Anyone have any ideas on how the NSD will interlace with the AL re P/R.

Will the 2034 licenses get in the way before then?

I've always thought the best model might be to plan for NSD promotion to the AL if we can't yet have full P/R. Aim for a 16 team league (in both divisions) with a winter league by 2034 and bob's your mum's brother.

Oh, and that would mean a 30 match league (2 rounds) in both.

tbh stuff the geography, it should just be the 12 best options who meet (and in most cases exceed the criteria). We only get one shot at this, so no point carrying a weak club just because its the only representative of its state. It will just give them an incentive to improve.  If it means only 2 or 3 states are represented then so be it. Better to have a strong league that survives based in a few locations that actually succeeds than one nationwide that fails.  

I will add that geography could be used as a tie breaker between two equal clubs, but that is all it should be used for

Anyone have any ideas on how the NSD will interlace with the AL re P/R.

Will the 2034 licenses get in the way before then?

I've always thought the best model might be to plan for NSD promotion to the AL if we can't yet have full P/R. Aim for a 16 team league (in both divisions) with a winter league by 2034 and bob's your mum's brother.

Fuck 2034, it doesn't mean shit.

It's an APL mind trick

This fallacy needs to get through people's thick heads.

Fuck 2034, it doesn't mean shit.

It's an APL mind trick

This fallacy needs to get through people's thick heads.

As for round robins and CL formats get farked as well.

2 or 3 rounds (depending on number of teams) of home and away. Done.

NO to bidding

You reach the criteria, then the starting 12 are geographically balanced from the qualified applicants as per AAFC proposal

NO to taking any notice of APL bullshit and failing experiments
P&R sets the makeup from then on.

Id be surprised if p and r happen before crowd averages are around 2-3k and nsd teams are full time
not sure how licenses will work

i like the idea of promotion for a couple of years before promotion and relegation

at the moment aafc are planning for p and r maybe a decade away to the a league but instantly to the npl, will be surprised if it happens sooner

incidentally we got rid of p and r in the early 90s and the golden gen emerged from the post p and r era

I think it might be easier to do p and r if there is a second division as a buffer between the first and the state leagues. 

If there is scepticism amongst football fans, it can be divided predominantly into two camps:
1.  those who think it can't work, NSD clubs will go broke trying to be professional, etc. etc.
2.  those who think the APL clubs don't want it and will do everything they can to at least stall it, and/or sabotage future prospects for P&R (like trying to get their reserves teams in there).  I'm definitely in the latter camp.

Do you know what is causing the delays and whether the aafc model has a good chance of getting up?

Great stuff. I don't mind if the start gets pushed back a year if it means they get the model right (and that means a proper round-robin second division, not some Champions League thing). It would also give more time for clubs to get their house in order for bidding for a spot. It will be interesting to see if any new teams emerge to bid for spots. right now I can think of the following regions that don't really have any adequate NPL representation but could well prosper in an NSD:

- Canberra (unified team, potentially backed by the federation)
- Hobart (same)
- Geelong
- Townsville
- Cairns
- Penrith
- Ipswich
- Bendigo
- Ballarat
- Mandurah/Bunbury
- Darwin (distance may be an issue)
- Albury-Wodonga
- NSW north coast (Coffs Harbour etc.)

Of course, it depends what happens with A-League expansion. Potentially the A-League could get, say, Canberra and the Gold Coast in by 23-24, then any two from Hobart, Wollongong and Auckland a couple of years down the track. It would be good to have some coordination there so you don't end up with rival bids or whatever.

The NSD season should just be aligned with the NPL, and pro-rel start immediately. Just have two promotion spots every year, with post-season playoffs between the VIC/WA/SA/TAS and NSW/QLD/NNSW/ACT NPL winners to decide the two spots. Have one relegation spot from the NSD every year until it expands to 16 teams, then increase that to two relegation spots.

Pro-rel with the A-League will probably require the A-League to also switch to winter. This won't happen within the current broadcasting agreement, but it's an inevitability at some point (especially with climate change making summer increasingly unpalatable for top level sport). It could potentially come in around 2028, by which time hopefully both the A-League and the NSD have 16 teams. Then we'd really have a proper football pyramid on our hands.

All I know is there are over four models being proposed. Everything is being tested and negotiated.

yer look lets just get the NSD going first up forget anything re Roo's for now agreed.

That last document I read mentioned a % of Clubs will be able to turn Pro whereas the balance of said 16 Club comp will be semi......
Obviously we all know nothing at this stage how this is going work, maybe its changed behind the scenes as discussions have developed.
Just can't wait to see once all is finally announced.
Arthur may have a good idea but likely cannot let it out of the kit bag at this stage.
Please be a proper H A comp.

Anyone have any ideas on how the NSD will interlace with the AL re P/R.

Will the 2034 licenses get in the way before then?

I've always thought the best model might be to plan for NSD promotion to the AL if we can't yet have full P/R. Aim for a 16 team league (in both divisions) with a winter league by 2034 and bob's your mum's brother.

It will be up to those that have facilities, finances and football IP.
You forgot a team from Perth.
Also you have to consider that in the early years this will require bottom up funding.

That means Clubs will have to stump up any where from $250K a year just to be a part of it.

So too early for wishful thinking

Too early to discuss.
Get the NSD up first and then those questions of P/R to AL will be asked.

Is that $250k+ on top of operating their NSD squad and their NPL(?) and junior commitments.

Yeah, I didn't mean literally bidding like in an auction. I meant establishing a proposal that best meets the criteria. Presumably you will have more applicants than there will be spots available, so you have to determine the best-ranked candidates somehow. Aside from geographical spread I would make it the four Fs:

- football (i.e. on-field performances in the NPL, where this is relevant, as well as strength of junior programmes and the like)
- facilities (stadium and training grounds)
- finances
- fanbase

It has been confirmed again and again that the licenses don't preclude performance-based relegation from being instated. And in the unbundling process between FA and the APL, FA retained decision-making powers on pro-rel and the season calendar. So it's in their hands. Would obviously be difficult to impose it against the will of the APL. But once an NSD is around for a few years, I think the momentum for pro-rel will be unstoppable. It's just you can't put the cart before the horse: you need a viable, stable second division in place first before A-League clubs will be willing to accept the possibility of being relegated to it.

From my point of view, I have no problem if the FA remove state federations.
My issue, and one for the whole game id who votes at AGM's EGM's and for the Board?
My view is it has to be by the Clubs, as it is done in every non-English speaking country.

But what exactly does that mean? Clubs have been kicked out in the past for financial (or other non-football metric) non-performance but not for being crap on teh park. The current licenses are until 2034 and there would be one hell of a court action if the powers that be tried to relegate a club for being consistently crap.

I've spoken to Chris Nikou about exactly this point and he confirmed it. No loss of license before 2034.

Too early to discuss.
Get the NSD up first and then those questions of P/R to AL will be asked.

But then again maybe some AL sides might think being part of an affordable NSD might be a solution for their finances?

But what exactly does that mean? Clubs have been kicked out in the past for financial (or other non-football metric) non-performance but not for being crap on teh park. The current licenses are until 2034 and there would be one hell of a court action if the powers that be tried to relegate a club for being consistently crap.

I've spoken to Chris Nikou about exactly this point and he confirmed it. No loss of license before 2034.

Yeah reddit folk seem in camp one

i mean for the game there are nearly 100 sides in the npl, if 12 of them go broke with a failed nsd the loss to oz football as a whole isnt large. If they succeed, the standard of the national team could improve quite dramatically 

so the risks to australian football seem asymmetric. If the risks are large for the individual clubs its up to them whether that risk is acceptable, and they have put their hand up

as for p and r to the a league. I am a bit conservative myself. But it depends on what happens. If a club gets 4k crowd averages im ok with promotion being available from the start so long as they can committ to a league wage standards

Licensed promotion would be simple. You take the top-placed team(s) from the NSD and ask them a couple of simple questions:

- do you have access to a ground that is suitable for top-flight football next season (capacity, media facilities, dressing rooms, broadcast-quality floodlights, etc.)?
- do you have the necessary financial backing that would allow you to field a professional squad for the next season?

If the answer is yes they get promoted. If the answer is no then either the relegated A-League team is spared or they ask the next best NSD team the same questions.

This is how it works in plenty of league systems around the world, particularly in the step-up from semi-pro to pro divisions.