Coronavirus Megathread


Coronavirus Megathread

Author
Message
sydneyfc1987
sydneyfc1987
Legend
Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)Legend (11K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 10K, Visits: 0
numklpkgulftumch - 26 Aug 2021 7:35 PM
So Delta can be caught by the vaccinated, they then have just as high viral loads and are therefore just as infectious and can pass it on the same as the unvaccinated.


Not necessarily. Viral loads reduce far quicker in vaccinated people meaning they are likely infectious for far less time than non-vaccinated.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/cdc-covid-report-no-cause-for-panic

(VAR) IS NAVY BLUE

aufc_ole
aufc_ole
World Class
World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7K, Visits: 0
mcjules - 26 Aug 2021 10:20 AM
Davide82 - 26 Aug 2021 9:33 AM

Give these links a go:
https://www.hotdoc.com.au/search?filters=covid_vaccine-pfizer%2Ccovid_vaccine_dose-1%2Ccovid_vaccine_availability-next_7_days&in=adelaide-SA-5000&purpose=covid-vaccine
https://healthengine.com.au/appointments/covid--19-vaccinations/SA/Adelaide-5000/Next7Days?vaccineType=Pfizer&withFilters=true

There's not a lot but there were appointments for today and tomorrow. North at Pooraka and South at Reynella so they may be tough to get to depending on location and mode of transport but I'd avoid the government's site all together if you want to get in quickly.

The eligibility checker says Pfizer is available for 16-30yo from Monday 30th August onwards. I was under the impression it was already available?
mcjules
mcjules
World Class
World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)World Class (8.5K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Posts: 8.4K, Visits: 0
aufc_ole - 26 Aug 2021 8:58 PM
mcjules - 26 Aug 2021 10:20 AM

The eligibility checker says Pfizer is available for 16-30yo from Monday 30th August onwards. I was under the impression it was already available?

Ah yep it's only SA Health clinics before then. Still from next week those links may help

Insert Gertjan Verbeek gifs here

Edited
4 Years Ago by mcjules
paladisious
paladisious
Legend
Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K, Visits: 0
Captain Haddock - 26 Aug 2021 7:11 PM
Munrubenmuz - 26 Aug 2021 12:14 PM

Amazing that regional NSW is such a large area but they seem to ignore this when deciding on restrictions.

And they wonder why people protest?

They could have put a ring of steel around Sydney and avoided this but it was Dan's idea and therefore politically unacceptable.
paladisious
paladisious
Legend
Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K, Visits: 0
tsf - 26 Aug 2021 8:20 PM
saw a fitness influencer woman ranting on insta about not putting unnatural stuff in your body going full anti-vaxx.....she had fake tits and her lips done. You could not make it up. Actually you could because they're idiots and we should expect it I guess

lolololol
aufc_ole
aufc_ole
World Class
World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)World Class (7K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 7K, Visits: 0
mcjules - 26 Aug 2021 9:30 PM
aufc_ole - 26 Aug 2021 8:58 PM

Ah yep it's only SA Health clinics before then. Still from next week those links may help

Yeah they are a lot smoother than trying to book Wayville through the government website, will give it a bash on Monday. Cheers!
bluebird2
bluebird2
Rising Star
Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648, Visits: 0
paladisious - 26 Aug 2021 10:20 PM
Captain Haddock - 26 Aug 2021 7:11 PM

They could have put a ring of steel around Sydney and avoided this but it was Dan's idea and therefore politically unacceptable.

How did Melbourne's ring of steel for the current outbreak stop Shepparton, Echuca, Kyabram and Geelong from getting infections?

Oh wait, Dan didnt go for his own idea either
Edited
4 Years Ago by bluebird2
Davide82
Davide82
Legend
Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)Legend (13K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 12K, Visits: 0
numklpkgulftumch - 26 Aug 2021 7:35 PM
So Delta can be caught by the vaccinated, they then have just as high viral loads and are therefore just as infectious and can pass it on the same as the unvaccinated.

Bye bye Herd Immunity



But if everyone gets it and passes it on won't that advance herd immunity? :D

Anyway, surely we can eventually move to counting hospitalisations rather than just everyone who has a sniffle.

Isn't that the main point here? Avoiding death and hospitalisation?


Edited
4 Years Ago by Davide82
bluebird2
bluebird2
Rising Star
Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648, Visits: 0
Davide82 - 27 Aug 2021 10:11 AM
numklpkgulftumch - 26 Aug 2021 7:35 PM

But if everyone gets it and passes it on won't that advance herd immunity? :D

Anyway, surely we can eventually move to counting hospitalisations rather than just everyone who has a sniffle.

Isn't that the main point here? Avoiding death and hospitalisation?


100% bang on the money

Australia has had less than 50k total cases in a population of 25 million. When we let the first plane load of infected people into an open country it will rip through the community like wild fire. With a 70% to 80% vaccinated adult population there will be a lot of apathy and large clusters will emerge

The whole point of vaccination is to soften the impact of the virus. As somebody stated above, get the vaccination then get the virus. Its a change of strategy and the only way forward as far as I can see, given no intention from anywhere else in the world to eliminate it

It will no longer be about daily numbers but about hospitalisations and ICUs. Benchmark figures need to be around that of annual flus (ie- around 2,000 deaths a year)

Any restrictions will be pissing in the wind. I can see why CHOs are trying to sign off on "years of them" now. This their their last moment in the spotlight
Edited
4 Years Ago by bluebird2
tsf
tsf
Legend
Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K, Visits: 0
And nsw overtakes vic for total cases.

What a bloody shambles from where we were. Good luck up there
paladisious
paladisious
Legend
Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K, Visits: 0
bluebird2 - 27 Aug 2021 8:23 AM
paladisious - 26 Aug 2021 10:20 PM

How did Melbourne's ring of steel for the current outbreak stop Shepparton, Echuca, Kyabram and Geelong from getting infections?

Oh wait, Dan didnt go for his own idea either

A ring of steel around Melbourne was the right idea when Melbourne was having hundreds of cases per day, but when that amount of cases was happening in NSW and not nearly as many in Melbourne it seems obvious to me that the right move was to deploy those resources on the state border, which is what Dan did.

Put up more of your defences where there is more of the enemy, makes perfect sense to me.
Edited
4 Years Ago by paladisious
bluebird2
bluebird2
Rising Star
Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648, Visits: 0
paladisious - 27 Aug 2021 11:37 AM
bluebird2 - 27 Aug 2021 8:23 AM

A ring of steel around Melbourne was the right idea when Melbourne was having hundreds of cases per day, but when that amount of cases was happening in NSW and not nearly as many in Melbourne it seems obvious to me that the right move was to deploy those resources on the state border, which is what Dan did.

Put up more of your defences where there is more of the enemy, makes perfect sense to me.

This isnt a video game. The virus isnt an enemy or a beast. It doesnt recognise jurisdiction. There is no NSW or Victoria because we are all connected

Regional communities from NSW that far away from Sydney are so safe that there is a bubble. Border patrols are political. People arent going to drive from Sydney to Mildura or Albury. Sydney and Melbourne are more connected and the virus will most likely enter Melbourne from Sydney directly by plane and legit reasons

Victorian regional towns are connected to Melbourne which is why Shepparton was infected (twice in two major outbreaks), which has then infected Echuca, Mooroopna and Kyabram. Geelong would have gotten their infection by Melbourne which now puts Ballarat and Bendigo in (more) danger

There are obvious patterns here (social movement). Its not Labour vs Liberal or this wing vs that wing or this extremist belief vs that extremist belief. Australia would have done much much better with a single national consistent strategy instead of watching the only 8 children who have been vaccinated throwing rocks at every opportunity

Victoria was so focused on NSW they are now 80 cases a day which is the third highest outbreak. Blaming NSW does nothing here. We should have been aware the virus exists, we should have been aware there are leakages, and we should have had systems, measures and thresholds in place. When lockdown and vaccination is the only answer then it creates problems. Its an extreme level of hiding and surpasses the "lets curb this downwards" stage
paladisious
paladisious
Legend
Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)Legend (40K reputation)

Group: Moderators
Posts: 39K, Visits: 0
bluebird2 - 27 Aug 2021 12:09 PM
paladisious - 27 Aug 2021 11:37 AM

This isnt a video game. The virus isnt an enemy or a beast. It doesnt recognise jurisdiction. There is no NSW or Victoria because we are all connected

Regional communities from NSW that far away from Sydney are so safe that there is a bubble. Border patrols are political. People arent going to drive from Sydney to Mildura or Albury. Sydney and Melbourne are more connected and the virus will most likely enter Melbourne from Sydney directly by plane and legit reasons

Victorian regional towns are connected to Melbourne which is why Shepparton was infected (twice in two major outbreaks), which has then infected Echuca, Mooroopna and Kyabram. Geelong would have gotten their infection by Melbourne which now puts Ballarat and Bendigo in (more) danger

There are obvious patterns here (social movement). Its not Labour vs Liberal or this wing vs that wing or this extremist belief vs that extremist belief. Australia would have done much much better with a single national consistent strategy instead of watching the only 8 children who have been vaccinated throwing rocks at every opportunity

Victoria was so focused on NSW they are now 80 cases a day which is the third highest outbreak. Blaming NSW does nothing here. We should have been aware the virus exists, we should have been aware there are leakages, and we should have had systems, measures and thresholds in place. When lockdown and vaccination is the only answer then it creates problems. Its an extreme level of hiding and surpasses the "lets curb this downwards" stage

If the virus could be defeated by paragraphs you'd have ended the pandemic single-handed lol :)

Anyway, I stand by my defences remark and we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Edited
4 Years Ago by paladisious
bluebird2
bluebird2
Rising Star
Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648, Visits: 0
See this is the kind of crap I was referring to as Australia starts to open up:

It’s 20 days since an active case in the Queensland community.

Here are the restrictions from 4PM:

100 people allowed at homes
200 people are allowed weddings and funerals
Dancing is allowed
Businesses can ‘double’ capacity to 1 person per two square metres
At stadiums masks must still be worn walking in and while seated.
Masks are still necessary indoors when social distancing isn’t possible.

Mask rules will be reviewed every two weeks.


So based on expert health advice its safe enough to have 100 people in your house (even though thats 70% of where the virus is transmitted in NSW), its safe to have 200 people at weddings and funerals. Hell, you can even go to a stadium and attend sport along with thousands

But - you have to wear a mask. Because it makes things safe. Wish somebody had told Japan that when they decided to ban spectators from the Olympics
Muz
Muz
Legend
Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K, Visits: 0
paladisious - 27 Aug 2021 12:42 PM
bluebird2 - 27 Aug 2021 12:09 PM

If the virus could be defeated by paragraphs you'd have ended the pandemic single-handed lol :)

Anyway, I stand by my defences remark and we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

Lol.


Member since 2008.


Muz
Muz
Legend
Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)Legend (16K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 15K, Visits: 0
Meanwhile Scumo/Slomo is a A grade POS. (Also 'vaccine strollout'. Haha.)

https://www.smh.com.au/national/even-berejiklian-is-fed-up-with-the-pm-who-she-privately-regards-as-an-evil-bully-20210827-p58mde.html


Perrottet was so determined that he decided NSW would pay the full cost of JobKeeper Mark II – all he needed from Canberra was the enabling data that only the Australian Tax Office possessed. The NSW Treasury was in discussions with its federal counterpart to set this up. But when Perrottet went on TV and announced that NSW was prepared to create its own wage subsidy, Morrison reacted furiously. Testy phone calls followed;

Morrison refused to supply the essential information even though the program would not cost Canberra a cent.



Member since 2008.


Edited
4 Years Ago by Munrubenmuz
AJF
AJF
Pro
Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)Pro (2.9K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 2.7K, Visits: 2
Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer ShotBy 

Michelle Fay Cortez

27 August 2021, 15:38 GMT+10
Early data from Israel shows natural immunity wanes with time
People who recovered from Covid may face lower risk from delta

People who recovered from a bout of Covid-19 during one of the earlier waves of the pandemic appear to have a lower risk of contracting the delta variant than those who got two doses of the vaccine from Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE.

The largest real-world analysis comparing natural immunity -- gained from an earlier infection -- to the protection provided by one of the most potent vaccines currently in use showed that reinfections were much less common. The paper from researchers in Israel contrasts with earlier studies, which showed that immunizations offered better protection than an earlier infection, though those studies were not of the delta variant. 

The results are good news for patients who already successfully battled Covid-19, but show the challenge of relying exclusively on immunizations to move past the pandemic. People given both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine were almost six-fold more likely to contract a delta infection and seven-fold more likely to have symptomatic disease than those who recovered. 

“This analysis demonstrated that natural immunity affords longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization due to the delta variant,” the researchers said. 










bluebird2
bluebird2
Rising Star
Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648, Visits: 0
Had to laugh at an article by the so called experts yesterday explaining the high numbers in NSW

Apparently NSW didnt lock down hard enough for 6 weeks (even though all of Sydney was stage 4 within the first week of action)
As for Victoria, ACT and NZ, their snap lock downs which are vital, failed due to bad luck

If you have to argue away 100% of current data as exception to the rule then you dont really have a point

Maybe if experts were more interested in finding the solution instead of proving their answer Australia wouldnt be in this mess. There is no need to be precious about any method or response
Burztur
Burztur
World Class
World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K, Visits: 0
bluebird2 - 29 Aug 2021 10:01 AM
Had to laugh at an article by the so called experts yesterday explaining the high numbers in NSW

Apparently NSW didnt lock down hard enough for 6 weeks (even though all of Sydney was stage 4 within the first week of action)
As for Victoria, ACT and NZ, their snap lock downs which are vital, failed due to bad luck

If you have to argue away 100% of current data as exception to the rule then you dont really have a point

Maybe if experts were more interested in finding the solution instead of proving their answer Australia wouldnt be in this mess. There is no need to be precious about any method or response

No we weren't. We had a progressive series of lockdown with so many exceptions that it was meaningless.
bluebird2
bluebird2
Rising Star
Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648, Visits: 0
Burztur - 29 Aug 2021 12:44 PM
bluebird2 - 29 Aug 2021 10:01 AM

No we weren't. We had a progressive series of lockdown with so many exceptions that it was meaningless.

A stage 4 lockdown is as tough as it gets. It means you cant leave your house unless you are an essential worker. Even schools closed sometime in June. The situation is NSW was tougher than the initial federal lockdown when there were 4500 cases

What you had wasnt a progressive lockdown, it was an increasing and expanding set of restrictions. If a stage 4 lockdown isnt tough enough for data to trend downwards then nothing is

And as I said: NZ have an Auckland and Wellington only lockdown but nobody is critical of them. Victoria had Melbourne only with no ring of steel to no criticism. QLD had a shifting LGA lockdown to no criticism

I'm at a loss as to why so many people are trying to argue NSW didnt have a lockdown. Its pointless. Its a 100% indisputable and undeniable fact

Maybe if Victoria start recording 150 or 200 cases a day people will start to claim that wasnt a lockdown either
tsf
tsf
Legend
Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K, Visits: 0
bluebird2 - 29 Aug 2021 12:59 PM
Burztur - 29 Aug 2021 12:44 PM


I'm at a loss as to why so many people are trying to argue NSW didnt have a lockdown. Its pointless. Its a 100% indisputable and undeniable fact


Because they lived there so they experienced it and still said they could leave their house for any number of ludicrous reasons. For example, you could shop anywhere in the state if your local shops 'didnt have what you wanted'. That was only changed about 6 weeks in. 
You could even exercise in groups of up to 10. Hardly restrictive. And that's just two small examples. FFS, you could even come and go to you holiday house. 
tsf
tsf
Legend
Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K, Visits: 0
Gladys is going full Ron De Santis meets Chemical Ali. 
Burztur
Burztur
World Class
World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K, Visits: 0
bluebird2 - 29 Aug 2021 12:59 PM
Burztur - 29 Aug 2021 12:44 PM

A stage 4 lockdown is as tough as it gets. It means you cant leave your house unless you are an essential worker. Even schools closed sometime in June. The situation is NSW was tougher than the initial federal lockdown when there were 4500 cases

What you had wasnt a progressive lockdown, it was an increasing and expanding set of restrictions. If a stage 4 lockdown isnt tough enough for data to trend downwards then nothing is

And as I said: NZ have an Auckland and Wellington only lockdown but nobody is critical of them. Victoria had Melbourne only with no ring of steel to no criticism. QLD had a shifting LGA lockdown to no criticism

I'm at a loss as to why so many people are trying to argue NSW didnt have a lockdown. Its pointless. Its a 100% indisputable and undeniable fact

Maybe if Victoria start recording 150 or 200 cases a day people will start to claim that wasnt a lockdown either

Only 4 LGAs were in lockdown in the last two weeks of school in June. It wasn't until 26 June when the Greater Sydney lockdown came into effect - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-26/nsw-covid-19-lockdown-rules-explained/100246644

The NSW Government waited until the end of Term 2 until the Greater Sydney lockdown orders were put in place. I remember this because I was still taking my son to school and the parents in the class were all agreeing that Greater Sydney should have been shut down at the time but Glady's was delaying. 

As for the lockdowns being the toughest, the term 'essential worker' was defined so broadly by the NSW Government, that retail shops for luxury goods were still allowed to be kept open - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-16/sydney-covid-lockdown-retailers-open-jbhifi-gucci-lv/100296684
They had to change the term to 'authorised worker' because the gap was so wide. 

As for NSW not being in lockdown, this was a running joke with Gladys at the time - even she refused to call it lockdown - it was a "stay at home" order, or sparkling staycation because of all the political point scoring she made against Dan Andrews. I know this is the Daily Mail, but it does capture the sentiment at the time - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9724065/Dont-call-lockdown-Gladys-Berejiklian-avoided-word-Sydneys-new-restrictions.html 

At the end of the day, you can call if what you want, but the conditions were never strict, properly enforced or applied. This is why the virus managed to continue to spread. Now the NSW Government are forced to act tough and have all these harsh conditions while praying that vaccines will cover us. 

I'm critical of the NSW Government because I live here and I can see the mismanagement from the outset. We knew that the virus came from the limo driver and was delta strain, yet we were complacent enough to have a haphazard approach which let it spread. 
Burztur
Burztur
World Class
World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K, Visits: 0
tsf - 29 Aug 2021 1:40 PM
bluebird2 - 29 Aug 2021 12:59 PM

Because they lived there so they experienced it and still said they could leave their house for any number of ludicrous reasons. For example, you could shop anywhere in the state if your local shops 'didnt have what you wanted'. That was only changed about 6 weeks in. 
You could even exercise in groups of up to 10. Hardly restrictive. And that's just two small examples. FFS, you could even come and go to you holiday house. 

Thanks. This is exactly it. There were numerous exceptions and it's a recent lived experience. People were still browsing at Bunnings for home renovations and Kerry Chant even made pleas for people to stop lingering in shops (no orders, just a plea). 
Podiacide
Podiacide
Rising Star
Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 753, Visits: 0
All these arguments about whether NSW locked down hard enough fast enough. We will never know and we can all debate till we are blue in the face.

But where would you rather be living right now - NSW or VIC? Victoria locked down hard and has had very tight restrictions for quite a few months now and right now there is no light at the end of the tunnel. At least NSW is vaccinating like crazy and has put out a list of incentives via a plan with dates for its citizens to encourage them to get vaccinated and to give them hope in the future. What has Vic done? - vaccinating slowly and blaming its citizens and everyone else. The Vic Govt has no plan and no idea. You have to think that come end of October if NSW opens schools and has a vaccine passport system up and running for bars/cafes/sports stadiums (because they reached 70% double vaxxed) and victoria is still lockedown, weeks behind in its vaccine targets and weeks away from getting schools open and hospo and events back - surely a sizeable amount of the population will be furious!!!  The longer the lockdown the less the compliance and hence the less effective they are. You have to bring your citizens on a journey for a lockdown to work and right now victorians just arent onboard.

AFL grand final gone. Surely the Australian open is looking really shaky now, they need to make a decision on it by end of Oct at latest - I wonder if NSW will make a play for it? i can definitely see NSW opening its international borders before other states using home quarantine - Qantas already speaking about its more likely to fly Sydney to London than Sydney to Perth.

bluebird2
bluebird2
Rising Star
Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648, Visits: 0
Burztur - 29 Aug 2021 1:51 PM
bluebird2 - 29 Aug 2021 12:59 PM

Only 4 LGAs were in lockdown in the last two weeks of school in June. It wasn't until 26 June when the Greater Sydney lockdown came into effect - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-26/nsw-covid-19-lockdown-rules-explained/100246644

The NSW Government waited until the end of Term 2 until the Greater Sydney lockdown orders were put in place. I remember this because I was still taking my son to school and the parents in the class were all agreeing that Greater Sydney should have been shut down at the time but Glady's was delaying. 

The limo driver was reported as infected ~17 June. Greater Sydney was in lockdown on 26 June. Thats 9 days. I remember somebody in the response team saying there were 64 active cases when lockdown occurred, and dont forget there were only 1 or 0 unknown cases at that time because I was posting the data here

School ended in NSW on 25 June and didnt start until 12 July. The closure of schools was applicable to the 4 LGAs in lockdown at the time (remember, QLD also had an LGA lockdown. The virus doesnt recognise jurisdiction)

As for the specifics of what could and couldnt be done. As I said, a stage 4 lockdown has variable restrictions. The bottom line is no school and no work. Where you can shop and being outside is moot given the bulk of transmission is already in check by the 4 reasons for leaving home. To say that a lcokdown doesnt work without 1 hour of exercise, 5km limits or curfews simply isnt true. Nothing stated above would have accounted for 1200 cases a day

Australia was sold on the snap lockdown which was rolled out about a dozen times this year and NSW didnt buy into it. They have come under heavy criticism ever since. Victoria have waited longer than 9 days before announcing a lockdown, QLD had LGA lockdowns (as effectively NZ do), Vic didnt have a ring of steal and even released regional Victoria, etc...etc...

Its easier for people to claim NSW didnt have a lockdown (and the other 3 areas mentioned above have simply had bad luck) because otherwise it means admitting that a 7 day "snap lockdown" cant eliminate a complex outbreak. Once the easy answers have been eliminated the only ones left are the hard ones
bluebird2
bluebird2
Rising Star
Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)Rising Star (798 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 648, Visits: 0
Dont forget also the advice from the WHO

Lockdowns are a good tactic in situations where transmission is spiralling out of control and there is a threat of the health system being overwhelmed. As Nabarro says, they can “buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources”.

But they should not be used as the main strategy against COVID-19 more broadly. And the decision to impose a lockdown should be considered carefully, with the benefits weighed against the often very significant consequences.

Lockdowns also have a disproportionate impact on the most disadvantaged people in society. This cost is greater still in poorer countries, where not going to work can mean literally having no food to eat.


NSW have been in lockdown for ~10 weeks and if you take out the 4 reprieve weeks for Victoria since the middle of May they have probably been in lockdown for the same time. Niether state look like coming out any time soon

Australia's notion of no other choice than the worst possible lockdown flies in the face of the best advice out there. Lockdown only suits those with a job and a supportive family, for everybody else there are much much worse things than COVID
Podiacide
Podiacide
Rising Star
Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)Rising Star (812 reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 753, Visits: 0
bluebird2 - 29 Aug 2021 2:39 PM
Dont forget also the advice from the WHO

Lockdowns are a good tactic in situations where transmission is spiralling out of control and there is a threat of the health system being overwhelmed. As Nabarro says, they can “buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources”.

But they should not be used as the main strategy against COVID-19 more broadly. And the decision to impose a lockdown should be considered carefully, with the benefits weighed against the often very significant consequences.

Lockdowns also have a disproportionate impact on the most disadvantaged people in society. This cost is greater still in poorer countries, where not going to work can mean literally having no food to eat.


NSW have been in lockdown for ~10 weeks and if you take out the 4 reprieve weeks for Victoria since the middle of May they have probably been in lockdown for the same time. Niether state look like coming out any time soon

Australia's notion of no other choice than the worst possible lockdown flies in the face of the best advice out there. Lockdown only suits those with a job and a supportive family, for everybody else there are much much worse things than COVID

So true that last sentence

Burztur
Burztur
World Class
World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)World Class (9.4K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 9.1K, Visits: 0
Podiacide - 29 Aug 2021 2:18 PM
All these arguments about whether NSW locked down hard enough fast enough. We will never know and we can all debate till we are blue in the face.

But where would you rather be living right now - NSW or VIC? Victoria locked down hard and has had very tight restrictions for quite a few months now and right now there is no light at the end of the tunnel. At least NSW is vaccinating like crazy and has put out a list of incentives via a plan with dates for its citizens to encourage them to get vaccinated and to give them hope in the future. What has Vic done? - vaccinating slowly and blaming its citizens and everyone else. The Vic Govt has no plan and no idea. You have to think that come end of October if NSW opens schools and has a vaccine passport system up and running for bars/cafes/sports stadiums (because they reached 70% double vaxxed) and victoria is still lockedown, weeks behind in its vaccine targets and weeks away from getting schools open and hospo and events back - surely a sizeable amount of the population will be furious!!!  The longer the lockdown the less the compliance and hence the less effective they are. You have to bring your citizens on a journey for a lockdown to work and right now victorians just arent onboard.

AFL grand final gone. Surely the Australian open is looking really shaky now, they need to make a decision on it by end of Oct at latest - I wonder if NSW will make a play for it? i can definitely see NSW opening its international borders before other states using home quarantine - Qantas already speaking about its more likely to fly Sydney to London than Sydney to Perth.

Yup. It looks like the Victorian lockdowns are not going to be able to contain this. NSW is pushing some crazy vaccination numbers - 850k a week which is phenomenal. Having said that, the rollout has been terrible. The original roadmap was everyone vaccinated by the end of October 2021.

Using the ABC's table, NSW will hit 70% by 19 October and Victoria will get there 29 October. That doesn't seem too bad in the grand scheme of things. QLD seems to be dragging the most - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-02/charting-australias-covid-vaccine-rollout/13197518 
tsf
tsf
Legend
Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)Legend (14K reputation)

Group: Forum Members
Posts: 14K, Visits: 0
Podiacide - 29 Aug 2021 2:18 PM
All these arguments about whether NSW locked down hard enough fast enough. We will never know and we can all debate till we are blue in the face.

But where would you rather be living right now - NSW or VIC? 

Neither tbh.

IMO there is not much to debate really as NSW clearly didnt do the right thing early enough and lost control, just look at other states who beat it. If they did lockdown early and we were also vaccinated then we could be all be in a good position. 

At the end of it all that dud morrison should've made better quarantine facilities and done better deals for vaccines. 

All this hubris by gladys is just to spin out of the disaster unfolding over the next month. It's not looking good. 





GO


Select a Forum....























Inside Sport


Search