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Heart_fan
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The NSL had a lot of baggage, but the A-League is starting to develop its own.
The challenge is that at this point, even with the A-League now in the hands of the APL, FA will still likely need to stump up a fair amount of cash to get this moving, and to ensure there is adequate resourcing to build the foundation.
We know that there are a good amount of clubs that have been involved in the working group, but it will all depend on the model that is chosen that will likely dictate the actual interest. Some clubs are making some more vocal statements than others, but we will wait and see.
We need a NSD, but as with everything, the usual issue is show us the money.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+x+x+x+x+xThanks for this, good to hear a viewpoint from someone who doesn't claim to have all of the answers. One point that stood out is that the NSL died, it wasn't taken away or killed off prematurely. A certain few posters on here seem to forget that. Not sure what you mean. It was wound down by Lowy. He was given a brief (and money) by the Commonwealth government to do whatever he wanted. And he did it. All round, it took over 18 months to complete the job, so that by the time the last ball was kicked in the NSL, the ethnic clubs were told point blank that they were not welcome in whatever was going to replace the NSL. The federal government didn't beg for Lowy to come and help without reason, the NSL had been dead for all intents and purposes for years. The amount of revisionism among bitters here is extraordinary. Whats extraordinary is new dawners bringing up the failures of the NSL as a reason why we shouldnt have a true football pyramid. Just to protect the investment of foreigners in Australian Soccer. I generally ignore bots but here goes... Mono, have you noticed that conversation tone and discourse level of this forum has plummeted, and a majority of the knowledgeable posters have left or rarely post, ever since you began mass spamming threads here? Are you self-aware enough to put that together or even care, I wonder. It's a shame the Admins gave up on this place once it moved to Inside Sport, it was my favourite football community. Nowadays it's no different to TWGF when it was finally put down. Oh Im self aware enough to appreciate that a dissenting opinion is not, despite your childish insults, "spamming". You certainly enjoyed a long period of time getting away with such aggressive anti "effnik sokkah" rhetoric yet are insulted by me disputing the New Dawn's (or are you all now nuevo new dawners, I cant keep up with the plastic jargon?) lies??? Why? Is my little robot spamming self responsible for the dwindling crowds or the dissolving tv audience for your plastic football as well? Grow up and defend your position if you can, its an online forum... Lets see what logic you can use as to WHY a national second tier of soccer in this country will not benefit the whole of the sport....... Stop calling it Soccer FFS. You talk about Australia and America and their exclusive closed leagues , saying soccer is on a par with these closed leagues as you call them. Just words pal.... you can get hung up on what the game is called all you like. I couldn't give a shit what the media or the plastics call it... There's a round ball and the match goes for 90 mins...,,, everything else is semantics..... Plus it really annoys the "I loved football all my life but couldn't connect to the NSL because they where immigrants.... I love new football now" crowd...., https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SXOWRZlSoiUSo what would you call the ISUZU TRUCKS and the MLS ...... open leagues?
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Arthur
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+xThe NSL had a lot of baggage, but the A-League is starting to develop its own.
The challenge is that at this point, even with the A-League now in the hands of the APL, FA will still likely need to stump up a fair amount of cash to get this moving, and to ensure there is adequate resourcing to build the foundation.
We know that there are a good amount of clubs that have been involved in the working group, but it will all depend on the model that is chosen that will likely dictate the actual interest. Some clubs are making some more vocal statements than others, but we will wait and see.
We need a NSD, but as with everything, the usual issue is show us the money. It will be up to the FA if they "splash" the cash or not. The AAFC proposal is fully funded by the Clubs. What the FA will be providing is the administration and the networks to obtain sponsorship and media coverage. SBS has already expressed its interest in telecasting the NSD, providing a National Broadcast opportunity for Club Sponsorship and Competition Sponsorship. Its not so much about the money as the WILL to get this up. JJ has already committed to a NSD in 2023, failure to do so will be a failure of implementation, so a failure of leadership, a simple enough proposition.
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Footballking55
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The whole issue with the NSD is that it has to be transparent. There'll be a lot of noses out of joint because there will only be 12 or 16 teams out of a potential 90+ in the first season, and they'll probably want some guarantees about longevity of their role within the competition. So if a team is not selected, there's at least a couple of years gap before they can hop on board. It will get very messy, but hopefully people across the board can see the bigger picture.
I would actually like to see a third division nationally before there is promotion to the A League, and get the mechanisms correct in the tiers below first. If we can bed down NSD in 2023, there will be a number of teams interested, so even set up the third division to run in 2024.
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Gyfox
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+xThe whole issue with the NSD is that it has to be transparent. There'll be a lot of noses out of joint because there will only be 12 or 16 teams out of a potential 90+ in the first season, and they'll probably want some guarantees about longevity of their role within the competition. So if a team is not selected, there's at least a couple of years gap before they can hop on board. It will get very messy, but hopefully people across the board can see the bigger picture. I would actually like to see a third division nationally before there is promotion to the A League, and get the mechanisms correct in the tiers below first. If we can bed down NSD in 2023, there will be a number of teams interested, so even set up the third division to run in 2024. I expect that the NSD will start with 12 clubs and expand to 16 over 3 or 4 years. I also expect that there will be some clubs that try the NSD and find that for them it is not sustainable so they step aside to let others have the opportunity. I also see the need for a third division but I thought I was brave in saying that it should happen within 10 years so your 2024 leaves me way behind :) I expect that the third division will come about when the NSD moves to fully professional and that is when P/R to the A-League should start.
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tomw
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+xI expect that the third division will come about when the NSD moves to fully professional and that is when P/R to the A-League should start. P/R should happen before the NSD is fully pro. Make being fully pro a requirement for promotion if needed, but not having P/R will only delay the clubs from professionalising, since they can't go up anyway.
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jaymz
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+x+xThe whole issue with the NSD is that it has to be transparent. There'll be a lot of noses out of joint because there will only be 12 or 16 teams out of a potential 90+ in the first season, and they'll probably want some guarantees about longevity of their role within the competition. So if a team is not selected, there's at least a couple of years gap before they can hop on board. It will get very messy, but hopefully people across the board can see the bigger picture. I would actually like to see a third division nationally before there is promotion to the A League, and get the mechanisms correct in the tiers below first. If we can bed down NSD in 2023, there will be a number of teams interested, so even set up the third division to run in 2024. I expect that the NSD will start with 12 clubs and expand to 16 over 3 or 4 years. I also expect that there will be some clubs that try the NSD and find that for them it is not sustainable so they step aside to let others have the opportunity. I also see the need for a third division but I thought I was brave in saying that it should happen within 10 years so your 2024 leaves me way behind :) I expect that the third division will come about when the NSD moves to fully professional and that is when P/R to the A-League should start. Third div may be a bridge too far tbh in terms of finances. What you could do however, is make it a requirement to be fully professional for promotion to the 2nd div. That way you would have pockets throughout the country of professional clubs and it may be a way to organically grow the lower division clubs. Once there are enough pro clubs you could then consider making a 3rd div. Bear in mind clubs relegated from Div 2 would already have these structures in place so the more time goes on the more clubs will get a taste.
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LFC.
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Go to page 11 for the planned structures..... 12 Clubs originally from 2023 - 2026 on to 16 Clubs and Womens NSD to start as well. http://www.australianfootballclubs.org.au/uploads/9/8/8/1/9881717/aafc_nsd_final_report__22.02.22_.pdf
Love Football
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Barca4Life
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Just a great article from Joey Lynch in The Guardian about the lack of consequences for doing poorly in the a-league and just reading the amount of comments who fail to understand what the meaning of the article is, the insecurites but also lack of understanding of the idea of needing pro-rel is just shows the levels of mediocrity we have accepted in a very long time.
Just because they dont do it at the NRL or AFL it doesnt make it right we should accept this as well.
For all there talk I genuinely hope the powers at be have aspirations to bring it one day and not fall for the usual insecurities which we have accepted all of this time about it not needing it, after all we are part of a global game whom have accepted it and embraced the challenges of having it and doesnt mean good ol' Australia should not be apart of this conversation just we are 'unique'.
After all its about the football, which we all want it to be successful and need to do what you can to improve it.
Countries around the world whom have improved haven't cut corners like we have done in the last decade or so.
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Arthur
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+xThe whole issue with the NSD is that it has to be transparent. There'll be a lot of noses out of joint because there will only be 12 or 16 teams out of a potential 90+ in the first season, and they'll probably want some guarantees about longevity of their role within the competition. So if a team is not selected, there's at least a couple of years gap before they can hop on board. It will get very messy, but hopefully people across the board can see the bigger picture. I would actually like to see a third division nationally before there is promotion to the A League, and get the mechanisms correct in the tiers below first. If we can bed down NSD in 2023, there will be a number of teams interested, so even set up the third division to run in 2024. According to AAFC report promotion/relegation from the start is the preference. Why? It provides incentive and ambition to the NPL not in the NSD Clubs to scale up. It provides investors (members sponsors government) incentive to contribute more. I would also suggest that P/R won't be automatic as the FA will be introducing a CLub Licencing system that will most likely in the short term limit the number of Clubs that can be promoted to the NSD. Hence the importance of scaling up, with the incentive to do so.
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Arthur
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+x+xThe whole issue with the NSD is that it has to be transparent. There'll be a lot of noses out of joint because there will only be 12 or 16 teams out of a potential 90+ in the first season, and they'll probably want some guarantees about longevity of their role within the competition. So if a team is not selected, there's at least a couple of years gap before they can hop on board. It will get very messy, but hopefully people across the board can see the bigger picture. I would actually like to see a third division nationally before there is promotion to the A League, and get the mechanisms correct in the tiers below first. If we can bed down NSD in 2023, there will be a number of teams interested, so even set up the third division to run in 2024. I expect that the NSD will start with 12 clubs and expand to 16 over 3 or 4 years. I also expect that there will be some clubs that try the NSD and find that for them it is not sustainable so they step aside to let others have the opportunity. I also see the need for a third division but I thought I was brave in saying that it should happen within 10 years so your 2024 leaves me way behind :) I expect that the third division will come about when the NSD moves to fully professional and that is when P/R to the A-League should start. The need for a third division will become apparent when a NSD has been established, that need will be based on how many Clubs can grow. For example if you have 30 clubs capable of being in a 16 team NSD, then its a no brainer to start a NTD.
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Arthur
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+xJust a great article from Joey Lynch in The Guardian about the lack of consequences for doing poorly in the a-league and just reading the amount of comments who fail to understand what the meaning of the article is, the insecurites but also lack of understanding of the idea of needing pro-rel is just shows the levels of mediocrity we have accepted in a very long time. Just because they dont do it at the NRL or AFL it doesnt make it right we should accept this as well. For all there talk I genuinely hope the powers at be have aspirations to bring it one day and not fall for the usual insecurities which we have accepted all of this time about it not needing it, after all we are part of a global game whom have accepted it and embraced the challenges of having it and doesnt mean good ol' Australia should not be apart of this conversation just we are 'unique'. After all its about the football, which we all want it to be successful and need to do what you can to improve it. Countries around the world whom have improved haven't cut corners like we have done in the last decade or so. Nothing new, nice to see it in print media, we've been saying this on this forum for 12 years or more.
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bettega
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There won't be P&R to the A-League.
All the signs are there for anyone looking hard enough.
We have adopted the MLS system, it's pretty much locked in, club owners and equity investors aren't going to move away from that model willingly.
Also, you have to look at the form of key players.
Who was involved in the closed shop super European league idea?
Who is likely to be looking favourably at this super Asian club comp? What's the bet they will try and make that one a closed shop?
This influential club is now part of a closed league in Australia, the chances are nil that they will ever support opening up this league.
The arrangement absolutely suits them down to the ground. They can pick up any good player in Australia for free. They can move that player to any of their clubs anywhere in the world for free, if they strike it lucky, they can make enough on one talented player, enough to fund a few years of losses (in Australia). They just need one player every three years. Why would they want to ditch such an arrangement?
Also, who else has close links to this influential club which now owns one third of the APL?
Just sit back and look at it, the answer to all your questions is staring you in the face.
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libelous
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+xThere won't be P&R to the A-League. All the signs are there for anyone looking hard enough. We have adopted the MLS system, it's pretty much locked in, club owners and equity investors aren't going to move away from that model willingly. Also, you have to look at the form of key players. Who was involved in the closed shop super European league idea? Who is likely to be looking favourably at this super Asian club comp? What's the bet they will try and make that one a closed shop? This influential club is now part of a closed league in Australia, the chances are nil that they will ever support opening up this league. The arrangement absolutely suits them down to the ground. They can pick up any good player in Australia for free. They can move that player to any of their clubs anywhere in the world for free, if they strike it lucky, they can make enough on one talented player, enough to fund a few years of losses (in Australia). They just need one player every three years. Why would they want to ditch such an arrangement? Also, who else has close links to this influential club which now owns one third of the APL? Just sit back and look at it, the answer to all your questions is staring you in the face.
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libelous
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+x+xThere won't be P&R to the A-League. All the signs are there for anyone looking hard enough. We have adopted the MLS system, it's pretty much locked in, club owners and equity investors aren't going to move away from that model willingly. Also, you have to look at the form of key players. Who was involved in the closed shop super European league idea? Who is likely to be looking favourably at this super Asian club comp? What's the bet they will try and make that one a closed shop? This influential club is now part of a closed league in Australia, the chances are nil that they will ever support opening up this league. The arrangement absolutely suits them down to the ground. They can pick up any good player in Australia for free. They can move that player to any of their clubs anywhere in the world for free, if they strike it lucky, they can make enough on one talented player, enough to fund a few years of losses (in Australia). They just need one player every three years. Why would they want to ditch such an arrangement? Also, who else has close links to this influential club which now owns one third of the APL? Just sit back and look at it, the answer to all your questions is staring you in the face. Another post from you with the same old dross, give it a rest. It will be interesting to get your reaction when P/R starts....and it will be here sooner than most people think.
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LFC.
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bettega correct, what "invester" and partners would agree to being punted out of any business you originally paid a over inflated entry fee for one + additional ongoing costs right ? OK maybe,maybe one day there might be some kind of rebate argeed years later but doubt it, I sure wouldn't stand for it in their shoes. I'm afraid the ESL will come up once again in the future, Barca/RM and Juve are the stayers to date - surprised the crowd your not naming was one of the first pulling out at that time. Strategic ? maybe so. I think Pep's influence may have had a hand just a smidge, once he's gone back to it I expect. Same for my EPL crowd sadly. I'll be all IN for the NSD, that comp, my 2 eldest boys comps and mine will be the local focus '23 onwards. As long as LFC stays in the EPL I'm in.
Love Football
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xbettega correct, what "invester" and partners would agree to being punted out of any business you originally paid a over inflated entry fee for one + additional ongoing costs right ? OK maybe,maybe one day there might be some kind of rebate argeed years later but doubt it, I sure wouldn't stand for it in their shoes. I'm afraid the ESL will come up once again in the future, Barca/RM and Juve are the stayers to date - surprised the crowd your not naming was one of the first pulling out at that time. Strategic ? maybe so. I think Pep's influence may have had a hand just a smidge, once he's gone back to it I expect. Same for my EPL crowd sadly. I'll be all IN for the NSD, that comp, my 2 eldest boys comps and mine will be the local focus '23 onwards. As long as LFC stays in the EPL I'm in. Hey LFC, how good were the scenes at Craven Cottage the other day? Can't wait for that to be a reality here soon :) Leave the ISUZU leagues to the "cool kids"
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theFOOTBALLlover
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If the A-league decides not to allow pro/rel but the NSD has pro/rel with the state leagues, I think it will be the nail in the coffins for the A-league. People will be a lot more interested in a league where there's meaning to every game because clubs are fighting for survival.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xIf the A-league decides not to allow pro/rel but the NSD has pro/rel with the state leagues, I think it will be the nail in the coffins for the A-league. People will be a lot more interested in a league where there's meaning to every game because clubs are fighting for survival. No I guess some people will flick between the two but the Aleague "standing alone" might be a good thing for both competitions. Keeps the grubby "effnicks" away from the mainstream multi sport audience and the grass roots football crowd happy with aspiration football and a reason to continue.. win-win.
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Josh
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+xIf the A-league decides not to allow pro/rel but the NSD has pro/rel with the state leagues, I think it will be the nail in the coffins for the A-league. People will be a lot more interested in a league where there's meaning to every game because clubs are fighting for survival. I said this a while back and got shot down. I think the second division could overtake the first in popularity.
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libelous
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Settle down everyone, there won’t be divisions operating on their own.
Once the nitty-gritty is sorted the pyramid will be established probably for the start of the 2024 season.
Seasons will be aligned and finally we move forward.
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Barca4Life
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The DTS to start at NPL level, a welcome move for the sport. The question is when does it come into effect? Hopefully the a-league follows suit sooner rather than later. https://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news/football-australia-remove-cap-professional-player-transfers
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GDeathe
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+x+xIf the A-league decides not to allow pro/rel but the NSD has pro/rel with the state leagues, I think it will be the nail in the coffins for the A-league. People will be a lot more interested in a league where there's meaning to every game because clubs are fighting for survival. No I guess some people will flick between the two but the Aleague "standing alone" might be a good thing for both competitions. Keeps the grubby "effnicks" away from the mainstream multi sport audience and the grass roots football crowd happy with aspiration football and a reason to continue.. win-win. Not only that we can have an all star series between the two
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bettega
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+xSettle down everyone, there won’t be divisions operating on their own. Once the nitty-gritty is sorted the pyramid will be established probably for the start of the 2024 season. Seasons will be aligned and finally we move forward. Were you on this forum 15 years ago when the majority were looking forward to a full pyramid being put into place in the near future. Not sure why you would be so confident that it's about to happen.
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libelous
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+x+xSettle down everyone, there won’t be divisions operating on their own. Once the nitty-gritty is sorted the pyramid will be established probably for the start of the 2024 season. Seasons will be aligned and finally we move forward. Were you on this forum 15 years ago when the majority were looking forward to a full pyramid being put into place in the near future. Not sure why you would be so confident that it's about to happen. I have been in and around football in this country for over 50 years so I have seen the ups and downs that have affected the game for so long. Frank Lowy was never interested in a full pyramid so the 'majority', as you put it, were sadly disillusioned. I am supremely confident that it will now happen because we have those people charged with making it happen who not only have the desire but also the ability to make it happen.
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+x+x+xIf the A-league decides not to allow pro/rel but the NSD has pro/rel with the state leagues, I think it will be the nail in the coffins for the A-league. People will be a lot more interested in a league where there's meaning to every game because clubs are fighting for survival. No I guess some people will flick between the two but the Aleague "standing alone" might be a good thing for both competitions. Keeps the grubby "effnicks" away from the mainstream multi sport audience and the grass roots football crowd happy with aspiration football and a reason to continue.. win-win. Not only that we can have an all star series between the two Hahahah how about a "lack of community" Shield?
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Monoethnic Social Club
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+xSettle down everyone, there won’t be divisions operating on their own. Once the nitty-gritty is sorted the pyramid will be established probably for the start of the 2024 season. Seasons will be aligned and finally we move forward. Don't know how you can be so confident unless you have some insider knowledge.... this would be the dream scenario... As others have said though, can't see the franchise foreign owners sticking around to participate in a league where the value of their shareholders certificate does not guarantee them a share of the first divisions riches..... There is a shitload of nitty-gritty in the way and sadly, because of the McFranchise years, it all revolves around foreign ownership.......
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huddo
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Can't see it happening in the Aleague, how else are the big clubs going to gouge the smaller clubs of their developed players. This will just add another road block to NPL players proceeding to the ALeague, if this exists, and the Aleagues don't come in to the fold, what is the incentive on teams like the Mariners? Pay a shit load of money to an NPL club, then have SFC take him for free once proven what a load of shit. Honestly so close to walking away.
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GDeathe
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+x+x+x+xIf the A-league decides not to allow pro/rel but the NSD has pro/rel with the state leagues, I think it will be the nail in the coffins for the A-league. People will be a lot more interested in a league where there's meaning to every game because clubs are fighting for survival. No I guess some people will flick between the two but the Aleague "standing alone" might be a good thing for both competitions. Keeps the grubby "effnicks" away from the mainstream multi sport audience and the grass roots football crowd happy with aspiration football and a reason to continue.. win-win. Not only that we can have an all star series between the two Hahahah how about a "lack of community" Shield? As a Superbowl like game A-league champion vs National Second-division League (NSL) Champion
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Ds98
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+xCan't see it happening in the Aleague, how else are the big clubs going to gouge the smaller clubs of their developed players. This will just add another road block to NPL players proceeding to the ALeague, if this exists, and the Aleagues don't come in to the fold, what is the incentive on teams like the Mariners? Pay a shit load of money to an NPL club, then have SFC take him for free once proven what a load of shit. Honestly so close to walking away. What are you talking about? This is one of the most positive things to have happened in football recently. This is about forming a stronger system in grassroots football overall. Offering teams an incentive to develop players.
If the mariners do pay a fee to an NPL Club it is their prerogative to offer what they think they are worth. And length of contract would be one of those factors. Even now the mariners can just offer player x a contract for what they think they are worth. That’s not Sydney’s fault. Clubs should be more pro-active in tying down their good/promising players.
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