL were also able to get venues built for these teams. The fact is the AFL is in control of its product which is why it is successful in selling it

If I read what you have written correctly, then our fate is determined by the broadcaster (not much different to people's criticism of Fox). The overall product, shape, direction, ambition. If 10 want a closed off league with each of the 5 major markets represented then thats what the league has to be

The FFA are also caught in the paradox of waiting until they get increased revenue to they can then build the content that warrants increased revenue. Unlike the AFL that created its own demand

There is no reason why the FFA have to take slow steps with no real plan. We have a new mob and independent league. The cap should already been gone, the second tier should already be firmed up and being tendered, the "two trophy" system should already be resolved, etc...etc...etc...

The FFA need to act more like they are offering a product instead of pretending their broadcast partner is building one. If all we are up to is the selling of a 13th licence then we really didnt need to change the people in charge

BB

Within the Australian sporting environment the difference between the AFL and most other codes is wide... then Cricket then the NRL...

To compare what the AFL plans to ours ignores, their size, influence, connections etc simply look at the stadiums they have had built for them even in NSW & QLD. 

I hear everything you say and largely agree on the future you want... but to get to that future from were we where just after Steven Lowy stepped aside is going to take time... 

So so so much in the mix right now... FA working on and media reports saying, FA are well advanced in Australian Internal Transfer payments, the second tier teams, moving control of junior Football away from state Feds to FA... plus others but these are the big three...

As an aside P & R, has rarely been part of professional Football in Australia ever... and if you go back and read Frank Arok's book about Australian Football and listen to Johnny Warren, they sort first stability then other things would flow.... 

If only Frank Lowy, changed his model back in say seasons 4 to 8 and then again in season 12 .... but alas they did not... 

Given were we where, we need to stabilise while creating systems for the future, which is what I see is happening... 

Surely given they now have the rights to the national teams. 

Media reports have suggested yes... 

But here within lies the problem

The FFA didnt progress after season 8 because they wanted stability. They didnt progress after the last TV deal because they wanted stability. No progression for this TV deal as the aim of the game is stability

Your criticism of what Lowy did (inaction) is the same thing we are seeing today, the premise that "first stability" is an answer to progression. This is the difference between the AFL and the FFA, that forged their own path. Im not saying we can accomplish what the AFL have done in size, I'm saying we can do the same in relative proportion

Any company has a mission and direction. The FFA should already have one, and while not everything will be seen today, there are definitely smaller steps to cement this culture / direction. I havent seen anything (aside from a bit of tidying up at the grassroots that you have pointed out) to suggest that the A League in 3 years from now will be different to the A League 3 years ago

If the FFA are simply trying to not lose money for 5 years then we havent moved since season 8

@Mid, those things you mention may improve the football eco system in Aus but how exactly do you expect them to increase the number of eyeballs watching the AL.

FFA and APL TV deals are separate and National teams normally rate well so FFA really doesnt have much to do to improve its "product", but APL on the other hand has a massive task ahead of them.

10/Paramount WILL expect a return on their investment and anyone who thinks otherwise best look up why Seven are taking Cricket Australia to court

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-01/seven-launches-legal-action-against-cricket-australia/12937650

I hope I am right on this....

This bit is critical to my logic.

In 2019, TENS total revenue was 600 million.... the deal with Football Australia is roughly 70 million per year in cash and contras plus whatever cost TEN have in broadcasting.... lets assume Football is costing TEN 75 million per year...

75 as a percentage of 600 is  12.5%....

Add TEN have taken a 2.5% investment in APL....

12.5% of total revenues and a 2.5% stake in the APL, means TEN will be totally committed to making Football work...

Add if you like also that TEN has a number of on air people who are known Football fans and can carry items in their cross overs.

On The Project... Waleed Aly
Weekend Project ....  Peter van Onselen
Have you Been Paying Attention ... Ed Kavalee & Sam Pang
The Living Room ... Miguel Maestre
Master Chef ... Jock Zonfrillo 
 
Meaning TEN will be very committed to making Football work and have across their shows people who can handle the cross overs...

The obvious nay beyond obvious broadcast vehicle is the junior national teams and these are all being broadcast as I understand it.... its never happen before... 

The Seven media deal of 1 million when I think Sevens revenues were over 700 million meant Football was a side cost almost petty cash... with Fox TWAS always AFL & NRL ... 

Anyway thats my logic being such a large cost item and owing part of the APL means a different broadcaster...   

BB

FA for better or worst inherited a mess ... if no changes were taking place I would agree with you... but changes are being made... you can argue to slow ... when they fix the internal transfer system this in an of itself will have a huge effect as state teams will get transfers fees for player development and building reserves ... I want the same thing as you in the long run... I see progress towards it ... I would also like it faster but that it is happening cannot be argued like before.

The part of the logic in this post I'll disagree with is the cost

Contra doesnt subtract from 10s revenue. Having Archie Thompson on Master Chef doesnt cost them anything. He is simply a replacement for whoever would have been there if 10 had those rights instead of the A League. Same as promotion in their own commercial slots. You also have to take into account the A League isnt cost only as each slot will have revenue, and there are different partners they can get for sport (particularly with the ads they run during the game)

Your model is too simplistic to reflect what is going on

The second thing is nobody denies 10 has put money into the game. But what if they want a 14 team closed off league with a representative from each major city?

Whether the A League succeeds (vindicates 10s investment) vs whether football succeeds (player development / professional pathway) are two different things

Dont forget, channel 10s contribution to cricket's legacy is the BBL. The A League could simply be their BBL but with a bigger ball. As I said, the FFA need to create and sell the product. We saw 10 last time. They can only look after their own interests

Why are you guys still talking about FFA in relation to the A League?

The clubs need to sell the product.  Let's be accurate here.  And it's FA not FFA.

But I agree with your point about the key difference in the approach of the AFL.  So many acronyms.

The reason I call them FFA instead of FA is because FA is an ambiguous acronym that could easily be a typo. Writing FFA looks more deliberate and specific

Spot on.  It's the APL's job to sell the A League.  

Wouldn't normally watch Masterchef but would tune in for the Lolz if Archie made an appearance. 

If he does what he normally does in these settings it'll he a laugh.   
Man bluebird why are you so negative? Jesus man as someone who got injured in a workplace accident I should be miserable like you but I ain't. Chill 

Hey Mid, a business like 10/Paramount investing 12.5% (or whatever) of their revenue into a new venture and simply hoping that it "has to work" is a little pie in the sky as far as business plans are concerned though? I hope it does, for what its worth, but share BBs concerns that what APL/10/Paramount see as growth and what we as football fans want as growth in the game may be two radically different things.... Anyway the "professional side" of the game is locked in for 5 years now, by hook or by crook, lets hope the new overlords don't just see the sport as an "entertainment vehicle" and go down the Big Bash, musical corners, flashing lights, lets change the sport itself path. Time will tell I suppose.

According to Val Migliaccio, top-level futsal will be broadcast on 10/Paramount+ as well. 

Where was the "just be positive" attitude when the NSL was a sinking ship?

You have the A League because the football community as a collective stood up against the mismanagement of the game and demanded better

We have the same deal we had in season 8. Thats great. We have the three Bs (Barbarousis, Berisha and Nabbout). Thats also great. We also have the David Beckham fund. What a larf that was

All I am saying is the TV deal is not the point worth celebrating, its what we do as a result of the TV deal. Like I said, anybody, give me the next thee confirmed things for the A League. What are we talking about here? Give me something to be positive about

I think you will find that we are just of small part of the football commitment by CBS/Paramount+ throughout Asia that will become clearer in the coming months. i.e. there is a real commitment to football from Tens owners. Your concern about what 10/Paramount see as growth and what we as football fans want as growth still stands

Lets be clear, doesnt matter how much 10 invested, if it doesnt rate it will get cut. Below is a link to a list of worst ever TV shows and funnily 10 seems to have a disproportionate representation.

Here's a couple of teasers:

CANAL ROAD

A strong cast, a solid script, high production values and a good timeslot — Nine looked to be on a winner with this legal-themed drama in 2008.

The show debuted to strong ratings but mixed reviews and things quickly went south. The network eventually moved it to a later timeslot, further eroding the audience.

It was ditched after eight weeks, with the remaining episodes made available online. The whole endeavour reportedly cost $10 million.

HEADLAND

You just know someone’s head was on the chopping block after this monumental disaster.

Back in 2005, Seven made a whopping 52 episodes of this local drama. Before it had aired any of it, the network ordered a stack more.

It premiered in November of that year and by January it was clear audiences weren’t interested, despite the strong cast. The show was cancelled accordingly.

REEF DOCTORS

This show about a doctor on a remote island near the Great Barrier Reef, starring small screen darling Lisa McCune, cost Ten a bomb in 2013.

But a shockingly low 350,000 people tuned in for the first episode. The timeslot was quickly changed before the show was shifted to digital channel Eleven.

Ant it was never spoken of again.

THE RENOVATORS

You could almost hear programming executives at Ten celebrating when this cumbersome reno show finally came to an end in 2011.

It cost a lot of money to make, generated very flat ratings and caused a few controversies including allegations of cheating.

Not even a scandal could interest viewers though.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/tv-shows/what-were-they-thinking-the-17-worst-ever-television-flops-from-bad-reality-to-expensive-dramas/news-story/5a888726182d807b370c808c38281f41

ok take out the contras and you have 32 million cash for the A & W leagues and say 20 million for FA and 6 million in broadcast costs,,, plus running a panel discussion show..

thats say 60 million in cask on revenuers of 600 million or 10% of total revenue and thats in cash.... are you seriously saying that's not critical to TEN moving forward... 

further contras have a cost in lost revenue and the opportunity cost of doing reruns of NCIS and the revenue they can bring in...

sounds to me your trying hard to find ways to find problems...  

Yep 100000000000000000000% true TEN is taking a massive gamble....

If TEN can't convince the Football community at large to support this they could go broke on this deal...

So yer its hope by TEN...

But something deep deep deep deep within my soul tells me TEN have done mega amounts of research into this...

CBS are not fools and that they would risk such a large investment without mega to the power of mega due-diligence is crazy.. 

However you may be right ... it could all fail .... 

But I don't think so...

Stop being so negative.  I can imagine you in person . A paranoid angry person . Just chill 

I really hope you are right mate..... Would love nothing more than for the sport we all love to be as important to the rest of Australia as it is to us.... Shit maybe even one day my club can even compete on equal footing with the rest of them... Living in hope and not trying to burst your bubble.

Its sincerely NOT an "new Football vs Old Soccer" thing anymore. Im sure none of the Aleaguers out there want a Big Bash scenario either? Paramount appear to be saying the right things (or at least what we all want to hear) lets hope it all falls into place.

And incorrect!

You must be the purveyor of so much joy at Christmas.

Paramount are going to be hard nosed when it comes to their investment, and I hope that means is bringing a much more broadly based view of the football community into play.

Data is information. Statistics are interpretation

I'm going to pretend for a minute I havent seen any data. Here is a claim that channel 10 has staked ~10% of its entire company on football. The same game it walked away from less than 3 years ago

You're missing something either obvious or not so obvious. The world cup year. The Matildas. The new streaming service in an overcrowded streaming service market

Channel 10 would not spend money on the A League / football unless it saw a substantial return (at least double). Not on whether they could grow it. But in the current format

If I was to estimate peak ratings on past worth without outliers or special games I would say: Socceroos 250k, A League Saturday 120k-150k, A League pay 60k. This is not too different from the ratios of investment without trying to break them down due to their complex nature

As others have stated above, this is based on what 10 see as success and what they want out of the game. To me it looks like Socceroos, derbies, and filler content for its "me too" platform. The money on the table from 10 is what the A League was valued at 8 years ago when it lost value due to stagnation. Its not a big investment by 10 by any stretch