National second division is kicking off with or without FFA


National second division is kicking off with or without FFA

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RoyalDave
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Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 10:51 AM
numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 10:38 AM

This, very much this......  link to NPLs from the get go...... 
If 12-16 club home and away season plus finals implemented will do wonders for the aspiration nature of football clubs in our country.
For example NPL Vic clubs are already putting their hands up to host WWC23 squads as training venues... Facilities WILL be improved and government grants WILL be obtained if there is a valid case for it.... 
  https://twitter.com/footballvic/status/1496255707917828103?cxt=HHwWjoC-ufGo4sMpAAAA
Wish the Victorian Aleague clubs could offer up the same facilites but ..... meh they have other priorities I guess?

Likewise Floreat Athena currently working with federal funds and the local council to build new club changerooms which will enable them to host WWC23 squad. 
However I don't think Perth Glory have yet put one dollar into football infrastructure over here? Still homeless after 25 years.

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RoyalDave - 23 Feb 2022 11:08 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 10:51 AM

numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 10:38 AM

I may have missed it, but was there any discussion on how future promotion into the NSD would work? 
Would they do it geographically, ie a WA team drops out so they promote the NPLWA champions?
Or a play-off system between all NPL champions who desire/meet criteria to be promoted?

Relegated teams drop into their NPL

Teams who meet pre-qualifying criteria playoff for Promotion

Page 25    6.3 P&R


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RoyalDave - 23 Feb 2022 11:08 AM
Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 10:51 AM

numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 10:38 AM

I may have missed it, but was there any discussion on how future promotion into the NSD would work? 
Would they do it geographically, ie a WA team drops out so they promote the NPLWA champions?
Or a play-off system between all NPL champions who desire/meet criteria to be promoted? Actually this could replace the current 'champions cup' thing we have at the end of the season so don't see an issue there.






AAFC is proposing that the end of year NPL finals series work as the defacto promotion "playoff" to NSD which makes sense to me. They suggest for the first 3 seasons only one club relegation from NSD (to its original member NPL) and then 2 x teams promoted per year which I would imagine would be the two grand final teams in the NPL national finals series... This may get messy with having odd number of teams in both NSD and the state NPL below it that the relegated team goes to so I hope they work on this a bit more. I would prefer (personally) 2 clubs promoted for the first 3 years until 16 clubs in NSD and then 1 up 1 down or 2 up 2 down whichever moving forward.

This would also be the best way to integrate the Aleague franchises into a real competition (rather than trying to get a link between APL set up). Aleague clubs already have NPL squads in the pyramid (although slotted in unfairly over time) and when the APL finally gives up the ghost the transition for the Aleague clubs should be seamless :)
*They may want to organise their stadums to be built first though.... clocks ticking WU. hahahahahahah
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Will these NPL NSD garner new support or continue to get 300 people per game? I don't really see any existing clubs having big support apart from hellas.
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Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 12:12 PM
RoyalDave - 23 Feb 2022 11:08 AM

AAFC is proposing that the end of year NPL finals series work as the defacto promotion "playoff" to NSD which makes sense to me. They suggest for the first 3 seasons only one club relegation from NSD (to its original member NPL) and then 2 x teams promoted per year which I would imagine would be the two grand final teams in the NPL national finals series... This may get messy with having odd number of teams in both NSD and the state NPL below it that the relegated team goes to so I hope they work on this a bit more.[
/quote]

Only messy for the NSD in Season 2 & 4

NPLs that get effected may have an additional Promotion spot available to even up.


Edited
2 Years Ago by numklpkgulftumch
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Does this mean dynamic promotion-relegation? :O

You'll also be low-key rooting for NSD teams from your state to stay up so it doesn't trickle down double relegation spots etc.

Likewise for the NPL promotion playoffs you'll want your state to push up so more promotion spots in the lower leagues - Could be cool!


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TheDjentleman - 23 Feb 2022 1:43 PM
Does this mean dynamic promotion-relegation? :O

You'll also be low-key rooting for NSD teams from your state to stay up so it doesn't trickle down double relegation spots etc.

Likewise for the NPL promotion playoffs you'll want your state to push up so more promotion spots in the lower leagues - Could be cool!

Absolutely.... would benefit State 1 clubs as much as NPL 1..... a true pyramid :)
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thekingmb - 23 Feb 2022 12:23 PM
Will these NPL NSD garner new support or continue to get 300 people per game? I don't really see any existing clubs having big support apart from hellas.

Will never ever know unless they try it.... Sure the old NSL clubs would have a head start but these "other" clubs putting up their hands would have at least the ability to now market themselves on a national stage and appeal a little bit more to their own footballing communities... It will probably never be a tsunami of immense popularity but could be a good organic and true football ecosystem for once in this country... what is there to lose?
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Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 2:00 PM
thekingmb - 23 Feb 2022 12:23 PM

Will never ever know unless they try it.... Sure the old NSL clubs would have a head start but these "other" clubs putting up their hands would have at least the ability to now market themselves on a national stage and appeal a little bit more to their own footballing communities... It will probably never be a tsunami of immense popularity but could be a good organic and true football ecosystem for once in this country... what is there to lose?

The problem is that there is an expectation of a sugar hit right from the start, and that multitudes will flock through the gates the minute the NSD starts. It should be a ten year project, and this would suggest that it should be existing clubs that form the bulk of the teams.
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Footballking55 - 23 Feb 2022 3:01 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 2:00 PM

The problem is that there is an expectation of a sugar hit right from the start, and that multitudes will flock through the gates the minute the NSD starts. It should be a ten year project, and this would suggest that it should be existing clubs that form the bulk of the teams.

There is a graduated plan in place - which I don't doubt will accordingly be adjusted over time - particularly the bit about P/R to A League.
The "other" clubs mentioned already "exist" just haven't been in the NSL before - and some might be better placed (ie cashed up) to join now.
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thekingmb - 23 Feb 2022 12:23 PM
Will these NPL NSD garner new support or continue to get 300 people per game? I don't really see any existing clubs having big support apart from hellas.

Fair question and without putting the chicken before the egg.......

Look at the Clubs throwing the hat in the ring gives you enough idea.
The potential for the ol known NSL Clubs obviously have the best opportunity to grow not just SMH.
Marconi/APIA/SU/SUNS/SO/Wolves/MK to name a few........
New support will come from attracting back many who gave it away and their next gens who many are playing their local football in turn think before going out lets catch up on the NSD game tonight.
Sure there is alot of work to do by the Clubs, all of them they know that.
Like every comp there will be well supported ones - the soso and the strugglers.
Thats sport.
You also got to crawl before you can walk, footballking55 agreed, 10yr plan at least and tweak as things progress.


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Footballking55 - 23 Feb 2022 3:01 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 23 Feb 2022 2:00 PM

The problem is that there is an expectation of a sugar hit right from the start, and that multitudes will flock through the gates the minute the NSD starts. It should be a ten year project, and this would suggest that it should be existing clubs that form the bulk of the teams.


It's a 7 year to Maturity project according to the report

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numklpkgulftumch - 23 Feb 2022 4:51 PM
Footballking55 - 23 Feb 2022 3:01 PM


It's a 7 year to Maturity project according to the report

I can pretty much guarantee that there will not be a sugar hit right from the start, at least not a massive one anyway. Alot of the ex NSL clubs will be panned mercilessly by the plastic franchise aficionados for the low crowds (payback for 17 years I guess) but if it is small and steady and sustainable and as you say has a growth plan in place it will be better than ANYTHING we have ever had. Bigger clubs could expect 5-6K crowds while smaller ones maybe no more than 1-2K --- better than the Isuzu trucks commercial-a-thon I reackon :)
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its no point talking numbers - let it begin and lets see as time goes by.
Besides they'll copy paste whatever you say MSC waiting for the kill lol.....


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so  JJ  & FA   want   some    cup- type   "second  tier "  thingy ,  while   the  AAFC  want   an   actual   proper   NSD  ?
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LFC. - 23 Feb 2022 5:23 PM
its no point talking numbers - let it begin and lets see as time goes by.
Besides they'll copy paste whatever you say MSC waiting for the kill lol.....

Hahahahahah aint that the truth mate...... hahaha you made me laugh..... Just hanging to get this started, Lambert Park  2023,  Round One Feb 18th APIA v South ---- LESS THAN A YEAR TO GO BROTHER ....WOOOOOHOOOOOOO
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Remote Control - 23 Feb 2022 5:40 PM
so  JJ  & FA   want   some    cup- type   "second  tier "  thingy ,  while   the  AAFC  want   an   actual   proper   NSD  ?

JJ wants what the sheikh tells him he wants.. Just like Lowy obeyed his master ...Satan..
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Which teams are likely to be part of the inaugural season? How will that be decided?

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I'd like to see all the premiers in Australia get together and wear hard hats around a construction site and do a Village People routine. 
That would be great. Hey hows the second division going? Anything new, Remote Control do you have any input?
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AyyLeague - 24 Feb 2022 8:00 PM
Which teams are likely to be part of the inaugural season? How will that be decided?

A good question.
There's 30 or so partner clubs yet only 12 will initially get the nod - and it might well be the case that not all of them want to be there at the start as it will be an expensive exercise, especially for clubs that operate on lower budgets - eg WA clubs run on nothing compared to NSW/VIC.
Criteria will be applied against applications and they may well also focus on a geographic spread to get started - so some NSL titans might miss out to allow WA and TAS sides in for example - but that's just a guess. Personally I think its important to grant initial applications from as far and wide as possible to attract the most public interest - it may be a little unfair but we need to give this the best start possible.

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RoyalDave - 24 Feb 2022 9:03 PM
AyyLeague - 24 Feb 2022 8:00 PM

A good question.
There's 30 or so partner clubs yet only 12 will initially get the nod - and it might well be the case that not all of them want to be there at the start as it will be an expensive exercise, especially for clubs that operate on lower budgets - eg WA clubs run on nothing compared to NSW/VIC.
Criteria will be applied against applications and they may well also focus on a geographic spread to get started - so some NSL titans might miss out to allow WA and TAS sides in for example - but that's just a guess. Personally I think its important to grant initial applications from as far and wide as possible to attract the most public interest - it may be a little unfair but we need to give this the best start possible.

This will be the hardest part I think. In VIC alone I would say Knights, Bergers and South would be a no  brainer but then you have Preston, the Georgies, Bulleen  and maybe even Choakleigh with a fairly solid claim for jnclusion
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Monoethnic Social Club - 24 Feb 2022 11:30 PM
RoyalDave - 24 Feb 2022 9:03 PM

This will be the hardest part I think. In VIC alone I would say Knights, Bergers and South would be a no  brainer but then you have Preston, the Georgies, Bulleen  and maybe even Choakleigh with a fairly solid claim for jnclusion

Just pick the 16 (or 12) best bids based on set down criteria. (Solvency top of the list for me.) Anyone else that is still keen after missing out can start in the A3.


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Munrubenmuz - 24 Feb 2022 11:50 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 24 Feb 2022 11:30 PM

Just pick the 16 (or 12) best bids based on set down criteria. (Solvency top of the list for me.) Anyone else that is still keen after missing out can start in the A3.

Its not t that much of a huge deal I agree, the 18 clubs that
 miss out on season one of the NSD, would be busting a gut to get promoted to the NsD in the first season....
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I'm really surprised the new merged & rebranded ECU Joondalup team in WA wasn't part of the 30 clubs. I thought the whole reason behind it was to look capable of being worthy of NSD contention. Especially with their good youth reputation. Maybe they want to work their way in...

Then again, I believe no WA clubs here should be part of the beginning phase (unless we get more mergers) and let the eastern states and maybe 1 SA team stabilise themselves. We should earn it via pyramid playoffs - even if it takes us a generation or two to get our act together lol

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TheDjentleman - 25 Feb 2022 9:08 AM
I'm really surprised the new merged & rebranded ECU Joondalup team in WA wasn't part of the 30 clubs. I thought the whole reason behind it was to look capable of being worthy of NSD contention. Especially with their good youth reputation. Maybe they want to work their way in...

Then again, I believe no WA clubs here should be part of the beginning phase (unless we get more mergers) and let the eastern states and maybe 1 SA team stabilise themselves. We should earn it via pyramid playoffs - even if it takes us a generation or two to get our act together lol

Perth Red Star (the clubs formerly known as ECU Joondalup & Northern Redbacks) have the eventual goal of going national, but having newly merged their first aim is to find a new home. They want to move away from ECU into something purpose built. This will take some time.  Their focus will remain on development as always.

That all said, despite their record of producing players, they've had a lack of success in the NPL so from that front are they really deserving?

Although as previously mentioned, solvency is the big key to getting in initially


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Monoethnic Social Club - 24 Feb 2022 11:30 PM
RoyalDave - 24 Feb 2022 9:03 PM

This will be the hardest part I think. In VIC alone I would say Knights, Bergers and South would be a no  brainer but then you have Preston, the Georgies, Bulleen  and maybe even Choakleigh with a fairly solid claim for jnclusion

I tend to agree that the ex-NSL titans would likely get first preference unless their financial situation, recent performance or reluctance prevents them from taking part.

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RoyalDave - 25 Feb 2022 10:28 AM
TheDjentleman - 25 Feb 2022 9:08 AM

That all said, despite their record of producing players, they've had a lack of success in the NPL so from that front are they really deserving?

I think their relocation is going to be a double-edged sword. They will get a huger but more competitive talent pool to pick from in the central suburbs (and also attract first team stars) but I wish they still were up there representing the north because they have done well with the British & Irish ex-pats settling up in Joondalup-way. Sorrento is going to gain on that front... I am actually so excited to see what unravels in the future.


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AyyLeague - 25 Feb 2022 1:11 PM
Monoethnic Social Club - 24 Feb 2022 11:30 PM

I tend to agree that the ex-NSL titans would likely get first preference unless their financial situation, recent performance or reluctance prevents them from taking part.

Page 39 & 40

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TheDjentleman - 25 Feb 2022 1:47 PM
RoyalDave - 25 Feb 2022 10:28 AM

I think their relocation is going to be a double-edged sword. They will get a huger but more competitive talent pool to pick from in the central suburbs (and also attract first team stars) but I wish they still were up there representing the north because they have done well with the British & Irish ex-pats settling up in Joondalup-way. Sorrento is going to gain on that front... I am actually so excited to see what unravels in the future.

I heard an interview where the name was explained and they intentionally left "Northern" out of it even though they do intend to try and remain based up there.
They want to be a "Perth" team with a "point of difference".
But I agree with you, I think they should represent the Northern suburbs - it's not just the juniors you're trying to attract - bums on seats helps too.
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JJ was interviewed on the Global Game by Brosque and Simon Hill. I recommend listening to it, only a 20 min podcast/segment. But his main points were

* FFA Stance has changed on Div 2 from having no opinion on it to now wanting onw
* Still on track for 2023 start date and that is their aim
*They are employing someone full time to push it forward and speed up the process (he goes into detail what they will do)
* They released the model options to be transparent with the community
* No model has been decided yet as they are trying to see which best suits
*AAFC has been involved in the process
* Undecided if it will be summer or winter, reason being if they go winter they are better connected to grass roots, but summer better connects them to AL

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