With due respect, this is sounding  like the archetypal criticism of players being rated on their international performances, because of where they play their club football.

Despite pleasing technical prowess, Hrustic has relatively  poor vision, insight and game sense. He also thinks too slowly. His decision-making is mediocre for an international footballer. He is  one of the worst  Aussie players in terms of visualising the pitch around him before he receives the ball. I suppose even trained pundits can't say this publicly, or they don't recognise Hrustic's major flaw. 

I particularly liked Leckie, when in front of goal receiving a peach of a cross, trying to control a ball from the right with his right foot instead of (a) blasting it first time with his left or (b) taking a touch with his left to set up a shot with his right. 

My mum has a better touch than Leckie.

got it in One! At least leaving Duke on the pitch the crossers had someone to aim at. Maclaren was anonymous. And we have run out of energy by the 85th minute in both the past two games. Suggests the playing set up isn't quite right.

I've read some good data from Ante Jukic's articles on ESPN.

Australia crosses the ball into the box, more than most other Asian teams. We don't tend to break down stacked defences , in central attacking interplay as much as we should.

A lot of teams are succeeding in attacking Australia in their Attacking Transitions and our Defensive Transitions, in accelerated attacks. As we rely on our full backs playing high and wide to create attacking width, or at least one of them to play high and wide in an overlapping role, the moment we lose the ball we are vulnerable to counter attacks in our Defensive Transition. 

Some fans claim these  FBs are caught out of position. They are not. It is the  job of others in central midfield to cover them.

*We need to improved  in our central attacking interplay in confined spaces with one/twos and better dribbling quality to create numerical advantage and increase scoring opportunities.

 *Also, dummy diagonal and hooked runs, can drag defences out of position.

*Moving the ball more quickly also helps break  down stacked central defences. Our over reliance on aerial crosses, and not having aerial supremos like Kennedy and Cahill as central strikers, has  negated our main attacking strategy .

Another issue is that Leckie in particular, isn't anticipating crosses on the ground/ potential goal assists  quickly enough. He is frequently a metre or two behind where he should be to anticipate the final ball in the box to convert. His more game sense proficient teammates, endowed with greater insight, would like him to be closer to the ball  in passes/crosses to convert. Like Hrustic, ML thinks too slowly, and lacks game sense, but probably in a different  way. Moreover, Leckie's technique and first touch lets lets him down to convert the chances he gets.

Sadly for Australia, a greater number of Asian defences are becoming more cohesive and more compact.  It is reducing scoring chances. In the 2018 Asian WCQing campaign, creating the chances wasn't as much of a problem as converting them. they are also working gout or how too counter our over-reliance on crosses into the box.

Notwithstanding all of the aforementioned, we were right on top at the 70 min mark and should have won last night's game. Excellent cross  from Boyle and conversion from Duke.

 
Level of club football is a pretty good indicator of player quality.
It's also a problem of minimal playing time, so it's a double whammy.

I'm not sure if you wrote or quoted first sentence, Muz?

Nevertheless, the axiom  is  shooting first time with the nearest foot to the cross ( Left side of the pitch cross,  received and first time shot with Left Foot, or, Right side of pitch cross, received and first time shot with Right Foot), 

or,

receiving with the furthest foot and shooting with the nearest foot in a two touch shooting action. 

 These practices create better body shape and efficacy in shooting.

remove rogic/mooy from the midfield and it seems to have a lot of trouble breaking down a defence

The only data worth looking at is 1-1 against china. 

It isn't always.

Scott McDonald played better as a club player in Scotland than as an international Socceroo.

Matt McKay and Jade North were better international players than club.

At the Russian  World Cup in 2018 Milligan, Risdon and Arzani held their own against France, the World Champs, despite  playing A L.   

Little  playing time at high level club is an issue.

a key point, other NT's keep improving yet we and imo no matter the current and last coach arn't really.....as much as many here think we have players capable today.
We still don't have a regular scoring forward or even a midfielder who strikes the net enough.
So we've improved technically but not scoring aganst stronger NT's.
Kudos to Duke, I feel he's strong 9 who puts in throws his body on the line BUT our distribution to the box was woeful most times at this level.
So were on top through many phase's of play and can't deliver enough for one of our players to meet the ball and force a save let alone on target.
This is not coachs fault imo but the onus is on the players, conviction/want.

For all the blame GA keeps getting the onus is on the players on the pitch period.

Why as a player your performance so different yet similar to last weeks SA game.
We were far more physical last night yet week before at home we weren't.
I prefer more physicality for it puts pressure on the opponent every single time forcing errors to capitilise on.
Our press is quite lame for I expect GA hasn't the confidence in the squad to cover a counter but the players need to run their own game as well, you know when you have the upper hand or not on the pitch.

Dukes injection for his top goal is the most convicted action from the last 2 games when in attack.
Where is the rest of it ? who lines themselves up for a decent shot from out the box let alone in the box. (you can count the lame shots last 2 games)
The standard of cross's was woeful (whim and prayer stuff) let alone the corners, I see more consistancy at NPL and importantly getting a corner ball to the back.
Thats not tactics but terrible execution at this level.
The players are pretty toothless in the big picture, GA can talk tactics (be it right or wrong to many here) under the sun to his players and select the wrong ones BUT a player also needs to make his own mind up during his game at that split second I'm going hard and I'm going for it........thats what turns alot of games around.
Hardly anyone does, we lack a consistant leader - who's barking on the park to his fellow players, I don't see alot of emotion.

Maybe thats all we've got as some have mentioned whilst the other NT's have improved.
Many here maybe don't want to accept our ambition far out weighs our talent.
Oh were meant to beat China for we routed them 3zip last time, no it doesn't work that way always.
They picked up their game obviously after the pen, when are we gonna see that from our own no matter Behich and others should be off and such and such on.

Have not seen an Ante Jukic write up on this match, but I've seen previous game write ups.

Data and patterns of play are useful in  formulating game plans. The better Asian teams are devising them successfully against us. 

A lot of good points made here, LFC.

It would take a thesis to respond to all of them though!

One moot point you raise is the improving  organisation and structure of our opponents.

I attended a coaching course in about 2013.  There was concern from Football Aus ( FFA then) Tech Dept about how as Asian teams improved these qualities, we would struggle to beat them.  

They have been missed.

Gonna have to try qualify the hard way again, if we can even nab third spot. Been a weird phase of qualifying, I missed the match this morning but generally I don't think we've been that bad. 

REPOST from the ArnieOut thread:

Well that was completely un-expectable, not only we didnt beat a poor China side off a VAR pen but we didnt look like scoring apart from putting 1000 crosses that we put in and 1 worked off which came in the first half.

Let's be honest apart from the lack player quality which we known, we have a manager who at this is tactically inept at this level its clear the teams have now worked us out in how ArnieBall is played and we dropping points but also our performance are regressing which is deeply more worrying.
Its not like Arnie could select Ninkovic, Adrian Majeweski, Bobo and Holosko he has to use Australian passport players instead! 

I think Football Australia have to a make a big call here, do they back him in and hopefully we get there somehow or do they pull the trigger and sack him and appoint a new manager and give him a remit of not only qualifying for the World Cup but also given him enough time to prepare for a new team?

Personally I know I would do but we are in a delicate spot with Oman behind us for that 3rd spot as well so they have to a decision pretty soon given our next game is in January.

And little done within our backyard which is more worrying for us Decentric. 

Good to see you are back.

Somewhere I heard that Arnie is one of the most expensive managers in International Football. If this is correct, we are certainly not getting value for money. Can anyone corroborate this?

Its true its looked liked we have regressed with our players but its more worrying that our performances have regressed which is more alarming.

FA have to make a big call to whether to stick by Arnie and hope we make it make a coach change which might change our course towards Qatar 2022.

But good points mate! 

OMG what a load of crap this is!!! 

really should have thrown the kitchen sink at Carlos Queiroz when he was available. Knows the region very well, a very very experienced coach.

It’s pretty obvious where your starting XI play their club football is a pretty good indicator of the quality of the squad. 

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/socceroos/socceroos-vs-china-fifa-world-cup-2022-qualifiers-afc-scores-results-news-player-ratings-mat-ryan-milos-degenek-ajdin-hrustic-highlights/news-story/b6b1e4c5ea6168a35cf574efca0622a6

https://ultra.zone/2022-FIFA-World-Cup-qualification-AFC-Third-Round#group=b

This thing gets a little more nervy now...

Gonna need to get I'd say 10 points from the last 4 games. Or hope Japan drop points to one of Vietnam or China...

Watched last 20min. Curious about the subs. 

Well intended Behich pass to Maclaren deflected. The following minutes saw Maclaren move a lot and be stalked by his marker. Space existed but everyone seemed to ignore him. 

Hrustic with some space but instead of poking it forward to Boyle he stops and it's knocked out for a throw.

Corner headed away to Grant who puts in a shocking low cross while McGree smartly runs diagonally free where he'd have time to put it across goal. That would've been very interesting to see.

Decent cross by Mabil headed out for corner. Ensuing corner just lofty and keeper fouled.

Nice long pass by Sainsbury down to Karacic with a cross to 3 of our men but Behich heads it downward into defender.

Karacic with another decent enough cross. Gets to Maclaren's feet but two defenders smothering him sees the ball fall away. I wonder what could've happened had someone been standing on the dome. Ensuing play sees long cross caught by keeper with no one going for it. 

Next diagonal ball lands at Ruka's feet where he touches it down then Irvine and Behich both hesitate to get it and an opponent kicks it away. If Irvine puts it flat to Ruka, there's plenty of space to put it across goal with Maclaren surely running into the 5 yard box and Karacic was lingering far and unmarked.

Nice dribble in tight spot by Karacic who puts McGree down the line. Time to cross but passes it back to Irvine who floats it in for a block. While McGree had the ball Maclaren positioned himself well between 3 men and Ruka had one CB very concerned.

By no means are there 100% chances but the situations presented themselves to be used to see something more become of it. Skill level aside there's not enough greed. Too much hesitation. Many Asian teams can't hit the target much but they at least try the direct approach and the ball will do funny things. We play like the Arsenal of old who want to walk the ball into the net. 

In fairness, they also used to rely on brilliant 1 vs 1 runs by Thierry Henry. For the Gunners, it wasn't only team goals. Actually, I think they had the balance right between team and individual.

But they definitely had the personnel capable of outmaneouvring any opponent so that they could walk the ball into the net. Vieira, Pires, Ljungberg, Bergkamp, Henry...

Utterly woeful

Decentric, you like data and statistics don't you?

Sample size is critically-important to data and statistics. You're using a sample size of one match to prop up your argument.

To make any kind of meaningful inference, you need a lot more matches where those guys have performed as well as world class players (leaving aside the fact that Milligan, Risdon and Arzani lost that match).

The event needs to happen again and again and again and again. While I agree with you that clubs can undervalue footballers (e.g. a certain French central midfielder), there are extremely compelling reasons why European football clubs pay $x million for the French guys but why they wouldn't (or won't) sign Milligan, Risdon and Arzani.

And that reason is the consistency with which those French players compete at a world class level. I'm sorry but none of our guys have consistently demonstrated the ability of those players.

Northern Ireland drew with Italy a few days ago. The Northern Ireland players held their own against the European champions.

Does that mean that Whyte, Davis or Flanagan are, overall, at the same level as Jorginho, Chiesa and Bonucci?

No, of course not. Upsets happen. If you get Italy and Northern Ireland to face each other in 30 matches, you'll almost certainly find that the Italian players are streets ahead. And that's why their market value is far higher than the market value of the Northern Irish players (overwhelmingly).

The same if you consider any world class team and Australia.

In fairness, one of the world's richest clubs did sign Arzani. But obviously his relationship with Man City is different to that of someone such as Bernardo Silva, for example.

Oh no I'm referring to Arsenal of about 10 years ago that were incredibly painful for their fans. Your list were a brilliant side.